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His origin was foretold that he would COME from the seed of David.
No one here disagrees with that. This doesn’t negate anything I’ve said, nor the scriptures I have quoted in order to correct you.
t8,
You say that you do not disagree however you say his origin is from being another creature that God had made. You don’t have both. Either he came from being a descendant of David or he came from heaven, or part of him came from heaven and God made him into yet another one of a kind creature.
t8, you haven’t answered my simple question, does a passage change it’s message and meaning if you change WHO the passage is speaking about?
T8…..Scriptures must be understood from the proper “sense” it is given. Jodi gave an example about “the word became flesh”
That scripture never made sense to me be before, because to me a word is not physical, it’s an expression or utterance of throught, nothing physical about a word. So I couldn’t place it properly as being “flesh” so it just didn’t make sense to me. But when she explained it from the proper point of view it made perfect sense. It has nothing to do with Jesus being a physical flesh word himself.
That scripture is saying that God’s “word” came to be fulfilled by God bringing forth, the flesh man Jesus, so by this fact, God’s WORD concerning his son , came to be, it’s the flesh man Jesus. So in that “sense” GOD’S word became flesh, when Jesus came into his own existence, so did God’s word. How do I know she was right, by the Spirit of truth that has been given me AND her. It now makes perfect sense to me.
So all scriptures can’t be taken literal all the time, they must be properly percieved , and applied properly.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
If he came in the flesh, then he came and was in the flesh. And in case this simple point is beyond your understanding, then know he is now back in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos. See that, the cosmos was before his coming in the flesh. Boom! So according to the flesh, we believe he was a decendant of David. We also believe that the Word that was with God came in the flesh. God created all through the Word and through the Son of God.
All I see is harmony with all scripture. You see contradiction and that is why you argue against us who merely quote certain scriptures. That is very telling.
So all scriptures can’t be taken literal all the time, they must be properly percieved , and applied properly.
Lets be real.
You add words to derive your meaning. This is why you get upset when we quote certain scripture because we are adding nothing to it, rather letting scripture itself say what it is saying. If you have a problem with this then you have a problem with the angel who said:
Today in the City of David a Savior has been born to you, who is Christ the Lord.
Because the angel like myself added nothing to these words. He said ‘today’ and ‘is Christ the Lord’ . I say this too and you have a problem.
Conclusion: the problem you have is yours, not mine. I’m not fighting that scripture. I accept it, you do not.
Hi Jodi
You said: Either he came from being a descendant of David or he came from heaven,
Me: He came from Heaven
Jodi the way I see this is Jesus Christ legally was from the seed of David, by the way, which started out as the seed of the women (Eve). He had no biological connection to the seed of man. His birth happened miraculously by His Father, God. Mary’s seed had nothing to do with it.
God bless
t8, you haven’t answered my simple question, does a passage change it’s message and meaning if you change WHO the passage is speaking about?
Sometimes it does. Repententance for example is given to men, but not fallen angels. So repent and be baptized is truly offered to men, but not to Satan, his angels, or the wicked dead.
Hi Jodi
Christ was another Adam — the second or last Adam that the apostle Paul talked about in First Corinthians chapter 15. And though Christ was “made flesh” (a human as we are), He was not descended from our earthly father, Adam. Mary was simply a surrogate mother who supplied the physical nutriments within her womb to develop the “last Adam.” Had this not been the case, then Christ would have to be reckoned a sinner (with Adam’s sin imputed to Him) like all of us are. Christ did not inherit the sin of Adam from Joseph and Mary because Joseph and Mary were not His actual parents. Christ was created a fleshly being directly from God the Father in heaven. I hope this helps. God bless 🙏
Hi Jodi
Paul said: “Through the offense of one, many be dead.” It was not the personal offenses of men that result in their deaths, but the offense of the one person, Adam, that “the many be dead” (Romans 5:15). Paul made a legal case out of Adam’s offence. He imputes judgment for Adam’s sinful act to all men who came after him.
“By the offence of one [Adam]judgment came upon all men to condemnation.” Romans 5:18
As clear as Paul can make it, he said that through the guilt of Adam we all partake in a judgment to condemnation, the judgment of death.
“By one man’s[Adam’s] offence death reigned by one.” Romans 5:17
The judgment of death because of Adam’s sin was imputed to the entire human race.
“For as by one man’s disobedience[Adam’s sin] many were made sinners.” Romans 5:19
God bless
T8…..wrong you add to scriptures you say it says Jesus was born before Abraham, I see no scripture that says that. You PREACH A PREEXISTING Jesus, BUT HAVE NEVER SHOWN A SINGLE SCRIPTURE , that shows any activity of him before he was born on this earth. You say he was born the Christ at berth making him anointed twice, but scripture shows he was only baptized and anointed once with the holy spirit of God at the Jordan river, you believe he was a savior at berth, but fail to show who he saved “at his berth”.
We on the other hand reconize he was born to be the savior, as well as the anointed man of God, we understand the prophesy concerning him, that scripture shows came true , the way and time scripture shows they did. You believe JESUS was a PREXISTENCE being of somekind, but never tell us what kind of preexisting being he was. We ask for proof from scripture but you show none, because there is none given. We say Jesus came into his “EXISTENCE” as a pure human being just like the rest of us. , you say Jesus was “MORPHED” somehow from another past existence, but no proof of such.
Your teachings preach a Jesus different therefore “SEPERATED ” from his brothers and sisters. We Believe he was “EXACTLY” as we are yet without sin, because the father kept him. We believe he was truly another Adam, you believe he came from another existence , but you have no idea what or where that was.
And you have the idosity to say we add to scriptures, THAT’S A JOKE AT BEST.
Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
t8,
“He” that came in the flesh was the Messiah, the promised seed of David. The promised seed of Abraham.
You apply this “he” not according to God’s determined purpose, not according to His words in the OT, that God would visit a Son of Man, anoint him with His Spirit and give him the inheritance of a firstborn son, a Son of Man God gives all authority and rule over. Hence why Acts tells us that the Son of David God MADE the anointed and a master. Hence why we are told that in Jesus all things hold together, as the Son of man is come to save the lost. Everything would be lost without the Son of Man.
Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Psalms 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Pslams 82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the MIGHTY; he judgeth among the gods. 2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. 3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. 4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. 5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
When Jesus received the Spirit at the Jordan he became MIGHTY, he became a god, and with that anointing of power, he was also anointed with wisdom, understanding, knowledge, council and might, being SENT out to DEFEND the POOR, do justice to the afflicted, rid them of the hand of the wicked.
Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased….Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness…14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about…18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath ANOINTED me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath SENT me to heal the brokenhearted to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath SANCTIFIED, and SENT into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
When Jesus died on the cross, he was raised from the dead receiving an anointing above his fellows, being firstborn of the dead given all rule and authority.
Acts 2: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Acts 2: 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, he would RAISE UP CHRIST to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Acts 2: 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath MADE that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Jesus was MADE Christ and master by God, not Jesus was Christ and Master because he was a non flesh one of a kind son becoming flesh. The flesh was anointed and with that anointing he was made a mighty master, a god. The Word of God had promised this and it became true in the flesh of Jesus.
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
The Son that sits on the throne is a mighty man, called a god according to Psalms by the One True God, this is one whose glory is in the fact that HIS FLESH NEVER DECAYED, it was given eternal life. The god, a mighty man according to God’s Spirit, that sits on the throne is David’s son who God had said He would beget on a certain day.
Pslam 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee
Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Jesus was raised from the dead being begotten by God. Flesh not seeing decay but raised born of the fullness of God’s Spirit and life. This is NOT according to a non flesh one of a kind son of God going back to his former glory, this is according to a promise God gave mankind in the beginning before the foundation of the world, a promise God gave to David concerning David’s son.
exactly why Paul tells us,
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, ACCORDING to the Spirit of holiness, BY the resurrection from the dead:Exactly why Paul says here,therefore god, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.There is NOTHING about Jesus folks that makes Jesus an only begotten Son because he pre-existed as a non flesh one of a kind son. He existed as the only begotten Son because he was a Son of Man that was BORN of God’s Spirit. We too must be BORN of God’s Spirit to enter the kingdom. We believe in the Son of Man, as the Christ not because he pre-existed as a non flesh one of a kind son of God, but because he as a MAN was BORN of God. When we have that faith and recognize that is how we received the forgiveness of our sins through a man made perfect having been born of God, we too are promised to be born of God, where we too will no longer be able to sin.
Hi Jodi
David said, “In sin did my mother conceive me”(Psalm 51:5). David was not saying his conception was a result of an adulterous union. Not at all. David simply meant he was conceived as a fleshly human being. And what is the spiritual condition of human flesh? Paul spoke of it as “sinful flesh”(Romans 8:3). He shows that they who “are in the flesh cannot please God” (Romans 8:8) because in flesh “dwells no good thing” (Romans 7:18).
One point must be understood about the conception of Christ. When the Father caused His conception to occur in the womb of Mary: (John 1:14),14 And the Word became flesh, and [a]dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of [b]the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. It was not Mary’s physical ovum that was engendered to cause Christ to become “flesh.” Christ became the seed of Mary (the woman of prophecy) by means of a heavenly-created ovum placed in Mary’s womb, which was then impregnated by the Spirit. Everything about Christ’s conception was spiritual and had nothing to do with the uniting of a human sperm with a human ovum.
The ovum impregnated by the Spirit was not from Mary’s ovum. Mary was actually a surrogate mother to Christ Jesus and neither her ovum nor Joseph’s sperm created Him. The fetus that grew in Mary’s womb was NOT a descendant of Adam and Eve (it would have inherited sin), but from a sinless God in heaven.
Likewise, that fetus of Jesus was sinless, as God in heaven is sinless. The fetus of itself was NOT YET Christ Jesus bearing the sins of the world because that fetus did NOT have sins on it. But as soon as that fetus became a living human being at its birth, a“living soul” breathing air into its lungs, that baby then had all the sins of the world placed on His back.
This means that Christ did not inherit any of Adam’s sins, but He came directly from heaven; the sperm and ovum that created Christ were heavenly in origin, not from Adam or Eve or Joseph or Mary. True, as surrogate parents, Christ was legally Joseph’s and Mary’s son (as far as the world was concerned and as far as prophetic matters require), but His origin was totally heavenly. He came from heaven where He had been for the previous eons reigning with the Father.(Philippians 2:6–11).6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be [a]grasped,7 but [b]emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death [c]on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. The fact that Christ was considered Joseph’s and Mary’s child (or being David’s progeny) was a legal recognition by God. However, even God’s legal acceptance is a true recognition of Christ’s descent from David.
Jodi I think you should look into what I’m saying.
God bless
T8…..wrong you add to scriptures you say it says Jesus was born before Abraham, I see no scripture that says that. You PREACH A PREEXISTING Jesus, BUT HAVE NEVER SHOWN A SINGLE SCRIPTURE , that shows any activity of him before he was born on this earth. You say he was born the Christ at berth making him anointed twice, but scripture shows he was only baptized and anointed once with the holy spirit of God at the Jordan river, you believe he was a savior at berth, but fail to show who he saved “at his berth”.
lol. Gene, when will you get something right?
Show me where I have said Jesus was born before Abraham?
What I show is scripture and if the scripture says anything about the son of God or Word being before Abraham, then yes you would think I said that because I said the scripture itself or at least endorsed the scripture. Ironic isn’t it. That you accuse me of saying something when I use scripture. lol. The conclusion is you have a problem with scripture.
The spirit of error is strong with some people. Do you really want to be a regular member of that club?
Hi Anthony,
Jesus the Son of Man who was anointed with God’s Spirit being born of God’s Spirit and SENT out according to God’s will and purpose, he came from heaven in that manner. You ever wonder why the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of heaven are both said, but mean exactly the same thing?
When a Son of Man is said to come from heaven or have been sent from heaven that means the SAME THING as saying SENT from or CAME from God. Jesus had said to those who had also received gifts of the Spirit, of course not to the FULL measure that Jesus the promised Messiah received, that they were not of this world as he was not of this world. They were of heaven or rather of God through the works and deeds that they had done through God and according to His will. The bread of life that came from heaven was the flesh of Jesus made perfect through God’s Spirit.
You make the Christ into coming down from heaven as a non flesh one of a kind son turning into a human, my Christ is the Son of Man as was promised long ago to come of the seed of Abraham and David, to be anointed with the Spirit of God, God’s Spirit coming down like a dove resting upon Jesus of Nazareth, making him into a might man, a god, then he is SENT out into the world where God did His work through him, thus when his fame grew it was not because of himself but because he had been sent from heaven, meaning sent from God. The bread of life was the FLESH of Jesus as Jesus directly tells us. He had the flesh of a Son of man that had been the only flesh to become an only begotten Son, having been CALLED into righteousness and made perfect to become our source for redemption.
This is exactly why we are told that,
Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
The glory that the people beheld was the glory of a Son of Man that had been born of God’s Spirit, having grace and truth that the people witnessed because Jesus of Nazareth had been anointed with the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Knowledge, Council and Might.
Anthony why is it that the people said concerning Jesus that they beheld the glory of the “only begotten of the Father” when speaking about his grace and truth they had witnessed? They really “beheld the glory” of a non flesh only begotten one of a kind son of God who EMPTIED himself of his glory and was waiting to get it back???????????????????????????????
Hi Anthony,
NO!! Your invention of the birth of Jesus and applying it to John 1 is false.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased….Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness…14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about...18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath ANOINTED me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath SENT me to heal the brokenhearted to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
THIS is the GLORY that the people beheld, Jesus BEING FULL of the Spirit upon his baptism where the Spirit of God descended like a dove upon him. He had been begotten of God’s Spirit.
The glory they beheld was of a man having been born of God’s Spirit, the only begotten of the Father, the Son of Man given authority to forgive sins and heal, able to raise the dead even.
Stick to scripture and the laws of God’s creation. The virgin birth according to Isaiah was for a sign to the house of David, that God does keep his promises the promises He gave to Abraham and David concerning their descendant. Jesus was of the genes of Abraham and David, all the way to JOSEPH directly according to Matthew. To be a human means that you have a male gamete combined with a female gamete, through the power of God’s Spirit Mary conceived a Son of David by the genes of Joseph.
Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. 2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;..15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; 16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations;Matthew 1:20 While he was thinking about this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, DESCENDANT of David, do not be afraid to take Mary to be your wife. For it is by the Holy Spirit that she has conceived.Matthew 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.till —hou, whereshe– heos, till, untilher- – autos, himself, herself, themselves, itself…. him 1947, them 1148, her 195,SAYS “him” but it is translated many times as HIS, even in this very chapter autos is used as HIS.She brought forth HIS or rather THEIR firstborn son, as obvious since Matthew just told us that Jesus was of the genealogy of David THROUGH the BLOOD of Joseph, by the power of God’s Spirit, fulfilling God’s promise to the house of David of a virgin birth that God gave as a sign so that the house of David would know that God keeps His promises. God’s word thus fulfilled through the virgin birth being of the seed of David. Then God’s word is fulfilled by God taking this seed of Abraham and David and begetting him with His Spirit ” Thou art my beloved Son” being said by God as soon as the Spirit had descended upon him like a dove. Then upon his anointing, of which Jesus calls it just that, he is sent out into the world where fame spreads about him as people witness the glory of the only begotten of the Father filled with grace and truth.Anthony,
Jesus was of the first Adam and upon being made perfect and resurrected from the dead he became the second Adam, the heavenly HUMAN, no longer with weak flesh having to overcome temptation but freed from that bondage. He was born under the LAW, born into temptation and DEATH. He was sown in weakness like all men, sown incorruptible able to die like all men, but he was the firstborn raised from the dead in power with God giving him life before his flesh was allowed to decay from his death. As Jesus was raised from the dead becoming the second Adam, we too shall no more be of the first Adam but be made as the second. As Paul said Jesus returns and we are made perfect also, and we will see Jesus as he is because we will be as he is. Is there some glory that I once was as Jesus was that I return to too? Or is it that my glory I am to receive is that which Jesus received because he is truly the firstborn of the dead of many brethren?
You say that you do not disagree however you say his origin is from being another creature that God had made.
Nope. Never said that.
Jesus was of the first Adam and upon being made perfect and resurrected from the dead he became the second Adam, the heavenly HUMAN, no longer with weak flesh having to overcome temptation but freed from that bondage.
Oh boy. That’s a huge fail Jodi.
as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
All means all Jodi. Your statement is wrong on so many levels because you have to once again add words. In this case you need to add ‘all except one’ .
It also means that a man born into sinful flesh was actually able to overcome sin by works and not only not sin, but never sin. This is false teaching of the highest order Jodi.
Do you also teach falsely as Nick does by having a rule that states Jesus is never the Christ and only Jesus Christ is the Christ. When Nick sees Jesus without Christ, he sees a man like him in every way, except Jesus had a better CV than Nick, maybe slightly better.
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