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Hi there, I’ve noticed your comments in the forum, especially the ones where you explain how you understand Scripture from a Jehovah’s Witness perspective. If you’re open to it, I’d like to have a one‑on‑one discussion with you — not an argument, but a focused conversation where we can each explain our beliefs directly and clearly.
I’m especially interested in hearing how you understand the identity of Jesus, the nature of the New Covenant, and the role of the Messiah in the last days. I’m happy to share my own views as well, but I’d like to begin by hearing how you see these things in Scripture.
If you’re willing, let’s talk.
Lightenup (LU)
Hoping to discuss your JW beliefs here.
@Keith
Hi Keith, thanks for joining me over here. Could you tell me a little about yourself like when you became a JW and anything you would like me to know about you? Do you live in the States?Hi Lightenup. I live in NY state, The JW,s knocked on my parents door in 1961. I was 4 then. Where are you from? I like the 3 g,s–God, golf, guitar.
One of my sons lives in NY also. I’m in TN, in the Bible Belt of America. 🙂
So you have been a JW basically all your life. Do JW’s say that they are Christians? Do you know where in the Bible it is written where God the Father identifies Jesus as Jehovah?
Lightenup– Yes JW,s are Christian. Psalm 110:1 assures Jesus is not Jehovah– Jehovah( LORD) said to my Lord( Jesus), sit at my right hand until i make your enemies as a stool for your feet.
How do you define “Christians?”
Jehovah the Father—the One speaking to David’s Lord in Psalm 110:1—identifies His Son in Hebrews 1 with the Jehovah described in Psalm 102.
Psalm 110:1 shows Jehovah (the Father) speaking to someone distinct: “my Lord.”
Psalm 102 describes Jehovah as the eternal, unchanging Creator of heaven and earth.
Hebrews 1 quotes Psalm 102 and applies it directly to the Son—while the speaker is still the Father.
So my question:
Why does the Father identify His Son with the very Jehovah who created the heavens and the earth?
Lightenup– Psalm 110:-Jehovah said to my Lord(Jesus) sit at my( not ours) right hand. Thus you are twisting heb 1– Heb 1:4–Jesus inherited that name( Jesus, given to him by God) it made him better than the angels. If he didnt come to Earth, then it means he was equal to the angels( created)–Psalm 45:7-companions=angels.
I can tell that I was not clear enough with my post. I want to you look at Heb 1:10-14 and Psalm 102:25-28.
In Hebrews 1:10-12 we see that the Father is speaking about the Son when the Father says:
Hebrews 1:10 And:
“In the beginning, O Lord, You laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of Your hands. 11They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment. 12You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed; but You remain the same, and Your years will never end.”
In Psalm 102 we read this:
25In the beginning You laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands. 26They will perish, but You remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing You will change them, and they will be passed on. 27But You remain the same, and Your years will never end.
Do you see that the Father is quoting Psalm 102 in Hebrews 1:10-12? Can you tell me who is the “You” in Hebrews 1:10 and who is the “You” in Psalm 102:25?
Lighten up, I don’t need to relook. I showed you facts, you show the opposite of facts. Its why trinity based religions are such a mass of confusion, your translation is erred and altered by Catholicism translating. Like at John 1:1-There are only 2 spots in NT where more than 1 is called God and god-John 1:1-2Cor 4:4–The Word was NOT given the same Greek word as the true God is given at both spots=God, both the Word and satan are given the same Greek word=god. Its the reason why different words are given to both at both spots. Yet every translation has god for that word at 2 Cor 4:4, and it belongs at John 1:1 as well. Billions have been mislead by that translating error. Other translations in history by unbias Greek scholars has a god at John 1:1
You are bringing up John 1:1 and 2 Corinthians 4:4, but those points don’t answer the specific question I asked you. That’s a discussion for another time.
Let’s stay with the passage I quoted, because it is the Father speaking, and the wording is identical to Psalm 102.
Hebrews 1:8 says clearly: “But about the Son He says…”
Then the Father continues speaking in vv. 10–12 and quotes Psalm 102:25–27 word for word.
Psalm 102 is addressed to Jehovah.
So my question remains:
1. In Hebrews 1:10, when the Father says to the Son, “You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth…”, who is the “You”?
2. In Psalm 102:25, “Of old You laid the foundation of the earth…”, who is the “You”?
These are the same words. The speaker is the Father. The recipient in Hebrews is the Son. The recipient in Psalm 102 is Jehovah.
I’m not asking about John 1:1 right now. I’m asking you to answer these two very simple questions from Hebrews 1 and Psalm 102 according to the NASB1995 translation.
Lighten up–Jehovah is mentioned in Psalm. When one applys bible facts, it can be said for both.
Most think the us at Gen 1:26 created, but verse 27 is clear only a he created, prov 8:27-28 backs it up-a he created, not the us. The us= Jehovah( architect, creator) and his master worker( Jesus( builder, not creator)Prov 8:30= The one who was beside God during creation, the one whom God grew especially fond of= The firstborn of all creation( Jesus) Col 1:15-16)–Prov 8:22, the Hebrew word possessed means created. Gods master worker( Jesus) telling all he was created. Making him the firstborn of all creation. All other things created through him.
Thank you — you said the “You” in both Psalm 102 and Hebrews 1:10 is Jehovah.
So according to your own answer:
– The “You” in Psalm 102 = Jehovah
– The “You” in Hebrews 1:10 = Jehovah
– Hebrews 1:10 is spoken to the SonTherefore the Father identifies the Son as Jehovah.
This is exactly the point I’ve been asking you to consider.
What you don’t seem to understand yet is that Jehovah is both God and Lord, Father and Son.
Jehovah is the name of their unity as well as each member of the unity, the Father, the Son as well as their Holy Spirit.The Son cannot be the Firstborn of God the Father AND the first created. To be the literal Firstborn, He would have to exist beforehand in order to be born/brought forth. Therefore possessed and brought forth as the Firstborn cannot mean created.
I understand a literal son of God the Father. That type of son would be the only kind to be the exact representation of the Father’s eternal nature as well as an only begotten son.
The Unity, named Jehovah, takes a single pronoun such as “He” similar to any other unity which will take a single pronoun, either he, she, or it. The Bride of Christ is an example. The “Bride” is not just one person but many members and takes the singular pronoun “she/her.”
When the pronoun is plural as in Gen 1:26, “us”, that would be one member talking to the other member within the Unity. In verse 27, it wouldn’t say then “gods” made man because the Father and Son are together as one God…two persons acting as one in their own unique way. One gives the vision, the other carries out the vision. Together they create, not separately but together.
Lightenup–I said psalm 102 was Jehovah. No Jehovah is not the son. Jehovah is the sons God( John 20:17)
Which “theos” was given all authority in heaven and on earth after the resurrection of Christ?
Lightenup– At John 1:1 the true God is called Ho Theos=The God–The Word is called Theos=god in that scenario as it occurs at 2 Cor 4:4 as well- So The true God=Jehovah gave Jesus(Word) authority. If Jesus were God he would already have had the authority.
Are you claiming that Jesus — the theos who now has all authority in heaven and on earth — is a false god?
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