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Hi t8,
YOU:And the Son of God.
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
Me: And the Son of God is David’s SEED who God made an OATH to, gave His WORD that He would beget him on a certain day. And the Son of God is the offspring of David but God’s Son according to the Holy Spirit Romans 1.
Hi T8,
The Son of God is the Son of Man that sits at God’s right hand. The resurrected man that had been made perfect who according to the flesh of David has an eternal throne, is the image of God.
Hi t8,
Give me one scripture that says that I have to believe that Jesus pre-existed in order to have eternal life?
Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
53 Then Jesus said unto them,Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Who am I to believe has dominion over the works of God’s hands t8?
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?..6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Who has the power to forgive my sins?
Matthew 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins,
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying,Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
23 And Jesus answered them, saying,The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
HMM t8 God’s word was eternal life before the world was for MAN, it is a Son of man that was raised from the dead, the glory he received was this word of God, eternal life to a MAN. NOT receiving glory he had before but the glory that the Son of Man had that was WITH GOD BEFORE.
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them,Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him,Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Who is our judge, who is our redeemer, who is returning to earth as King of kings? The Son of MAN is. The root and offspring of David just as GOD’S WORD had promised to David, and to Abraham, that had been WITH God long before, even before the world was.
There is NO scripture that says I must believe Jesus pre-existed, nor is there a single scripture that says I am to believe in the Son of Man because he pre-existed. I am to believe that God called a Son of Man to righteousness through His Spirit and perfected him through His Spirit making him our source for eternal life.
Hi Anthony,
John 17:24 “Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
WHO is speaking? The SON OF MAN is!! God loved the Son of Man before the foundation of the world. He created the world through and for the firstborn of the dead, the Son of Man He would give dominion to over the works of HIS hands.
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them,Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying,Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
23 And Jesus answered them, saying,The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles…8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another,
The Son of Man is raised from the dead, NOT the Son of man goes back to being a non flesh one of a kind son of God, he becomes the FIRSTBORN of the DEAD. This is the glory that Jesus received, and thus Jesus is God’s WORD because God had told David that He would make his son into His own firstborn Son, and Jesus became that WORD. He didn’t exist before giving that word to Isaiah for God, with him speaking of his future self.
Our hope is that as God raised the Son of Man Jesus from the dead that we too will be raised from the dead as he was.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.Jesus doesn’t go back to something he BECOMES something, God’s firstborn human Son of eternal life. Just as God promised David, just as God’s word that had been with God from the beginning.Hi Anthony,
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Galatians 3: 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. …16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
The Gospel of God,
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying,I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them,When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her,I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Mark 14:61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Colossians 1:18 (CEB) He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the one who is firstborn from among the dead so that he might occupy the first place in everything.
Anthony, Abraham was known as the great patriarch, head, before all, of the family tribe, Abraham though rejoiced to see the day of his seed supersede him, be before him, be head over him as the firstborn of the dead. Those who Jesus were speaking to had no clue what Jesus was talking about, hence why Jesus calls them at times blind, foolish, hypocrites. They had no understanding to God’s promise through Abraham’s seed that Abraham rejoiced in.
Before Abraham was, I AM… I AM the resurrection
It doesn’t say, Before Abraham was, I was.
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
Before Abraham was, I AM,
I AM of the tribe of Judah who will be a ruler in Israel and my coming forth has been from the days of everlasting, from before God made the world.
……He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Jody,
Reflect, In the above, God made a reference to Jesus Christ, THE WORD MADE FLESH, in the words:
AND TO YOUR SEED. Which is clear enough that Abraham SEED contained “THE WORD” Jesus to be, the Son of Man, the eternal life SOURCE, which is engrafted in ALL CREATURES’ HEART.The fact that God created ALL IN HIM, ALL BY HIM, and ALL FOR HIM, and all is sustained by Him.
Before Abraham was, I AM… I AM the resurrection
It doesn’t say, Before Abraham was, I was.
In the above statement, Jesus referred to Himself not ONLY as a man, but as a divine, ETERNAL, and He as eternal cannot use the past but always present. God is not a past or a future, but always PRESENT.
The present-tense Christ. He never says, “I was.”
At the same time, Jesus talked to people, AS A SPIRIT, THE WORD OF GOD, HE WAS IN THEIR HEARTS. THE LIFE SOURCE, SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD. REV.13:8
John6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The WORDS that I have spoken to you,
ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE.
THUS, the problem is in the was YOU EXPECT TO JUSTIFY YOUR POINT WITH. Jesus hasn’t stopped being God. In fact, Jesus never started being God—he’s always been. “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever”
Now reflect on Hebrews:
Hebrews 1:10 And: Thou in the beginning, O Lord, didst found the earth: (JESUS FOUNDED THE EARTH, AND HE WAS ALSO LORD)
and the works of thy hands are the heavens. (THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF JESUS’HANDS, obvious as an infinitesimal spirit engrafted in all creatures’ Heart, the eternal life source of all)
11 They shall perish, but thou shalt continue:
( JESUS CONTINUES, as clear as crystal: He existed eternally in the bosom of the Father, and continues for eternity, IRRESPECTIVE of what state He is and what He does. While Jesus was dead in the grave, HE WAS IN HELL PREACHING THE GOSPEL AS MAN, and HE WAS ALSO AS A SPIRIT JUSTIFIED AS THE SOLE SOVEREIGN SPIRIT in the entire process of the world, and IN ALL SOULS, hence THE WORLD WAS MORE THAN SAVED )
and they shall all grow old as a garment.12 And as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
but thou art the selfsame,
( SELF SAME, DIVINE, SPIRIT, ETERNAL) and thy years shall not fail.
( Jesus founded the earth, millions of years ago, SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD. REV. 13:8, NEVERTHELESS, HE “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man, IS THE SOURCE, IS IN ALL, REMAINS IN ALL, till the end of times, BUT HIS YEARS IN THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF CREATION, MAKE NO DIFFERENCE. DON’T AFFECT HIM!
Thou Jesus was born as a man on earth, HE WAS A SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN, and DIVINE ON EARTH. Well asserted in
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,
THE SON OF MAN WHO IS IN HEAVEN.
Jesus’ flesh body had the faculty to perform all the divine attributes ON EARTH, simply to manifest to Satan that HE IS THE PROPRIETOR OF THE HUMAN BODY ON EARTH. Something which Satan took it for granted that, through sin, he became the proprietor of the world, HE WAS LIKE THE MOST HIGH.
Jesus transformed Himself into an embodiment of LIGHT on Mount Tabor. He dissolved His body when they grabbed Him, carried Him all the way out of the city, and at the moment they were to throw Him over, HE FROM THEIR GRIP, SIMPLY WENT HIS WAY! They simply could not get hold of His body.
Luke 4:30 But he passing through the midst of them, went his way.
Are you still with the mentality that Jesus as a spirit never preexisted? When Jesus Himself declared that HE, THE SON OF MAN IS IN HEAVEN, and at the same time HE IS ON EARTH! In the same way, HE IS NOW, BOTH IN THE PROCESS OF CREATION AND IN ALL HUMANS NO MATTER WHO. Also in
1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man was of the earth, earthly:
the second man, FROM HEAVEN, HEAVENLY!
Peace and Love in Jesus Christ.
Hi Carmel:
Young’s Literal Translation
John 8:56 Abraham, your father, was glad that he might see my day; and he saw, and did REJOICE.‘…58 Jesus said to them, ‘Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham’s coming (me: resurrection) — I am;’
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promise (1860. epaggelia promise, not promises), but having (782 GREETED) afar off, and were persuaded of ____, and embraced_____ and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth…39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise 1860. epaggelia): 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/hebrews/11-13.htmMe: All the saints and prophets of the OT greeted and rejoiced to the promise of eternal life afar off through the coming Messiah. Before Abraham’s resurrection from the dead, the Messiah exists as he was speaking. Then after he was resurrected from the dead and glorified in heaven before Pentecost, Abraham would raise from the dead.
Young’s Literal Translation
John 8:28 Jesus said to them, ‘Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham’s coming — I am;’
(Lexicon) Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham (1096:to come into being), I AM.”https://biblehub.com/lexicon/john/8-58.htm
1096 to come into being, to happen, to becomeMe: It says that Abraham will resurrect from the dead because the Messiah exists now before him.
1 Cor 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Hi Carmel,
You: In the above statement, Jesus referred to Himself not ONLY as a man, but as a divine, ETERNAL, and He as eternal cannot use the past but always present. God is not a past or a future, but always PRESENT.
The present-tense Christ. He never says, “I was.”Me:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (spirit of God), and the Word was with God (mind of God), and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I AM Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, WHICH IS, and which WAS, and WHICH IS TO COME, the Almighty.
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Alpha-And-Omega
Me: I believe that in infinite time, the past, present and future are one. In finite time there is a straight line continuum.
Hi Carmel,
You: At the same time, Jesus talked to people, AS A SPIRIT, THE WORD OF GOD, HE WAS IN THEIR HEARTS. THE LIFE SOURCE, SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD. REV.13:8.
Me:
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Me: The Messiah was in his Father’s heart or bosom before he or we existed. The Word was and is the spirit of God. The Word bonded to the fleshly mind and body of the Messiah in John 1:14 from Yasha’s conception.
You: ( Jesus founded the earth, millions of years ago, SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD. REV. 13:8, NEVERTHELESS, HE “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man, IS THE SOURCE, IS IN ALL, REMAINS IN ALL, till the end of times, BUT HIS YEARS IN THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF CREATION, MAKE NO DIFFERENCE. DON’T AFFECT HIM!
Thou Jesus was born as a man on earth, HE WAS A SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN, and DIVINE ON EARTH. Well asserted in
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,
THE SON OF MAN WHO IS IN HEAVEN.Me: Jesus was the Son of God of man on earth. He became the born from the dead Son of God of man after his resurrection from the dead and ascension into heaven where he was glorified.
Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Me: The son of God was slain before the foundation of the cosmos.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven…
Me: He also had ascended into heaven before the foundations of the earth.
John 3:13 … even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.Me: who was glorified before creation.
Romans 4:17…God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Me: The crucifixion, the resurrection and ascension, and the glorification of the Messiah was as if it had already happened before it actually did in the mind of God.
Hi Carmel,
You: John6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The WORDS that I have spoken to y
ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE.
THUS, the problem is in the was YOU EXPECT TO JUSTIFY YOUR POINT WITH. Jesus hasn’t stopped being God. In fact, Jesus never started being God—he’s always been. “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever”
Now reflect on Hebrews:
Hebrews 1:10 And: Thou in the beginning, O Lord, didst found the earth: (JESUS FOUNDED THE EARTH, AND HE WAS ALSO LORD)
and the works of thy hands are the heavens. (THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF JESUS’HANDS, obvious as an infinitesimal spirit engrafted in all creatures’ Heart, the eternal life source of all)Me:
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me…
Psalm 104:30 Thou (mind of God) sendest forth thy spirit, they are created:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by (846. autos it); and without ( 846. autos it)was not any thing made that was made.
Me: The word in John 1:3 is the spirit of God in Job 33:4 and Psalm 104:30—not she or him but it.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Me: The invisible spirit or word of God from the mind of God created all.
You: 11 They shall perish, but thou shalt continue:
( JESUS CONTINUES, as clear as crystal: He existed eternally in the bosom of the Father, and continues for eternity, IRRESPECTIVE of what state He is and what He does. While Jesus was dead in the grave, HE WAS IN HELL PREACHING THE GOSPEL AS MAN, and HE WAS ALSO AS A SPIRIT JUSTIFIED AS THE SOLE SOVEREIGN SPIRIT in the entire process of the world, and IN ALL SOULS, hence THE WORLD WAS MORE THAN SAVED )
and they shall all grow old as a garment.12 And as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:
but thou art the selfsame,
( SELF SAME, DIVINE, SPIRIT, ETERNAL) and thy years shall not fail.Me
1:8 But (the Father) unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord (the Father) , in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. 13 But to which of the angels said he (the Father) at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Me: It is obvious that he in verse 13 is the Father that spoke to the son. Now back up to verse 10. There is no change in person between the two verses. It is the Father that created everything for the son to inherit. The Father does not change. But the son of God did change. He grew from an infant unto a man. The Word or spirit in him bonded stronger with his humanity as time went by and he grew in the spirit. It cannot be that Jesus changed from a glorified being into an infant and then back into the same being.
Mal 3:6 For I am YHWH, I change not;….
Hi Carmel,
You: Jesus’ flesh body had the faculty to perform all the divine attributes ON EARTH, simply to manifest to Satan that HE IS THE PROPRIETOR OF THE HUMAN BODY ON EARTH. Something which Satan took it for granted that, through sin, he became the proprietor of the world, HE WAS LIKE THE MOST HIGH.
Jesus transformed Himself into an embodiment of LIGHT on Mount Tabor. He dissolved His body when they grabbed Him, carried Him all the way out of the city, and at the moment they were to throw Him over, HE FROM THEIR GRIP, SIMPLY WENT HIS WAY! They simply could not get hold of His body.Me:
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/17-9.htm
Matt 17:9 (Bible Hub) And [as] were descending they from the mountain instructed them ____Jesus saying to no one tell the vision until that the Son____ of man out from [the] dead is risen.Me: Did Moses and Elias who were with the Messiah and who was dead in the ground also dissolve their bodies? This was a vision after the resurrection of the dead in Christ.
Luke 4:30 But he passing through the midst of them, went his way.
Are you still with the mentality that Jesus as a spirit never preexisted? When Jesus Himself declared that HE, THE SON OF MAN IS IN HEAVEN, and at the same time HE IS ON EARTH! In the same way, HE IS NOW, BOTH IN THE PROCESS OF CREATION AND IN ALL HUMANS NO MATTER WHO. Also in
1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man was of the earth, earthly:
the second man, FROM HEAVEN, HEAVENLY!Me:
1 Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord (G 1537:that results from) heaven.
Me: 1 Cor 15:42-46 pertains to all men including the Messiah. .
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-47.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/1537.htm1537. ek or exDefinition 6. of that on which a thing depends, or from which it
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday (G5504), and to day, and for ever.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/13-8.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/5504.htm
5504. chthes:
Definition: yesterday
Usage: yesterday.Me: Yesterday is the definition, not eternal. Christ is the same as after he was resurrected from the dead and then glorified. This verse alone proves that the Messiah was not eternal or did not pre-exist.
Hi All,
New American Standard Bible
Phil 2:6 who, although He existed in the form (image) of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped (G725: try to seize hold of). 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/philippians/2-6.htm
725: the act of seizing or the thing seizedMe: Christ was preordained to be king. Yet he humble himself until death. He did not try to seize the throne of God like the first Adam or Satan did.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Me: The Father is greater than the Son.
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
1 Cor 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power…28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Hello All,
Please explain what it means for a non flesh one of a kind son of God to be called the Word of God?
Just trying to understand this as pre-existers think, as I have never heard it explained.
As you say, this non flesh son of God was the firstborn over all creation and his name was the Word of God. So are you saying that God made him of His Spirit, His truth and His power, His understanding, His wisdom, and because of that he was named the Word of God?
As you say, he emptied himself coming to earth, so wouldn’t he have emptied himself of those things that made him be named the Word of God?
If he was empty of those things that made him the Word, then it wasn’t the Word made flesh, it would be he emptied himself of that which made him the Word and he became flesh. However the passage does in fact say the Word was made flesh. Another fact is that the one that died on the cross for our sins came from being an ignorant infant.
What part of the infant Jesus was the Word? The non flesh one of a kind son of God as you say, emptied himself, what part of him that remained was part of the infant Jesus? What part of the WORD actually became flesh, if in fact the non flesh son of God named the Word had emptied himself?
One thing that is for sure, simple and clear, is that God promised the house of David an eternal king from their bloodline, when they seemed to lack faith in this promise, God said He would provide a sign so that they would know that God keeps His promises. That promise was a virgin birth. The birth of Jesus was certainly God’s word made flesh.
Another thing that is for sure, simple and clear, is that God gave Isaiah a promise that had been With God since the foundation of the world, which was of an anointing of a descendant of David who would be sent out and be for a light. Jesus quotes this promise concerning him. The anointing and sending of Jesus to preach God’s Gospel was certainly God’s word made flesh.
Another thing that is for sure, simple and clear, is that God gave David a promise that his descendant would not have his flesh decay, but would according to the flesh sit at God’s right hand to become an eternal king. Such is certainly God’s word that had been made flesh upon Jesus rising from the dead and ascending to sit at God’s right hand.
Jodi…Yes, JESUS “in the flesh”, was and is the promised word of God, he is GOD’S WORD, that came to us in the FLESH. If someone says, I am going to buy you a new car, and does it, his word became, a physical new car “to you”. Very good point sis. As we search and seek truth, God reveals more to us.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
.
The Son of God is the Son of Manthat sits at God’s right hand. The resurrected man that had been made perfect who according to the flesh of David has an eternal throne, is the image of God.
Jodi, nothing you say here and particularly your previous post (too long to quote here) corrects the scriptures we quote. You some how think that pointing out his humanity negates all scriptures about his origin. Such is a naive and silly thing to do. Do we negate gravity because birds fly?
Surely what I believe sees me believing all scripture, whereas what you believe sees you focus solely on his humanity and ignore all scriptures about his origin. Given that alone, you are wrong because all scripture is inspired by God, not just the ones you like.
Remember that the last days sees people with itching ears only willing to listen to what they want. This should not be, but not only do we see this, it is also common these days.
Hi t8,
Your doctrine doesn’t make sense on so many levels with what scripture says, and you leave out a whole lot of explanation. You seem to actually avoid explanation. You say it fits but you don’t explain how it fits. Apparently I am just suppose to take your word that it does.
His origin was foretold that he would COME from the seed of David. I apply God’s foreknowledge to passages. I apply that our God is all knowing and the history of the world unfolded according to His determined purpose. His determined purpose was to save us through a Son of Man of the seed of David, and when scripture says it is speaking about Jesus, I read it as it is speaking about Jesus, the Son of Man. YOU DON’T, you change WHO the passage is speaking of.
By changing WHO the passage is speaking of you have created a false doctrine. Didn’t you say awhile back pretty much that in order for God to perfect the Son of Man Jesus, that Jesus had to pre-exist? Oh I think maybe it was more like you said God had to save mankind through a pre-existing non flesh son becoming a man.
This false doctrine of course comes from you changing a passage that is speaking of Jesus as the Son of Man, into speaking of a non flesh one of a kind son of God.
I apologize if you answered this question already and I missed it.
Does a passage take on a different meaning if you change who it is the passage is referring to?
For instance if a passage is speaking of Jesus as a Son of Man, but someone says it is not speaking of Jesus as the Son of Man, does that change the message? Would that cause a creation of false doctrine?
Lets look at a scripture, where I say it is speaking of Jesus as the Son of Man, but I am guessing that you do not.
1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
I say this passage is speaking of Jesus, the Son of Man who was the only Son of Man born of God’s Spirit in full measure, and was sent out into the world. I have many scriptures to back such up. Even proof as how this fits perfectly with God’s word that was spoken by the prophets and the words of Jesus, the Son of Man himself. What you have is just other verses where you have changed WHO the passages is speaking of.
We can go around and around in circles, you can tell me that you believe Jesus was actually a human, but it definitely doesn’t sound at all like you actually do. A human is not made from another creature that God had made. But the larger problem we have as to why we really won’t get anywhere is because I read a passage speaking of Jesus as ACTUALLY SPEAKING OF Jesus, the name given to a Son of man, but you DO NOT.
T8……what Jodi posted certainly does correct your false teachings , your just not able at this time to see it. Sad.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Lol. She, yourself, and Nick correct me when I quote scripture. That test alone proves the three of you are wrong. You could only be correct if these scriptures we quote are themselves wrong.
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