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Hi Jodi
Micah 5:2“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity.”John 1:1-2In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.John 8:58Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”John 17:“Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.John 17:24“Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.Colossians 1:17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.Hebrews 7:3Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he remains a priest perpetually.Revelation 22:13“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”Colossians 1:15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.Hebrews 1:11-12THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN; AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT, AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP; LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED BUT YOU ARE THE SAME, AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END.”1 John 1:1-2What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life– and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us–John 1:15John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'”Revelation 1:17-18When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man And He placed His right hand on me, saying, “Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.Revelation 2:8“And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life,
John 10:30 The Father and I are one.
Philippians 2:5-6 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
Colossians 2:9-10 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.
John 10:33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
John 5:18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Isaiah 44:6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. 1 Corinthians 8:6 Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Why not look into, why Jesus Christ emptied Himself and became flesh. What did He empty Himself of . God bless
Hi Jodi 👋
John 17:5
And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.Emptied Himself and took on flesh. So He could die for the sins of the world. The above scripture say that He emptied Himself of the glory that He had with His Father before the world began.
The Incarnation of the Son of God is the fact of God becoming Man; the Virgin Birth is the method by which God the Son became man.
God sending His Son presupposes that God had a Son. Christ was the Son in His eternal relationship with the Father, not because He was born of Mary. Since a son shares the nature of his father, so our Lord shares the Godhead coequally with His Father. Yes, “God sent forth His Son,” from His throne on high, from His position of heavenly glory. God did not send one forth who, in His birth, became His Son, but He sent One who, through all eternity, was His Son. Centuries before Christ was born, the Prophet Isaiah wrote of Him, ”For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given . . . ” (Isaiah 9:6). The Son was given in eternity past before we knew Him. His human birth was merely the method of coming to us.
Again, Paul records the following noteworthy statement in the Epistle to the Philippians: ”Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also bath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:5-10).
Before His Incarnation Jesus Christ was ”in the form of God” (vs. 6). From the beginning He had the nature of God, He existed (or subsisted) as God, and that essential Deity which He once was could never cease to be. If He seems Divine, it is only because He is Divine.
God bless 🙏 Hope that helped.
Good Morning,
Anthony and t8,
Very simple here,
9 And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
2 Samuel 7: 12 When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.
Acts 2: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it….. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, he would RAISE UP CHRIST to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
TRUE or FALSE,
- Before earth and man and sin and death existed, God had promised eternal life to mankind.
- By the power of God’s will, the history of earth and man would unfold precisely in order for the One True God to fulfill His promise of bringing eternal life to mankind.
- In the foreknowledge of the One True God one man would bring sin and death, and by one man made perfect would come righteousness and eternal life.
- In the foreknowledge of the One True God in a time of everlasting before the world was, a descendant of David that would be named and called Jesus of Nazareth, God would perfect him making him the source of our eternal salvation.
- Before earth and man and sin and death existed when God promised eternal life to mankind, He created it through His foreknowledge, and in that foreknowledge was the seed of David He would perfect becoming the source that fulfilled His promise of eternal life. Thus God created the world through this man.
Anthony and t8,
You want to tell me that the Son of Man MADE PERFECT through obedience shedding his blood who received eternal life who is the whom verse 14 is speaking of, that he is not the image of the invisible God that verse 15 is speaking of? The WHO below in verse 15 is speaking precisely of the whom in verse 14, the man made perfect shedding his blood, HE is the image of God. It is not referencing a time before the perfecting of Jesus.
You really want to say such, when we are given God’s foreknowledge before He created the world regarding eternal life and thus the source of our eternal life that God knew of beforehand? You really want to say such, when the person who shed his blood is the Son of Man sitting at God’s right hand, and God told us in the beginning that He made man in His own image? Here you have a Son of Man made perfect, but in verse 15 you want to say he is not who is being spoken of, though verse 14 is speaking of the man who shed his blood who was then raised to sit at God’s right hand.
Verse 14 can you agree is in fact talking about a man made perfect who shed his blood, but you can’t recognize that verse 15 is speaking precisely about him, being the one who is the image of God BECAUSE he was made perfect and received eternal life?
You really want to tell me that the firstborn in verse 15 is not the firstborn of the one who shed his blood spoken of in verse 14 the firstborn of the dead, born first overall creatures into the creation of peace, righteousness and eternal life? Verse 15 is not referencing the one spoken of in verse 14 who is, ACCORDING to shedding his blood, a firstborn?.. it instead is referencing a non flesh son of God? Such is just absolute foolishness.
You really want to tell me that God did not create all things through His foreknowledge that He would bring peace to earth and eternal life through a man He would perfect and MAKE the source of eternal life?
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: 16 For through him were all things created,
We are given for a fact God’s foreknowledge He had before He created the world and it held in it a man to be perfected and be a source of eternal life, instead of apply that God actually created the earth through His foreknowledge, through this man that would bring redemption and a new creation, one God founded the earth to be brought into, you want to change the passage to mean Jesus pre-existed and it was he who created the earth. You might as well just deny God completely as you treat Him and passages like He is not the all knowing God He is. I APPLY God’s foreknowledge, you act as if it doesn’t pertain to scripture.
Extraordinary BAD FORM to not even apply to a verse the very verse prior, but pull it out of context to fit a doctrine that wipes out the direct foreknowledge of God that we have actually been given, compared to your doctrine that is nothing but based on circular reasoning . The direct knowledge before the world existed, the person that God made the world through and for, is of the fruit of David’s loins who would be an eternal king. The direct knowledge before the world existed, the person that God made the world through and for is the perfected man who became the source of eternal salvation. You operate on circular reasoning, instead of the word of God that is given to you.
Hi Anthony,
Yes I see you did as t8 did, but gave me the longer list of the standard pre-existent so called proofs. All of which I have thoroughly shown prior giving many scriptures as to how pre-existers have taken those passages out of context, denying fully who the passage is actually speaking of, and not applied God’s actual given foreknowledge to them. I have shown how such understanding destroys the true message being given, a message that is rich and deep and connects with God’s word in other passages, and instead turns the passages into complete emptiness. I am more than happy to go through each one with you.
Micah 5:2“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity.”Anthony, HIS going forth are from long ago, HIS as in one from the tribe of Judah that would be a ruler. NOT he is from long ago telling us he pre-existed, it doesn’t say he is from long ago, it directly says the goings forth of one from the tribe of Judah is from long ago. There is a HUGE difference between these two, I am reading it as it is written, you have ignored what is actually written and are trying to assert that it says what it in fact does not.FACT, the Son of David to come forth, his going forth are from long ago, even from the days of eternity God planned for David’s son to become a ruler in Israel.You can’t use a verse saying it means Jesus pre-existed, when it is actually telling us that God all along in the days of eternity planned for the coming of a ruler in Israel to be of the tribe of Judah.YOU:why Jesus Christ emptied Himself and became fleshME: Don’t you mean why don’t I look up why a non flesh one of a kind son of God emptied himself?Jesus the Christ, is the human son of David who became the Christos–anointed of God’s Spirit. I know why Jesus the Christ emptied himself, because as being anointed with the fullness of the Spirit of God he was able to overcome temptation to follow his own will, he emptied himself of his own will, humbling himself, submitting to God’s will.Jesus said that he was sent not to do his own will but God’s will, that would be Jesus talking as Jesus, according to Luke 4, from when Jesus said that the Spirit was upon him, he had been anointed, and sent to preach the gospel.You’d like to tell me thought that a non flesh one of a kind son of God chose of his own will to empty himself by coming down to earth and being transformed into a mortal to die for us.How does that fit with Jesus saying he was sent not by his own will??If this non flesh one of a kind son of god emptied himself becoming a single celled zygote that grew into an embryo then a fetus that was then born an infant, then what part of this non flesh one of a kind son of god made into this zygote still remained? What part of the infant Jesus who had to grow in wisdom, receive an anointing at the river so that he could become full of God’s Spirit and power enabling him to speak God’s words, was this non flesh one of a kind son of God?Anthony, Jesus said all thing he received from God, he did nothing of himself, so to say Jesus was some great thing because part of him was a pre-existing son of God is absolutely foolish. Jesus was great because as a man God’s Spirit was working in him. Because as Philippians says it was in fact JESUS that was in the form of God, not speaking of a non flesh son of God was in the form of God, JESUS the CHRISTOS the anointed was.I love it when I discover a knew point that exposes more foolishness.You want to say that our savior could only be a savior because he pre-existed, but Jesus says directly that he could do nothing of himself, there was NO PART of himself that makes him our saivior, he is a savior because our One True God is our savior through this Son of Man, through our One True God anointing him with a call to righteousness, perfecting him.But thou,
Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel;
whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.Is the “He” in Micah 5:2 a reference to Christ?
Please Jodi, Yes or No?
Hi Jodi,
Is your answer “Yes” then?
____________
God bless
Ed JIn hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
How does this negate that God made everything through his Word who was with God in the beginning and became flesh and who made everything through the Son of God whose just happens to have the name ‘The Word of God:? And with whom did God make this promise?
And why am I suppose to be wrong when I say that the Son is now in the glory he had with God before the cosmos, but when scripture says it, you admit it is correct but only if you are allowed to add words like plan, new creation, etc.
Jodi, you and Gene are fooling no one but yourselves. You pat eah other on the back when either of you add in words to derive a different meaning. It doesn’t take a lot of skill to do whay you are doing, it just requires a lack of respect for truth IMO.
And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Well yeah. He was the final Adam. In that capacity, he probably fulfilled what Adam was suppose to do. So as death came through one man, so it is that life came through one man.
Jesus stated that he is the life and we know that this eternal life was WITH the FATHER, just as the Word was with the Father in the beginning. And while his name is The Word of God, it is also complimentary that God created all things through the Son of God. It’s hard to deny what scripture is telling us.
Hi Ed J,
It would only be a YES if we held the same belief as to the identity of Christ, which I am pretty sure we don’t.
My Christ the answer would be yes, your Christ a no.
But thou,
Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel;
whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.Is the “He” in Micah 5:2 a reference to Christ?
Hi Ed J,
It would only be a YES if we held the same belief as to the identity of Christ, which I am pretty sure we don’t.
My Christ the answer would be yes, your Christ a no.
Hi Jodi,
My Christ was born in Bethlehem
Is your Christ someone else?Hi t8,
YOU:Well yeah. He was the final Adam. In that capacity, he probably fulfilled what Adam was suppose to do. So as death came through one man, so it is that life came through one man.
Jesus stated that he is the life and we know that this eternal life was WITH the FATHER, just as the Word was with the Father in the beginning. And while his name is The Word of God, it is also complimentary that God created all things through the Son of God.
ME: Adam was the first human he was IGNORANT, and was not anointed with God’s Spirit called to righteousness as Jesus was. He didn’t fulfill what Adam was “suppose” to do. Adam did exactly what God knew an ignorant creature would do. The fundamental belief of Christ is that it takes an anointing of God’s Spirit for a man to be made perfect. Jesus learned about the history of man, he read and knew the scriptures, and he received God’s Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Knowledge, Council and Might, Adam did not have those things prior to his sin.
Jesus stated that he is the LIFE because he knew Isaiah 53 was about him. The One True God is eternal life, and He can give it to His creation, He promised it to His creation before the world was, it was His determined purpose for creation before He even made it. His Word of eternal life was thus WITH Him, and WAS Him in the beginning. That WORD of God was based upon Him perfecting a human through anointing him with His Spirit calling him to righteousness and making him the source of His WORD.
Jesus said “I am the bread of life”, and he said that the bread was HIS FLESH, which was his anointed flesh that became perfected that died on the cross bringing us life. Jesus said he did nothing of himself, the perfecting of his flesh CAME from heaven, it came down from God. Jesus said that he didn’t follow his own will, that it was God’s will who sent him, so when Jesus was sent his going forth was from heaven. Jesus tells us when he was anointed and sent and what his purpose was. Whose name is the WORD? The resurrected Jesus is, and as the resurrected Jesus he is God’s word as God’s WORD to David was that He was going to resurrect his son from the dead. He is NOT God’s word according to any scripture because he pre-existed as God’s word. He is God’s word because he is the fulfillment of God’s word and because God gives him His word to speak, in times past God gave His word to the prophets to speak. In the NT we are told that the one who speaks God’s word is the Son of Man who was able to speak God’s word because he received God’s Spirit.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
t8 this is quite simple,
David spoke God’s word, Isaiah spoke God’s word, and so on and so forth, the words that they spoke were knew to them but they were not knew to God His WORDS were WITH Him all along. When God said let there be light, these words were with Him, when God said I have made man in my own image, these words were with Him, when God brought the flood these were were with Him, when God hardened Pharoah’s heart these words were with him, when God spoke to Moses and made him a prophet these words were with him, when God anointed David these words were with Him, then God gave the words that had been with him long before David existed to David.
When David rejoiced because God let him see the future, he rejoiced because his soul was not going to remain dead, it was going to not just have life again but eternal life, and he saw the source of that eternal life coming from his own descendant. God gave the Words that had been with God before the world was to David, Those words were concerning his son that God would beget his son on a certain day, and through this son bring eternal life, from the beginning this word was WITH GOD. Then that word that had been with God and then later given to David, it remained with God and was given later to Isaiah, and then at the predestined time according to the determined purpose it became flesh, no longer God’s word that He had carried within Him since the beginning.
Edj……Our JESUS, IS THE “ANOUNTED ” ONE, YOUR JESUS IS THE ANOINTING itself, BIG difference. We See a human being whom God the Father anointed, you see a Jesus that “IS” the anointing himself. You see Jesus as the “WORD” HIMSELF, we see a Jesus who is speaking not “his” words but the words of the Living God to us.
JESUS SAID, “many, shall come in my name saying “I AM, the christo’s , and “decieve” many”. Is that not what you people are saying.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Edj……You see Jesus as the “WORD” HIMSELF, we see a Jesus who is speaking not “his” words but the words of the Living God to us.
Why are you bearing false witness against me?
Do you not read what I wright?
Let me edit this or it will drive me nuts!!
NEW not KNEW, and sense I am editing that I want to change a few things to make it more clear as I was in a bit of a rush earlier.
David spoke God’s word, Isaiah spoke God’s word, and so on and so forth, the words that they spoke were new to them but they were not new to God as His WORDS were WITH Him all along.
When God said let there be light, His word of salvation was with Him, when God said I have made man in my own image, His word of perfecting a man was with Him, when God brought the flood His word of redemption was with Him, when God hardened Pharoah’s heart His word of salvation was with Him, when God spoke to Moses and made him a prophet His word of salvation was with him, when God anointed David His words of a man made perfecting bringing salvation was with Him, then God gave the word that had been with Him long before David existed to David.
When David rejoiced because God let him see the future, he rejoiced because his soul was not going to remain dead, it was going to not just have life again but eternal life, and he saw the source of that eternal life coming from his own descendant. God gave the Words that had been with God before the world was to David, Those words were concerning his son that God would beget his son on a certain day, and through this son bring eternal life, from the beginning this word was WITH GOD.
That word that had been with God and then later given to David, it remained with God and then was given later to Isaiah, and then at the predestined time according to the determined purpose it became flesh, no longer God’s word that He had carried within Him since the beginning but made flesh in Jesus, and Jesus began to fulfill all that was HELD in God’s WORD since before the world was, including becoming the source of eternal life, which eternal life is God’s WORD, His word that was with Him and is Him.
Hi t8,
YOU:
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
How does this negate that God made everything through his Word who was with God in the beginning and became flesh and who made everything through the Son of God whose just happens to have the name ‘The Word of God:? And with whom did God make this promise?
And why am I suppose to be wrong when I say that the Son is now in the glory he had with God before the cosmos, but when scripture says it, you admit it is correct but only if you are allowed to add words like plan, new creation, etc.
Jodi, you and Gene are fooling no one but yourselves. You pat eah other on the back when either of you add in words to derive a different meaning. It doesn’t take a lot of skill to do whay you are doing, it just requires a lack of respect for truth IMO.
ME: God did make everything through His word, His word is powerful, what God says happens, He speaks and it is fulfilled, somethings are fulfilled then and there at that moment and some words are to come, they are With Him but have not yet occurred.
Eternal life came to us through a man who God made perfect through the works of God’s Spirit.
God’s word that He gave before creation was eternal life to MAN, such is an example of God’s word that was with God but had not yet occurred. It did occur when Jesus was raised from the dead. Such is the glory that Jesus received, that Jesus had asked God for before he died, as Jesus said,
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jesus as the SON OF MAN is asking for the GLORY that God had promised the SON OF MAN before the world was. What did Jesus RECEIVE, eternal life, WHO IS JESUS to this day? He is the SON OF MAN the ROOT and OFFSPRING of DAVID who has eternal life.
The WORD of God was eternal life to MAN, Jesus the Son of man, fully represents THAT WORD OF GOD, of which was with God before He made the world, but was manifested hundreds of years later. God spoke in times past to the prophets but in the final days God spoke to us by His Son. There is no passage that says God spoke to the prophets by His Son, and then sent down His Son to talk to us directly. If you would define WHO the Son is according to God’s word, maybe you wouldn’t have a problem understanding this, God’s Son is David’s Son who God begat with His Spirit on a certain day. ALL you pre-existers have is circular reasoning. I do not think that you are purposely deceptive, I think that you are just blind but for God’s purpose. Your blindness has absolutely helped me to see the truth so much more clearly. One day God will bring you into the unity of our faith, that Jesus is the Son of God according to an anointing of the Spirit which made him perfect and the source of our eternal life.
Skimming over the rather large post, nothing seems to negate any of the scriptures we quote a lot.
Today in the City of David a Savior has been born to you. He is Christ the Lord!
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
These scriptures says things that you guys expend large amounts of energy to destroy. Obviously, my decision is to say that the scripture is correct as opposed you your commentaries. It’s so obvious, that even when I create a posts containing just these scriptures, you still oppose them as if I wrote them myself. There is no distinction between my words in a post and Scripture in a post as both are condemned by you guys.
I do realise the old saying that if you repeat something enough times people will believe it, but that is not true for people who seek the truth with all their heart. These repetitive long posts do not and never will nullify these scriptures we believe.
ME: God did make everything through His word, His word is powerful, what God says happens, He speaks and it is fulfilled, somethings are fulfilled then and there at that moment and some words are to come, they are With Him but have not yet occurred.
And the Son of God.
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
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