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Hi Jodi & Gene
As we saw at the beginning of this article in John 26, Thomas the doubter called
Jesus ‘my Lord, and my God’, and Jesus did not take exception to his statement
John 1:3 All things were made by him (by the Logos); and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
This section is talking about the Word, the Logos who was God. Now who is this
Word, we need to be absolutely clear as to who this is referring to, so we go on to verse 14 of John 1.
John1:14 And the Word (Logos) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Here again we have the distinction between two personalities, the Word, and the Father, and both of them are called God. Again making it clear that the Word who was God was Jesus Christ.
So can we have two Gods? In the O.T., is seems we can only have One God,
but in the N.T., we have Jesus being called God. However there is only One
God. The English language causes us to stumble a bit, but if we trust and
believe the Bible, it will lead us into all the truth God wants us to have at any
given moment.
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into
all truth: for he shall not speak of himself (itself); but whatsoever he (it) shall
hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
The Holy Spirit is not a person, and the words ‘he’ in this verse should be
translated ‘it’. We have to think carefully about what is being talked about in
God’s inspired Scriptures. So far this by no means completes all the
identification of Christ, the Word, as being God.
In the prophecy in Isaiah which talks about the Messiah coming into this world at a particular time, to be born of a virgin, which gives a lot of details about the Christ to come.
Isaiah 7:10 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying,11 Ask thee a
sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. 12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD. 13 And he said, Hear
ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye
weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign;
Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name
Immanuel.
The name Immanuel literally means ‘God with us’. This virgin was to bear the
child Jesus, who was none other than God’s Son, the Word (Logos) in Human
form. This discourse continues in Isaiah 8 when the Bible as always interprets
itself, and refers in verse 8 to Immanuel, and in verse 10 repeats this by spelling
out the meaning of the name in words, God is with us. God always uses
repetition for emphasis in the Scriptures.
Isaiah 8:8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he
shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the
breadth of thy land, O Immanuel. 9 Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces. 10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us.
So now we have ample evidence of God the Father, and God the Son. People
still insist that we cannot have two Gods, but the Bible clearly states that there are two personalities that are called God. So Thomas was right to refer to Jesus as ‘my Lord and my God’.
Who is this God, translated from the Hebrew Elohim who created the heavens
and the earth? Well a little later on in the Book of Exodus, just before the actual Exodus when Moses was called to be the leader of the Israelites, another more personal name for God (Elohim) is introduced, and this is the Tetragrammaton
YHWH possibly pronounced YAHWEH but the sound of the word is not
important.
In Exodus 3, the story of the burning bush, God speaks to Moses and says: Exodus 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham,
the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was
afraid to look upon God.
Identifying Himself as the God of the ‘fathers’ Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
(Israel) this is repeated in verse 13, 15, and 16, again for emphasis.
Exodus 3:13 And Moses said unto God (Elohim), Behold, when I come unto the
children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me
unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto
them? 14 And God said unto Moses, IAM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt
thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
God was telling Moses that the name Moses should use when dealing with the
Children of Israel should be ‘I AM’. This use of the verb in fact is present
continuous, as long as someone says I AM they are existing.
The tetragrammaton YHWH, Yahweh is made up of the Hebrew verb to be, and expresses the three forms of the verb, Y – WAS, HW – IS, H – WILL BE, past,
present and future, or as one scholar coined it, the ETERNAL.
Who then is ‘I AM’?
Exodus 6:1 Then the LORD said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to
Pharaoh: for with a strong hand shall he let them go, and with a strong hand
shall he drive them out of his land. 2 And God (El Shaddai – God Almighty))
spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3 And I appeared unto
Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my
name JEHOVAH (YAHWEH) was I not known to them.
Back to John chapter 8. The Jews were attacking Jesus.
John 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast
thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Before Abraham was, I am.
When Jesus uses the form ‘Verily, verily…’ this indicates great emphasis. The Pharisees would have known perfectly well that Jesus was quoting the
Book of Exodus, they knew that Jesus was referring to Himself as ‘YAHWEH’
the God of the Old Testament, and they were smitten by that, and hated Him the more for it, and wanted to stone Him. What does the author of Hebrews say about the matter.
Hebrews 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be
called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter. 25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 26
Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt:
for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
The Bible clearly states that Moses chose to deal with Christ rather than enjoy
the treasures of Egypt. Here the Holy Bible, the Word of God, is stating that the
God, Elohim, Yahweh, or I AM that Moses served and was talking to was Christ.
And who does the Apostle Paul say in I Corinthians:
I Corinthians 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat
the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they
drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
So the God, the Elohim, the ‘Rock’ that led the Children of Israel out of Egypt ,
was Jesus Christ.
Exodus 40:38 For the cloud of the Lord (Yahweh) was upon the tabernacle by
day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout
all their journeys.
Deuteronomy 9:10 And the Lord (Yahweh) delivered unto me two tables of stone
written with the finger of God (Yahweh); and on them was written according to all
the words, which the Lord (Yahweh) spake with you in the mount out of the
midst of the fire in the day of the assembly. Then there is also the great powerful angel, an angelic creature, who gave the
Ten Commandments to the Children of Israel, who was acting on the
instructions of Yahweh (Christ).
John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son which is in
the bosom of the Father hath declared Him.
Here John is talking of the Father.
John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of
me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
That could refer to those who were living at that time, however, in John 6
John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he
hath seen the Father.
We know that the Father is called God, but the God of the Old Testament was
seen by people, so that ‘God’ could not have been the Father. Paul makes it
clear that Christ was the God of the O.T. So perhaps to some this does not
appear to make any sense. But it clearly does if only we will pay very close
attention to what the O.T. and the N.T. are telling us in inspired words.
This word YHWH, Yahweh, which means the One who Was, One who Is, and
the One who Will Be. When Professor Moffat came to the word in the O.T., he
translated it as ‘Eternal’. Jesus said ‘before Abraham was I AM’, but Jesus could
have said, ‘before Adam, I AM’. He could now say in the 21st Century, I AM,
because that means in a state of continuous existence, and of course Jesus is alive today! As far as all this is concerned, Jesus has always existed, we read
where He came into existence at some time.
The Father has existed from eternity. However the name Christ had as Yahweh
in the O.T., also has an ‘eternity’ value in its structure. Sometimes Yahweh refers to God the Father, and sometimes to God the Son.
This is also found in the Book of Revelation.
Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and
signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who (John) bare record of the
word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
God the Father gave the Revelation to Jesus Christ, who sent it by an angel
from heaven to John the Apostle, much like He did when he sent an angel to
deliver the Ten Commandments to Moses.Is Jesus God?
Hi Jodi & Gene
Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto
you, and peace, from him (the Father) which is, and which was, and which is to
come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
So verse 4 sends grace and peace from God the Father, AND in verse 5:Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us
kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for
ever and ever. Amen.
So very clearly, the Book of Revelation, the capstone of the entire Inspired Word
of God, our Holy Bible, is sent from God the Father AND God the Son Jesus
Christ to be delivered by an angel to John for him to write it down word for word.
Seven thousand times in the Old Testament the word Yahweh is connected to
the God who Created the heavens and the Earth, who is separate from God the
Father, who are ONE, and both are called and referred to as Yahweh.
This complex thought is hard to comprehend in the English language, however
we have no problem with a man and his wife being one flesh, or one married
unit. The Father and the Son are both God, and are ONE. All that is being done
here is to read the Scripture unadorned with ‘interpretation’.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he (clearly Christ) cometh with clouds; and every eye
shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth
shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the
beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the
last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches
which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and
unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto
the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
This is the Alpha and the Omega talking here, the first and the last, identified
with the Son of man identified once again with the One who Was-Is-Will Be.
Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his
right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I
am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore,
Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
So who is this talking, it has absolutely to be Jesus Christ.
So it is really interesting in the first chapter of the Book of Revelation both the
Father and the Son, Jesus Christ called Yahweh both called God.
Is this difficult? Not if we understand properly what the Godhead is all about.
In the Book of Revelation, written by Jesus Christ, delivered to John by an
angel, Jesus identifies Himself many times, using His other names, and his
other attributes to emphasise that the final book of His word to us has His authority and imprimatur.
Revelation 2:8 8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things
saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
Revelation 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any
two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things
saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet
are like fine brass
Revelation 3:1 These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and
the seven stars;
Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things
saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that
openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth
Revelation 3:16 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These
things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the
creation of God;
John was so overawed by the angel who was telling him all these things that he
attempted to worship the angel, who rebuked him and explained that he was just delivering the messages, but told him to worship God.
Revelation 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had
heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the
sayings of this book: worship God.
Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly.
Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be
with you all. Amen.
So the last thing Jesus Christ says in our Bibles is that He is coming quickly, and
we have His Grace with us until He does.
Remember, the disciples of Jesus did not have the Holy Spirit, and so their
comprehension of spiritual matters was still very limited.
John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us 9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not
known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest
thou then, Show us the Father? Philip, here is how it is! I am in the Father and the Father is in me! Simple!
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that
dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Now once again, here is repetition for GREAT emphasis.
John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else
believe me for the very works’ sake.
Remember John 10! These are the inspired words of God, not of any man, God
forbid! Christ says so clearly in His Word.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
And yet they are quite distinct from one another. When John baptised Christ,
there was a voice from heaven:
Matthew 3:7 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in
whom I am well pleased.
The Father was speaking of His Son. Two beings inseparable as One.
Ultimate Destiny is all about the Godhead. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God (Elohim – plural) created the heavens and the
earth.
There is One who is plural. No contradiction!
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that
creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image
of God created he him; male and female created he them.
The verb God (Elohim) the verb ‘make’ and the pronouns ‘our’ are all in the
plural. The word ‘image’ in this verse is singular.
We can use the fact that in the English language we have what are called
collective nouns. The word ‘army’ is an example. There may be one army, for
instance the British army, but the army is made up of many men. A family may
be made up of several people, but it is one family with one surname. So here we have a Father, and a Son, clearly a Divine ‘family’ monotheisitc God, with the surname ‘Yahweh’.
When we come to the New Testament, we can all be ONE in Christ Jesus who is
called our Elder Brother. We are God’s children, in flesh now, but then in Spirit.
Our destiny is to become integrated with the One Family of God, the
reason for our existence on this earth.
Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods (Elohim); and all of you are children of the
most High. Quoted by Christ in John 10.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are
gods?
There are many members that make up the one body of Christ even now, as we
are ‘in Him’ at the right hand of the Father right now in type.
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in
heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That there is One God, and that Jesus Christ is an integral part of that One God is plain from the Scriptures, why is it not plain also that we are part of One God? It is because so many have ‘bought’ the ideas and philosophies of human beings who cannot fathom the Godhead without the Spirit of God flowing in their minds.God bless 🙏 It’s just that simple!
Hi Anthony,
Overall an excellent post. Although I disagree slightly over the particularity of Jesus Christ existing as the son of God before John 1:1-2, the Word who took on the nature of Abraham was always God and is God. I also believe God is one person, not two. He is composed of mind and spirit. That spirit being Christ who expressed himself as theophany (burning bush, angel of God, etc.). Still, the gist of what you have elaborately stated is true to the core.
Hi Anthony,
YOU:For one reason or another, there has been and still is a lot of confusion about
whether or not Jesus Christ is truly to be reckoned as God, a god, or whether
He was an angel or some other spirit being.
Anything to do with the Deity seems to be problematical, and not easy to understand. This is because our human minds are not capable of analyzing or of
truly comprehending anything to do with the Spirit that is of a practical and thorough way to us.ME: Anthony consider some stuff here,
MOST Christians this is not problematic AT ALL, such is exactly what they believe.
Throughout history massive populations of people have believed in ridiculous superstitions, including those relating to false gods, of which God tells us directly that false god have no power, they cannot walk, or talk, nor do any good or evil, as God says He ALONE brings forth blessing and cursing and He alone should men fear.
What you are trying to say is the complete opposite of reality, what we can readily see in examples that equate to numbers in the billions of people throughout history involving their mindset and beliefs. Humans are IGNORANT and gullible. As MOST Christians believe that Jesus was a man and also God, such is the STANDARD for most pagan religions when it comes to defining their emperors and mighty men as they were also believed to be gods from heaven, some even born of virgins with their father being a god.
That which you say is problematic is not at all for billions of people. For those that it is problematic it is just as problematic for them to believe that humans could have eternal life.
Scriptures can be comprehended through COMMON SENSE as to what they say and what they do not say, but to BELIEVE that they are TRUE takes God’s Spirit working in them, where God has called them to believe it to be true.
Example,
Mark 13:26 At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
This passage is clear it means exactly what it says, but only those who God has called believe it is true.
I BELIEVE IT!
Example,
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Common sense tells you that this passage means just what it says, the fruit of David’s loins upon rising from the dead RECEIVED the PROMISE of the Holy Spirit. Anyone can read it and say that is what it says, but only those who are called by God can actually believe it is true.
Anthony. …..let’s take one step at a time, flooding, the subject with alkinds of suppositions, added words, or leaving words out only cloud the subject were talking about. Here’s an example , you say we already know who created all things , it was Jesus christ. No that is not true, it may be to you and who your represent as true, but certanily not others.
So let’s start right there OK., LET PROVE OR DISPROVE THAT FIRST .
We already know what you believe,because you have stated it in your post above. Now let us explaine what we believe OK?
I first of all disagree with you on this, why, because many scripture say it was God “alone” who created everything in existence. Here is just a few,
Isa 44:24….This says the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed you from the womb, I am the LORD, that makes “all” things; that stretches fort the heavens “alone”, that spreads abroad the earth by “myself”.
I have many other scriptures I can quote that backs this up, but I don’t wan’t to confuse you. So I am trying to keep it simple as I can. Now how do you deal with that scripture, please keep it simple and not try to run all over the place.
Now to me that scripture SAYS to me and there is “only” “ONE TRUE GOD”, that created every thing in existence.
Peace and love to you and yours ……..gene
For there is one God and one MEDIATOR between God and mankind, the MAN Christ Jesus,
Jodi,
What is the reason that you produced this particular scripture, as PROOF that Jesus is ONLY A MERE MAN OF EARTH AND A SON OF DAVID?
Explain how a MERE man can be A MEDIATOR OF GOD? Since as you are presenting Jesus He is without any kind of characteristics and experiences related to God? And from the other hand, DESPITE A SON OF DAVID,
A MERE MAN!
IT IS VITAL FOR HIM, that He
BE IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN, from the other hand
If, as you preach, He was a mere man, He would have been ALREADY AUTHENTIC IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN, A MERE MAN.
Thus, isn’t it evidently clear that since Jesus PREFERRED TO BE IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN,
HE DEFINITELY AT ONE STAGE BEFORE HE WAS BORN,
HE WAS NOT?
IN ALL THING LIKE HIS BRETHREN?
HENCE HE WAS IN ALL THINGS LIKE GOD?
“THE WORD” of God, the beginning of ALL! Well clear in
DRB VERSION.
John 8:25 They said therefore to him: Who art thou? Jesus said to them:
THE BEGINNING, who also speak unto you.
But camouflaged in
KJV
Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you
FROM THE BEGINNING.
Obvious Jesus here referred to THE BEGINNING of creation when the Pharisees were the rebellious angels and never HEARD “THE WORD” of God talking from within their HEART. IN THE SAME WAY, they as humans/devils are not ready to hear Him also PHYSICALLY, never mind spiritually as angels.
Now reflect on what Jesus asserted, though hidden, in the next verse:
John8:26 I HAVE MANY THINGS TO SAY AND
JUDGE OF YOU:
Got it, Jodi? Jesus, pre-existed
in the HEART of these evil people, when they were angels determined to rebel, consequently, He knew all things about them, and in the position to even JUDGE them. let’s continue reading:
but he (GOD THE FATHER) that sent me is true, and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
Jesus Jodi PRE-EXISTED! READ MORE
27 They UNDERSTOOD NOT that he spoke to them of the Father.
OK? IF THEY DID they would have been aware that Jesus, in reality, is not the son of David
ONLY, but also
THE ACTUAL AND AUTHENTIC SON OF GOD IN FLESH, “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, FOR THEIR OWN SAKE, whom they rejected from their HEART while in heaven as angels.
Well indicated in
Philippians 2:6 Who being in the FORM of God, ( WITHIN THE PHARISEE’S HEART BEFORE HE WAS BORN) thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But( BUT FOR THE SAKE OF THE LOST) emptied himself,
( THROUGH THE PROCESS OF THE WORLD, AS AN INFINITESIMAL SPECK IN ALL CREATURES’ HEART, THE LIFE OF ALL FLESH, SINCE ALL IN/BY HIM)
taking the form of a servant, (SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD. Rev.13:8) being MADE in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man. ( ON HIS BIRTH)
Again Jodi WHY it is vital that Jesus had to be MADE in the LIKENESS of MAN?
IF HE WAS A MERE MAN ALREADY, THERE WAS NO NEED TO BE
MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN, AND IN HABIT FOUND IN MAN! NO?
Now read and discern more truth
Hebrews 2:13 And again: I will put my trust in him. And again:
Behold I and MY CHILDREN, whom God hath given me.
How Jodi, in your intelligence humans BECAME JESUS’ CHILDREN? Not ONLY brothers, as A SON OF DAVID?
14Therefore because the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself in like manner hath been partaker of the same: that, through death, he might destroy him who had the empire of death, that is to say, the devil:
OK? CLEAR ISN’T IT! Jesus, being a divine being as much as a son of David, because the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
he also himself in like manner
hath been partaker of the same: that, through death, he might destroy him who had the empire of death, that is to say, the devil:
THE DEVIL would have never accepted that
A MERE HUMAN BEING ONLY
OF SATANICALLY CONTAMINATED EARTH, SATAN’S PROPERTY, BE THE PERFECT RANSOM OF THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, AGAIN, SATAN’S PROPERTY!
Why can’t you see these truths Jodi, in John 9:39 Jesus said:
And Jesus said: For judgment, I am come into this world: that they who see not may see; and they who see may become blind.
With every respect Jodi where in the above verse do you fit yourself?
15 And might deliver them, who through the fear of death were all their lifetime subject to servitude.16For nowhere doth he take hold of the angels:
BUT THE SEED OF ABRAHAM HE TAKETH HOLD.
WOW! WAS JESUS A MERE MAN, if He TOOK HOLD of Abraham? Or to be more clear:
IF HE TOOK HOLD OF SOMETHING OF WHICH HE WAS ALREADY PART OF?
A MERE MAN, ISN’T IT
MADNESS TO BELIEVE SO!
17Wherefore, it behooved him in all things to be made like unto his brethren, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest before God, that he might be a propitiation for the sins of the people.
THE REDEMPTION PROCESS OBLIGATED JESUS, PRE-EXISTED AS A SPIRIT, “THE WORD” TO BE SOMETHING HE NEVER WAS BEFORE:
A MERE MAN!
18For in that wherein he himself hath suffered and been tempted( DESPITE HE WAS NOT ONLY A MERE MAN) he is able to succor them also that are tempted.( MERE MEN)
( DESPITE ALSO A DIVINE BEING, THE EMBODIMENT OF GOD IN FLESH)
Now to the scripture you produced as A MEDIATOR!
It is quite obvious that a mediator must have the characteristics and experiences of the respective parties in order to act justly.
Now Jesus from the human side point of view, as a MERE man born and lived on earth as Son of David is more than justified as a mediator WITH RESPECT TO HUMANS, now in respect of God, how ACCORDING TO YOU, Jesus is justified AS A MEDIATOR , EVEN without having the respective characteristics and experiences of God and
He didn’t pre-exist IN HEAVEN!
As a SPIRIT “THE WORD” of God,
IF GOD IS A SPIRIT!
as much as HE lived on earth as a human in flesh as a son of David?
Now read Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator IS NOT OF ONE:
BUT GOD IS ONE.
What does the above phrase tell you?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Carmel,
For there is one God and one MEDIATOR between God and mankind, the MAN Christ Jesus,
This passage makes the CLEAR distinction that Jesus is NOT GOD, that he is a mediator for us to the ONE TRUE GOD, and as that mediator he is a MAN.
MY BELIEF fits PERFECTLY with this passage, but you speak adding to what it does not say and you make the verse into a lie.
You ask how can a mere man be a mediator to God?
Through God that’s how!
Carmel, without Jesus dying paying the penalty for our sins WE ARE DEAD, our sins would still equal DEATH. David would have died with no hope that his body would see redemption.
What occurred for Jesus to be able to pay the penalty for our sins??
He had to be PERFECTED FIRST, he had to be tested and LEARN OBEDIENCE to his God and our God.
How was it possible that he could be obedient denying his own will/carnal mind?
Isaiah tells you Carmel, God took the offspring of Jesse (Jesus) and placed his Spirit upon him, CALLING Him to righteousness where God would hold his hand and keep him, MAKE him a covenant for the people.
A man is our mediator because that was God’s plan all along, from the beginning. Jesus as a man is our mediator just like the verse says Carmel, seriously are you for real with this question?
Sounds to me like you have something against God Himself, if you ask me.
God can’t make a man a mediator between Himself and other men, that is what you are saying is it not?
God’s word however tells us DIRECTLY that such is just what He did.
Jesus was a MAN, but NOT an ordinary man, he was a man BORN of God’s Spirit CALLED to righteousness, a man who God would not give HIS glory to any other mortal man to, to be a covenant, a promise to save mankind from their sins.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
Such is TRUE BECAUSE of our ONE TRUE God perfecting a Son of Man.
For there is one God and one MEDIATOR between God and mankind, the MAN Christ JesUS
This passage makes the CLEAR distinction that Jesus is NOT GOD, that he is a mediator for us to the ONE TRUE GOD, and as that mediator he is a MAN.
Jodi,
YOU ARE STILL BLIND I’M AFRAID!
What is the role of the MEDIATOR? OF WHICH I EXPLAINED IN MY POST! AND YOU IGNORED!
How as an individual, a person qualifies as a MEDIATOR? OF WHICH I EXPLAINED IN MY POST! AND YOU IGNORED!
WHAT ARE THE CREDENTIALS IN ORDER FOR THAT PERSON TO ESTABLISH HIMSELF AS A MEDIATOR? OF WHICH I EXPLAINED AND YOU IGNORED!
NOW A MEDIATOR IS NOT OF
ONE
BUT GOD IS ONE!
IF GOD IS ONE,
HOW ON EARTH GOD WOULD ACCEPT A MEDIATOR IN RESPECT OF
HIMSELF? AS GOD?
DEFINITELY NOT
ONLY JUST A SON OF DAVID!
JUST A SON OF DAVID HE WOULD NOT QUALIFY AS A MEDIATOR
BETWEEN GOD WHO IS ONE, and a son of David, who are
MANY!!!!!
CHEW THE TRUTH JODI!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Jodi:
You: How was it possible that he could be obedient denying his own will/carnal mind?
Romans 8:3 Because the CARNAL MIND is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Me: I am sorry, but the messiah did not have a carnal mind.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Me: Neither did Christ have sinful flesh. “In the likeness of sinful flesh” is not sinful flesh. The angels have bodies in the likeness of our flesh also. Christ was made a little lower than angels in the flesh.
Christ was a mediator between his father and man because he had the nature of the seed of David and the nature of the holy spirit. He had both. That makes a good mediator.
Carmel…..Moses was a mediator between God and the Israelites, does that make him also a God to? The word mediator has nothing to do with a person being a God. You people again force the text to say what in fact it does not say or even hint at. Jodi is apsolute right on this. Scripture says ,”God is “not” a man, that he should lie , nor a son of man that he should repent”, and scripture also “clearly” says, the mediator between God and man was “the man”, Jesus christ.
Do you people just ignore, change, force scriptures to say what in fact they do not say or even hint at. Have you been lying about who Jesus is so long you can’t even understand simple and straight forward scriptures? Why can’t you simply except scriptures just as they are written?
Peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Hi All
Progressive Revelation and Is Jesus God? It’s apparent when Thomas call Jesus God, you read it, but don’t believe it. It seems that this is problematic for some, we can imagine we are right, and all the time be wrong. We can cherry-pick scriptures and change what this scripture means. If this was a blasphemous statement, would Jesus have let it pass without comment? Yes or No. The O.T. says there only one God, the N.T. says the Father and Son. It appears to have two. Should we not accept what Thomas said? Yes or No. Who is the creator of all things? See: Colossians 1:9, Is Jesus? Yes or No? Then who Is the creator in Genesis? John 1:2 the same Word Logos who was called God, was at the beginning with God. This seems to be problematic for some, to see two at the beginning. You can not have one person with another unless there is a plurality, which there is in the Hebrew in Genesis. We have Two Personalities. Do we not? Yes or No. Who is this Word? See John 1:14 “the word was made flesh and dwelt among us….. ” full of grace and truth. The Lord Himself shall give us a sign… Immanuel… God with us. This seems to be problematic for some. People still insist that we cannot have two Gods, but the Bible clearly states that there are two personalities that are called God. Thank God for progressive revelation, now we know. Praise God!
Gene:
You said: Moses was a mediator between God and the Israelites, does that make him also a God to? The word mediator has nothing to do with a person being a God. You people again force the text to say what in fact it does not say or even hint at. Jodi is apsolute right on this. Scripture says ,”God is “not” a man, that he should lie , nor a son of man that he should repent”, and scripture also “clearly” says, the mediator between God and man was “the man”, Jesus christ.
Do you people just ignore, change, force scriptures to say what in fact they do not say or even hint at. Have you been lying about who Jesus is so long you can’t even understand simple and straight forward scriptures? Why can’t you simply except scriptures just as they are written?Me: Christ was a mediator between his father and man because he had the nature of the seed of David and the nature of the holy spirit. He had both.
Gal 3:20 (KJV) Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Mediator is an added word. Christ said he and his Father are one, not two.John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
So, a better version:
New American Standard Bible
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only ONE.Me: So, there must be three parties involved, God, the mediator, and man. The mediator cannot have sin, or he cannot represent the sinful party. He would himself need to be represented by a mediator. Moses was not a mediator to cleanse sin because he had sinned—all carnal men have sinned. Christ had not sinned because he was not of our flesh. He was of the seed or nature of Abraham. That is how he was a man, of the nature of Abraham and not of the flesh of Abraham.
You: Scripture says ,”God is “not” a man, that he should lie , nor a son of man that he should repent”, and scripture also “clearly” says, the mediator between God and man was “the man”, Jesus Christ.
Me: Christ did not have sin. So is Christ a man or not? All men have sinned. Is Christ included in this group? No, he is not. Christ as a man of the seed (nature) of David represented sinful man. Christ as the son of God represented his Father, whom he and his father are one.
Good News Translation
But a go-between is not needed when only one person is involved; and GOD IS ONE (Me: the Word and his Father, or the Father and his Son)Jodi above said that Christ has a carnal nature. You are saying the same thing by putting him in the same category.
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Me: This means total man, heart, soul, and body. Christ had the heart of his ancestors Abraham and David, not their body. The Word became the Son of God fully with the nature of Abraham and David in him together with the nature of God.
Hi All,
Who searches the hearts of men?
Heb 4:12 For the WORD OF GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit (Me: the Word or now Son of God) also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind (our heavenly Father) of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Me: Christ as a life giving spirit and makes intercession or mediation for us. The mind of the spirit (our heavenly Father) and the holy spirit (the Word or son of God) are one.
Hello Carmel,
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Jesus could do nothing of himself, he is our mediator fulfilling God’s promise from long ago given to both Israelites and Gentiles, because of the works of God’s Spirit in Jesus, where Jesus followed not his will but that of God’s. Jesus is only a mediator through God, not a mediator by himself.
God had to PERFECT him so that he could be our mediator, AND he had to be a human just like us, tempted just as we are tempted, overcoming what all men are subjected to, in order to be our mediator.
Jesus is a mediator of all people through the ONE True God. The covenant given to Abraham by God to be fulfilled by Abraham’s seed was a promise to ALL people.
Carmel,
You:WHAT ARE THE CREDENTIALS IN ORDER FOR THAT PERSON TO ESTABLISH HIMSELF AS A MEDIATOR?
Jesus didn’t establish himself as a mediator. God established him as a mediator.
Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Carmel, Jesus went to the cross serving God’s will. Jesus going to the cross learned obedience and because of that he was the lamb without spot or blemish able to die for our sins. Jesus was OBEDIENT fearing God BECAUSE as the OFFSPRING of Jesse God had anointed him with “the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD”.
Carmel,
3 And he said unto them,Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
What did JESUS say from the beginning Carmel, WHEN was that beginning of WHEN Jesus began to SPEAK telling the people WHO he was?
Luke 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. 16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted*, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Acts 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
Luke 23:4 Then said Pilate to the chief priests and to the people, I find no fault in this man.5 And they were the more fierce, saying, He stirreth up the people, teaching throughout all Jewry, beginning from Galilee to this place.
John 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.
Jesus is the one who is of the word of God that Isaiah spoke, THAT WORD of God that began in Galilee being preached was the anointing of flesh, the flesh of Jesus of Nazareth who went about doing GOOD because God was with him. God’s word fulfilled in the flesh spoken by Isaiah, and now that anointed flesh was SENT out into the world to preach God’s gospel, the new covenant that he would be a LIGHT to the people and even to the Gentiles. The people beheld the glory of that light BEGINNING in Galilee where FAME spread because of his signs and wonders God did by him, who through his anointing was filled with grace and truth, having been MADE the only mortal God gave His glory to, made born of the Spirit a Son of God, JUST as God had PROMISED to David concerning his offspring. God CALLED him to righteousness to hold his hand and keep him for a covenant for the people. This anointed flesh is of the offspring of Jesse just as the prophet Isaiah said he would be.
Carmel…..Moses was a mediator between God and the Israelites, does that make him also a God to? The word mediator has nothing to do with a person being a God. You people again force the text to say what in fact it does not say or even hint at.
Gene,
JESUS IS THE TRUTH, ALSO AS A MEDIATOR.
While Moses SERVED ONLY AS
A TYPE OF A MEDIATOR
the Bible IS CLEAR and tells us there is only
ONE TRUE MEDIATOR
a mediator who can perfectly NOT ONLY close the gap between God and men, but GOD and MAN ARE ONE IN JESUS CHRIST
Jesus Christ unified both the substance of the DIVINITY and the substance of MAN:
Well clear in John 13:31-32,20:17, 12:32!
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus:
Now to the ABOVE scripture, which also JODI produced, I will repeat what I wrote to Jodi:
It is quite obvious that a mediator must have the characteristics and experiences of the respective parties in order to act justly.
Now Jesus from the human side point of view, as a MERE man born and lived on earth as Son of David is more than justified as a mediator WITH RESPECT TO HUMANS, now in respect of God, how IS Jesus justified AS A MEDIATOR, SINCE ACCORDING TO YOU and Jodi,
He hasn’t got the respective characteristics and experiences of God and
He didn’t pre-exist IN HEAVEN!
As a SPIRIT “THE WORD” of God,
Since GOD IS BOTH
A SPIRIT AND IN HEAVEN?
As much as Jesus, AS A SON OF DAVID, He is in FLESH and lived on EARTH?
Now read Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator IS NOT OF ONE:
BUT GOD IS ONE.
Gene, What does the above phrase tell you?
And since you also accepted Jodi’s, permit me to say:
CORRUPTED perception!
YOU ARE ALSO STILL BLIND I’M AFRAID!
What is the role of the MEDIATOR? OF WHICH I EXPLAINED IN MY POST! AND YOU IGNORED!
How as an individual, a person qualifies as a MEDIATOR? OF WHICH I EXPLAINED IN MY POST! AND YOU IGNORED!
WHAT ARE THE CREDENTIALS IN ORDER FOR THAT PERSON TO ESTABLISH HIMSELF AS A MEDIATOR? OF WHICH I EXPLAINED AND YOU IGNORED!
NOW A MEDIATOR IS NOT OF
ONE
BUT GOD IS ONE!
IF GOD IS ONE,
HOW ON EARTH GOD WOULD ACCEPT A MEDIATOR IN RESPECT OF
HIMSELF? AS GOD?
DEFINITELY NOT
ONLY JUST A SON OF DAVID! ONE-SIDED!
JUST A SON OF DAVID HE WOULD NOT QUALIFY AS A PERFECT MEDIATOR FOR BOTH SIDES! Well asserted in
Job 9:32 For I shall not answer a MAN that is like myself: nor ONE that may be heard with me equally in JUDGEMENT.
33There is none that may be able to reprove BOTH and to put his hand between BOTH.
BETWEEN GOD WHO IS ONE, and HUMANS, ALL like son of David, who are
MANY!!!!!
CHEW THE TRUTH GENE!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Jesus didn’t establish himself as a mediator. God established him as a mediator.
Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Jodi,
You are not quite right! Jesus PRE-EXISTED as “THE WORD” of God and OFFERED HIMSELF AS SOON AS THE REBEL OCCURRED!
The fact that HE WAS SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD. Now read YOUR OWN PIECE OF SCRIPTURE:
For there is one God: and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:
6 WHO HAVE HIMSELF a redemption for all, a testimony in due times.
John 10:17 Therefore doth the Father love me: because
I LAY DOWN MY LIFE, THAT I MAY TAKE IT AGAIN.
18 No man taketh it away from me:
BUT I LAY IT DOWN OF
MYSELF. JESUS JODI, PRE-EXISTED!
And I have power to lay it down: and I have power to take it up again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Peace and Love in Jesus Christ
Hi TC,
YOU:
Heb 4:12 For the WORD OF GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit (Me: the Word or now Son of God) also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind (our heavenly Father) of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
YOU: Christ as a life giving spirit and makes intercession or mediation for us. The mind of the spirit (our heavenly Father) and the holy spirit (the Word or son of God) are one.
ME:
APPLY Isaiah’s words to your understanding of the Holy Spirit and Jesus TC, at this point it is clearly evident that you don’t. What you say above makes no sense to me.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
NOW go back and read Hebrews,
For the WORD OF GOD is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
TC how is it that Jesus is ABLE to be a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart? Because as a SON OF JESSE God anointed him with His Spirit, calling him to righteousness GIVING him the Spirit of Council and Might, of Wisdom and Understanding, where he judges not by his own ears or eyes but through God. That which he does, that which he says, are NOT his words, he was also anointed to PROCLAIM the acceptable year of the LORD.
Jesus the offspring of Jesse, is God’s word becoming flesh, Jesus becoming the bread from heaven being anointed by God’s Spirit descending like a dove upon him. With that Spirit upon him without measure, he is also able to SPEAK God’s word and fulfill God’s word.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
3 And he said unto them,Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. 25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
What did JESUS say from the beginning Carmel, WHEN was that beginning of WHEN Jesus began to SPEAK telling the people WHO he was?
Jodi,
I’m afraid you are seeing things only from the perception of the human side of Jesus! YOU ARE BLIND from the perception of HIS DIVINITY.
The scripture you produced is not quite the truth, now read the DRB version
And he said to them: You are from beneath: I am from above. You are of this world: I am not of this world. 24Therefore I said to you that you shall die in your SINS (PLURAL AS HUMANS) For if you believe not that I am he, ( “THE WORD” WHO WAS IN THEIR HEART) you shall die in your sin. ( SINGULAR, THE SIN WHEN THEY REBELLED AS ANGELS, THE ORIGINAL SIN)
Jesus is “THE WORD” of God, the beginning and the end of ALL!
Now read again:
DRB VERSION. This version is WELL CLEAR and says the TRUTH!
John 8:25 They said therefore to him: Who art thou? Jesus said to them:
THE BEGINNING, who also speak unto you.
KJV is also saying the TRUTH! But camouflaged in
Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even THE SAME ( WORD FROM WITHIN THEIR HEART) that I said unto you
FROM THE BEGINNING.
Obvious Jesus here referred to THE BEGINNING of creation when the Pharisees were the rebellious angels and never HEARD “THE WORD” of God talking from within their HEART. IN THE SAME WAY, they
as humans/devils HEARD AND REJECTED. WELL ASSERTED BY JESUS IN
John 8:43Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word. (WITHIN THEIR HEART! since they are devils. with a heart of stone.)
They were not ready to hear Him also PHYSICALLY, never mind spiritually as angels.
44You are of your father the devil: and the desires of your father you will do. ( THAT THEY REJECT JESUS AT ALL COSTS) He was a murderer from THE BEGINNING:
(WHEN HE REBELLED AND FLOODED THE WORLD FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME. Psalm 18, and listen to this Jodi:
ONLY DAVID AS AN ANGEL WAS SAVED BY GOD, in order FOR JESUS to be born through him FOR THE SAKE OF CONTINUITY! This even was personified by the event of DAVID ( “THE WORD” EMBODIED IN DAVID and Goliath SATAN/Lucifer’s embodiment)
Now reflect on what Jesus asserted, though hidden, in the next verse:
John8:26 I HAVE MANY THINGS TO SAY AND
JUDGE OF YOU:
GOT IT, JODI? JESUS, PRE-EXISTED
in the HEART of these evil people, when they were angels determined to rebel, consequently, He knew all things about them, and in the position to even JUDGE them, HE WAS/IS IN THEIR HEART. let’s continue reading:
but he (GOD THE FATHER) that sent me is true, ( Here Jesus made clear to them, that Lucifer is NOT their creator/god, as he declared to them, though he in fact created them, but through the power of God in “THE WORD” from within his heart ) Then he continued
and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
God the Father was IN “THE WORD” Jesus TO BE, as A SPIRIT, IN ORDER TO CREAT ALL THROUGH HIM.
Jesus Jodi PRE-EXISTED! AS THE CARRIER OF GOD, AND AS A SPIRIT/MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND HIS CREATURES, READ MORE
27 They UNDERSTOOD NOT that he spoke to them of the Father. ( THEY NEVER BELIEVED IN THE FATHER, their father is the devil)
OK? IF THEY DID they would have been aware that Jesus, in reality, is not the son of David
ONLY, but also
THE ACTUAL AND AUTHENTIC SON OF GOD IN FLESH, “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, FOR THEIR OWN SAKE, whom they rejected from their HEART while in heaven as angels.
Peace and Love in Jesus Christ
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