John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

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Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 20,601 through 20,620 (of 26,009 total)
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  • #865189
    Ed J
    Participant

    Ed J,
    Jesus was given the Word of God

    Hi Jodi,

    If Jesus was given the Word of God, then he cannot be that word.

    When are you going to get that?

    #865190
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Edj,

    WHETHER YOU ACCEPT IT OR NOT

    IT’S YOUR PIGEON!

    1 Peter 1:22 Purifying your souls in the obedience of charity, with brotherly love, from a sincere heart love one another earnestly:

    23Being born again,

    not of corruptible seed,(HUMAN SPERM)

    but incorruptible, (“THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man, the seed, Matthew 13:37 Who made answer and said to them: He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man.)

    by the word of God ( JESUS, THE SON OF MAN)

    who liveth  (WHO IS THIS according to you?)

    and remaineth forever.

     

    Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God

    is living and effectual,

    and more piercing than any two edged sword; and reaching unto the division of the soul and the spirit, of the joints also and the marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature invisible in

    his sight:(JESUS, THE SON OF MAN)

    but all things are naked and open to

    his eyes, to whom our speech is.(JESUS CHRIST)

     

    James 1:21 Wherefore casting away all uncleanness, and abundance of naughtiness, with meekness receive

    the ingrafted word, (THE SON OF MAN)

    which is able to save your souls.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #865193
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    CARMEL ….Not so much as a single reference to God the Father , in your renditions,  man what a difference between you say  and what Jesus said. Jesus was all about the Father  in everything he did, , not himself, you are all about Jesus , and nothing about the Father of Jesus and Us, nothing about the God of Jesus, and us, nothing  about The Father of Jesus and  us also.  You do not believe Jesus our you would understand that Jesus said,  he could do “nothing” of or by himself.  Well did Jesus say “many would come in “his” name and decieve many. 

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

     

    #865194
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Ed

    You are NOT LISTENING AT ALL to what I have said. You have a MAJOR comprehension issue going on here.

    You are asking me to realize something I already know full well, I was preaching it to you before you believed it yourself, if I am not mistaken!!

    The name Jesus means YHVH is salvation but that does not make Jesus YHVH now does it?  Likewise, Jesus being given the title “The Word of God” doesn’t make Jesus “The Word” nor does it make him God.

    Jesus was given the name that means YHVH is salvation because through Jesus God brought forth unto us our salvation.

    Likewise, Jesus who has many titles, was given the title “The Word of God” where he is called this because we see in him God’s Word made true, through him we received God’s Word as Jesus spoke it to us, and because God uses him to fulfill His Word by giving him the very power of God’s Word to do with it as God commands him to do.  

    Ed J, the “he” in the passages below is Jesus, not the Holy Spirit.

    Let’s change the text to what you are trying to say,

    Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for The Holy Spirit is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with The Holy Spirit are called, and chosen, and faithful.

    Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and The Holy Spirit that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness The Holy Spirit doth judge and make war. 12 The Holy Spirit’s eyes were as a flame of fire, and on The Holy Spirit’s head were many crowns; and The Holy Spirit had a name written, that no man knew, but The Holy Spirit himself. 13 And The Holy Spirit was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and The Holy Spirit’s name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed The Holy Spirit upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of The Holy Spirit’s mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it The Holy Spirit should smite the nations: and The Holy Spirit shall rule them with a rod of iron: and The Holy Spirit treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And The Holy Spirit hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS

    LISTEN Ed J,

    The LAMB is not the Holy Spirit, nor is the Holy Spirit a separate person from God, you know that though.

    READ,

    Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

    Jesus has the Holy Spirit/The Word of God with it’s power resting upon him where, “out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron“.

    #865195
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Ed J,

    Is this the confusion?

    You think that Jesus couldn’t be given a title where he is called “The Word of God” because you think that would then have to mean that such would be saying that Jesus is The Holy Spirit??

    You seem to be telling me that is what I would be saying (WHEN I AM NOT) and what I believe (which I DON’T) and then saying I am wrong because of it.

     

     

    #865197
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Edj…..Jodi and I have been saying that Jesus “himself” was not the word of GOD,  FOR YEARS NOW, where have you been?

    Jesus is not the word of God, nor is he the Spirit,  “anointing Spirit”,  of God, that he recieved after he was baptized at the Jordan river.  He is “the Anointed one” who has been given the “anointing Spirit of God”. That is why he is called the “Christ ” , or the “anointed one”, get it? 

    If you can’t see and understand that,  you haven’t even begun to see the truth yet. IMO

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

     

    #865210
    Jodi
    Participant

    Good Morning All,

    DETAILS in scripture give you the truth, people need to STOP IGNORING THEM. 

    Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest,

    Ezekiel 36:4 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. 

    Folks, JESUS is NOT a “Son of God” according to being some “one of a kind being”. How it is that Jesus is a Son of God is EXACTLY how we are also God’s children, according to being born of God through God’s anointing Spirit, where then that Spirit, as it is with Jesus, is a witness to our spirit that we are children of God. Just as it is with Jesus who was anointed with God’s Spirit and is a Son of God by being led by God’s Spirit in all ways, the same is promised to be made true for us.

    APPLY what we are told in Romans 8, apply what we are told in 1 Corinthians 15 and COMPARE Ezekiel 36 with that of Isaiah 11, 42, 45, and 61,

    Isaiah 11 is prophecy that is NOT YET COMPLETED, it is to be completed when the SON OF MAN returns in our Father’s glory, where he will judge the world, being the MAN whom God ordained to do so. (Acts 17) 

    11: 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem OF JESSE, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

    Jesus is truly a human, a son of Jesse and David and is a Son of God ACCORDING to the Spirit, just as we are to be Sons of God according to God’s Spirit. 

    How does the man, whom God declared from the beginning would come, execute God’s purpose for His creation? By being LED by God’s Spirit in all things through having been begotten of His Spirit, that is how! ..and by such he is a Son of God.

    Not applying John 1:14 to that of Isaiah’s prophecies concerning Jesse and David’s son is total foolishness. The mortal man Jesus is not called God’s only begotten Son because he pre-existed as such. He is called God’s only begotten Son because he was the only mortal man filled with the Spirit of grace and truth, wisdom and understanding council and might, having received the very glory that God had promised in Isaiah 42, glory that no other mortal man would receive. Having the Spirit upon him he was sent TO perform signs and miracles where the people witnessed the son of David having God’s glory upon him. 

    #865289
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi All,

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of THE WORD of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was WITH the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

    Hebrews 5: 8-9…yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

    Just as WITH the Father from the beginning was the Word of eternal life, also With the Father from the beginning was the Word of a man who would fulfill the Word of eternal life. Without this man bringing forth life, nothing that was made would have been made, all things were made by reason of him. 

    #865713
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi to all

    Jesus God in nature,not in personnality

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    “The Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, is truly God in infinity, but not in personality.” (E. White UL 367 )

    Christ is not God in personality. Christ is identified as “The Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father.” The identity of Christ is a pillar of our faith and she makes it clear in that quote that Christ is:

    Lord
    The only begotten son of the father
    Not God in personality
    “Christ is one with the father, but Christ and God are two distinct personages”(RH June 1, 1905)

    “The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one.” (E.White SDA Bible Commentary, vol.5 p.1129)

    John 1:1 is a good question. It means exactly what it says. But it is referring to Christ’s nature. Not to who he is. This verse is not referring to his identity.

    The verse says “He was with God”. Who is he with? He’s with the father right? He’s not with a Trinity. And “He was God”. How are we to understand this? Christ was “in the form of God and equal with God”[Phi 2:6]. However he was not the eternal God. He was with God. He was equal with God. Who was he with? Who was he equal with? Obviously he is equal with the father “The only true God”[John 17:3].

    It’s God who gave Christ his nature by birth. “For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;”. So Christ by inheritance obtained or recieved his nature[Heb 1:8]. This was “Given” to Christ[Matt 28:18]. The Trinitarian however believes that Christ posessed this on his own.

    But Phillipians 2 tells us that”God also has highly exalted him… that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow”. In Hebrews 1:6 God said “let all the angels of God worship him”. All to the glory of our one God the father.

    Compare it to having a child. This is a comparison.

    When you are born let’s say your nature is God. In actuality and reality right now you are in the likeness of men. But let’s say you are “the God, the only God, there is no other God”.This is a comparison.

    Let’s also say you have a son. This son by birth posesses your nature. He is born flesh of flesh, bone of bone, God by nature. So in the beginning was the word, the word was with “the God”[which would be you in the example], and the word was God by nature but yet that word is begotten or born from you. That word is by nature God.

    Is the word the only true God in regards to identity? No. He is God by nature though. Now look closer at John 1 hopefully understanding the concept of his nature vs his identity.

    Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    The word was God in respect to his nature, then the word was made flesh in respect to his nature. This is not referring to the identity of the word. Otherwise since “the word was flesh” we would have to conclude that his identity is “flesh” and therefore when speaking of Jesus not only would we identify him as “God” but we could call him “flesh” as well. The word was the only begotten of the father. Now look at verse 18 and notice that God is the father alone, and no man has seen him. Regarding identity this verse defines him as the father, and Christ is identified as the son of God.

    Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    No man has seen God at any time. It’s a fact. This refers to “THE God”. No man has seen him, but the son has declared him. The son is a perfect copy[express image] of him. But he “the God” is the father alone.

    Now hopefully you can see here who is “THE God” and what is meant by Christ and his nature. Compare John 1 to this..

    Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

    Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

    Who is he in the form of? The father. Who is he equal with? The father. No Trinity here obviously, and not 2 Gods. Christ is not another God, nor is he the eternal God himself, however he was fully God in nature. Hopefully you understand what I mean.

    Notice a few verses later what it says..

    Php 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

    Php 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

    Php 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    God exalted him, God made him equal. And every knee is not bowing to the glory of God the trinity, nor are they bowing to the glory of God the father and God the son. But they are bowing and confessing Christ is Lord to the glory of God the father, the only true God, there is no other God but he.

    1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

    You understand what is meant by the nature of Christ. He was God by nature, but yet not the eternal God.

    “But although Christ’s glory was for a time veiled and eclipsed by His assuming humanity, yet He did not cease to be God when He became man…The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one.” E.White SDA Bible Commentary, vol.5 p.1129

    Regarding Christ’s nature AT Jones says he was by nature God by birth.

    “He is the One whom the Lord possessed “in the beginning of His way;” who was “set up from everlasting;” who “was by Him as one brought up with Him.” Proverbs 8:22, 23, 30. He is the one “whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of Eternity.” Micah 5:2, (with margin). He is the only begotten of the Father, and is therefore in very substance of the nature of God; in Him “dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;” He, therefore, by divine right of “inheritance,” bears from the Father the name of “God.” John 3:16; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:4-8. Thus Christ Jesus was indeed by divine and eternal right one of God – “equal with God.””[AT Jones, The spirit of Papacy]

    Also EJ Waggoner said similar saying Christ is “of the substance of the Father, so that in his very nature he is God“…In this sense “the word was God”

    “In arguing the perfect equality of the Father and the Son, and the fact that Christ is in very nature God, we do not design to be understood as teaching that the Father was not before the Son. It should not be necessary to guard this point, lest some should think that the Son existed as soon as the Father; yet some go to that extreme, which adds nothing to the dignity of Christ, but rather detracts from the honor due him, since many throw the whole thing away rather than accept a theory so obviously out of harmony with the language of Scripture, that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.He was begotten, not created. He is of the substance of the Father, so that in his very nature he is God; and since this is so “it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell.” Col. 1:19 … While both are of the same nature, the Father is first in point of time. He is also greater in that he had no beginning, while Christ’s personality had a beginning (E. J. Waggoner, The Signs of the Times, April 8, 1889

    “Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father—one in nature, in character, in purpose—the only being that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God.” (E White PP 34)

    #865718
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Yes. While God is spirit, that doesn’t make all spirits God. Angels are spirits and are not God.

    Likewise, God’s nature is divine, but not all who have divine nature are God.

    If Jesus Christ has divine nature, it doesn’t make him God and we already know that he is the son of that God.

    Case closed.

    Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

    “But what about you?” Jesus asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.…

    #865721
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi, proclaimer,

    NOT PRECISELY,

    HE BECAME IN ALL THINGS LIKE US AND

    MADE US AUTHENTIC ALL IN HIM.

    We are already in heaven in the kingdom of the Son.

    ALL IN JESUS CHRIST.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #865878
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Mike: It’s not two different “God’s Sons”, Jodi.  Jesus was the firstborn Son of God long before the other angels or our world was created.  Jesus was “created as the first of God’s works”, and was “the beginning of the creation by God”.  So he was already the only begotten Son of God long before he was sent into the world.  God’s Son was then born on earth as a human being by a combination of Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary.

    Romans 8:3
    For what the Law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.

    See?  Jesus was already God’s Son before.  But THEN God sent His son to be born of a woman and dwell on earth in the likeness of sinful man… ie: the Word who was with God in the beginning BECAME flesh.

    Jodi: I put in bold that which directly addressed my question, however I am still a little unclear. “A combination of Holy Spirit and the virgin Mary”, so Jesus was combination of the Holy Spirit and Mary? Where does the already existing Son come in then? Or are you saying that the power of the Holy Spirit combined the already existing Son with Mary?…which that I can’t wrap my brain around.

    No, Jesus himself wasn’t a combo of Mary and the Holy Spirit.  Jesus was brought into existence as a human being VIA the Holy Spirit and the human being Mary.

    Matthew 1:20

    When he had contemplated this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, because the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

    You were conceived by a combo of your mom and your dad – but you aren’t literally a combo of your mom and dad.  Jesus had no fleshly father.  He became a human being through a combo of his mom and the Holy Spirit. The preexisting Son emptied himself of the glory he had alongside his God before the world began, and God transformed him into a human being via the vessel of Mary.  Just like God could raise up children of Abraham from stones – and just like God could take Michael, Gabriel, or any of his spirit sons and transform them into a fleshly human being if He wanted to.  If he had Michael born on earth via a human mother, it doesn’t mean Michael hadn’t already existed as a person before he was transformed.  In Jesus’ case it means that God’s Son who had existed in heaven since before the world began ceased to exist in heaven as a spirit entity and began a different existence as a human being for 33 years.  Then he was transformed to his former glory and now exists in heaven as a spirit entity AGAIN (not for the first time).

     

     

    #865879
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Hi Jodi, I’ve been absent for a while, but would still like to walk through John 1 with you.

    John 1

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome a it.

    I’m sure you’d agree that all of these pronouns refer to “the logos”, right?  They are all written in the singular masculine form (him/he), but the word “logos” itself is masculine in Greek, so I won’t make a big deal out of that.   But then moving on…

    6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

    At this point, you only need ask yourself who or what John the Baptizer came to testify about.  What is the answer?  Well, Jesus the Christ of God of course, right? So if we know that John came only to testify to the impending arrival of God’s Christ, and the Apostle John says he came to testify concerning the logos/life/light that was with God in the beginning, what logical conclusion can we draw so far?

     

    #865880
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    Except for many things according to scripture which collectively go against I believe what you are saying.

    Jesus does not exist as a spirit entity, he is a man of flesh who will sit on his father David’s throne ACCORDING TO THE FLESH and is a Son of God ACCORDING to the Spirit.

    Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

    Romans 1: 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made (Ginomai/come into EXISTENCE) of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 

    Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 

    Jesus was raised in glory, in power, made incorruptible and he was a witness to many where he proved to them he was NOT a spirit, but indeed flesh and bones (1 Cornithians 15: 42-42 Luke 24:39).

    Mike, Jesus became that which God had promised before the world began, a human with eternal life, he is a Son of Man (anthropos/human being) who sits at the right hand of God and is returning in our Father’s glory. 

     

    #865881
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Mike and All,

    Remember God said that He made man in his own image.

    He said that He did not make the earth in vain but for it to be inhabited.

    Scripture likewise tells us that all flesh would come to worship him. 

    We are told that we are to be made into the image of the Son, that he might be a firstborn among many brethren. 

    We are told that Jesus was raised given the promised Holy Spirit, and as said he is of the seed of David a Son of God according to the Spirit by his resurrection from the dead. 

    We are told that those who are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God and that God is going to open the graves give us a new heart of flesh and place His Spirit upon us and cause us to walk in all of God’s ways.

    God had said that He declared the END from the beginning, and that a man would come and execute His purpose for His creation, why He created all things in the first place.

    Jesus became an eternal heir of God’s Spirit and we are to be heirs of God, joint heirs with Christ (the anointed of the Spirit).

    This declaration from the beginning was of salvation, this was a declaration of salvation according to righteousness (Isaiah 46).

    The Spirit is LIFE because of righteousness!!

    Eternal life is not a matter of becoming a “spirit being”, it is a matter of whatever kind of being God made you to be is a being that is fully LED by God’s Spirit, where then He through the fullness of His Spirit thus makes you of His image, where you are caused/influenced to walk in all His ways.  Why we are told that the Spirit is to bear witness with our spirit that we are children of God. 

     

    #865882
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi All,

    I believe there is a very profound message that the scriptures teach that many on this forum have not yet seen the light of yet.

    It is in regards to the BODY OF SIN that Paul speaks of, so I will start a new thread about it.

    #865883
    Berean
    Participant

     

    Jodi
    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    May God give you to see who Jesus, the Son of the living God, really is.

     

    #865887
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    When you don’t apply the given truth you then read other scriptures with total error.

    YOU:  Jesus does not judge by his own eyes and ears, 

    John 5:30……As I hear, so I judge: and my judgment is just;…….

     

    YOU: Jesus will not be alone,

    he will not be the only one (BE SPECIFIC PLEASE USING SCRIPTURE)

    who will have God’s Spirit to discern the thoughts and intents of people’s hearts giving them judgement.

    READ:

    John5:22 For neither doth the Father JUDGE ANY MAN, (as the Father IS not MAN)

    but hath given all judgment to the Son. ( AS ONLY HE IS MAN)

    23That all men may honour the Son, (AS A HUMAN GOD)

    as they honour the Father. ( AS A SPIRIT GOD)

    He who honoureth not the Son, (AS GODMAN)

    honoureth not the Father, (AS GOD SPIRIT) who hath sent him.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #865888
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    @berean

    May God give you to see who Jesus, the Son of the living God, really is.

    You said it. He is the son of the living God.

    Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.…

    Do we need to add to this and why?

    There is one God, the Father, and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ.

    #865889
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    YOU:Jesus does not exist as a spirit entity,

    THE ABOVE CONFIRMS THAT YOU ARE

    SPIRITUALLY DEAD and

    YOUR CARNAL MIND DOMINATED YOU AND DESTROYED

    YOUR SPIRITUAL MIND THROUGHOUT, DESPITE

    “THE WORD” JESUS’SPIRIT, YOUR LIFE SOURCE IS WITHIN YOU.

    Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God

    is living and effectual

    and more piercing than any two edged sword; and reaching unto the division of the soul and the spirit, of the joints also and the marrow: and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 

    13Neither is there any creature invisible in

    HIS ( JESUS’ “THE WORD” )

    sight:

    but all things are naked and open to

    HIS(JESUS’) EYES,

    to whom our speech is.

    DEFINITELY JESUS CHRIST

     

    John 8:35 Now the servant (SATAN) abideth not in the house (THE HUMAN BODY)  forever;

    but the son abideth forever. ( HE IS IN YOU Jodi)

    36If therefore the son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

    37I know that you are the children of Abraham: but you seek to kill me,

    because my word(MY SPIRIT)  hath no place in you.

    Luke 17:20 And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come? he answered them, and said:

    The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: (PHYSICALLY,  BUT SPIRITUALLY)

    21Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo,

    the kingdom of God

    IS WITHIN YOU.( IN “THE WORD” Jesus’sprit, slain like a lamb from the begining of the world.Rev.13:8 )

    .22And he said to his disciples: The days will come, when you shall desire to see

    one day of the Son of man;

    ( FROM JESUS DEATH TO PENTECOST, GLORIFIED ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE HOLY GHOST

    IN JESUS CHRIST

    GODMAN ON EARTH.)

    and you shall not see it. 

    23And they will say to you: See here, and see there. Go ye not after, nor follow them:

    24For as the lightening that lighteneth from under heaven, shineth unto the parts that are under heaven,

    so shall the Son of man be in his day. ( GLORIFIED ON HIS DEATH )

    25But first he must suffer many things, and be rejected by this generation. 26And as it came to pass in the days of Noe,

    so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. ( FROM HIS DEATH TO PENTECOST) 27They did eat and drink, they married wives, and were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark: and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28Likewise as it came to pass, in the days of Lot: they did eat and drink, they bought and sold, they planted and built. 29And in the day that Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

    30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man shall be revealed. (ON HIS DEATH)

    31In that hour,(OF JESUS’DEATH) he that shall be on the housetop, and his goods in the house, let him not go down to take them away: and he that shall be in the field, in like manner, let him not return back. 32Remember Lot’s wife. 33Whosoever shall seek to save his life, shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose it, shall preserve it.

    34I say to you: in that night (OF JESUS’DEATH) there shall be

    two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

    35Two women shall be grinding together: the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left:

    two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

    The above scripture written in bold

    CONFIRMS THAT JESUS RE-ESTABLISHED 

    HIS SPIRIT ENTITY , ETERNAL LIFE, IN HUMANITY!

    ORIGINALLY HIDDEN, SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD

    Mentioned by Jesus in the above scripture as

    in the day when the Son of man

    SHALL BE REVEALED.

    A CLEAR REFERENCE TO HIS GLORIFICATION ON HIS DEATH ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE HOLY GHOST IN

    JESUS CHRIST

    GODMAN ON EARTH

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

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