One God and One Lord

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  • #948201
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Absolutely, so why do you believe the Jesus will come twice?

    Logic is one reason.

    God brings the law and the law condemns.

    God brings grace and forgives those who are repentant.

    God works through one flock, the Jews, and they have the law.

    God works through another flock, the Church, and they have grace.

    God is sovereign. He can unravel his plan as he sees fit.

    God sends the Lamb of God that forgives all sin for all time.

    Up to us to choose to align with God’s glorious plan or reject it.

    #948202
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    If the Word Was God, then that excludes the Father from being God.

    If Donald Trump is the president, then Kamala Harris is NOT the president.

    If you are someone, then no one else is that someone.

    Basic stuff.

    And the simple version is correct. The lack of the definite article tells us that the last mention of theos is not talking about The God. Origen said this on the subject:

    “We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article [“the”], and in some he omits it. He adds the article [“the”] to logos, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article [“the”], when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the logos is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article [“the], and theos without it, prevail also between logos with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As God who is over all is theos with the article [“the”] not without it, so also “the” logos is the source of that logos (reason} which dwells in every reasonable creature; the logos which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence “the” logos. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about  religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos (gods), and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny the divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that God on the one hand is autotheos (God of Himself); and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know You the only true God; “but that all beyond the autotheos (God) is made theos by participation in His divinity, and is not to be called simply “the” theos but rather theos. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with God, and to attract to Himself divinity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos (gods) beside Him, of whom “the” theos is “the” theos, as it is written, “The God of gods, the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became (gods), for He drew from God in generous measure that they should be made theos gods, and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true God, then, is ho theos (“the god”), and those who are formed after Him are (gods), images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the ho logos (“the word”) of ho theos (“the god”) , who was in the beginning, and who by being with “the” theos (“God”) is at all times theos (“god”), not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos, if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.
    (Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

    #948203
    Lightenup
    Participant

    @proclaimer

    What do you think about these things from Origen:

    More from Origen:

    1. Psalm 102 → Hebrews 1:10–12 applied to the Son
    Source: Contra Celsum 1.67
    “In speaking of the Son he says: ‘Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth…’”

    2. Psalm 102 → The Son as Creator
    Source: De Principiis 1.2.2
    “The Son… is said in the Epistle to the Hebrews to have laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens.”

    3. Psalm 102 → The Son’s immutability
    Source: De Principiis 1.2.8
    “The Son… is said to be unchangeable: ‘Thou art the same, and Thy years shall not fail.’”

    4. Psalm 102 → Explicitly “said of the Son”
    Source: Commentary on John 1.37
    “It is said of the Son: ‘Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth…’”

    5. Psalm 102 → Eternal years of the Son
    Source: Homilies on Jeremiah 9.4
    “Concerning the Son it is written: ‘Thou art the same, and Thy years shall not fail.’”

    6. YHWH who appeared to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob = the Son
    Source: Contra Celsum 5.39
    “The God who appeared to the patriarchs was the Logos of God… not the invisible Father.”

    7. YHWH in the burning bush = the Son
    Source: Homilies on Exodus 4.5
    “The one who speaks to Moses from the bush is the Son of God.”

    8. YHWH who speaks through the prophets = the Son
    Source: De Principiis 1.2.6–7
    “It was the Son of God who spoke in the prophets… the same Christ who later became man.”

    9. YHWH who wrestled with Jacob = the Son
    Source: Commentary on Genesis (fragment)
    Origen identifies the divine figure who wrestles with Jacob as the Logos, not the Father.

    10. YHWH who walked in the Garden = the Son
    Source: De Principiis 4.4.1
    Origen says the visible God who walked and spoke is always the Son, since the Father is invisible.

    11. YHWH who destroyed Sodom = the Son
    Source: Commentary on Genesis (fragment)
    Origen says the “Lord” who rained fire from the Lord is the Logos.

    12. YHWH who gave the Law = the Son
    Source: Homilies on Exodus 12.4
    Origen says the Son is the one who gave the Law to Moses.

    13. YHWH who appeared to Isaiah = the Son
    Source: Commentary on John 2.2
    Origen affirms John 12:41: Isaiah saw the glory of Christ, the divine Lord on the throne.

    14. YHWH who appeared to Joshua as “Captain of the Lord’s Host” = the Son
    Source: Homilies on Joshua 2.1
    Origen identifies the divine commander as Christ.

    15. YHWH who spoke to Samuel = the Son
    Source: Homilies on 1 Samuel (fragment)
    Origen says the divine voice is the Logos, not the Father.

    SUMMARY:
    Origen consistently identifies the Son as the visible YHWH of the Old Testament—Creator, Lawgiver, the One who appears, speaks, saves, judges, and reigns. He applies Psalm 102 (a YHWH text) directly to the Son multiple times and treats all divine manifestations as the work of the Logos.

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