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Hi Anthony,
Did it ever occur to you that when Paul says “HE” that “HE” Paul is referring to is the resurrected Jesus? Jesus who is no longer flesh and blood, did in fact partake of the same. Paul wants to make certain the people know that the Jesus who sits at God’s right hand was flesh and blood, just like we are, he was tempted just like we are.
“HE” that now has been resurrected, before “he” was resurrected, “he” took part of flesh and blood just like us.
The brethren are already his brethren, then Jesus the son of Abraham chooses to be made like his brethren in some way, in what way did Jesus make himself like his brethren?
The passage does not say a pre-existing son chooses to be made into a human, now does it Anthony, but isn’t that exactly what you are forcing the text to say?
It says Jesus chose to be made like his brethren, he already exists as one of the brethren, so how does he make himself like one of them? WE ARE TOLD EXACTLY. The brethren here are PRIESTS, not just any priest but sons of Abraham, like Jesus is a son of Abraham. So you have Jesus a son of Abraham just like the priests, and how does Jesus make himself like his brethren the priests? Priests made animal sacrifices for the sins of the people. Jesus sacrifices himself dying on the cross to make a reconciliation for the sins of the people. This is how it behoved Jesus to be made like his brethren.
HEBREWS 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, “he” also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
HEBREWS 2:6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
WHAT is the message of this chapter Paul is teaching to the people? That the one that sits at God’s right hand that has glory is the Son of Man. God has given this man dominion over all the works of His hands, He put all things in subjection under him, which means this man is before all things, in his hands all things consist, but all things have yet to be put under him. He became a high priest, he is a righteous judge as that priest because he was just like us of flesh and blood, knowing human infirmity and temptation, and thus this Son of Man who now has glory and dominion over all, he is able to HELP those who are tempted.
Paul is speaking about the Son of Man who now sits in heaven crowned with glory given dominion over all things, it behoved this Son of Man to be made like his brethren, like one of the priest from the tribe of Levi a son of Abraham, he did so by sacrificing himself for the reconciliation of our sins.
Deuteronomy 18:17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a VOICE CAME FROM HEAVEN, which said, Thou art my beloved Son…Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness…14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about…18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath ANNOINTED me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath SENT me to heal the brokenhearted to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
The Spirit descend upon Jesus
After the Spirit descended upon him, he is said to be full of the Spirit
Likewise he is said to be in the power of the Spirit
After the Spirit descended upon Jesus he says that the Spirit of the Lord is upon me and he calls it HIS anointing
He says the purpose of this anointing, the receiving of the Spirit, is for him to be SENT out to PREACH God’s word
John says, that Jesus speaks the word of God because God has GIVEN him the Spirit without measure, which makes sense because Luke said after Jesus was anointed with the Spirit at the river that he was FULL of the Spirit.
The prophet that was in God’s word in Deuteronomy that would one day COME, CAME to the people upon Jesus being made full of God’s Spirit upon his baptism and sent out to preach the Gospel of God. This is God’s WORD where a prophet that would one day come, becomes true in Jesus, a man with anointed flesh speaking God’s words.
Matthew 21:9 The crowds that went ahead of him and those that followed shouted, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!”“Hosanna in the highest heaven!” 10 When Jesus entered Jerusalem, the whole city was stirred and asked, “Who is this?” 11 The crowds answered, “This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.”
Jesus sent out upon his baptism having been ANOINTED to preach God’s word, comes in the name of the LORD, because what he speaks is not his words, he is speaking for the LORD, in His name. That is what you do when you are speaking for someone else, you are speaking in their name. Jesus is God’s messenger, God’s prophet.
Deut 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak IN MY NAME, I will require it of him.
Jodi, who here is denying that Jesus was a man? But I say unto you that some deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. In the City of David, one was born that was the Christ. Some deny this however. Focus any corrections there.
So much to dissect in your small post Nick.
T8 quotes scripture and Nick gets annoyed because it basically doesn’t support what he believes.
T8 believes what the scriptures are saying as he only needs to quote them.
Nick doesn’t believe them, hence why he gets upset and attacks T8 after T8 quotes scripture.
Nick defends his teaching against these scriptures by saying that the truth in them belongs to T8.
But T8 makes no such claim. He merely quotes the scripture because he believes them.
The Pharisees had this problem too. Jesus quoted scripture to them and they went nuts, so they resorted to false accusations.
Hi T8,
Firmly grounded in your own understandings you allow no alternative views to be considered.
Alone in your own truth.
And here ladies and gentlemen is my view again:
Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.
Yes it is my view, but it is bad somehow.
Hi t8,
According to you, if I am not mistaken, at least others on this forum, the passage according to those who believe Jesus was YHWH in the OT, shouldn’t the passage then read instead YHWH came in the flesh??? Or God came in the flesh?? Or a non flesh son of God came in the flesh??
BUT it doesn’t say that.
Jesus is the NAME given to the child born of a woman under the law. The name in the verse is referencing the son of Mary, it is a name given to someone born on earth and it is referencing that earthly person.
The passage says directly it is referencing that person given that name on earth, and the purpose John is saying this is because people were already teaching false doctrine of who Jesus Christ was, “3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”
Jesus the Christ was in fact flesh, he in fact did come in the flesh. The passage is NOT saying a pre-existing son of God came in the flesh.
According to you, if I am not mistaken, at least others on this forum, the passage according to those who believe Jesus was YHWH in the OT, shouldn’t the passage then read instead YHWH came in the flesh??? Or God came in the flesh?? Or a non flesh son of God came in the flesh??
You are mistaken.
Jesus the Christ was in fact flesh, he in fact did come in the flesh. The passage is NOT saying a pre-existing son of God came in the flesh.
Jodi, what is your best definition of Jesus. One paragraph please.
God is Spirit and we have a spirit and angels are spirits. Is Nick saying that Jesus does not have his own spirit?
Hi T8,
No Nick is saying “Christ’s Spirit” is really God’s Holy Spirit
and Jesus is merely ordinary; which goes against MUCH Scripture ???____________
God bless
Ed JOnly preexisters preach Jesus was that at berth, because they believe he came forth from a Pryor existence of somekind, which they can’t even show what that actually Pryor existence was from any scripture.
False
1Peter 1:11, Micah 5:2 among others
Hi T8,
Remember man that thou art dust and unto dust thou shalt return.
Hi Nick,
Did Jesus return to dust?
Your own words speak out against you
____________
God bless
Ed JEdj…..had God not raised him from the dead, would he have returned to dust? I beleve he sure would have.
Your preexistibg Jesus is a lie, one of the biggest lies ever devised by fallen christanity.Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
T8….You deny Jesus am into his existence as a human being, you believe he was “MORPHED” into a human being. To say you don’t is simply not true. That makes you the same as all fallen christanity, they also like tou believe Jesus preexisted his berth on this earth.
We belive JESUS CAME INTO HIS “EXISTENCE” AS AN ACTUAL HUMAN BEING, have NO pastexistence of any kind. We do not SEPERATE, Jesus from our “exact” likeness, you preexisteners do. We believe Jesus was a perfected human being by A WORK OF GOD IN HIM, YOU believe he was allread perfect befor his berth on this earth. We believe Jesus was anointed with holy spirit after his baptizm by John, you believe he already was anointed with hoLy spirit at berth .
We believe we can become “exactly” like Jesus, to the full stature of him, by that same anointing spirit he had on him. You don’t believe believe that because you have “SEPERATED” HIM FROM YOURSELF making him completely different then you are. To you he is not and ordinary prophesied human being born from his brethern as Moses and God the Father said.
Ther is a huge difference between what you and others here believe and us.
Peace and love to you and yours. …..gene
To All,
What is true from scripture?
A NON flesh ANOINTED (Christ) Son of God who is also God who was named Jesus, “has come in the flesh” and when he came to earth being born as an infant he was named Jesus because that was his NAME before when he was not flesh and he was being called the anointed one (Christ) because he had been anointed before coming to earth in the flesh.
If you are going to say that John was NOT speaking of Jesus Christ, as in the infant named Jesus that grew up in wisdom, had the Spirit of God descend upon him and then was sent out by God to preach God’s word, but he is speaking of Jesus Christ as the NON flesh Son of God before the infant was born, then you would have to say that the pre-existing Son of God had prior the name of Jesus and he prior had been anointed.
What else does John say in the same passage,
1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
WHEN was the Son SENT into the world to be a savior,
Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased….Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness…14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about…18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath ANOINTED me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath SENT me to heal the brokenhearted to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Here we have the Spirit descend on Jesus WHERE GOD then DECLARES him to be His Son, where Jesus himself calls that his ANOINTING (CHRIO to anoint and be the Christos anointed), as Jesus says “the Spirit of the Lord upon me” BECAUSE he had been ANOINTED me with the Spirit that is now upon me, and he says the reason for this ANOINTING is so he can BE SENT out to preach DELIVERANCE to the CAPTIVES, SET LIBERTY. He is SENT to be a savior.
WHO was SENT by God to be our Savior according to scripture? NOT a non flesh being coming to earth was sent.
Acts 13: 22 After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.’ 23 “From this man’s descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised.
Psalms 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
The DAY the Spirit descended upon Jesus, Jesus who is said in scripture DIRECTLY to have been born of the GENES of David, God calls this Jesus, now having been ANOINTED with God’s Spirit having the fullness and power of the Spirit, HIS SON. Then we read that this Son is the Son God is sending.
1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
THE SON that the Father SENT of who John is speaking of, according to direct scripture, would OBVIOUSLY be Jesus who had the Spirit descend upon him, was then called by God as His Son and was SENT.
I John 4:10 Herein* is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
This would be the Son God also SENT to be a propitiation for our sins. The Son that was declared a Son at the river and then we are directly told was SENT out at that time into the world to set captives free. The descendant of DAVID God brought to Israel to be a Savior.
God did not bring us a savior by sending us a non flesh son to be flesh to save us. God brought us a descendant of David, who God had promised He would beget WITH HIS SPIRIT making David’s son into His own Son, and send this Son out into the world to be our savior.
This is all clearly written give to you in scripture, but time and time again we see people just flat out ignoring it, or trying to manipulate the word of God and have it say what it clearly does not.
1 John 1:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
God promised that he would send unto Israel one day a savior of the seed of David, He never promised ever in any passage to send himself or an already existing son, He promised David He would beget this son of David with His Spirit on a certain DAY. The infant born was and is the SEED of David according to direct scripture, and he was named Jesus. Then we see Jesus having the Spirit descend upon him where it is said that he is now FULL of the Spirit and Power, but we are to believe that this is not God’s promise to David being fulfilled? Jesus being FILLED with God’s Spirit and power where it is said God was in him, does not equate to the prophecy, “this DAY have I begotten thee” Just absolute stubborn blindness to try and say that it does not.
Hi t8,
YOU:Jodi, what is your best definition of Jesus. One paragraph please.
ME: I will work on a one paragraph for you, I like this idea. If you could give me one paragraph too that would be great.
Hi Ed,
1 Peter 1.11 does not say what you want it to.
It shows that the same Spirit of Anointing was in the prophets as well as the Son.
Why would you think the Spirit of anointing is the human spirit of a man?
Hi Ed,
The Body of the LAMB OF GOD was carried by the HIGH PRIEST into the heavenly temple,
for your sake.
Only preexisters preach Jesus was that at berth, because they believe he came forth from a Pryor existence of somekind, which they can’t even show what that actually Pryor existence was from any scripture.
False. Now imagine the possibility that other things you perceive could be false.
The Word was in the beginning with God and the Word became flesh. Jesus Christ came in the flesh. God created the universe through the Son of God and the Word as it is written.
What we believe is complete and built on scripture rather than taking a predefined belief and twisting everything to suit that belief.
I’m merely repeating what the scriptures say with zero spin.
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