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Guess what t8, John wrote AFTER Jesus had been raised from the dead, and how did he come as a witness to many to prove God’s Word of the gospel? He had come to them IN THE FLESH, with a flesh and bones body, where he had died but HIS FLESH did not see corruption. He is to sit on the throne as King of kings and Lord of lords of the offspring of David. We are also told that the SAME Jesus that ascended to heaven is the SAME Jesus that is to descend, as it is the Son of Man that is returning among the clouds in the glory of OUR Father.
All this kicking and screaming and false accusations over one verse.
But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid! For behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people: Today in the City of David a Savior has been born to you. He is Christ the Lord! And this will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger.”…
Do these words burn like fire?
I get accused of this and that everytime I quote, repeat, and teach this. But I know the victory is mine because I am the one defending the scripture as it is. You guys are the one teaching against it and basically calling the angel who said this message as a liar. Seriously, you guys should think about the potential consequences for your actions. Believe the scripture or not because you have a free will. but free will makes you responsible for your choices.
I choose to believe the scripture because I love God. And we should be humble enough to let scripture correct us and renew our minds. Do not let the staleness of a stubborn mind have its way. Let the water cleanse your mind and understanding and synch it with God’s will for your life.
Hi T8
I guess you know by now how Jesus felt when the Pharisees accused him of false doctrine. Thanks for your courage.
Hi T8,
If namecalling is your thing go for it.
But schoolyard bullying is a weak defence for your wrong understandings.
Seek the Spirit.
Hi T8,
Victory and proving yourself is your personal aim?
Why not open your mind and seek the living truth?
It would be the best way of showing you love God.
Hi T8,
Diverting into proof that Jesus had a nose or the colour of his hair is unnecessary nonsense.
We know this man was like us in all aways except sin.
But you think we should assume he was born already anointed because of the prophetic words of the angel?
But schoolyard bullying is a weak defence for your wrong understandings.
That’s right Nick. When you accuse people day and night, you are bullying people to believe your view. Thankfully it is not working out for you, but certainly I will stand up to bullying and challenge them. And it is funny how bullies feel bullied when they are called out. I address these kinds of actions and subject them to the truth of scripture. If that is painful for you, then I can assure you that pain is good because it warns you that something is wrong. Ignore it at your own peril. A man born from above loves because God is love. If a man loves not and accuses people day and night, such a man cannot belong to God according to scripture.
Show us the fruit that you are born again and we will believe that you are of God. No fruit and we will at least be suspicious.
And when you accuse people day and night Nick, you are being naughty.
Definition
badly behaved; disobedient.
“you’ve been a really naughty boy”mildly rude
Hi T8,
Yes clinging to tradition is unwise.
When we attack false teachings you can feel singed.
False teachers, false prophets and their ilk abound so let go of their nonsense.
Scripture is right Nick. As long as I defend it, then I feel secure. If I go against it, then I would worry.
Hold firmly to the truth, encourage by sound doctrine, & refute those who oppose it.
I have to refute you regarding your opposition to Jesus being the messiah in the City of David. I defend this scripture and declaration from the holy angel and consequently need to rebuke and correct you on this. Further, I remind you about the fruit of the Antichrist Spirit that denies that Jesus is the Christ. To you, Jesus is just an ordinary man. Only Jesus Christ is the Christ according to you. You’ve been caught out right?
🙂
Nick, you should know by now that I am never going to let an argument oppose God, Jesus Christ, and scripture. Please stop being offended then. This will continue and it is what these forums are here for. If you don’t like being challenged, then there are may be many religious forums where you could teach and not be tested. You might also be able to post in a forum like this one without challenge. I can’t vouch for that though.
Hi T8,
Not only do you think you are right,
but now you claim to speak for God, His Son and Scripture?
Wow!
Hi t8,
ME: Guess what t8, John wrote AFTER Jesus had been raised from the dead, and how did he come as a witness to many to prove God’s Word of the gospel? He had come to them IN THE FLESH, with a flesh and bones body, where he had died but HIS FLESH did not see corruption. He is to sit on the throne as King of kings and Lord of lords of the offspring of David. We are also told that the SAME Jesus that ascended to heaven is the SAME Jesus that is to descend, as it is the Son of Man that is returning among the clouds in the glory of OUR Father.
YOU: All this kicking and screaming and false accusations over one verse.
ME: I am not talking about one verse t8, I am talking about understanding one verse according to many, many other verses, actually the entirety of the message given in the bible. This is exactly your problem, you want to put the verse into a separate hole as if it is not part of other verses, where the rest of scripture that comes before and after it don’t count to WHY the angel said what he did.
You are the one making an EXTREMELY FALSE ACCUSATION, so your words are quite hypocritical actually. No one is saying that the angel is a liar. I am certainly NOT calling the angel a liar. I never said the angel was a liar, but yet you accuse me of such. Not by any stretch of the imagination have I done such. You deny the fact that as God has spoken giving prophecy (the future) the angel spoke through God’s word of prophecy, thus calling an infant according to God’s will of that infant, according to His word through promises. You really want to say that is me calling the angel a liar, because I am apply God’s word to what the angel said?? You are absolutely a false accuser and utterly absurd right now.
YOU:But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid! For behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people: Today in the City of David a Savior has been born to you. He is Christ the Lord! And this will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in swaddling cloths and lying in a manger.”…
Do these words burn like fire?
I get accused of this and that everytime I quote, repeat, and teach this. But I know the victory is mine because I am the one defending the scripture as it is. You guys are the one teaching against it and basically calling the angel who said this message as a liar. Seriously, you guys should think about the potential consequences for your actions. Believe the scripture or not because you have a free will. but free will makes you responsible for your choices.
I choose to believe the scripture because I love God. And we should be humble enough to let scripture correct us and renew our minds. Do not let the staleness of a stubborn mind have its way. Let the water cleanse your mind and understanding and synch it with God’s will for your life.
ME: You say you believe in scripture how it is, but yet you say that God could not perfect a man, yet scriptures says that Jesus is the Son of Man, the seed of Abraham and David who God perfected, and that we have eternal salvation because God perfected a man.
I have given many scriptures and you do not touch them. You tried to use Simeon to defend your position, but then I showed you how Simeon spoke holding the infant Jesus and was basically quoting Isaiah. You won’t even mention prophecy, the WORD of God that was, and is to be fulfilled.
If you hold the truth, and the bible is true, then why do you not speak of key passages of prophecy, God’s promises?
You can’t even answer basic questions, let alone speak of major passages of God’s word, you ignore them. You ignore Isaiah.
You say, “do these words burn like fire? to answer your question, you couldn’t be MORE WRONG, the angels words fit absolutely perfect with the rest of God’s word, they are most beautiful and truthful connecting with Isaiah’s words. The angel’s words are Isaiah’s words because they are both messengers of God unified giving the same message, and because they came so many years apart it proves that God is true, His word is true. If God’s word is true proven by the angels words that are of the same as Isaiah’s words, then I know that God’s other promises must be true too, I do have eternal life through my brother, the human of the seed of David, who is also my King and my Lord through my Father’s work with His amazing Spirit.
Hi T8,
Not only do you think you are right,
but now you claim to speak for God, His Son and Scripture?
Wow!
See you did it again. False accusations seem so ingrained in you character that you may not even realise you are doing this. Please pray about this.
I merely quote that today in the City of David… and you get upset and deny exactly what it says and somehow I am manipulating the scripture to my own end by not adding a thing whilst you add a bunch of stuff and you are the one with this spirit you speak of.
You know that debating this angel means you will come off second best. I’m still believing the angel over your extra baggage. Your not convincing me. But feel free to offer some new evidence. I will at least listen to it.
I see. So Jesus wasn’t born the messiah in the City of David as written and declared. You have a spirit that no one else here has. And the test of this spirit is to deny that Jesus is the Christ because Jesus was just a flesh man with the best resume later in life to become the messiah. Further, if any of us agree with you 100%, then they will be with you in heaven. Got it I think. Pretty clear I think. Anything thing you would like to add?
Good Monring t8,
Listen to what the angel says in Matthew, we are directly told that the angel speaking to Joseph concerning the conceived Jesus is the child to fulfill Isaiah’s prophecies, he is named Jesus because he will save his people from their sins, he is called a savior because he will save his people from their sins.
Matthew 1:20 While he was thinking about this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, descendant of David, do not be afraid to take Mary to be your wife. For it is by the Holy Spirit that she has conceived. 21 She will have a son, and you will name him Jesus – because he will save his people from their sins.” 22 Now all this happened in order to make come true what the Lord had said through the prophet, 23 “A virgin will become pregnant and have a son, and he will be called Immanuel” (which means, “God is with us”).
What also does the prophet Isaiah say concerning Jesus,
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Isaiah 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. 4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath ANOINTED me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted*, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him…Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness…14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about…18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
The ANOINTING (Chrio) making Jesus the Christ (Christos) we are directly told occurred at the baptism of Jesus when the Spirit descended upon him. This is when Jesus was begotten by God, BORN of God’s Spirit and SENT out into the world as God’s Only begotten Son.
The people beheld the glory, not of an only begotten Son who as you say, emptied himself coming down from heaven, the people beheld the glory of the man who had been anointed with God’s Spirit with power without measure, they beheld the glory of JESUS the Christ. You say the “only begotten son” is a reference to a person NOT of flesh that then was sent becoming flesh. The only begotten Son is Jesus IN THE FLESH who had been anointed/born/begotten of God’s Spirit at the river, which is EXACTLY WHY the people said that they beheld the glory of God’s only begotten Son who was filled with grace and truth, as Jesus upon being born of the Spirit was sent out to preach God’s word, to heal, perform signs and miracles. He was seen as God’s Son because God was in the Son of Man, as he had been born of God’s Spirit.
Acts 10:37 You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him. 9 “We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, 40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”
WHY is Jesus called God’s Son?
t8, you teach it is reference to him when he did not exist in the flesh, that he had been already a Son who was non human, and he is called a son because he pre-existed as a non human special only begotten son. You refer to the Son not as Jesus the Christ in the flesh, but as BEFORE Jesus was Christ in the flesh.
Scripture says otherwise, not only does God call Jesus His Son upon his anointing at the river. But Paul tells us that Jesus the seed of David is God’s Son according to the Holy Spirit, not according to already being a Son.
t8, you do not speak scripture, you speak Christian tradition rooted in Greek ideas.
Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Prophecy tells us that God would take David’s son and make him into His own Son. How does He do that? He does it by anointing him with the full measure and power of His Spirit. Jesus was the ONLY mortal human to receive such an anointing, to have been born of the Spirit in full. Prophecy also tells us that God would take David’s son and MAKE him into His firstborn Son. How does He do that? He raises him from the dead and makes him the firstborn Son of Man with eternal life. This is the GOSPEL of God spoken by the prophets that God had promised, the WORD that God had spoken that then became true in the flesh of Jesus, which is the bread that came down from God, Jesus IN the FLESH having been anointed/BORN of God’s Spirit.
WHY is Jesus called God’s Son? Because he pre-existed being a son not of flesh? NO!
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Jesus was raised from the dead WHY? Because he pre-existed as an eternal son already and God was going to give him back his glory? NO!
Jesus was raised from the dead because though he were a Son (ACCORDING to the Holy Spirit living in him having been anointed), he had to LEARN obedience and thus be made perfect through his obedience going to the cross, overcoming his own will aroused by his fear of death. That perfecting through his display of obedience made him the Son of Man who could be a propitiation for our sins. That perfecting through his act of obedience going to the cross to die, God could not allow his flesh to see corruption, he was not deserving of death so God resurrected him from the dead making him the firstborn Son of eternal life. All things God had created through and for this Son, the Son of Man of the seed of Abraham and David, who had been perfected through the works of God’s Spirit. This Son of Man’s purpose was to bring us into having faith in the ONE TRUE God, who made heaven and earth with HIS HANDS, who through bringing the Son of Man to perfection creates a new heaven and earth that will never be removed. Jesus the Christ through God’s work has brought us LIFE, without him and that LIFE nothing would have been made by the One True God, our heavenly Creator and Father.
This is exactly WHY we are told by Paul that by one man sin and death came, and by one man righteousness and eternal life has come. The second Adam was in God’s word before the world began. This second Adam, the heavenly man, had been raised IN GLORY, raised a flesh and bones body with eternal life. Jesus received THAT GLORY, that glory existed in God’s word before He made the world. BEFORE God’s word is manifested it is TRUE.
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Jodi….You nailed it sis. If T8 were to except the truth about the real Jesus, his whole house of cards would come tumbling down. He can not except that Jesus did not exist before his berth on this earth, he is no different then most all christanity, who also preach Jesus as a preexisting being of somekind.
He dosen
t preach that Jesus came into his EXISTENCE as a human flesh and blood being exactely as we do. Therefore he denies that Jesus came into his (Existence) as a flesH and bloid human being exactly as we have. So he being an Antichrist, has to believe Jesus prexisted and was born a christos. HE like nearly all Christanity preaches a different Jesus then scripture shows.But then isn’t that what Jesus said would happen, “for many would come in my name saying, i am, and decieve many”. Narrow is the gate, straight is the way that leads to life and “FEW” there be that find it.
Peace and love to you and yours………gene
Hi Jodi,
No point in banging your head against a wall.
T8 is not ignorant but in rebellion against the word.
He stands proudly on his dung heap of personal infallibility.
rest a while.
Listen to what the angel says in Matthew, we are directly told that the angel speaking to Joseph concerning the conceived Jesus is the child to fulfill Isaiah’s prophecies, he is named Jesus because he will save his people from their sins, he is called a savior because he will save his people from their sins.
Which means he was born the saviour. He was born the messiah. He was born the Lord. This is written and you actually deny what is written by reason of your own self-imposed small print clauses. Stop adding to the verse to derive an opposite meaning. Try to think outside of the prison around your mind. If a prophet is playing football and not prophecing at that moment, then your logic says he is not a prophet. He is only a prophet when he is prophesying. I’m a web developer, but I’m not building websites 100%*of the time.
Jesus was born the saviour, messiah, and Lord whether you agree with it or not. The Spirit of God would never agitate a person for teaching this or even merely quoting the verse. You guys teach that Jesus was not the Christ when he was born and it seems there is a Spirit that manifests when this is spoken. It is strange even though it is written.
The sooner you admit your fault the sooner you can let this truth renew your mind. I realise you have pet doctrines to protect, but honestly no one cares about them. People who really care, care about the truth, not about weird doctrines which are a dime a dozen.
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