November 15, 2018 at 10:14 pm #835533
New American Standard Bible
Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel
Dan 12:3 (KJV) And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Me: We will shine like the stars in heaven, Christ being the corner stone and bright morning star. God does not change, nor does he die. The man, Christ did die. The Word in him did not. The Word is the angel of the Lord or the messenger of the Lord. He is God expressed and is God. The heart and mind of Christ is now in theNovember 16, 2018 at 7:21 am #835538
My you wander from the path of truth.
The Word was is no angel or messenger as the JWs foolishly teach.
Reliant on one verse derivations they think that the voice of the Archangel must be from the returning Lord.
The Word is not a being but is of the Spirit.November 16, 2018 at 8:37 am #835545
Yes, Christ was made higher than the angels at his ascension into heaven. He inherited a name above all names, that is his father’s name which is the one name of both. It is unknown at to man at this time. As I have stated, angel also means messenger. Christ shines like the stars in heaven. He is the bright morning star, much higher than the angels. The angels also are called stars. Christ is God revealed to our seeing and hearing. God is invisible.
Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Job 3:36 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Me: Chris is way above the angels in heaven in glory. He is like the angels in that he has a human form and shines brightly than the stars(angels) in heaven. We too will be like him when we are glorified.
Matt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Me: Their is no need for man to procreate in the resurrection of the just, for this is the final step, which is in glory. Death is swallowed up in life.November 16, 2018 at 8:42 am #835546
The bone head theory that the glorified Christ is flesh and bone in absurd.November 16, 2018 at 9:10 am #835547
2 Peter 1.19
And so we have the prophetic word, made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention
as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and
THE MORNING STAR arises in your hearts.
The Spirit of Anointing, Christ.
My children, with whom I am again in labour until Christ is formed in you-
And as for you the anointing which you received from him abides in you
and you have no need for anyone to teach you, but as his anointing teaches you about all things ,
and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in him.November 16, 2018 at 9:44 am #835548
It is all about God and the works of His Spirit.
Flesh contributes nothing.November 16, 2018 at 2:27 pm #835550Dig4truthParticipant
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Nick: “It is all about God and the works of His Spirit. Flesh contributes nothing.”
Nick, could you be saved without the flesh of the Messiah dying for you? You see, it was His perfect, sinless flesh that was offered up like the spotless sacrificial lamb. Now if you want to talk about “our” flesh then I have no complaints with what you said.November 16, 2018 at 2:32 pm #835551
Yes the man Jesus was like us in every way but sin. He was tempted as we are but never sinned.
That is why he is sinless and we can follow him into his death and resurrection.
We could not follow him if he was not an overcomer
Rev3November 16, 2018 at 4:16 pm #835552
The flesh of Jesus was exactly like ours.
He was born of woman, born under the Jewish law.
He proved that the law was life, and obedience to it cleansed a man.
Do you not value the efforts God made to save you?
There is no other option for gentiles but to obey the command to be born again.November 16, 2018 at 8:47 pm #835554t8Participant
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ME: No arguing is being done with the angel t8 not by Nick, Gene, or myself. You on the other hand treat the angel as if he is stupid of all prophecy, and we treat the angel as if he is a messenger of God in full knowledge of prophecy.
Not only today, that is, “Today in the City of David a Savior has been born to you”, but he was the Christ at that moment and the Lord too. “He is Christ the Lord! And this will be a sign to you:”.
Settled. It is what it is. No trickery, deduction, editing, or changing it. Read it as it is. Simple and clear. He was born the messiah and the lord.
Amen!November 16, 2018 at 8:55 pm #835556
No question that if scripture is not spiritual your literal interpretations could never be wrong.
But it is, and you are.November 16, 2018 at 9:30 pm #835560t8Participant
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If scripture says one thing and you another, then of course you can excuse it as some secret meaning only derived by those who possess a particular spirit. I would not totally disagree. It is written that the Antichrist spirit denies Jesus is the messiah. You say you need a spirit to see that he wasn’t born the messiah, even though it is clearly written and declared that he was.
You have been exposed Nick plain and simple. I would suggest that you change because I know for a fact that reality won’t change to suit your view.God and truth does not revolve around you and your views.
Your truth is but an opinion Nick, and we have scripture to judge your opinions and you have been found wanting, especially when it comes to Jesus being the Christ.November 16, 2018 at 10:34 pm #835561
You: The Holy Spirit was already IN HIM? Any scriptures?
Why deny the Jordan anointing?
Young’s Literal Translation
Luke 1:35 And the messenger answering said to her, ‘The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee, therefore also the holy-begotten thing shall be called Son of God;
New American Standard Bible
Luke 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 1:35 (Bible Hub) And answering the angel said unto her spirit holy will come upon you and power of most high will overshadow you therefore also the being born holy will be called son of God.
Me: Christ was born holy because he was conceived holy by the holy spirit. When we are baptized with the spirit, we too are called the sons of God. Christ would not be called the son of God without the holy spirit.
Now, tell me, are there any scriptures saying that the Messiah received the holy spirit at Jordon? There is not any, not one.
Matt 1:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Me: It is Christ that baptizes with the holy spirit, not John. The baptism of John was one of repentance. The holy spirit rested upon the Messiah at Jordon. It did not baptize Christ in his own death that didn’t happen yet. It identified the Messiah to John. John said you should baptize me, not I baptize you. But this did not happen until Pentecost. I can see why you insist that water baptism saves you. It is the baptism of the holy spirit that saves you. Water baptism belongs between repentance and the baptism of the holy spirit.
Isa 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Me: This is a continuous rest, not a one time baptism.
John 1:14 And the Word (joined) flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Me: I have shown many times that the Word joined flesh and not was made flesh. Therefore, the Word in the flesh must include the holy spirit inside the Word. Christ was the only begotten of the father, not John the baptize.
You: John was conceived in Elizabeth and the same word is used for the conception of the man, Jesus, in Mary.
But you say the conception of Jesus was different?
Me: The same word “holy” that is used in Luke 1:15 for John the Baptist is the same word “holy” used for Christ at his conception in Luke 1:35. I believe John the Baptist was filled with the holy spirit “from” the womb and not “in” the womb.
1537. ek or ex
ek or ex: from, from out of
Original Word: ἐκ, ἐξ
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: ek or ex
Phonetic Spelling: (ek)
Definition: from, from out of
Usage: from out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards.November 16, 2018 at 10:48 pm #835562
You: TC….You said being anointed with the holy spirit did not mean Jesus did not already have the spirit “in” him.
You have it completely backwards, GOD SPIRIT WAS “ON” HIM, WATCHING OVER HIM FROM THE START, BUT CAME TO BE “IN” HIM AT THE ANOINTING BY JOHN THE BAPTIST. Thats when the word came to be “in” the flesh, the flesh man Jesus.
Me: see my above response to Nick. The Word of God was in Christ and thus so was the holy spirit. The Messiah is the manifestation of God through the Word. The spirit of God was upon Christ from Jordan and probably forever.
You: THE SAME APPLIES TO US, GOD uses his spirit to draw us to JESUS, but after we are baptized, he comes to live “in” us.
Me: True, but Christ did not need to be baptized by John. John the Baptist needed to be baptized by Christ after Pentecost.
Luke 3 16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire::
Me: John did not baptize anyone with the holy spirit. His was the baptism of water and repentance
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Me: Was Christ baptized into his own death at Jordan before he died? You say yes. I say nuts.
You: Trying so desperately to make Jesus appear different then us, is the very work of the servants of satan. Satan wants us to believe we are different and that we can not “come to the measure and full stature of Christ Jesus”. Is that not also what you preach?
Me: No, that is what you preach that I say. You twist what I say.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Get it! Christ was making reconciliation that we become like him. When we become like him, he becomes like us to the point of perfection. If you take Heb 2:17 at how you understand it, then Christ would become like us with sin. We know he never had sin. But when he reconciles us to himself, our sins are cleanest and we become like him and thus he becomes like us.
You: Also the site you ask us to view is a trinitarian site, hardy a site to go for the truth . God is spirit he can live in anyone he chooses to, why do you think it say “that God may be in all and through all”. Bottom line is you are trying desperately to make Jesus appear different then his brother and sisters. Thats exactly what Satan wants you to do. 2 Ths 2 explains to clearly, “to those who have ears to hear and eyes to see”.
1 Thes 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good..
This means to hold the truth in esteem and cast off what is not true. no matter where it comes from. This I have done. Yes, the author is a Trinitarian but holds more truth than you do in regards to understanding Christ with the scriptures I quoted from him. You are like a Pharisee thinking because you don’t believe in the trinity, everyone who does has 100% untruth and you have the truth. Yea, right.
You: Jodi has answered your questions clearly and accurately, she present scripture truthfully and honestly, she does not act as a prema donna. you on the other hand seem favor trinitarian teachers and concepts.
Me: You are a liar, and twist what I say and what the bible says.
Please answer the below which you and your Guru have not answered but avoided.
1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thes 4:16-17 with 2 Cor 12:2-3, Phil 1:22 and 2 Cor 5:8 and show no contradictions. then I would like to discuss this with you. Taking all the scripture that pertains to the subject we are addressing is how we understand the bible. You have not really even given cursory attention to 2 Cor 12:2-3, Phil 1:22 and 2 Cor 5:8.
I have constantly tried to get you to address this, but you have avoided 2 Cor 12:2-3, Phil 1:22 and 2 Cor 5:8 like the plague. You come back later, after a lapse of time, and do not address this. Maybe you think we have forgotten about it?
Also: 2 Cor 5:1November 17, 2018 at 2:54 am #835563AnthonyParticipant
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Your always trying to make out that Jesus is just like us. He has been perfected through suffering you haven’t, and won’t be till after the resurrection. Matter of fact He was perfect from birth without sin from start to finish and still is. Are you? Can you walk on water yet?He can. Can you raise the dead yet? He can. Can you overcome each and everything? He can. Can you claim The nature of God prior of being saved? Jesus can.can you say your the one that gave us The Word of God? He can. Your thinking doesn’t even make sense. Gene your a false teacher, Ant- Christ, all over you. I can’t even say God bless and Amen to you that’s just another way of saying I agree with you, rebuke this spirit and accept The real Jesus into your life repentance is your only way out. I’ll pray the Father will draw you.
LaterNovember 17, 2018 at 5:08 am #835565GeneBalthropParticipant
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Anthony…….Your very first statement show you are not connected with Jesus as the anointed one of God, You make him completely different then us, by the way Jesus was not the only one who walked on water, Peter did to, his was not the only one that God raised the dead either, PAUL, PETER, AND OTHERS HAVE TOO. Jesus was not the only one who cast out demons, even the Pharisies did it. God has granted many merciless to others as well , not only Jesus, Jesus even said himself, that who ever believed on him , greater works then what he did, they could do.
But you words prove my point, you have removed Jesus from your own personal likeness of him. You then cannot say as he was so are we, in this world now can you. You have made Jesus you idol, who you worship, as another God or demigod some kind, That makes you an “IDOLATER”. We bow to Jesus to the glory “of God”, you bow to Jesus to the glory of Jesus, you see Jesus as a God, we see Jesus as a man who God the Father was and is “IN”. WE see JESUS AS AN ORDINARY HUMAN BEING WHO GOD PERFECTED AND SPOKE TO US “THROUGH”, whow learned obedience by the thinges he suffered, You worship him and believe Jesus did everything on his own, we believe GOD WAS “IN” HIM DOING THE WORKS, Just as Jesus said . Anthony remember what John said , “little childern keep yourselves from idols”.
Anthony are you one of those mentioned in 2ths2 who have turned the only man “now” who sits in the temple of God , into a God? helping cause the “IMAGE” of him to be worshiped as a God? , are you part of the “LIE” being proclaimed about Jesus?.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..geneNovember 17, 2018 at 5:45 am #835566AnthonyParticipant
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You said: Anthony…….Your very first statement show you are not connected with Jesus as the anointed one of God, You make him completely different then us, by the way Jesus was not the only one who walked on water, Peter did to,
Gene He is different then us. You try to reverse everything anyone say. What about Peter:
But the boat was already [m]a long distance from the land, [n]battered by the waves; for the wind was [o]contrary. 25 And in the [p]fourth watch of the night He came to them, walking on the sea. 26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out [q]in fear. 27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, “Take courage, it is I; do not be afraid.”
28 Peter said to Him, “Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water.” 29 And He said, “Come!” And Peter got out of the boat, and walked on the water and came toward Jesus.30 But seeing the wind, he became frightened, and beginning to sink, he cried out, “Lord, save me!” 31 Immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and took hold of him, and *said to him, “You of little faith, why did you doubt?” 32 When they got into the boat, the wind stopped. 33 And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “You are certainly God’s Son!” this is what you have to do Gene “Lord save me”
LaterNovember 17, 2018 at 6:09 am #835567
Yes. And do you have any scriptures that say the embryo or the infant was already anointed?
Why deny the Spirit coming onto him at the Jordan?
Tradition rules?November 17, 2018 at 6:19 am #835568
The apostles did miracles, raised the dead and Peter walked on water and you accept that they were ordinary men.
Why can you not accept that the anointed Jesus also did these things by the power of the Spirit?
He did none of these things before the Spirit rested on him at the Jordan did he?
Why do you prefer to worship man rather than the Almighty Creator?.November 17, 2018 at 7:03 am #835571GeneBalthropParticipant
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Anthony……Your not seening God the Father “IN”, THE “MAN” JESUS. It was God the Father doing all the mericals JESUS was the “MAN” God the Father was working through, just as MOSES ALSO WAS THE “MAN” God the Father was working through, you seem to not understand that it is GOD THE FATHER “IN” US that works to will and do of “HIS” good pleasure, the exact same thing applies to JESUS our lord. If you “seperate” yourself from the exactness of JESUS, how can you ever think you can be exactly like him. You have removed yourself from relating to him on a human level.
You are pushing Jesus away from yourself, by seperating him from yourself, and as a result you are unable to properly relate with him, that is exactly what Satan wants you to do, move Jesus away and therefore , do not believe you can “overcome sin” exactly as he did, by FAITH IN GOD THE FATHER. You have replaced the “man” Jesus and made him your God. 2 Ths 2. You have bought into that “LIE” mentioned there “that is after the working of Satan”. All who do that are “IDOLATERS ” and therefore not excepted by God the Father. Repent brother
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
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