The Ordinary Jesus Brigade

This topic contains 1,626 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  Anthony 47 minutes ago.

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  • #835477
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
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    Hi All,

    New American Standard Bible
    John 1:14 And the Word (3056. logos) became (1096. ginomai) flesh (4561. sarx) and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    Me: Click on the link below. Then click on 3056 above “word” and 1096 above “became” and 4561 above “flesh”.

    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/1-14.htm
    3056. logos

    NASB Translation
    account (7), account* (1), accounting (2), accounts (2), answer (1), appearance (1), complaint (1), exhortation* (1), have to do (1), instruction (1), length* (1), matter (4), matters (1), message (10), news (3), preaching (1), question (2), reason (2), reasonable (1), remark (1), report (1), said (1), say (1), saying (4), sayings (1), speaker (1), speech (10), statement (18), story (1), talk (1), teaching (2), thing (2), things (1), utterance (2), what he says (1), what* (1), word (179), words (61).

    1096. ginomai

    NASB Translation
    accomplished (1), appeared (3), arise (1), arises (2), arose (6), arrived (3), became (53), become (83), becomes (8), becoming (2), been (12), been brought (1), been done (1), been made (2), been…came (1), began (1), behaved (1), being (2), come into being (1), being carried (1), being done (2), being made (2), born (5), breaking* (1), came (45), came into being (2), came to pass (2), come (16), comes (1), comes to pass (1), coming (1), dawn (1), decided* (1), developing (1), done (20), drawing (1), during (1), elapsed (1), existed* (1), falling (1), feeling (1), fell (6), finished (1), followed (1), formed (3), found (2), get (4), give (1), got (1), granted (1), grown* (1), had (1), happen (6), happened (46), happening (5), happens (3), has (3), join* (1), joined (3), made (15), occur (3), occurred (18), performed (4), prove (7), proved (6), proving (1), put (1), reached (2), realized (1), results (2), show (1), spent (1), split (1), spoken (1), starting (1), take place (16), taken (2), taken place (5), takes place (1), taking place (3), there arose (1), thundered* (1), took place (7), turned (1), turns (3), would (1).

    Me: So the speaker or appearance joined or appeared as flesh or a man.

    4561. sarx

    NASB Translation
    bodily (1), bodily condition (1), body (2), earth (1), earthly (1), fellow countrymen (1), flesh (129), fleshly (4), life (3), man (1), mankind (1), nation (1), personally (1)

    Me: The seed of an entity is the impetus that a body and mind grow from. The human mind of the seed of David grew in its connection to the Word of God inside of the Messiah. The Messiah did not have a human spirit but solely the holy spirit (Eph 4:4).  The “only begotten” in John 1:14 has to be from his birth and not from the dead because “we saw his glory”. This is the glory of the terrestrial and not the celestial (1 Cor 15:40).

    We piut on Christ, not Christ puts on us.

    Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved (obligated) him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

    Me: This doesn’t necessarily mean that Christ was made according to our standards at conception and birth, for he had no sin from conception and birth. Thus he was obligated to become the first born of the dead so we could be born into him (1 Peter 1:23) and become sons of God (Col 1:13). Thus he became like the beings we were to become.

    When we are baptized with the holy spirit, we die with him and arise to a new life. We become the adopted sons of God through Christ. He is the only Son of God in John 1:14.

    Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,…

    Gal 1:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    #835478
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
    • Total replies 733

    Hi All,

    Judges 6:22 And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the LORD, Gideon said, Alas, O Lord GOD! for because I have seen an angel of the LORD face to face. 23 And the LORD said unto him,

    Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed…Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

    Duet 34:10 And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,

    Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

    Me: Whatever body the LORD acquires, we are to worship the LORD wholly, that is in his spirit and in body. We worship the entire LORD. If we worship Christ, we worship the father.

    #835479
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
    • Total replies 733

    Hi All,

    Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

    Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

    Me: John knew he should only worship God. Apparently, he saw the angels two times and though that it was the angel of the Lord, who is the expression or Word of God, and thus is God.  It must have been an overwhelming experience.

    Isa 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

    Me: Bottom line, The father and his son together are God Almighty. The heart and mind of the seed of David is now embedded in the spirit of God. Christ came on the scene 2,000 years ago. Christ was in the heart or bosom of God as if he always existed, and so he did in the Father’s reality.

    #835480
     Jodi 
    Participant
    • Topics started 10
    • Total replies 1,545

    Hi t8,

    YOU:But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid! For behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people: 11Today in the City of David a Savior has been born to you. He is Christ the Lord! And this will be a sign to you:

    Nick argues with this angel it seems.

    ME: No arguing is being done with the angel t8 not by Nick, Gene, or myself. You on the other hand treat the angel as if he is stupid of all prophecy, and we treat the angel as if he is a messenger of God in full knowledge of prophecy. 

    The angel said that he brings good news of great joy THAT WILL BE FOR ALL the people.

    The people of the City of David were promised through the prophets a savior from the City of David, one who would be a servant chosen from among the people, one elected that God would give His Spirit to, CALLING him to fulfill all righteousness, one who by his wounds we would be healed, one who would be a SAVIOR through his death. 

    t8 the prophecy was for a human servant of the seed of David to be anointed and sent out into the world to preach, heal, set captives free and to die saving us from our sins. The angel spoke declaring that this child was the person of the prophecy, that the person who by that prophecy is the savior, and that savior is the Christ and master. The savior is Christ the master. 

    We are NOT saved by the birth of Jesus, but by his death. 

    t8 was this angel declaring something NEW, that we are SAVED by the birth of Jesus?? Or was the angel declaring the child was the child of prophecy who would be our savior through his death? The infant was the person of prophecy thus he would fulfill prophecy by becoming the Christ, our master, and our savior. 

    t8, compare Isaiah 42 with the words of Jesus in Matthew 3, a SERVANT who God delighted in, was well pleased with, would be given God’s Spirit and CALLED to righteousness and he would be the light for the people sent out to speak God’s words with authority, he would heal, he would set captives free, Jesus said to John that he had to be baptized in order to fulfill all righteousness and then upon being baptized he was given the Spirit of God without measure. After this baptism we see exactly the prophets words being fulfilled Jesus the servant of God who God was well pleased with, anointed him making him the CHRIST, and His Son. We are told at his birth that he WOULD BE CALLED the Son of God, he WOULD BE great and when Jesus is sent out into the world after his anointing that is when people called him the son of David, the Christ, the Son of God. God had told David that of his son He would be a father to, begetting him on a certain day. The servant in Isaiah is the son of David that God made into his son through an anointing, and then God sent this son out into the world.

    Jesus was BORN with the full measure of the Spirit and power when the Spirit descended like a dove upon him, MADE the anointed the Christ, the Son of God. God sent his ONLY begotten into the world to die for our sins. The bread of life that came down from heaven was the FLESH of Jesus, not the flesh of the infant, but the flesh of a servant that Jesus said to John had to BE BAPTIZED to FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS. Jesus fulfilled ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS through learning OBEDIENCE by that which he suffered, going to the cross following the will of God perfectly. 

    Just think on that t8. Apply the prophecies and Jesus’s own words to that which the angel spoke, don’t treat the angel like he is stupid of prophecy and not speaking from full knowledge of it. In verse 10 he is speaking of prophecy, of the promise God gave to Abraham, in verse 11 he is also speaking out of prophecy. Just think on it t8, in order to fulfill ALL righteousness Jesus says he had to be baptized, and how in Isaiah 42 the Spirit would be given to the servant CALLING him to righteousness where he would then be a light for the people. Jesus quotes Isaiah and says that is WHEN he is SENT out into the world. God sent his “only begotten Son” to die for us. Jesus was the servant we are told in Isaiah 42 who God would NOT GIVE His GLORY to another, Jesus we know is the ONLY human given God’s Spirit without measure, he is the only human who God would hold his hand and keep him for a light to the people, fulfilling the promises given to Abraham. Abraham’s seed we are told directly is the Christ, the anointed, one not of the will of man, but of God’s will according to a promise. That PROMISE we can read clearly in Isaiah 42 and apply it directly to the word’s of the angel.

    t8 can you apply the word of God given to us by Isaiah to the words of the angel? 

    #835481
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,979

    Hi TC,

    Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

    To whit God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself.

    Discern the Son from the Father that begat him, and come out of her.

    #835482
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
    • Total replies 733

    Nick,

    I just did.  Learn how to read.  They are different and yet they are one.

    John 10:30  I and my Father are one.

    John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.

    Me: God was in Christ and Christ was in God, not just God was in Christ.  Not a well thought out rendering by you.

    #835483
     Anthony 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 793

    Hi Gene, Jodi

    You make out that David was Jesus’s Father, God is His Father He as no biological connection to David what so ever. JESUS CHRIST is David’s Lord and God, He is the Messiah , prophet, Priest, and King .

    I don’t deny Jesus Christ took on the form of man to die for the sins of the whole world.  It’s you that deny the He was divine. If He was just a man that  had human parents He wouldn’t be able to die for the sins of the whole world. He was baptised without sin.  We are baptized with sin. That’s a real man. Jesus’s  has a Holy, Righteous nature. He’s different then just a man like me and you.

    Your teaching false doctrine. Simple

    God bless

    #835484
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,979

    Hi TC,

    To hear Jesus Christ is to hear the Father in him.

    To see Jesus Christ is to see the Father at work in him.

    But Jesus Christ was not his own father, but he is the Son of God.

    #835485
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,979

    Hi Anthony,

    You do not believe scripture when it says that Jesus is the Son of David?

    Let your mind be enlarged by truth.

    #835486
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,979

    Hi Anthony,

    Yes Jesus Christ is not divine.

    He is the Son of God.

     

    You offer strange food.

    #835489
     Dig4truth 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 454

    Anthony: “It couldn’t be clearer than it is here: Jesus’ highly educated listeners understood His claim of deity. They only had two possible responses: to humble themselves and bow before Him as the Magi and the disciples had done earlier, or reject His claim and judge Him as a blasphemer. Unfortunately they chose the latter option. But notice that Jesus doesn’t argue with their accusation, because it was accurate. He really was claiming to be God!”

    Anthony, great post! I could have quoted it all but I wanted to deal with several others also.

     

    Truthcomber: “God was in Christ and Christ was in God, not just God was in Christ. Not a well thought out rendering by you.”

    Excellent point! How did I miss that!?

     

     

    Jodi: “We are NOT saved by the birth of Jesus, but by his death.”

     

    I’m not sure that makes a whole lot of sense. Really it was the resurrection. If Yeshua was never born He could not have died for our sins and rose with power and authority. And if that were not enough why try to make the miraculous birth of the Messiah as a non-event?

     

     

    Nick: “Yes Jesus Christ is not divine. He is the Son of God.”

     

    Nick, if anyone has a son is he not the same as the father?  Does a bear have eagles? Does a dog have kittens? Does a rhinoceros have butterflies? (Perhaps when he posts here!)

    The point being is when a being has an offspring it is the same being as the parent. So by saying that Yeshua is a Son of God but not God you are contradicting the very nature that God has established.

     

     

    Let’s not be troubled by the heretics. Identify them and avoid their contamination. Pray for them if you feel led to do so. I wonder if they know exactly what they’re doing. This brings a chill to me. I know evil exists but to face it is a whole other experience. Yeshua is LORD. Stand strong in the faith! Nuff said.

    #835491
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,979

    Hi Dig4,

    So gods beget gods?

    Who are you following?

    1cor 8

    For us there is one God, The Father,…and one Lord, Jesus Christ.

     

     

    #835492
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,979

    Hi Dig4,

    Rom 8.14

    For all those who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

    1jn 2.2

    Beloved, now we are children of God..

     

    Are you a god too?

    #835498
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,979

    Hi Dig4,

    Jesus Christ is lord of all.

    He returned to his Father and his God.

     

    But you want to make him his own and our God too?

    You insult God to make Him a man. Come out of her lest you suffer for her sins.

    #835499
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 42
    • Total replies 16,607

    Anthony, there are may scriptures that prove Jesus was a decent of king David, infact JESUS HIMSELF SAID HE WAS.  Face the truth you simply do not believe scriptures , you are forcing scriptures to say what infact they do not say.

    The problem here is when God has sent a deluding spirit into a man inorder to believe  a “LIE”  , it is impossible that person to understand the truth.  They simply will not change, no matter how much truth is clearly explained to them, they simply are unable to get it.

    “UNLESS THE LORD SHALL BUILD THE HOUSE, THE WEARY BUILDERS TOIL IN VAIN,  UNLESS THE LORD’S IS THE CITIES SHIELD, THE GUARDS MAINTAIN A UNLESS WATCH”.

    IF THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH ISN’T IN A PERSON, THERE IS NO WAY THEY CAN UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH, If everyone here had the spirit of the truth in them we would all be in agreement on most of all scriptures. But many do not have eyes to see nor ears to hear, for wide is the way that leads to destruction and “MANY” go there in threat, but narrow is the gate and straight is the way that leads to life, and “FEW” THERE BE THAT FIND IT.

     

    Please and love to you and yours. ………gene

     

    #835500
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
    • Total replies 733

    My prior post:

    I just did. Learn how to read. They are different and yet they are one.
    John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

    John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.

    You:
    To hear Jesus Christ is to hear the Father in him.

    Me: I hope you are writing this because you agree to what I had said just above The Messiah is the father revealed in sight and in speech. Christ just said in John 14:7-11 that you can believe that he is the visible and audible expression of God. This faith and revelation is primary. Then he qualified this by saying his works or words that he speaks testify that the father speaks through him.

    You:
    To see Jesus Christ is to see the Father at work in him.

    Me:

    New American Standard Bible

    John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him..

    New American Standard Bible

    1 Tim 6:16 who (the father) alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amien.

    Me: To see and hear the Messiah is to see and hear God almighty, for our heavenly father  is in invisible in sight and in speech. Christ’s works and words testify to this fact.

    Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    You: But Jesus Christ was not his own father, but he is the Son of God.

    Me: Quote me where I said or indicated or implied ever that Christ was his own Father.  Are you your own father?  I don’t know, I haven’t seen you yet.  But I bet not.

    #835501
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
    • Total replies 733

    Oh, I forgot in my prior post:

    Hi Nick,

    #835502
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,979

    Hi TC,

    The Son lives in spiritual unity with the Father.

    In him we can share that spiritual unity.

    #835531
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
    • Total replies 733

    Hi All,

     

    Luke 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid…11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. 13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying…

    Me: Can the angel of the Lord be the Word of God and in the babe in the manger at the same time. Can the Word manifest himself in more than one location. Remember that no one has heard or seen God at any time except through his word or image of himself. Another example of this:

    Matt 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

    Me: The Word as God was inside of Christ and spoke to him from heaven at the same time. Like we have a subconscious mind and a conscious mind, God and his Word are two aspects of the same person.

    https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_26.cfm

    Me: Although the author of the above link is a Trinitarian, he has some very good points to contribute to our discussion.

    1 Thes 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

    1. Identified With God

    In some contexts, the angel of the LORD is identified with God.

    2. Power To Give Life

    The angel of the LORD is said to have power to give life (Genesis 16:10). Only God has this power.

    3. All-Knowing

    The quality of omniscience, or knowing everything, is attributed to the angel of the LORD (Genesis 16:13; Exodus 3:7).

    4. Judge The Earth

    The angel of the LORD is called the “Judge of all the earth” (Genesis 18:25). This is a title that belongs to God alone.

    5. Forgive Sin

    The Bible says that only God can forgive sin.

    I, I am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins (Isaiah 43:25).

    Yet the angel of the LORD had authority to forgive sins (Exodus 23:21).

    6. Receive Worship

    Worship belongs to God and Him alone. Yet the angel of the LORD was worshipped by Moses and Joshua.

    God In Human Flesh

    Other Occasions

    Though the angel of the LORD is sometimes identified with the LORD Himself, there are other times when they are distinguished. Therefore we can conclude that on some occasions the angel of the LORD was God Himself, while at other times he was merely a messenger sent from the LORD.

    #835532
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
    • Total replies 733

    Hi All,

     

     

    God does not give his glory to anther.

    Isa 7:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    Me: Yet the Word had it.

    John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    Me: And the Word has it, an integral part of the lamb. Therefore, the lamb has it.  The lamb has existed for approximately 2,000 years now.  The Word, and integral and aspect of God has existed as God from eternity.

    Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple (made with hands)  therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

    Me: Therefore we are the building blocks of the temple made without hands are part of the glory.

    John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

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