The Ordinary Jesus Brigade

[Jodi]

Hi Ed J,

If two people are going to agree or disagree on whether or not free will exists, one must define “free will”.

Could you give us a definition of free will?

For me to believe that free will exists for a mortal human, I would have to be convinced that there are absolutely no factors outside of a persons control that affect a person’s choices.

 

 

[Ed J]

Hi Ed J,

Could you give us a definition of free will?For me
to believe that free will exists for a mortal human, I would have to be convinced that
there are absolutely no factors outside of a persons control that affect a person’s choices.

Hi Jodi,

1. the ability to act and make choices independent of any outside influence (Link)
2. the ability to decide what to do independently of any outside influence (Link)

[Ed J]

Hi Ed J,

If two people are going to agree or disagree on whether or not free will exists, one must define “free will”.

Hi Jodi, that is an OXYMORON

Having the ability to decide on whether or not free will exists is proof that “Free Will” exists

[Ed J]

Gene: did an angel say “shall be called”
Ed: “Yes”

Ed: Are you saying Jesus was not The Son of God”at his conception? “Yes” or “no” ?

Gene please answer

Quit your dodging! I answered your question, now you answer mine

[Proclaimer]

Free will isn’t defined by zero factors outside of your control. It is obvious that I cannot travel back in time if I choose to do so for example. Free will is being able to choose among the available options.

For example, I can choose to steal my next meal, cook it, or buy it. I make that decision based on my priorities and moral character. I can also overall choose to live for the flesh or for the Spirit. I can choose to reply to a post on Heaven Net today or do something else.

In short, you are free to choose among the options. Things that are impossible have little to do with free will and God always provides a way to do his will if we are led by the Spirit.

Ultimately, we will choose that which we want. Do we want pleasure more than God’s way or do we want to be led by the Spirit over fulfilling the lusts of the flesh.

Of course we will fail many times, but we are free to repent and ask for forgiveness. Our free will enables us to repent and ask for forgiveness. If you have no free will, then you cannot repent and ask for forgiveness.

[carmel]

Do you want to descuss anyone of them,  I can easely explain them to you.

Gene, What I meant is that the fact that one changes his message, it is not always as you said that

HE IS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH.

Now I myself asked you:

Read hereunder and explain why Jesus changed His teaching,

Now you opted to explain one in particular. But since you didn’t  explain it all, here the remaining of that particular scripture, and explain:

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—

yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

OK! Gene, explain the above and tell me ARE YOU READY TO HATE YOUR FATHER, MOTHER, WIFE, and CHILDREN:

IN THE WAY JESUS MEANT?  

IN HIS MYSTERIOUS HIDDEN TEACHING!  WEll declared by Jesus in

 

Matthew 13:11 Who answered and said to them: Because to you it is given to know

the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven:

but to them it is not given. 

 

Also, if you are ready to have a go please DO SO and start with the first one! but be aware 

THAT THERE ARE SOME MYSTERIOUS HIDDEN TEACHING WHICH YOU ARE NOT VERY FAMILIAR WITH, SINCE 

YOU PRACTICE PLAIN CLEAR ENGLISH!

 

THE BALL IS AT YOUR FEET

 

ALL FOR THE LOVE OF

TRUTH 

and that truth is

JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD GOD MAN!

 

Peace and love Jesus Christ

[GeneBalthrop]

Carmel…..JESUS NEVER CHANGED HIS MESSAGE, you are simple not perceiving what he is saying peoperly brother. That is my point to you. And others.

Peace and love to you and yours……..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

T8…..wrong if our will themselves are truly free, then there would be no “outside” factors.  Remember we are not talking about a will being under a influence, when we say the will is “free” ,  there exist no such thing as a “freewill”, in the sence of the will “itself” being free, our wills c are being held captive by what is most influencing them. 

That being said, do we have freedom from God to excercise our influenced will, yes we do.  But the term freewill is an “OXYMORON” , because no such thing exists, or it simply would not be a will. Right? 

We are “caused ” to  chose the things of God by the Spirit he has given us, it is and was all a matter of God the Fathers will, not ours that saves us. 

Therefore it is “God that works in us “both” to “will” and do of “his” good pleasure”, and again, “it is not of him that “wills”, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows “mercy”. 

For we are save by “GRACE and that not of ourselves m it is a gift from GOD”. 

Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

 

 

[GeneBalthrop]

Anthony, I believe Jesus was born of the flesh as the root and offspring of King David, I also believe he was a ordinary human being just like we are at birth, I believe he was born “again” at the Jordan river  as a “spritual” son of God. 

I believe just as he  was born again, so must we be,  he was born a flesh and blood human, exactly as we are, he was born “again” from above “exactly” as we must be. 

I do not “seperate” Jesus from myself by making he to appear different, as you do,  I do not worship him as “my God as you do,  but I do bow and “honour” him as the head of the household of GOD, I see him as my older brother, who “our” Father, his and mine has “greately” honored and glorified and give him  great authority, I do see him as my lord, (adoni) ,but not my God. 

Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Carmel…..I explained that to you already,  please notice Jesus did not say to “hate” the “person”, he said to hate their lives aand there own “lives” also. That is not talking about hating the “person”. We are to love the “person, even if we hate the life the lives”  Get it brother?  remember, we are to love our enimies, do good to them who despitfully use you, and say all manor of things about you.

Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Edj…..”no” JESUS WAS NOT THE SON Of GOD AT HIS BIRTH.  Scripture say that holy ( set apart) “thing” in you   “SHALL” be called the Son gof God”. Jesus was born of the root and offspring of King David, just as he said he was. My question to you then,  did Jesus say “I “am”,  the root and offspring of king David?  Now if he truly was of the root and offspring of DAVID,  the was he a human being?  Jesus became a son of God after he was baptized and anointed with the spirit, which is the (seed) of God. The same as we must be, remember Edj….flesh begets flesh, spirit begets spirit. You must be born again.  ‘Now if the spirit of him who raised Christ Jesus from the dead dwell in you , he will also quicken (bring to life) you mortal (dead)  “body” .

Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

 

[Ed J]

Ed: Are you saying
Jesus was not The Son of God”at his conception? “Yes” or “no” ?

Edj…..”no” JESUS WAS NOT THE SON Of GOD AT HIS BIRTH

Hi Gene,

Thank you!
Was it really that hard to respond?

You know I asked YOU this question 4 times before you FINALLY answered it.
Well I’m at least Glad you have “Free Will” enough to answer my questions.

[Ed J]

Edj….flesh begets flesh, spirit begets spirit.

Hi Gene,

Here is my next question:

Who was Jesus flesh birth Father?

1 The HolySpirit
2 Joseph
3 David
4 someone else ???

[Jodi]

Good Morning Ed J,

YOU:

Hi Jodi,

1. the ability to act and make choices independent of any outside influence (Link)
2. the ability to decide what to do independently of any outside influence (Link)

ME: Ed J,  we need to differentiate between a person being able to make their own choices, where we know that a person makes a choice themselves, someone is not making that choice for them, between when a person does make their choice that choice they make is not independent of factors that have been outside of that person’s control.

Definitions 1 and 2 tell you directly that free will does not exist, it is absolutely impossible for someone to commit an act or make a choice that is independent of influences. If you are a 10 year old or a 30 year old or 60 year old when you make a choice or act upon something such comes from your “life experiences”, your “developed character”, even your individual genetic makeup plays a factor. Most assuredly as well, the fact that God made all of Adam’s descendants to have weak mortal flesh that must serve itself in order to live, makes free will impossible.

Gene spoke exactly right, “We are “caused ” to chose the things of God by the Spirit he has given us, it is and was all a matter of God the Fathers will, not ours that saves us.”

Gene also used this passage,

Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul goes on to give us even more light on this subject,

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. 20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

By our very nature that God brought mankind to have through the punishment given to Adam and all his descendants we live after the flesh, like all other creatures on earth. By God’s grace, Him giving us the fruits of His Spirit we become wise like Paul, knowing that in our flesh nothing is good, it is God’s Spirit working in us that any good fruit can come.  One who “mortifies the deeds of their body” has life, of which that comes through God’s Spirit working in us. We groan within ourselves waiting for the bondage to be lifted, where we no longer by our very nature have to serve our flesh in order to live, we hope for the day that we are no longer of weak flesh but are raised in corruptible with power and glory, where we can live free from all temptation able to serve God.

The only begotten Son of the Father, Jesus who had been filled with all grace and truth without measure, was able to condemn sin in the flesh. He could do nothing of himself, Jesus condemned sin in the flesh becoming our lamb without spot or blemish through God’s Spirit working in a man.

You see Ed J, as God subjected us not by our choice, to be born into weak mortal flesh that we must serve in order to live, of which God also gave man the desire to live and gave man a fear of death, we are also subjected not by our choice but by His will to become a full heir of His Spirit, being raised as a joint heir with Jesus who was raised no longer having weak mortal flesh, he was raised just as Paul describes for us in 1 Corinthians 15.

We thank God through Jesus the ANOINTED, the MAN who had received God’s Spirit without measure, a man where God gives us proof of what His anointing Spirit can cause in a man.

Before time on earth began God knew, He planned that by one man sin and death would come and by another righteousness and life. Before time began God planned to anoint David and to anoint His offspring, He had planned to call David’s son into righteousness, leading him fully by His Spirit, making Him a Son. He promised to make this son of David a firstborn Son. Such is why we too are promised to be Sons of God as he is a Son of God, a joint heir of God’s Spirit. 

 

[Ed J]

our wills c are being held captive by what is most influencing them.

Hi Gene,

Why do people in muslim countries become Christian,
when their will is being held captive by islam
as islam is “influencing them the most”?

____________
God bless
Ed J

[Ed J]

(1) Definitions 1 and 2 tell you directly that free will does not exist,
(2)it is absolutely impossible for someone to commit an act or make a choice that is independent of influences.

Hi Jodi,

1) Not so

2) Oh yea, I can make a phone call: calling someone without them influencing me to do so.
How do you account for that?

[Ed J]

Hi Jodi,

If you believe there is no such thing as “Free Will”…
I, of my own “Free Will”, give you a bible verse that you need to ‘smudge out’ of your bible:

“I make a decree,
that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm,
which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem,
go with thee.” (Ezra 7:13)

______________
God bless
Ed J

[Proclaimer]

Sin has influence and so does the Spirit of God. We freely choose between them.

Your idea that free will is defined by zero influence is silly. Further, influence does not mean we cannot choose freely.

For argument sake, say I am hungry and feel like a Big Mac, but I also want to lose weight. Well I’m still free to choose despite my appetite and desire to lose weight.

I feel like some of you guys are too predicable. You simply take the opposite view of the mainstream in everything despite the mainstream view sometimes being correct.

[Proclaimer]

You know I asked YOU this question 4 times before you FINALLY answered it.
Well I’m at least Glad you have “Free Will” enough to answer my questions.

You forced him to answer by influencing him or something. Lol. His free will argument is silly in my view, but then this foolishness is influencing me toward that view. So I’m not free to assess this and come to that conclusion. Thus he cannot complain, nor can he try to change my mind if I’m not free to see otherwise. Dumb on so many levels. Further, he preaches no free will, but invokes our ability to choose by trying to convince us otherwise.

[carmel]

YOU : WOW, God’s will made true in the flesh of Jesus!!

Jodi, in the above you simply declared a statement which entirely contradicts you and YOUR BELIEF! The fact that you are so amazed that you said:

WOW!

Isaiah 6:9 And he said: Go, and thou shall say to this people:

HEARING, HEAR AND UNDERSTAND NOT: and

SEE THE VISION, AND KNOW IT NOT.

 

The problem with you Jodi and Gene, is

PRECISELY THE FLESH SUBSTANCE OF JESUS, which is

“THE WORD” MADE FLESH!

The only reason that John wrote and used the term “MADE” FLESH,

BORN OF A WOMAN YES,

but BORN OF FLESH, or BORN IN FLESH NO!

That flesh Jodi,

IS ALL HEAVENLY! ALL DIVINE!

DESPITE it is MADE of the seed of David. Again

NOT BORN of the seed,

God is Spirit and He sent His Son

Not through the process in any way of this satanic world! Otherwise, God would have been subject to Satan. Which is PURE MADNESS.

Jesus came into this world in a UNIQUE divine flesh, with a UNIQUE divine process. By which process He redeemed humanity’s FLESH!

A genuine product of the Holy Ghost.

AS THE ACTUAL LIGHT of the world!

You and Gene must get it into your CARNAL blocked MIND that Jesus was

NOT INTERMINGLED WITH THE CARNAL SEED OF DAVID AS SUCH. The fact that He never had a human father, OF SATANIC EARTH.

THUS, GOD’S WILL MADE TRUE IN THE FLESH OF JESUS WAS ENTIRELY

Furnished by the Father through the Holy Ghost.

The fact that Jesus FIRST and FOREMOST is

OF THE HOLY GHOST, attributed to the Son.

SPIRITUAL as much as FLESH.

Son of God and Son of Man.
YOUR belief Jodi and Gene, makes

GOD’S WILL which is SPIRITUAL intermingled with

Satan’s will WHICH IS FLESH.

You simply declare that

GOD IS NOT CAPABLE TO PRODUCE A FLESH BODY FOR HIS SON WITHOUT SATAN’S WILL INTERMINGLED IN ANY WAY IN IT. When scripture is as clear as crystal:

Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore, when he cometh into the world he saith: Sacrifice and oblation thou wouldest not:

BUT A BODY YOU HAVE FITTED TO ME.

Jodi and Gene, ARE YOU THAT BLIND that you cannot see the above?

6Holocausts for sin did not please thee.7Then said I: Behold I come: in the head of the book it is written of me:

That I should do

YOUR WILL, O GOD.

Got it, God the Father furnished Jesus, His Son, “THE WORD”, A SPIRIT. With

A DIVINE FLESH SUBSTANCE,

NOT TO KEEP FOR HIMSELF, but to

Give it as a ransom in EXCHANGE precisely for the

HUMAN SATANIC FLESH!

SIMPLY TO BE IT’S PROPRIETOR. Something which

HE COULDN’T DO unless first and foremost HE GIVES PROOF that

HIS FLESH and its process IS NOT SATANIC AT ALL. BUT

DIVINE! HEAVENLY! simply

MADE OUT OF GOD’S SPIRIT. THE HOLY GHOST.

IT IS THE SPIRIT THAT GIVES LIFE, the flesh counts for nothing

WHEN IT COMES TO GOD’S WILL.

God is a spirit, and all His work attributed to His divine process in “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man is entirely SPIRITUAL.

EVEN THE ACTUAL FLESH OF JESUS.

THE BREAD WHO CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN.

How on earth God could eradicate Satan’s WILL unless He furnishes the Messiah with

HIS OWN WILL throughout spiritual! God’s essence!

Jesus manifested Himself that He is also A SPIRIT on mount Tabor, despite

HE WAS HUMAN.

They tried to kill Jesus more than once BUT HE SIMPLY MOVED AWAY FROM THEIR GRIP. They simply could not get hold of Him.

Luke 4:29 And they rose up and thrust him out of the city: and they brought him to the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong. 30But he passing through the midst of them, went his way.

In the above, God knows how many were they, since they dragged him all the way out of the city, nevertheless, in the most crucial moment, when they were about to cast him down headlong,  they simply couldn’t have a grip on His body anymore,

The fact that Jesus declared in

John10:18 NO MAN TAKES IT AWAY FROM ME: but I lay it down of myself. And I have the power to lay it down: and I have the power to take it up again. This commandment have I received

OF MY FATHER

AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL: NO EARTHLY HUMAN BEING CAN DESTROY JESUS’ HEAVENLY HUMAN BODY, unless He allows them.

As proof that His DIVINE body is superior to the SATANIC human body! The Father would not allow it. SIMPLY because it is GOD’S SPIRIT.

Also  scriptures is more than clear that “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man as a spirit emptied Himself of His divine spirit, IN THE PROCESS OF CREATION: Thus, in order to redeem the entire human race, and furnish humanity with a NEW FLESH, He POURED His SPIRIT AND ENGRAFTED IT AS AN INFINITESIMAL SPIRIT IN ALL SOULS,

AS ETERNAL LIFE. Simply SLAIN…..FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD.Rev.13:8. I repeat AS ETERNAL LIFE!

Simply so when He comes back to life, He brings all humanity back to life with Him through that speck of spirit He left engrafted in all souls from the beginning of the world.

How on earth The WILL of God MADE TRUE IN the FLESH of Jesus, if according to you is OF EARTH, THE WILL OF SATAN!

Despite He was made of the Seed of  David. I repeat SPIRITUAL HIDDEN IN THE SPERM OF ALL THE GENEALOGY OF MARY FROM SETH.

SIMPLY MADNESS, STUPIDITY, ABSURD and God knows what!

 

2Corinthians 5:17 If then any be in Christ

A NEW CREATION, ( THE HUMAN PROCESS)  the old things are passed away.( THE SATANIC HUMAN PROCESS IS VOID)

BEHOLD ALL THINGS (the entire process of MAN,) is made new.( SINCE IT’S NEW, IT HAS NOTHING OF THE OLD, SATANIC)

18 BUT ALL THINGS are of God,

(IN JESUS CHRIST, GOD MAN, ALL DIVINE, NOTHING OF SATANIC EARTH, IN RELATION TO JESUS HUMAN FLESH SUBSTANCE, otherwise He would not be in the position to be LOADED with ALL THE EVIL, and humans are justified in Jesus)

who hath reconciled us to himself by

 CHRIST. and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.

19For God INDEED WAS IN CHRIST, reconciling the world to himself, not imputing to them their sins. And he hath placed in us the word of reconciliation.

20For Christ therefore we are ambassadors, God as it were exhorting by us, for Christ, we beseech you, be reconciled to God.

21Him, who knew no sin, (ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF SATANIC EARTH, the fact that HE RESISTED the full power of Satan, FROM THE AGE OF THIRTEEN UP TO BAPTISM AT  THE JORDAN RIVER, by which baptism, SATAN WAS REMOVED and was Locked in hell subject to JESUS, THE DIVINE MAN, THE SON OF GOD. Indicated by Jesus in

Matthew 12:29 Or how can anyone enter into the house of the strong, and rifle his goods, unless HE FIRST BIND THE STRONG? and then he will rifle his house.)

he hath made sin for us: ( HE AS A SPIRIT/MEDIATOR FUSED ONTO HIM ALL WHAT WAS SATANIC! Once Jesus resisted Satan’s entire power while He was on earth, IN HIS DIVINE FLESH, OK??? Nothing of earth, HE BECAME SUPERIOR to him, hence Satan’s entire work became futile, consequently, in the CURRENT PROCESS OF SALVATION, Satan is subject to Jesus’ SPIRITUAL verdict as JUDGE BOTH GOD and MAN.  HENCE, FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING, HUMANS WILL BE JUDGED ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT, NOT ACCORDING TO THE FLESH,

HENCE, THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE)

that WE MIGHT BE MADE THE JUSTICE OF GOD IN HIM.

Jesus, simply amalgamated in one substance GOD and the entire HUMAN RACE in Himself, Consequently:

GOD’S WILL WAS MADE TRUE IN THE FLESH OF JESUS   ALL HEAVENLY, ALL GODLY!

ALL IN “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN. JESUS’FLESH!

 

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

 

 

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