John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 19,661 through 19,680 (of 26,009 total)
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  • #850762
    Berean
    Participant

     

    But you didn’t answer the question. Will some of us become God by participating in the divine nature?

    The answer is NO
    MEN WILL ALWAYS REMAIN MEN
    WHAT GOD ASKS FOR IS SANCTIFICATION THROUGH THE CONTEMPLATION OF CHRIST WHICH IS A REFLECTION OF THE CHARACTER OF THE FATHER.

    Because if your answer is no, then apparently being divine is not the same as being God as you said before, is it?

    PARTICIPATING IN THE DIVINE NATURE DOESN’T MAKE US
    GODS, NOR DOES IT MAKE US DIVINE…
    THE SAINTS ARE HUMAN AND WILL REMAIN HUMAN (OF HUMAN NATURE)

    JESUS CHRIST  IS NOT THE GOD ALMIGHTY
    BUT
    HE POSSESSES THE SAME DIVINE NATURE OF GOD HIS FATHER

    and THE HUMAN NATURE
     

    #850763
    Berean
    Participant

    For you, Mike.
    In Hebrew 1
    Who’s talking to who ?

    1:8 But he said unto the Son, Thy throne, O God, is for ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a sceptre of righteousness;

    1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity: therefore, O God, thy God hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above all thy fellows.

    1:10 And again, Thou, O Lord, hast in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of thine hands;

    Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

    #850789
    Ed J
    Participant

    no. You’re not telling the truth You deny the divinity of Jesus like Gene, Edj… Jodi …

    NO Berean,

    I’m not denying Jesus divinity – Jesus is the son of God.
    Bearing false witness against someone is a sin (you know).

    ____________
    God bless
    Ed J

    #850792
    Berean
    Participant

     

    Edj

    You

    Hi Berean, Context! skip down to Col 1:20 and You can see
    it was by Jesus crucifixion that God Created all things by him – not by Jesus helping create (as your imagination tells you)

    “And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, …………….. “slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev 13:8)
    by him to reconcile all things unto himself” …………”God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself” (2 Cor 5:19)

    “whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.” (Col 1:20) … things in Heaven (through the blood of his cross)

    Me:

    Excuse me but reading your last post, I see that for you, God didn’t create anything…
    through Christ (heaven and earth…etc)
    The work of the cross is not to be confused with the work of God’s creation through Christ although the work of the cross is equally important.

     

    #850793
    Berean
    Participant

    Edj  you quote Mike

    “None of the scriptures you listed say Jesus created anything. In fact, the only scripture
    referring to Jesus creating something is the one where he “fashioned” a whip out of cords.”

    That’s right Mike,

    ……

    For you, Edj
    What’s “divinity”?
    or rather who?

     

    God bless

    #850799
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

    Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear

    13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

    38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

    Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    The glad tiding is that just as Jesus was raised from the dead receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit and eternal life, we too are promised to be made in his image as he is a firstborn of many brethren, an heir of God’s Spirit being a Son of God according to the Spirit, and we are promised to be joint heirs with him. 

    God created all things by the man who would justify people from all things. What you believe does not work with the scriptures given Berean. Jesus did all things through God, through God’s Spirit having come to rest upon him without measure. Jesus was sent out TO preach, TO deliver captives out of darkness, to die and justify people from all things. Without God’s Spirit he could do nothing of himself, and according to that Spirit he was a Son of God. All things consist in him, him being the man who received the Spirit not by measure, who went to the cross shedding his blood, for without him God would not have made all things.

    Now think on this, 

    Jesus is proof of the operation of God’s Spirit upon a man, this is WHY through one man God brings reconciliation to others, as Jesus is proof that a man can follow God’s will without failing, and how that is accomplished is God putting his Spirit upon a man unto a measure that causes that man to walk in all of God’s ways. We are promised to be raised and be an heir of God’s Spirit and Jesus is our example, Jesus is God’s proof of the works of God’s Spirit upon a man and what that Spirit accomplishes.

    If we believe in Jesus the man anointed with God’s Spirit who God raised from the dead, we understand how the below is true, and we are to have faith that the below is true in the name of Jesus the anointed, for just as what God accomplished in Jesus by His Spirit He will accomplish the same in other humans. 

    Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

     

     

    #850806
    Berean
    Participant

    Desolate

    Jesus come from HEAVEN

    HIS NAME: THE WORD OF GOD

    DO NOT RESIST TO THE HOLY SPIRIT AND BELI EVE THE WORD OF GOD.

    #850807
    Berean
    Participant

    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    #850810
    Berean
    Participant

    JOHN 6:62

    What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

     

    One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    [6] One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
    [7] But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
    [8] Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
    [9] (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
    [10] He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all h

    #850811
    Berean
    Participant

    …..where he was before?

    JÉSUS WAS WITH GOD

    AND WAS GOD

    AMEN

    ALLELOUIA

    BELIEVE  ONLY

     

     

    #850824
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    Jesus’s name means “Jehovah is salvation”

    God’s word in prophecy according to Isaiah 61 was that God was going to anoint him CHRIO in Greek, whereby that anointing he is rightfully called the Christosthe anointed.

    You do not apply scripture with scripture, it’s very unfortunate, you apply a doctrine to a handful of passages you misinterpret as you ignore passages that when applied would give you the clear truth.

    READ,

    Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 

    Berean, this is speaking of the man who SHED his blood, who was raised receiving God’s WORD the promise of the Holy Spirit, who was raised fulfilling God’s WORD Psalms 2, the son of David, a man of FLESH being begotten by God, promised to sit on his father David’s throne according to the flesh. The “he” in the above passage IS the son of Jesse promised in God’s WORD spoken in Isaiah 11, 42, and 61 to judge the world not by his own eyes and ears, but through God’s righteousness. It is the Son of Man, the root and offspring of David returning to destroy the wicked with the saints.

    WHO was promised to be made a king, higher than all other kings?

    Psalms 89: 24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.

    A man Berean receives dominion overall the earth according to God’s WORD of Psalms 8. 

    This passage below is likewise speaking of the man who SHED his BLOOD, 

    Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    God made Jesus the son of David a lord of lords!

    READ Berean,

    Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness:

    You expose yourself to be far from the truth Berean. God’s WORD from the beginning was of a HUMAN who would execute God’s purpose, all of God’s pleasure. 

    The son of David JESUS, who God promised that He would be a Father to, make him His firstborn of many brethren, make him higher than all things of the earth, is God’s word made true in the flesh.

    TELL ME BEREAN what is NOT true in the below, 

    Jesus can be called God’s WORD for 3 reasons according to direct scripture that we can read,

    #1 God’s word was fulfilled in Jesus, he as the son of Jesse has God’s Spirit rest upon him just as God promised in Isaiah 11, 42, and 61. God’s word fulfilled in Jesus as he was raised from the dead being begotten by God as God promised in Psalms 2. God’s word fulfilled when Jesus was crucified for our sins. I could go on and on. Okay I’ll add one more. God gave Moses His WORD, nope that doesn’t mean God gave Moses a pre-existing Jesus, it means God gave Moses that which from the beginning was God’s pleasure, a promise where like Moses God would raise up a prophet from among his people and the people would hear him. That brings us to reason #2,

    #2 God’s word in prophecy was that a Son of Man would have God’s Spirit rest upon him without measure in order for him TO then be able TO SPEAK God’s WORD. Jesus is God’s word for he speaks to us God’s word. He was sent out to preach to us God’s coming kingdom. Jesus even gives us the same WORD that God gave the prophets, “man shall not live on bread alone, but by every WORD that proceeds out of God’s mouth”. That which Jesus says is the WORD of God that came from God.

    #3 A man is said to fulfill all of God’s will, it is Jesus the son of David who fulfills all of God’s will. God spoke His will, His pleasure to the prophets, to Jesus, and to the apostles, and we see Jesus the Son of Man returning to fulfill that which was of God’s WORD before the world was.

    Acts 10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

    Jesus is not called The Word of God because he pre-existed Berean, but for the very reasons I just spoke of.

    A man receiving God’s Spirit without measure IS God’s word made true in the flesh of Jesus.

    A man receiving God’s Spirit to preach to us God’s word.

    A man receiving God’s Spirit to fulfill all of God’s word that God had declared before the world was.

    Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

    John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

     

    #850825
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hello All,

    Perfect is God’s WORD that He gave to the prophet David that we can then apply to God’s word spoken by John in chapter 3,

    14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That who so ever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.  16 Whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

    Acts 13:23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

    1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore. 

    The Son that God sent in John 3, IS the Son of Man, the son of David who God promised He would be a Father to. 

    ALSO in John 3,

    34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ (the anointed, CHRIO made into the CHRISTOS), the Son of God; …..9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. 10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: 11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    God promised unto David that He would be a Father to his son.

    David’s son was SENT upon having received the Spirit not by measure, where God declared at that moment that he was God’s Son.

    The Son of Man IS NOT God’s Son because he pre-existed, he is God’s Son because he is the promised son of David who received God’s Spirit not by measure and then God sent him out into the world.

    1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

    Was Jesus the only mortal man who received the Spirit not by measure and upon such he was SENT? YES!

    God didn’t send a pre-existing son down to earth to be a man who would die for our sins. Jesus could do nothing of himself, he went to the cross because he had received God’s Spirit without measure for TO deliver captives out of darkness. 

     

    #850826
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    YOU: If we believe in Jesus the man anointed with God’s Spirit who God raised from the dead, we understand how the below is true,(PURE LIES)

    and we are to have faith that the below is true in the name of Jesus the anointed, for just as what God accomplished in Jesus by His Spirit He will accomplish the same in other humans. ( ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED IT’S UP TO US)

    Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

    The above Jodi,

    OCCURRED ON JESUS BAPTISM!

    BUT IT IS NOT A REFERENCE TO JESUS, AS SUCH, BUT TO THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE!

    Jesus received baptism for

    THE SAKE OF THE HUMAN RACE EMBODIED ALL IN HIM.

    TO FULFILL ALL JUSTICE! Matthew 3:15

    Jodi, The entire human race, the generations of heaven and earth

    WERE EMBODIED IN JESUS ON HIS BIRTH! THE SECOND ADAM. 

    The entire human race was embodied in Adam as LIVING SOULS! BUT ALL DIED SPIRITUALLY AND RECEIVED THE CURSED SATANIC FLESH AND BLOOD BODY!

    Jesus “THE WORD” made FLESH, the Son of Man came in the LIKENESS of the cursed satanic men LOADED WITH ALL SINS PAST PRESENT and FUTURE  through the entire process of the world ALL IN HIM/ALL BY HIM BUT REMAINED INTACT DURING THE PROCESS, AND LEFT BEHIND HIS SPIRIT IN ALL CREATURES’ HEART, ETERNAL LIFE.

    During His life on earth he dissolved all sins and eradicated all attempts to commit sin from Satan and his demons, and HE JUSTIFIED HIMSELF 

    THE MESSIAH.

    THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE ALL EMBODIED IN JESUS “THE WORD” THE SON OF MAN, WAS JUSTIFIED. REDEEMED ONLY TO BE CONFIRMED ON THE CROSS.

    THE FACT THAT JESUS ACCOMPLISHED HIS MISSION AND ERADICATED SATAN’S WORK THROUGHOUGHT EVEN DEATH WHEN HE RAISED OTHERS FROM DEATH.

    BUT HE ACCOMPLISHED ALL THE ENTIRE REDEMPTION PROCESS SIMPLY AS HE WAS ANOINTED, SUPPORTED BY THE FATHER: SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD.Rev.13:8 

    SLAIN SIMPLY AS HE, DURING THE PROCESS OF THE EARTH EMPTIED HIMSELF FROM HIS SPIRIT, POURED IT AND ENRAFTED HIS SPIRIT IN ALL CREATURES’ HEART AS ETERNAL LIFE, AND ALSO FOR THE CURRENT PROCESS OF SALVATION OF ALL SOULS. BY JESUS THROUGH THE WOMAN MARY. AS MUCH AS SATAN CONDEMNED ALL HUMAN RACE THROUGH EVE, AND THROUGH EVE ADAM FELL, and THROUGH MARY JESUS THE SECOND ADAM CAME.

    JESUS’ SPIRIT. “THE WORD” IS ETERNAL LIFE. IT WAS ALLOCATED TO HIM BY THE FATHER BEFORE CREATION, SO THROUGH HIM NOT EVEN SATAN WOULD BE ERADICATED SINCE HE

    “THE WORD” OF GOD IS IN SATAN’S HEART, HIS LIFE.

    Thus on His baptism Jesus accomplished 

    ALL JUSTICE IN HIMSELF.

    ALL THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE BORN IN HIM, ALSO 

    ALL BAPTIZED IN HIM, ALL JUSTIFIED IN HIM, BY WHICH BAPTISM ALL THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE 

    BECAME FIRSTBORNS SONS, BORN AGAIN IN THE WATER AND THE HOLY GHOST, asserted in

    Romans  8:29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son:
    <h2>that he might be the Firstborn amongst many brethren.</h2>
    30And whom he predestinated, them he also called. And whom he called, them he also justified. And whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    Also in

    John3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee,

    unless a man ( JESUS EMBODIED IN THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, GOD’S KINGDOM AS CHILDREN OF GOD IN FLESH, THE NEW JERUSALEM) be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 

    Thus WHO BELIEVES IN JESUS 

    AUTOMATICALLY  IS BROTHER TO JESUS! Thus who believes in Jesus

    MUST CONFIRM ON THIS SATANIC PLANET THAT 
    <h2>HE IS BROTHER TO JESUS SIMPLY  BE BAPTIZED BY THE WATER  IN THE NAME OF</h2>
    <h2>THE FATHER, THE SON, and THE HOLY GHOST!</h2>
    26 A new heart also will I give you, (“THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man, originally engrafted in all hearts as an infinitesimal spirit, SLAIN LIKE A LAMB...) and a new spirit will I put within you: (THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE RECEIVED  THE HOLY GHOST ON JESUS’ BAPTISM , NOT ACTUALLY JESUS, BUT JESUS FOR THE SAKE OF THE HUMAN RACE  ALL BORN  IN HIM, IN BETHLEHEM IN FLESH, AND AT THE JORDAN IN THE HOLY GHOST) and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, ( REMOVE SATAN FROM THE HEART OF THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, ON JESUS’BAPTISM) and I will give you a heart of flesh. (“THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man as a spirit, justified His truth as ETERNAL LIFE OF ALL FLESH IN THE HEART OF ALL. SINCE THE BEGINNING. JOHN17:2)  27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #850827
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    YOU: If we believe in Jesus the man anointed with God’s Spirit who God raised from the dead, we understand how the below is true,(PURE LIES)

    and we are to have faith that the below is true in the name of Jesus the anointed, for just as what God accomplished in Jesus by His Spirit He will accomplish the same in other humans. ( ALREADY ACCOMPLISHED IT’S UP TO US)

    Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

    The above Jodi,

    OCCURRED ON JESUS BAPTISM!

    BUT IT IS NOT A REFERENCE TO JESUS, AS SUCH, BUT TO THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE!

    Jesus received baptism for

    THE SAKE OF THE HUMAN RACE EMBODIED ALL IN HIM.

    TO FULFILL ALL JUSTICE! Matthew 3:15

    Jodi, The entire human race, the generations of heaven and earth

    WERE EMBODIED IN JESUS ON HIS BIRTH! THE SECOND ADAM. 

    The entire human race was embodied in Adam as LIVING SOULS! BUT ALL DIED SPIRITUALLY AND RECEIVED THE CURSED SATANIC FLESH AND BLOOD BODY!

    Jesus “THE WORD” made FLESH, the Son of Man came in the LIKENESS of the cursed satanic men LOADED WITH ALL SINS PAST PRESENT and FUTURE  through the entire process of the world ALL IN HIM/ALL BY HIM BUT REMAINED INTACT DURING THE PROCESS, AND LEFT BEHIND HIS SPIRIT IN ALL CREATURES’ HEART, ETERNAL LIFE.

    During His life on earth he dissolved all sins and eradicated all attempts to commit sin from Satan and his demons, and HE JUSTIFIED HIMSELF 

    THE MESSIAH.

    THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE ALL EMBODIED IN JESUS “THE WORD” THE SON OF MAN, WAS JUSTIFIED. REDEEMED ONLY TO BE CONFIRMED ON THE CROSS.

    THE FACT THAT JESUS ACCOMPLISHED HIS MISSION AND ERADICATED SATAN’S WORK THROUGHOUGHT EVEN DEATH WHEN HE RAISED OTHERS FROM DEATH.

    BUT HE ACCOMPLISHED ALL THE ENTIRE REDEMPTION PROCESS SIMPLY AS HE WAS ANOINTED, SUPPORTED BY THE FATHER: SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD.Rev.13:8 

    SLAIN SIMPLY AS HE, DURING THE PROCESS OF THE EARTH EMPTIED HIMSELF FROM HIS SPIRIT, POURED IT AND ENRAFTED HIS SPIRIT IN ALL CREATURES’ HEART AS ETERNAL LIFE, AND ALSO FOR THE CURRENT PROCESS OF SALVATION OF ALL SOULS. BY JESUS THROUGH THE WOMAN MARY. AS MUCH AS SATAN CONDEMNED ALL HUMAN RACE THROUGH EVE, AND THROUGH EVE ADAM FELL.

    JESUS’ SPIRIT. “THE WORD” IS ETERNAL LIFE. IT WAS ALLOCATED TO HIM BY THE FATHER BEFORE CREATION, SO THROUGH HIM NOT EVEN SATAN WOULD BE ERADICATED SINCE HE

    “THE WORD” OF GOD IS IN SATAN’S HEART, HIS LIFE.

    Thus on His baptism Jesus accomplished 

    ALL JUSTICE IN HIMSELF.

    ALL THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE BORN IN HIM, ALSO 

    ALL BAPTIZED IN HIM, ALL JUSTIFIED IN HIM, BY WHICH BAPTISM ALL THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE 

    BECAME FIRSTBORNS SONS, BORN AGAIN IN THE WATER AND THE HOLY GHOST, asserted in

    Romans  8:29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son:

    that he might be the Firstborn amongst many brethren.

    30And whom he predestinated, them he also called. And whom he called, them he also justified. And whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    Also in

    John3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee,

    unless a man ( JESUS EMBODIED IN THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, GOD’S KINGDOM AS CHILDREN OF GOD IN FLESH, THE NEW JERUSALEM) be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 

    Thus WHO BELIEVES IN JESUS 

    AUTOMATICALLY  IS BROTHER TO JESUS! Thus who believes in Jesus

    MUST CONFIRM ON THIS SATANIC PLANET THAT 

    HE IS BROTHER TO JESUS SIMPLY  BE BAPTIZED BY THE WATER  IN THE NAME OF

    THE FATHER, THE SON, and THE HOLY GHOST!

    26 A new heart also will I give you, (“THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man, originally engrafted in all hearts as an infinitesimal spirit, SLAIN LIKE A LAMB...) and a new spirit will I put within you: (THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE RECEIVED  THE HOLY GHOST ON JESUS’ BAPTISM , NOT ACTUALLY JESUS, BUT JESUS FOR THE SAKE OF THE HUMAN RACE  ALL BORN  IN HIM, IN BETHLEHEM IN FLESH, AND AT THE JORDAN IN THE HOLY GHOST) and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, ( REMOVE SATAN FROM THE HEART OF THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, ON JESUS’BAPTISM) and I will give you a heart of flesh. (“THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man as a spirit, justified His truth as ETERNAL LIFE OF ALL FLESH IN THE HEART OF ALL. SINCE THE BEGINNING. JOHN17:2)  27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #850828
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean: PARTICIPATING IN THE DIVINE NATURE DOESN’T MAKE US
    GODS, NOR DOES IT MAKE US DIVINE…

    Got it.  So having a divine nature does NOT make one a god – let alone the Almighty Most High God of gods.  We agree.  It seems we also agree that Jesus is NOT the Most High God of gods.  But are you willing to agree with scripture that Jesus is the servant of the Most High God – and that the Most High God is not only our God, but also Jesus’ God?

    If you get to that point, you’ll be preaching according to what the scriptures – and Jesus himself – actually teach.

    #850829
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean:  The work of the cross is not to be confused with the work of God’s creation through Christ although the work of the cross is equally important.

    I agree 100% with that statement!

    #850830
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Berean: Jesus come from HEAVEN

    Absolutely!  He was the very firstborn of God’s entire creation, and God then created everything else through His firstborn Son.  He emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being, served his God on earth for 33 years, and was then returned to the glory he had alongside his Father before the world began.

    1.  First spirit entity brought forth by God.
    2.  Transformed into flesh for 33 years.
    3.   Back in heaven now as a spirit entity again – sitting at the right hand of his Father and God.

     

    #850832
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    It’s been a long time. I guess I’ll try this again:

    you said: “He was the very firstborn of God’s entire creation”

    No. He was the firstborn of God the Father.

    Blessings, LU

    #850834
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Hi Kathi,

    Revelation 3:14 King James Bible
    And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

    #850836
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    The “beginning” is a person as Revelation 3:14 shows us, and in that person (the Son), God created all things, the heaven and the earth.

    Gen1:1

    In the beginning (the Son), God created the heavens and the earth.

    That is how I have begun to understand that, it is my opinion, a possibility.

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