John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

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Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 25,361 through 25,380 (of 25,993 total)
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  • #946019
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Berean,

    You quote a verse and now I have three questions for you:

    What does it mean??

    Who is speaking and to whom are they speaking about in this dialog?

    What is the entire context of this section (Isa 53:1-9)?

    #946020
    Berean
    Participant

    It is Isaiah who speaks (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) of the bearer of the sins of the world.
    Besides, the whole of chapter 53 only talks about this bearer of the sins of the world.

    For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead.

    And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
    (2 Cor.5:14,15)

    Don’t you want to believe in him?

     

    🙏

    #946021
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi DT,

    You: You: JESUS and LUCIFER! THE VERY FIRST-EVER MARRIAGE

    Me: HA HA HA HA HA HA!! Don’t think I have ever read that in God’s word or anything interpreted as such

    John3:28 You yourselves do bear me witness, that I said, I am not Christ, but that I am sent before him. 

    29He that hath the bride, is the bridegroom:

    but the friend of the bridegroom, who standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth with joy because of the bridegroom’s voice. This my joy therefore is fulfilled.

    ANSWER DT:

    THE BRIDEGROOM IS DEFINITELY

    JESUS CHRIST!

    TELL ME NOW:

    WHO IS THE BRIDE IN THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE?

     

    and then apply this thinking to Job 38:7.

    The entire verse is

    “7 when the morning stars were singing together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”

    When placed in context,

    God is asking Job where he was during creation.

    Me: NO THE ABOVE IS NOT THE CONTEXT AT ALL! THOUGH HE ASKED JOB WHERE HE WAS!!! 

    I LEAVE IT TO YOU TO DISCERN WHO JOB IS, CONSIDERING WHAT HE IS AS A HUMAN,  AND WHAT HE IS PERSONIFYING IN THIS SCRIPTURE!

    THE CONTEXT FROM VERSE 4, IS GOD EXPLAINING TO JOB THE PROCESS OF CREATION, AND HE ENDED HIS DESCRIPTION PRECISELY IN VERSE 6 WHILE IN VERSE 7 HE REVEALED TO JOB WHAT THE STATE OF

    THE MORNING STARS AND THE SONS OF GOD WAS!

    WHICH IS ALSO A REFERENCE TO JOB, AS A MYSTERIOUS SPIRIT BEING!

    NOW READ WHERE JOB WAS, ACCORDING TO GOD:

    21Didst thou know then that thou shouldst be born ?

    and didst thou know the number of thy days?

    You: This imagery of the “morning stars singing”

    is speaking of the creation of them and the angels rejoicing at there creation.

    THAT’S YOUR CARNAL-MINDED INTELLIGENCE, WITH EVERY RESPECT!

    FIRST AND FOREMOST NOT “THE MORNING STARS SINGING” BUT

    THE MORNING STARS SINGING TOGETHER!!!

     

    READ AGAIN PLEASE:

    1Then the Lord answered Job out of a whirlwind, and said :

    2Who is this that wrappeth up sentences in unskillful words?

    3Gird up thy loins like a man : I will ask thee, and answer thou me.

    4Where wast thou when I laid up the foundations of the earth ?

    tell me if thou hast understanding.

    5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

    6Upon what are its bases grounded? or who laid the corner stone thereof,

    ATTENTION NOW, READ WHAT GOD SAID WHEN HE FINISHED DESCRIBING HIS PARTICULAR PREPARATION PART OF THE CREATION OF THE WORLD AND REVEALED TO JOB,  

    THE SIGNIFICANT SPECIFIC PARTICULAR STATE BOTH OF

    THE MORNING STARS AND

    THE SONS OF GOD:

    I REPEAT, THIS STATE, AS IT IS WRITTEN, IS VERY SIGNIFICANT AND  ALSO A REVELATION!

    7When the morning stars praised me together,

    and all the sons of God made a joyful melody?

    NOW  PONDER AND ASK YOURSELF:

    ONLY THE MORNING STARS WERE TOGETHER WHILE THEY PRAISED GOD IN A UNIQUE AND PARTICULAR WAY, DURING THE CREATION OF THE EARTH OF GENESIS 1:1? 

    WHY THE MORNING STARS WERE NOT ALSO SONS OF GOD?

    WHY THE SONS OF GOD WERE NOT ALSO TOGETHER WHEN THEY MADE A PARTICULAR JOYFUL MELODY?

    IN WHAT WAY THEN, THE MORNING STARS “ONLY” WERE TOGETHER?

    ONLY ALL THE SONS OF GOD MADE A PARTICULAR JOYFUL MELODY  DURING THE CREATION OF THE EARTH?

    WHAT THEN THIS PARTICULAR JOYFUL MELODY IS?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

    #946026
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi DT,

    YOU: What happened or what changed between the OT and NT? 

    WHEN WILL YOU GET IT INTO YOUR MIND, THAT THE OT. IS OBSOLETE?

    THOUGH THE SAME, EVEN THE GOD OF THE OT IS DIFFERENT NEVER MIND THE COVENANT HE MADE!

    READ:

    Jeremiah 31:31Behold the days shall come, saith the Lord,

    and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel,

    and with the house of Juda: 32Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt: the covenant which they made void, and I had dominion over them, saith the Lord.

    33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, after those days, saith the Lord:

    I will give my law in their bowels,

    and I will write it in their heart: (Luke 17:20-37)

    and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying: Know the Lord:

    for all shall know me from the least of them even to the greatest, saith the Lord:

    for I will forgive their iniquity,

    and I will remember their sin no more.

    YOU: What happened or what changed between the OT and NT? 

    With your question above, DT, you simply confirmed that, SPIRITUALLY,

    YOU ARE NOT  MATURE ENOUGH TO DISCERN EVEN THE ESTABLISHMENT AND THE MEANING OF THE  OT.

    PHYSICALLY SPEAKING NOTHING CHANGED EXCEPT GOD HIMSELF IN

    JESUS CHRIST

    GODMAN ON EARTH!

    WHILE THE FATHER, SPIRIT,  IS IN HIS LONGEST REST!

    SCRIPTURES FOR YOU TO PONDER ON!

    Luke 17:20 And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come? he answered them, and said: The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you. 22And he said to his disciples: The days will come, when you shall desire to see one day of the Son of man; and you shall not see it. 23And they will say to you: See here, and see there. Go ye not after, nor follow them: 24For as the lightening that lighteneth from under heaven, shineth unto the parts that are under heaven, so shall the Son of man be in his day. 25But first he must suffer many things, and be rejected by this generation.

     26And as it came to pass in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27They did eat and drink, they married wives, and were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark: and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28Likewise as it came to pass, in the days of Lot: they did eat and drink, they bought and sold, they planted and built. 29And in the day that Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man shall be revealed. 

    READ THE ABOVE DT, AND ACCORDING TO JESUS, PHYSICALLY

    NOTHING WAS CHANGED ON HIS DAY. 

    BUT SPIRITUALLY DEFINITELY DID CHANGE ON HIS DAY ON THE CROSS IMMEDIATELY WHEN HE DIED FOR HUMANITY!

    PONDER NOW ON WHAT JESUS IS SAYING!

    31In that hour,

    OF HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS!

    he that shall be on the housetop, and his goods in the house, let him not go down to take them away: and he that shall be in the field, in like manner, let him not return back. 

    32Remember Lot’s wife. 33Whosoever shall seek to save his life, shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose it, shall preserve it. 

    34I say to you: in that night

    WHAT NIGHT DT, OBVIOUSLY THE NIGHT OF HIS DEATH!!! KEEP ON READING PLEASE:

    there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35Two women shall be grinding together: the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left: two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be Left.

    36They answering, say to him: Where, Lord? 37Who said to them: Wheresoever the body shall be, thither will the eagles also be gathered together.

     

    John 12:31 Now is the judgment of the world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

    32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,

    will draw all things to myself.

    John17:1 1THESE things Jesus spoke, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: Father, the hour is come,

    glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee.

    Ephesians 2:11For which cause be mindful that you, being heretofore Gentiles in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands; 12 That you were at that time without Christ, being aliens from the conversation of Israel, and strangers to the testament, having no hope of the promise,

    and without God in this world.

    13But now in Christ Jesus, you, who some time were afar off, are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and breaking down the middle wall of partition,

    the enmities in his flesh:

    15Making void the law of commandments contained in decrees;

    that he might make the two in himself into one new man, making peace; 16And might reconcile both to God in one body by the cross,

    killing the enmities in himself.

    17And coming, he preached peace to you that were afar off, and peace to them that were nigh. 18For by him we have access both in one Spirit to the Father.

    WHO WERE THE ENMITIES THAT JESUS KILLED IN HIMSELF, AND TRANSFORMED ENTIRLEY?

    THE ENMITIES THAT DOMINATED THE OT!

    WHILE NOTHING IS CHANGED PHYSICALLY!

    AS FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO GOD’S WORK, IT IS

    HIS SPIRIT WHICH GIVES LIFE/EXISTENCE  TO ALL OF HIS WORK, EVEN PHYSICALLY!

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #946027
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Carmel,

    How do you come up with this stuff?!? Either the words written mean exactly what they say or they don’t; if they don’t what they say, then everything in the bible must be thought of as an interpretive literary work that can mean anything the reader wishes. I say the first option because my God wasn’t maliciously hiding anything or trying to confuse those HE was speaking to. It’s man who adds confusion to what God says…like you.

    You: THE CONTEXT FROM VERSE 4, IS GOD EXPLAINING TO JOB THE PROCESS OF CREATION, AND HE ENDED HIS DESCRIPTION PRECISELY IN VERSE 6 WHILE IN VERSE 7 HE REVEALED TO JOB WHAT THE STATE OF THE MORNING STARS AND THE SONS OF GOD WAS!

    Me: verse 7 actually begins in verse 6; let’s read for understanding:

    Or who laid its cornerstone, 7 when the morning stars were singing together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    Don’t know if you noticed, but there is a comma in this sentence and it begins with a capital letter and ends with a question mark. Or don’t you adhere to the rules of grammar? It would seem you have used copy and paste theology to support your claim by cherry picking phrases to support what you believe. This has nothing to do with Jesus and satan being married.

    This dialog of God’s beginning in 38, ends in chapter 40:2. In it God asks Job a series of rhetorical questions showing HIS might and wisdom of creation and how everything in it works in perfect harmony. This is in contrast to what could Job do that can compare; but, out of one passage you get Jesus married satan?!!? WOW!! In these chapters God smacked down Job for questioning HIM; for you, it is wedding bells! And you have the gall to call me “carnal minded”; beginning to wonder if you know what that means since you accuse everyone being it and never you. You sit behind your computer screen talking down to everyone as if you have been given all this “revelation”; yet, ignore the meaning of the words written and have this obsession to spiritualize everything, even when it’s not there.

    Wake up, what you peddle is false!

    #946028
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Carmel,

    You: WHEN WILL YOU GET IT INTO YOUR MIND, THAT THE OT. IS OBSOLETE?

    Me: Never!! God says his law is forever.

    If the OT is obsolete, why do you continually reference it; it makes no sense. If it’s obsolete, why are you quoting Jer 31 in this diatribe of nonsense you are spewing? You quote starting in verse 31 and still have no idea what it says. How do you not understand the words Jeremiah spoke? He says: “Look, the days are coming,” declares Yahweh, “and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.” Are you this obtuse that you fail to understand this “new covenant” is for the house of Israel and Judah and NOT for the rest of the world!?!?

    What is this “new” covenant? Verse 33 God says: “But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Yahweh: “I will put my law in their inward parts and on their hearts I will write it, and I will be to them God, and they themselves will be to me people.” How do you not understand this either? God is explicit in what this “new” covenant will be; God’s LAWS, HIS Torah, will be written on their hearts. Who’s hearts, the house of Israel; the people of Israel will know who God is, from the smallest to the greatest, and teaching others will no longer be required. I’ll ask again, who is the covenant for, the world or Israel, and has this happened yet? Have God’s laws been imprinted on Israel’s heart?

    Wait, Paul says we aren’t under the law, it was nailed to the cross. What did David say about God’s commands:

    Psalm 119:97-101 Oh, how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day. You, through Your commandments, make me wiser than my enemies; for they are ever with me. I have more understanding than all my teachers, for Your testimonies are my meditation. I understand more than the ancients, because I keep Your precepts. I have restrained my feet from every evil way, that I may keep Your word. Read this one a few time and let it sink in.

    Psalm 119:104 Through Your precepts I get understanding; therefore I hate every false way.

    Psalm 119:111-113 Your testimonies I have taken as a heritage forever (if David says forever, shouldn’t that be our mindset also), for they are the rejoicing of my heart. I have inclined my heart to perform Your statutes forever, to the very end. I hate the double-minded, but I love Your law.

    Psalm 119:126 It is time for You to act, O Lord, for they have regarded Your law as void.

    Psalm 119:152 Concerning Your testimonies, I have known of old that You have founded them forever.

    Psalm 119:160 The entirety of Your word is truth, and every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever. Did David say the “entirety” of God words is forever?

    No wonder you and Paul hate the OT!

    #946029
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @ Berean

    Amen!

    🙏

    #946034
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    DT, YOU.SAID, ……”Wait, Paul says we aren’t under the law, it was nailed to the cross. What did David say about God’s commands”.

    Paul is exactly right, by the way “law” (forced compliance) works, no flesh shall be justified before God.

    You simply cannot “force people” (by laws) to truly keep GOD’S COMMANDMENTS. 

    IT TAKES “GOD” to change our hearts , by the renewing of our thinking to do that. The commandments turned into “LAWS” at the time of Ex 20:20, could never change a persons heart. 

    The laws were made for the evil hearted ISRAELITES, and that ever changed them as scripture clearly shows.  It takes more than “laws” to change a persons heart, only God the Father himself can do that.

    Therefore just as Paul “TRULY” SAID.   “By works of  “LAW”  no flesh shall be justified before God”.

    The definite article, “the” was added to the text, look it up .  Paul was not talking about the Ten Commandments at all,  but the way they were being applied in Ex20:20, by how “LAW WORKS” ,  (through forced compliance).

    We through the Spirit of love given us from God the Father, keep all of his commandments and have no need of a “law”,  any law at all,  “for all the law is fulfilled in one word , “you  shall love our neighbor as yourself”.  The  love of God shed abroad in our hearts fulfills ” all the requirements of law”.  But that’s not achieve  by the way “law’ works, but is given to us, by the “Grace of God”.

    peace and love to you and yours DT………gene

     

     

    #946035
    Berean
    Participant

    1John.5
    [1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
    [2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when👉 we love God, and 👉keep his commandments.
    [3] For this is the love of God, that 👉we keep his commandments: and his👉 commandments are not grievous.
    [4] For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
    [5] Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that 👉believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?👈

    #946036
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean……Not only is JESUS a son of God, but so is “ALL”  those who have the Spirit of the Father abiding “IN” THEM. JUST as it says, …..> 1 John 3:1-2…..>Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us that we should be called the sons of God, therefore the world knows us not , because it knew him not. (2)..> Beloved, “NOW” are we the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that, when he (JESUS)  shall appear, we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.
    OUR appearance will be exactly the same as Jesus’  is.

    The problem is Berean, do you truly believe what the scriptures actually say?

    peace and love to you and yours Berean……….gene

     

     

    #946037
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @desiretruth

    Those sacrifices you are talking about were for false gods.
    But Jesus Christ gave his body and blood for the salvation of mankind.
    Shame on you for making no distinction at all.
    Of course, no sinful human being could ever redeem another sinful human being.
    But Jesus Christ was without sin
    Shame on you for making no distinction at all.

    Read how precious the blood of Christ is.
    Revelation 1:5-6
    5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
    6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    Amen and Amen.

    #946038
    Berean
    Participant

     

    Gene

    You. “Not only is JESUS a son of God, but so is “ALL”  those who have the Spirit of the Father abiding “IN” THEM. JUST as it says, …..> 1 John 3:1-2…..>Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us that we should be called the sons of God, therefore….

    Me

    Your last post has nothing to do with the verses I posted.

    Now to respond to your post I will still just make a remark:

    JESUS IS MORE THAN👉 A SON OF GOD, HE IS ‘THE
    ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD “WHO WAS MADE FLESH FOR THE SALVATION OF MANKIND.(JOHN 1:1/3:16)

    🙏

    #946039
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean , you said……>JESUS IS MORE THAN👉 A SON OF GOD, HE IS ‘THE
    ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD “WHO WAS MADE FLESH FOR THE SALVATION OF MANKIND.(JOHN 1:1/3:16)

    Jesus is not the “ONLY” begotten son of God as scriptures plainly show. He is indeed a “uniquely” , begotten son, but not the only.  All of creation is begotten of God.

    You continue to try to make Jesus into a God, by continually separating him from his brothers ad sisters.  “2thes2”,  Applies to you and many others here,  you are taking a “human being” and by saying he is “more then a son-of God “, you are turning him,  a man, into a God, and that is exactly what, the apostle Paul said the “apostate” church would do, and by doing that you have changed the “image” of  him, into a “man of sin”.

    While Jesus is indeed a unique human, he is not now or ever has been “a God”.

    peace and love to you and yours Berean…………gene

    #946040
    Berean
    Participant

    John.1
    [18] No man hath seen God at any time;👉 the only begotten Son,👈 which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
    John.3
    [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave 👉his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of 👉the only begotten Son of God.👈

    1John.4
    [9] In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God 👉sent his only begotten Son 👈

    👉into the world, that we might live through him.

    #946041
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @desiretruth

    Did you receive my message? Because there was an error on
    this website.
    Here it is again. It is a response to your #post-946013

    Those sacrifices you are talking about were for false gods.
    But Jesus Christ gave his body and blood for the salvation of mankind.
    Shame on you for making no distinction at all.
    Of course, no sinful human being could ever redeem another sinful human being.
    But Jesus Christ was without sin
    Shame on you for making no distinction at all.

    Read how precious the blood of Christ is.
    Revelation 1:5-6
    5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
    6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    Amen and Amen.

    #946042
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @desiretruth

    Animal sacrifices offered to the only true God YHWH, were
    a picture pointing forward to the final, all-sufficient sacrifice made by Jesus Christ his Son.
    The Book of Hebrews is the best book regarding these matters.
    Study it. It will help you.

    #946043
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Jesus is not the “ONLY” begotten son of God as scriptures plainly show. He is indeed a “uniquely” , begotten son, but not the only. All of creation is begotten of God.

    You continue to try to make Jesus into a God, by continually separating him from his brothers ad sisters.

    He is not THE God.

    But he is greater than us men.

    He came in the flesh as one of us which was humbling for him.

    Now we can also have the similar body that he has now, so we will be exalted because he was exalted.

    Yes, he is the only begotten son. John 3:16 is correct.

    In Hebrews 11:17, Isaac is identified as Abraham’s “only begotten son” (KJV). While Abraham had multiple sons, Isaac was the sole offspring born to him by Sarah and the exclusive heir of the covenant. Thus, it is Isaac’s distinctiveness among his brothers that warrants the use of “monogenes” in this passage. So, it is up to you @genebalthrop to find out why Jesus is the monogenes of the Father. This understanding you appear to lack and no matter what scriptures you have been given, there is a blindness that needs to be dealt with. Pray earnestly that God will open your eyes.

    #946045
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Proclaimer you said,…….>In Hebrews 11:17, Isaac is identified as Abraham’s “only begotten son” (KJV). While Abraham had multiple sons, Isaac was the sole offspring born to him by Sarah and the exclusive heir of the covenant. Thus, it is Isaac’s distinctiveness among his brothers that warrants the use of “monogenes” in this passage.

    So tell me was Isaac also a preexisting being who was somehow “morphed” into a  human body,  As you suppose Jesus was?

    Proclaimer,  what you fail to see is that Jesus was a real human being from his birth to his death  and resurrection and is to this day a 100% human being, he is “exactly” what God had in mind for all his human creation, from his birth to his death and resurrection “.

    You are among those who “separate” Jesus from his brothers and sisters. You say he is not ‘the” God, but is your God, that would be the question here?  I say you are among those that fulfill the “prophecy”, that the apostle Paul delivered concerning what the “apostate”churches would do ,  by turning Jesus into a God, and worshiping him as such.  You and others who believe like you, have turned the “image” of Jesus , into a “man of  sin”.  Just as Paul prophesied in ….> 2Ths 2

    Tell us Proclaimer, what “man” have you ever heard of that is, “NOW”. sitting in the “Temple of God” and being worshiped as a God?  the only man I know of is Jesus,  And people like you worship him as your God .   It’s all there for people that have eyes to see, and ears that hear> 

    Jesus said, not me…….> “this is eternal life , that they might know “YOU” the “ONLY” true God”,  and me who you have sent”   The word “ONLY” means there is “NOW OTHER” true God,  but one.

    Your words over time here have proven you are an “Idolator”  and among those who separate Jesus from the rest of his human brothers and sisters, and also going against the very purpose of God the Fathers whole human creation. You act like you’re not a Trinitarian but you hold to many of their teachings.   IMO

    I think you are the one who need to pray about it Proclaimer.

    peace and love to you and yours Proclaimer………..gene

     

    #946046
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi DT,

    You: How do you come up with this stuff?!?

    James 1:5 But if any of you want wisdom, let him ask of God,

    who giveth to all men abundantly, and upbraideth not;

    and it shall be given him. 

    6But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea, which is moved and carried about by the wind. 7Therefore let not that man think that he shall receive anything of the Lord. 8A double minded man is inconstant in all his ways.

    Either the words written mean exactly what they say or they don’t; if they don’t what they say, then everything in the bible must be thought of as an interpretive literary work

    that can mean anything the reader wishes.

    ME: THAT’S YOUR CORRUPTED REASONING I’M AFRAID!

    I say the first option because my God wasn’t malicious hiding anything.

    MALICIOUSLY DEFINITELY NOT!!!

    BUT, HIDING THINGS FOR THE SAKE OF OUR FREE WILL, IS DEFINITELY MORE THAN YOU THINK, AND ONCE WE HUMBLY AND BY OUR FREE WILL, IN FULL FAITH AND MOST OF ALL  TO LOVE HIM MORE, ASK HIM, HE IS

    SUPER GENEROUS FOR SURE!

    THAT’S WHAT I DID 17 YEARS AGO!

    I MEAN: WHEN I WAS BORN OF THE SPIRIT.

    Job 28: Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding?

    21 It is hidden from the eyes of all living.

    and the fowls of the air know it not.

    1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among the perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, neither of the princes of this world that come to nought; 7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery,

    a wisdom which is hidden,

    which God ordained before the world, unto our glory :

    8Which none of the princes of this world knew; for if they had known it, they would never have crucified the Lord of glory.

    or trying to confuse those HE was speaking to.

    It’s man who adds confusion to what God says…like you.

    LET’S READ AND SEE:

    Me:  THE CONTEXT FROM VERSE 4, IS GOD EXPLAINING TO JOB THE PROCESS OF CREATION, AND

     HE ENDED HIS DESCRIPTION PRECISELY IN VERSE 6

    WHILE IN VERSE 7 HE REVEALED TO JOB WHAT THE STATE OF THE MORNING STARS AND THE SONS OF GOD WERE!

    YOU: verse 7 actually begins in verse 6; let’s read for understanding:

    ME: IT IS IRRELEVANT!

    READ AGAIN:

    6Upon what are its bases grounded?

    or who laid the corner stone thereof,

    7When the morning stars praised me together,

    and all the sons of God made a joyful melody?

    AS YOU CAN READ VERY WELL,  THE LAST PART OF VERSE 6 DESCRIBES THE CREATION PROCESS AS I SAID.

    THAT WAS MY POINT!

    I NEVER SAID ANYTHING REGARDING WHERE VERSE 7 STARTS FROM AT ALL.

    NOW VERSE 7, ALSO AS I SAID, MADE US AWARE OF WHAT STATE THE MORNING STARS AND THE SONS OF GOD WERE IN, PRECISELY RIGHT FROM WHERE THE NUMBER 7 IS!

    NOW  LET’S CARRY ON DISCUSSING THIS MYSTERIOUS SPIRITUAL SCRIPTURE, WHICH FOR A REASON ONLY YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, A PERSON STAGNATED ON THE LITERAL SENSE ONLY OF THE WORD OF GOD, WHO IS SPIRIT.

    WHICH FROM HIS  SIDE  IS BOTH SPIRITUAL AS MUCH AS PHYSICAL, ONLY FOR OUR SAKE, AND THE TRUTH ONLY FROM OUR SIDE, AS THE TRUTH UNFORTUNATELY, YOU ARE SIMPLY BLIND OF, OBVIOUSLY AGAIN,  DOMINATED BY A DIFFERENT SPIRIT FROM MINE.

    THE FACT THAT YOU SIMPLY IGNORED WHAT I HINTED OUT FOR YOU, AS YOU, LIKE A CHILD,  ARE STILL LIKE SUSTAINED ON MILK WHEN IT COMES TO SCRIPTURE,  AND  NOT YET SPIRITUALLY MATURE ENOUGH  IN THE STATE OF YOUR MIND, IN SHORT

    STILL TO BE BORN  OF THE SPIRIT! 

    NOW READ AGAIN WHAT I SAID AND ANSWER PLEASE, AND DO NOT JUST BE STUBBORN AND IGNORE WHAT I POSTED TO YOU AGAIN:

    HERE WE GO:

    I REPEAT, THIS STATE, AS IT IS WRITTEN, IS VERY SIGNIFICANT AND  ALSO A REVELATION!

    7When the morning stars praised me together,

    and all the sons of God made a joyful melody?

    NOW  PONDER AND ASK YOURSELF:

    ONLY THE MORNING STARS WERE TOGETHER WHILE THEY PRAISED GOD IN A UNIQUE AND PARTICULAR WAY, DURING THE CREATION OF THE EARTH OF GENESIS 1:1? 

    WHY THE MORNING STARS WERE NOT ALSO SONS OF GOD?

    WHY THE SONS OF GOD WERE NOT ALSO TOGETHER WHEN THEY MADE A PARTICULAR JOYFUL MELODY?

    IN WHAT WAY THEN, THE MORNING STARS “ONLY” WERE TOGETHER?

    ONLY ALL THE SONS OF GOD MADE A PARTICULAR JOYFUL MELODY  DURING THE CREATION OF THE EARTH?

    WHAT THEN THIS PARTICULAR JOYFUL MELODY IS?

    NOW I WILL EXPAND AND MAKE THINGS CLEAR ONLY IN THE NEXT POST.

    TILL THEN I EXPECT YOU TO SAY SOMETHING BUT IF I WERE YOU,

    SIMPLY BE HUMBLE AND PRAY THE HOLY SPIRIT TO GIVE YOU LIGHT!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

    #946047
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi DT,

    You: You: JESUS and LUCIFER! THE VERY FIRST-EVER MARRIAGE

    Me: HA HA HA HA HA HA!! Don’t think I have ever read that in God’s word or anything interpreted as such

    John3:28 You yourselves do bear me witness, that I said, I am not Christ, but that I am sent before him. 

    29He that hath the bride, is the bridegroom:

    but the friend of the bridegroom, who standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth with joy because of the bridegroom’s voice. This my joy therefore is fulfilled.

    ANSWER DT:

    THE BRIDEGROOM IS DEFINITELY

    JESUS CHRIST!

    TELL ME NOW:

    WHO IS THE BRIDE IN THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE?

    You: What’s funny, science recently discovered stars emit a sound wave and they refer to it as the “symphony of the stars” – they “sing” and God revealed this to Job thousands of years ago. Again, just read what is there and quit reading between the lines of everything

    it has to be painful to have your mind constantly justifying every word you read to make it into something “spiritual.

    NOT AT ALL I JUST RECEIVE IT IMMEDIATELY WHILE I AM READING, ALWAYS WHEN AND HOW  IT PLEASES HIM.

    BY THE WAY: I NEVER SAID THEY WERE NOT SINGING, OK? JUST READ AGAIN WHAT I SAID IN THIS REGARD:

    IN WHAT WAY THEN, THE MORNING STARS “ONLY” WERE TOGETHER?

    THE SONS OF GOD WERE NOT ALSO

    TOGETHER WHILE MAKING A JOYFUL MELODY?

    LIKEWISE, IN WHAT WAY THE SONS OF GOD MADE A JOYFUL MELODY?

    JUST REFLECT A BIT FOR A WHILE,

    ISN’T  IT CLEAR TO YOU, THAT ALL THE ABOVE DETAILS REGARDING THE MORNING STARS AND THE SONS OF GOD, ARE THROUGHOUT A REFERENCE TO A SPIRITUAL PROCESS?

    THIS PHYSICAL  WORLD WAS NOT YET CREATED AT ALL?

    HOW ON EARTH, AT THIS EARLY STAGE OF CREATION, ONLY SPIRITUAL,  THE FACT THAT IT WAS IN FULL HARMONY WITH GOD WHO SPIRIT, AND FOR HIM

    FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING,

    A PERSON FAMILIAR WITH SCRIPTURE AND ITS MYSTERIES, SHOULD FOCUS ONLY ON SOMETHING MATERIAL THEN? 

    THAT PERSON FOR ME IS MORE THAN

    CARNALLY MINDED!

    SINCE HE IS IGNORING PRECISELY THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT IN TIME, THE BEGINNING OF CREATION,

    ONLY THE SPIRITUAL PROCESS OF CREATION.

    LIKE YOU I’M AFRAID! WITH EVERY RESPECT!!!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

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