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@DT
Gen.4
[1] And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
[2] And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
[3] And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
[4] And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
[5] But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.Why did Abel offer a sacrifice (a sacrificed animal) to God, and why did God accept his sacrifice but not that of his brother Cain?
Where did the Cain and Abel thing come from?!?!? Talk about random!! By the way, we’ve been over this before; do you not remember?? I asked you what it meant and you couldn’t tell me! Such “strong” beliefs you have when you can’t support what you believe; we call that being gullible.
You understand Psalm 22 is poetry…right!! So the events spoken aren’t to be taken literal. The next verse says “I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me”, so David’s bones have eyes?!!?
You need to change your name to “I’ll Believe Anything.” What you believe is false, when will you open your eyes!
So now you’re backing down when it comes to Cain and Abel!?
Why is that?You’re backing down regarding David’s clothes, too—yet that isn’t symbolic; it’s not just a casual figure of speech…
Reconsider your position, DT.(aka I’ll Believe Anything),
So now you’re backing down when it comes to Cain and Abel!?
Why is that?Backing down?!?!?! You have yet to explain anything and constantly shift topics!! You are the definition of “backing down”!! When you can’t explain why you believe what you believe or support your beliefs with G-d’s words (the Tanakh), it makes you a blind follower. In the case of christianity, a blind follower of a specific religious belief, where the only “correct” belief is theirs.
I’ve explained your Cain and Abel question, asked a series of questions that received no answers, I asked what you believed their sacrifices meant, and you ran away (backed down!!). In fact, I had to look up what you believe and posted the false nonsense of your goddess and you still had no response and ran away (backed down!!). Better look in the mirror before you throw around accusations like that!
You’re backing down regarding David’s clothes, too—yet that isn’t symbolic; it’s not just a casual figure of speech…
You accuse me of “backing down”; yet, I went thru the passage and the only person I found being talked about was David and never found a reference to the Jesus. What have you explained about this passages?
It’s NOT symbolic in the christian sense, it’s poetry!! It has imagery, have you ever read a poem or is that called entertainment and forbidden? Using the king Jimmy you love so much it says David’s bones have eyes, as his bones look and stare back at him. It’s written in black and white and therefore must be taken literally.
The bigger take away isn’t about me explaining or not explaining; it’s about YOU and your inability to explain your position! WHY DO YOU BELIEVE WHAT YOU BELIEVE!! SUPPORT IT!!
Reconsider your position, DT.
What “position” am I to reconsider?? Going back to a place where G-d is second to “the son”? Where our creator is an after thought? Maybe you need to verify why you believe what you believe instead of blindly hitting the “I Believe Button.”
In short, if there is anyone who is “backing down”, it’s not me, it’s christianity and every faith under her false umbrella. Start verifying everything you have been told it truth!
Hi
A COLOSSAL CLEANING
It’s not the most pleasant subject, but when a job has to be done, it has to be done. So—what’s the best toilet bowl cleaner on the market? Instead of providing a list of products, here is what many people say they want from a cleanser: It cleans with a single flush; it tackles the toughest stains; it prevents the build-up of toilet rings; it kills most germs; it eliminates odors; it has no harsh fumes; and it’s safe for plumbing and septic systems. Is all that too much to ask?
There’s a much bigger cleaning job that will take place at the end of the millennium, when God tackles the work of removing all sin from the universe. The apostle Peter explains that the cleaning agent used by the Lord is fire: “The elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up” (2 Peter 3:10).
Every impurity of sin will be eliminated by the fire that destroys the wicked. From the ashes of what is left over, God will create “a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away” (Revelation 21:1). Even better still, “God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away” (verse 4).
For those who desire to walk in the New Jerusalem, a cleansing work must include asking Christ to remove sin from the heart. In light of the coming judgment, Peter concludes, “Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness?” (2 Peter 3:11).
Apply It:
What does your favorite household cleaner teach you about getting rid of sin?
Dig Deeper:
1 John 1:9; 2 Peter 3:10–13; Revelation 21:1–8
Key Bible Texts
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. (2 Peter 3:10 KJV)Blessings
(aka I’ll Believe Anything),
Did you just “back down”?? YUP!! You sure did!!
You really need to explain the “millennial reign” because at the end Satan is to be released and deceive many; the question is why didn’t the king Jesus let everyone know this was going to happen and prepare them for this? What happened to the NT bible, did it disappear, was it no longer needed? You still haven’t explain chapter 11 and what John was measuring. Nor have you explained what the Jesus meant by “soon” in chapter 1 or in chapter 22. Soon to me doesn’t mean two millennia into the future.
Still waiting for anyone to explain Amos 3:7.
So many questions, but NO answers!!
Hi
Does the phrase “the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever” mean the fires of hell will never God out?
The word translated as “forever” in the Bible does not always mean “without end.” In fact, the Bible uses this term 56 times in connection with things that have already ended. (Sometimes you will need to look up the word “ever” in a concordance to find them.) For instance, in Exodus 21:1–6, the Hebrew servant was to serve his master “forever,” but it was obviously only as long as he lived. Hannah took her son Samuel to God’s house to abide “forever” (1 Samuel 1:22), but she plainly limited that time to “as long as he lives” (verse 28).
The term is clearly defined in Psalm 48:14: “For this is God, our God forever and ever; He will be our guide even to death.” The desolation of Edom was to ascend “forever” (Isaiah 34:10), yet we know that it does not still burn but, as the Bible says, lies in “waste.”
According to these definitions of the term “forever,” the wicked will suffer as long as they continue to live in the fire. Then, as the Bible states, “The wicked … shall be destroyed forever” (Psalm 92:7). This means that when the work of the fire is completed, it will go out. The Bible says these fires will “burn them up” and will leave them “neither root nor branch” and will leave “ashes under the soles of your feet” (Malachi 4:1–3).
And so the punishment of the wicked will be forever complete. It is not an everlasting state of torment, which would portray God as an evil sadist. Our loving Lord will blot sin out of existence because He knows it would eventually destroy our world and everyone in it.
Key Bible Texts
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: (Revelation 14:10 KJV)(IBA)
Your “devotional” is another fine example of parachute theology; I found a verse I like, it sounds like what I believe, and will then apply it to my belief system as proof.
You quote Mal 4:1-3, did you read the next verse??? “Remember the law of my servant Moses, to whom at Horeb I gave rules and regulations for all Israel to obey.” The previous three verses applies to Israel not to a “christian” who survived the christian’s version of the final judgment. The “law” spoken of are the “laws” given to Moses, the 613 laws the Israelite’s said they would follow!! In a previous post YOU stated CONTEXT is important, but here you have taken the context of Israel and apply it to your “christian” belief system. It would seem context isn’t as important as you say it is and your belief supersedes the truth!
Still waiting for you to tell me about what John was measuring in Rev 11 as it would point to him measuring the second Temple as it stood in the first century. Which would then place the book of Revelation BEFORE its destruction and render everything christianity says about the “End Time” as false.
What about when the Jesus says soon in Rev 1:1; 22:6,7,12,20. My understanding of soon isn’t 2000 years. Even at the foundations of your faith they said the Jesus was returning in THEIR day and many sold everything and waited for the Jesus who never came. This event was called “The Great Disappointment” and these people, who now had nothing, left the lies of this false church. Yet today you still cling to the lies that where proven false when this faith first began.
The Jesus isn’t the Messiah spoken of in the Tanakh and he isn’t returning…ever, thus making him a false messiah.
Prove what you believe is truth!! When will you begin verifying what you have been told is truth??
Still waiting for you to tell me about what John was measuring in Rev 11 as it would point to him measuring the second Temple as it stood in the first century. Which would then place the book of Revelation BEFORE its destruction and render everything christianity says about the “End Time” as false.
Why is that?
If Revelation was written, say, in AD 65–68, and Revelation 11 was referring to Jerusalem and the Second Temple shortly before their destruction in AD 70, then John would be describing judgement on Jerusalem before it happened. On that reading, the destruction of the city could be regarded as a fulfilment of part of the prophecy.
While I am no expert, John is seeing a vision and visions are full of symbols and as such, the meaning is not always clear. But in time, the meaning becomes clearer when events go in that direction.
You, as do others critics, seem to think that God should have spelled everything out so clearly, that even the enemies of God could have understood it and therefore, not fulfil it.
“None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.”
So let’s get real here. If the Old Testament said that a man called Yeshua / Jesus (whatever language) was going to be crucified by the Romans and this sacrifice would set up a kingdom that would topple all other kingdoms, then surely they would probably just put him in prison for the rest of his life. Come on. A little common sense goes a long way.
There are examples of rulers knowing about Jewish prophecies of a coming king and being worried by them. The clearest example is Herod the Great. In Matthew 2:3-6, Herod hears that the “king of the Jews” has been born. He asks the Jewish priests and teachers where the Messiah was supposed to be born, and they quote Micah 5:2, which points to Bethlehem. Herod then tries to remove what he sees as a threat.
A later example involves the Roman emperor Domitian. According to Eusebius, Domitian searched for descendants of King David because he was concerned about the coming of Christ. Two relatives of Jesus were questioned about their family line and about Christ’s kingdom.
This shows that Roman rulers could take Jewish Messianic claims seriously, especially when they appeared to threaten their power.
Jesus was crucified and, to the rulers, that probably looked like the end of the threat of a Messiah and king. But in killing him, they actually fulfilled passages that Christians believe pointed to the Messiah’s suffering and death. See Isaiah 53:4–6, Isaiah 53:8, Isaiah 53:11–12, Daniel 9:26, Psalm 22, and Zechariah 12:10.
For the idea of sacrifice and forgiveness of sin, see Leviticus 4:35 and Leviticus 17:11. The New Testament then applies this directly to Jesus in John 1:29:
“Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”.What about when the Jesus says soon in Rev 1:1; 22:6,7,12,20. My understanding of soon isn’t 2000 years. Even at the foundations of your faith they said the Jesus was returning in THEIR day and many sold everything and waited for the Jesus who never came. This event was called “The Great Disappointment” and these people, who now had nothing, left the lies of this false church. Yet today you still cling to the lies that where proven false when this faith first began.
Psalm 90:4:
“A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by.”2 Peter 3:8:
“With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.”It seems they did not understand this, just as you do not understand it. Humans tend to think in very short timeframes because our lives are short. But when speaking of an eternal God, we need to understand that time is viewed differently.
Also:
“The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness.”
&
“Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
And saying, “Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.”Is this not you?
You understand Psalm 22 is poetry…right!! So the events spoken aren’t to be taken literal. The next verse says “I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me”, so David’s bones have eyes?!!?
It means something, and it is far more likely to relate to the fulfilment of prophecy than to be a random verse with no real significance.
All scripture is inspired by God.
Proclaimer, Revelation was written 96 ce. Its 100% about these last days. The world has been watching the things said in it for many years now. There is a lot of symbolism, only the teachers on Earth who have Jesus can understand it.
That is the consensus, but it is by no means certain.
If the Jerusalem Temple had already been destroyed, John could be measuring a symbolic temple rather than a physical building. He is told to measure not only the temple and altar, but also “those who worship there” (Revelation 11:1). Elsewhere in the New Testament, believers are called God’s temple (1 Corinthians 3:16; Ephesians 2:21–22). This suggests the temple represents God’s people.
But if the temple is not destroyed because the writing is earlier, then it could be referencing the actual temple. I certainly have no opinion on this right now.
Where do I begin?!?!? You aren’t connecting the dots. IF you were willing to engage in an actual conversation, it would be wonderful; then we could have a back and forth, asking and answering questions, and explaining our thoughts. What I’ve been finding out, for the christian at least, it’s one sided; it’s what is believed by them, or nothing.
Concerning the Revelation comment, I’ve explained that connection starting in Matthew 24 where the Jesus tells the disciples it would be their generation who would see the destruction of the Temple (even quotes Daniel) and after that they would see his return. In I Peter he speaks to the scattered (remember Israel was dispersed) saying “in these last times”; he is speaking to those as if it’s the latter days and the Jesus is returning. Even the liar Paul speaks in the present to those in Thessalonica about taking comfort in the Lords return when he says “we who are alive…we will be together with the Lord always.” Even the anti-G-d Paul was expecting the return of the Jesus in his life time.
In Peter’s second epistle there is the change in expectation of the Jesus’ return and we get the “thousand years is but a day”; Peter realized the Jesus wasn’t returning as he said he would. To make the connection to Ps 90:4 is great, but are we looking with understanding or just parallel words?
“Indeed, a thousand years in Your eyes are like yesterday gone by.” Time, as we know, is irrelevant to God. For Him, a thousand years are like a day in the past; they leave but a memory. “Like a watch of the night.” A period of time that goes unnoticed by those who sleep through the watch.
Of course time is different for us than for G-d; HE created it and gave it to mankind as a tool of measure, HE isn’t bound by it, isn’t subject to it, and lives outside it. So I do understand this concept and have repeated these words many times. In the case of Peter, although the time concept is there, it isn’t what he was trying to convey. Peter was reasoning away why the Jesus didn’t return when he said he would and was still expecting him to return in his lifetime.
When G-d does speak with a time table, is it for HIS benefit or ours? Does HE speak to mankind mysteriously or plainly? This then goes back to the Jesus telling the disciples of his return after the Temple destruction and saying he was coming “quickly” and “soon” in Revelation; was this for G-d’s benefit or ours? So it’s not about those in the first century or me today “failing to understanding” what time means to G-d, but NT believers not understanding that G-d communicates in the way man understands and not in some lofty way to confuse.
You as do others seem to think that God should have spelled everything out so clearly, that even the enemies of God could have understood it and therefore, not fulfill it.
You keep returning to this idea; now explain Amos 3:7, “Certainly the sovereign LORD does nothing without first revealing his plan to his servants the prophets.” Apparently, G-d does reveal his plan first. You keep speaking of this “enemy” that could somehow thwart the plans of G-d…REALLY!!! Who?? This rolls back to after the millennial reign of the Jesus when Satan is released to deceive many. What happened to the NT during this period as it explains what is going to happen, since Satan is bound in the abyss he can no longer be deceiving anyone so the world must be sinless, and isn’t the great king the Jesus suppose to be ruling during this time and he didn’t warn of the deception and how to protect against this deception at the end of this 1000 years?!? Something isn’t adding up!
Along the same line of G-d revealing HIS plan, HE DID reveal the kind of individual HIS Messiah will be and what he’ll do when he does come…been over that too! The only thing the Jesus fulfilled according to the Tanakh was he was Jewish. When did G-d say he was sending a miracle worker, a man who would have the authority to forgive sin, a man who would die for the forgiveness of sin (human sacrifice), be raised from the dead, ascend to heaven to sit at G-d’s side. All of this would have been prophesied by the prophets and there is NONE of this in the Tanakh.
In fact, it’s the opposite; the Jesus never speaks of gathering the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel; never about rebuilding the Temple that was standing while he was alive; will rule at a time of world wide peace; will rule when the Jewish people will observe G-d’s commandments (all 613); rule when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d, not just those who “believe” in the Jesus; this Messiah will rule with true justice that G-d instills in him. He will be a man, not some divine being as the NT teaches.
It means something, and it is far more likely to relate to the fulfilment of prophecy than to be a random verse with no real significance.
In your next post concerning Ps 22; what is the prophetic correlation to the Jesus of David lamenting over being surrounded by his enemies and speaking of what they will do to him if he is caught? This isn’t a “random verse”, this is David speaking from the heart and knowing G-d would deliver him from his enemies. Do we read from the same bible??
All scripture is inspired by God.
I guess that would depend on what side you are speaking of. The first half, absolutely, G-d spoke thru his prophets all the time; the second half, highly questionable. How many lies can there be in the NT before it isn’t the “inspired word of G-d”? The book of Matthew is loaded, the book of Hebrews should be ripped out for all the lies and twistings that are in it, and where does one begin with Paul and his deception?
The underlying question that still must be answered is whether or not the Jesus is the true Messiah spoken of in the Tanakh and what did he fulfill, if anything, that is spoken of the true Messiah.
Question and verify everything!
Why do I say Revelation was written before the destruction of the Temple, the words written place it before its destruction.
Rev 1:7 (Look! He is returning with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all the tribes on the earth will mourn because of him. This will certainly come to pass! Amen.)
Even those who pierced him (the Jesus) will see his return. Who pierced the Jesus 40 years prior and will be alive to see the Jesus return? All those involved in his death.
Rev 2:9 I know the distress you are suffering and your poverty (but you are rich). I also know the slander against you by those who call themselves Jews and really are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Rev 3:9 Listen! I am going to make those people from the synagogue of Satan – who say they are Jews yet are not, but are lying – Look, I will make them come and bow down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.
Who did the Jesus say was the father of the religious leaders (John 8:44)? Who persecuted the early church (read Acts)? That power came from the religious leaders while the Temple stood.
Rev 10:11 Then they told me: “You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, languages, and kings.”
If John was an old man at the end of the first century when Revelation is claimed to be written, how does he go out to prophecy to “many peoples, nations, languages, and kings”? A younger John can receive this commission to go out into the world.
Rev 11:1 Then a measuring rod like a staff was given to me, and I was told, “Get up and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and the ones who worship there.”
What temple was John measuring and it is speaking in the present of those worshiping there. Can’t worship in a temple that has been destroyed.
Rev 17:9 (This requires a mind that has wisdom.) The seven heads are seven mountains the woman sits on. They are also seven kings: 10 five have fallen; one is, and the other has not yet come, but whenever he does come, he must remain for only a brief time.
Who are the seven kings spoken of? Since John was writing this during Roman captivity, it would make sense the kings are from the Roman Empire. The first five have fallen Julius, Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius. The “one who is” would be Nero who reigned from 54-68 is the sixth one who reigned. The one yet to come who lasts “a brief time” is Galba, who held the throne barely seven months before he was cut down. If we use the year 95 for the written date, Domitian was emperor in this period and was the twelfth and doesn’t fit what John wrote.
Rev 1:1,3 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must happen very soon. He made it clear by sending his angel to his servant John. Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy aloud, and blessed are those who hear and obey the things written in it, because the time is near!
At the beginning of the book John is told of events that “must happen very soon” because “the time is near.” This is a sound of urgency, not kick this can down the road for 2000 years. This is a time frame spoken to a man who has an understanding of time as given to him by G-d.
Rev 22:6,7,12,20
6. Then the angel said to me, “These words are reliable and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent his angel to show his servants what must happen soon.” 7. (Look! I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy expressed in this book.)
12. Look! I am coming soon
20. The one who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon!”
Four times the word “soon” is used in chapter 22! First to say the events described will take place soon and the next three to signify the Jesus’ return. Note the sound of urgency again and the usage of exclamation points!! These opening and closing statements are encapsulating the events spoken of in this book.
Why do I include these passages to say Revelation was written before the Temple’s destruction, because that is what the Jesus said in Matthew 24 when he told the disciples the Temple was coming down and it was their generation that would see it.
Prove me wrong!
@ DT
for he was cut off out of the land of the living:
👉 for the transgression of my people👈 was he stricken.Isaiah 53:8b states that the Servant is stricken “for the sins of MY PEOPLE.” If the prophet Isaiah says “my people” (Israel), the Servant who suffers in their place must logically be SOMEONE ELSE: an individual DISTINCT from the nation.
Doesn’t that make sense?
To me, it does.(IBA)
Are you really this obtuse?!?!? The “my people” isn’t a reference to Israel and Isaiah isn’t the “speaker” in this part; it’s a reference to the nations.
When are you going to identify who is speaking where?? Once you do that, your muddy water will suddenly become clear.
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