John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

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Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 25,201 through 25,220 (of 25,995 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #945687
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    Thanks for clearing that up.
    So, it is perfectly okay to worship them both.

     

     

    #945688
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You: he is not called the “Son of God”

    until after the Spirit came to dwell in him (Matthew 4:3)

    Me: JESUS WAS CALLED THE SON OF GOD

    TWICE BEFORE HE WAS BORN!

     Scripture 1:31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus. 

    32He shall be great,

    and shall be called

    the Son of the most High;

    and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father; and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. 33And of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? 35And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee.

    And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called

    the Son of God.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

     

    #945689
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    SonofGod…….your post # 945680.  is spot on brother, that’s the way I see also.  The word is God’s expression to his creation, and when we speak it. We are indeed sharing in the word, of God, Just as Jesus did.

    peace and love to you and yours SonofGod …………gene

    #945690
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Carmel,

    Notice, 

    1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I WILL BE his father, and he SHALL BE my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

    Luke 1:31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and WILL BE called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.

    Luke 4:3 The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.”

    Notice how the devil asks him to prove he is the Son of God by using the powers of the Spirit that HE HAD BEEN BEGOTTEN WITH at the river Jordan.

    Notice how what Luke says speaks directly to 1 Chronicles 17. According to Luke, a child is going to be born of the house of David, he is GOING TO BE GREAT and he is GOING TO BE CALLED the Son of the Highest and he IS GOING  TO receive an eternal kingdom.

    Jesus is great through the words and miracles he performs through being made into God’s Son, through being begotten of the Spirit, the ONLY mortal man to have God’s Spirit abode in him without measure.

    Jesus said that a man must be born of water and of the Spirit to enter into the kingdom of God, this was in direct response to Nicodemus telling Jesus that he could not be doing these great works unless God was with him. Jesus himself was a man and he himself was born of water and of the Spirit. This is affirmed as absolute truth as Jesus also said that people would be baptized with the baptism he received and that they would drink of the cup (cup of the One Spirit) that he drinks of but to sit on his right hand or his left in the kingdom is up to the Father. Also affirmed when Jesus said, “Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration (new birth) when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” 

    According to 1 Chronicles which Luke directly aligns with, FIRST you have a son of David, a man born of the flesh and THEN he is made into a Son, he is born of the Spirit and then he indeed enters the kingdom of God and we wait for him to sit on his father David’s throne also as was promised unto a son of David.

    Also absolute truth is that the Messiah would receive the Spirit to abode in him, the Messiah would be called to righteousness and the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth and the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Jesus was perfected by his suffering on the cross, he could not be held to the penalty of death and when he was resurrected he received the promised Spirit and God said “this day I have begotten you” and this Son of Man was exalted to God’s right hand, entering into God’s house, His kingdom just as promised.

    The word is true and this is simple to understand. A man must be born of the Spirit to enter into the kingdom of God because the Spirit causes righteousness and therefore brings forth eternal life. If the Son of Man is sitting at God’s right hand it would only be because he has been born of the Spirit, made into a Son. If the Son of Man has eternal life it would only be because he was born of the Spirit. We are to follow the Son of Man in the New Birth, drink of the cup of the One Spirit that he drinks of, be born of the Spirit, and we get to enter into God’s kingdom where we will see this Son of Man sitting on the throne of his glory.

     

    #945691
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    Me: AGAIN LOADS OF SCRIPTURE BUT YOUR MENTALITY  AND BELIEF ARE ENTIRELY WRONG.

    You: Notice how the devil asks him to prove he is the Son of God by using the powers of the Spirit that HE HAD BEEN BEGOTTEN WITH at the river Jordan

    The above is a confirmation that you are not SPIRITUALLY MINDED AT ALL!

    JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, WAS NOT IN THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WHEN HE WAS TEMPTED AT ALL!

    FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THE DEVIL WOULD HAVE BEEN TEMPTING GOD THE FATHER! 

    IN THE SAME WAY, EVE WAS, NOT WITHIN THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AS ADAM WAS DIRECTLY FROM GOD!

    THE FACT THAT THE DEVIL HAD NO POWER OVER ADAM!

    JESUS WAS ESTABLISHED AS THE SON OF MAN, AND ETERNAL LIFE, EVEN BEFORE THE WORLD WAS,  John 6:62, 3:13! HIDDEN AND UNKNOWN TO THE HEAVENLY HOSTS FOR THE SAKE OF THEIR FREE WILL.

    HE CAME ON EARTH AS PROOF THAT AS A HUMAN BEING IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN, TANGIBLY SPEAKING,

    IS UNIQUE FROM GOD, NOT FROM THE EARTH, AND NOTHING SATANIC IN EVERY SENSE!  John14:30

    THE FACT THAT THE DEVIL WANTED TO TEMPT HIM!

    IF JESUS WAS OF THE EARTH, THE DEVIL WOULD HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE WITHIN JESUS’ SOUL AND WAS NOT JUSTIFIED AS THE MESSIAH, REDEEMER, OF THE HUMAN RACE, ALL SATANIC IN THEIR FLESH, FROM EVE’S SIN, CONCERNING JESUS’ BIRTH, BORN OF A VIRGIN, WITHOUT A PROPER HUSBAND, LIKE HE WAS IN ALL HUMANS’ SOULS, FROM ADAM’ S SIN, BORN THROUGH FORNICATION,  UP TO THAT MOMENT IN TIME OF JESUS’ BAPTISM!

    THE FACT THAT JESUS

    FULFILLED ALL JUSTICE!

    fulfilled all righteousness, and acquired many brethren, in HIM!

    THROUGH HIS BAPTISM!

    THIS MEANS, THAT JESUS ON  HIS BAPTISM ERADICATED THE DEVIL FROM HIS NORMAL DOMINION OVER HUMANITY,

    PRECISELY IN THE BODY OF JESUS, THE REASON HE WAS BAPTIZED; SIMPLY FOR OUR SAKE,  THE FACT THAT HE WAS PROCEEDED, CAME FORTH, AND SENT FROM THE FATHER.

    THUS JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, SIMPLY 

    ESTABLISHED THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE AND THE PROCESS OF THE ENTIRE WORLD  ALL PERFECT IN JESUS’BODY, JERUSALEM,  IMMEDIATELY:

    FIRST ONCE HE WENT DOWN AND CAST THE DEVIL INTO HIS HEADQUARTERS/HELL OR WHATEVER IT MAY HAPPEN TO BE,

    FOR THE FIRST-EVER TIME ON EARTH LOCKED AND SUBJECT TO

    “THE WORD” made flesh, THE SON OF MAN, JESUS, 

    WELL DEPICTED IN

    Mark 3:27 No man can enter into the house of a strong man and rob him of his goods,

    unless he first bind the strong man,

    and then shall he plunder his house.

    THEN, AS SOON AS HE CAME OUT OF THE WATER, SIMPLY TO BE DECLARED OFFICIALLY BY HIS FATHER, THAT

    HE, GOD THE FATHER, WAS WELL PLEASED BY

    JESUS’ UNIQUE TASK  IN HIS FATHER’S BUSINESS ON EARTH, SATANIC,  RIGHT FROM THE AGE OF THIRTEEN, UNDER THE CARNAL LAW OF MOSES, AND IN THE HARSHES SPIRITUAL WARFARE AGAINST SATAN AND CO. NOT POSSIBLE TO BE WON BY ANY HUMAN OF THIS SATANIC WORLD, SUBJECT TO SATAN,  BUT POSSIBLE ONLY THROUGHOUT  JESUS’ HIDDEN EIGHTEEN YEARS, TILL THE VERY  TIME OF HIS BAPTISM, BY WHICH BAPTISM, AS MENTIONED ABOVE;

    JESUS ACCOMPLISHED ALL JUSTICE/RIGHTEOUSNESS IN HIM AS A HUMAN BEING NOT OF THE WORLD,

    HENCE NOT INDEBTED TO SATAN,

    AND THAT JESUS WAS  

    THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF THE FATHER!

    I REPEAT; WHEN HE CAME OUT OF THE WATER!

     I have not time to check this out I’m afraid!

    More to come!

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #945692
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Carmel,

    The original transcripts were spiritual, pure in God’s truth. Interpretation of a passage can ONLY stand in truth if it aligns with the sum of all scripture. If understanding of a passage is difficult, the answer can always be found directly elsewhere within the bible. To be spiritually minded is to take clear and simple truths given in the bible and apply them directly to other scriptures. Very easy to misinterpret a passage if you are ignorant to the teachings of other passages. 

    What spiritually minded is absolutely not, is belief that God intentionally made scripture to be not what it appears to be and then He chooses certain men to be spiritually minded so that they can then tell us what the actual truth is supposed to be.

    Spiritually minded is the opposite of that which the imagination of the minds of men create, the likes of ignorant and absurd superstitions, to cleverly constructed deceptive doctrines.

    YOU:JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, WAS NOT IN THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WHEN HE WAS TEMPTED AT ALL!

    ME: Luke 4:1-2 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry.

     

    #945694
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi……”right on”.   Simple truth, backed up in many scriptures in both, the old and new testaments.    That what I call “the truth”.  Not some man made “mystery religion” that so many false churches preach today. These people try to make it out to be some kinda of “spiritual ” truth they preach, while  it is a Spirit alright, but it is the “SPIRIT OF DELUSION ”  Given them from God , “in order for them to believe a “LIE” , because they received not the love of the truth”.  2Th2 .

    peace and love to you and yours Jodi………gene

    #945695
    carmel
    Participant

    .

    #945696
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You: Luke 4:1-2 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, where for forty days he was tempted by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry.

    Me: JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, WAS NOT IN THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WHEN HE WAS TEMPTED AT ALL!

    FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT

    THE DEVIL WOULD HAVE BEEN TEMPTING GOD THE FATHER! 

    COMMON SENSE Jodi and Gene!

    THE DEVIL WAS NEVER READY TO TEMPT JESUS AS THE SON OF GOD!

    THE FACT THAT SATAN NEVER BELIEVED THAT JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD!

     ONLY AFTER GUDAH KISSED JESUS HE BECAME AWARE OF IT.

    Read: Luke 4:3 And the devil said to him:

    If thou be the Son of God,…….

    THE DEVIL’S JOB IN THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT IN TIME, FIRST AND FOREMOST, WAS ONLY ALLOWED TO COME OUT OF HELL TO TEMPT AND TEST

    A HUMAN BEING IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN!

    THE SON OF MAN!

     

    JESUS’HUMAN NATURE!

     

    NOT THE SON OF GOD, JESUS’ DIVINE NATURE IN THE HOLY GHOST, EMPOWERED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD.

    THE FACT THAT JESUS FASTED AND WAS HUNGRY!

    IF JESUS WAS UNDER THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT HE WOULDN’T BE IN A POSITION TO FAST AT ALL NEVER MIND BECOMING HUNGRY!

    THOUGH THE HUNGER JESUS HAD WAS NOT FOR NORMAL BREAD, BUT

    SPIRITUAL BREAD, SOULS! John4:32

    WHO UP TO THAT MOMENT IN TIME WERE UNDER SATAN’S DOMINION.

    IT IS PURE NONSENSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE DEVIL KNEW AND TEMPTED THE SON OF GOD, JESUS’DIVINE NATURE, IN THE HOLY GHOST, AND IN THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT.

    I REPEAT: HE TEMPTED

    THE SON OF MAN, JESUS’HUMAN NATURE!

    SATAN WAS MORE THAN CONVINCED THAT NO HUMAN BEING COULD BE BORN SINLESS AND ACHIEVE REDEMPTION FOR THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE SINCE THEY WERE

    ALL INDEBTED TO HIM THROUGH THE SIN IN THE GARDEN AND THE EVENTUAL SEXUAL  ACT!

    Psalm:49:7 No brother can redeem, nor shall man redeem: he shall not give to God his ransom,

    ALSO, SATAN WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT  SOMEHOW, HE HAD INTERMINGLED HIS SPIRIT WITH JESUS’ GENEALOGY/CONCEPTION!

    You: Luke 4:1-2 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and

    was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

    Jodi and in this case Gene, WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT JESUS WAS IN THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT WHEN HE WENT INTO THE WILDERNESS?

    JESUS WAS ONLY LED BY THE SPIRIT!

    IT IS ONLY YOUR CORRUPTED MENTALITY!

    Now read please:

    Luke 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the spirit, into Galilee,……

    THE ABOVE VERSE CLEARLY SAYS THAT JESUS, ONLY AFTER HE LEFT THE DESERT WAS IN THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #945704
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel…….If you don’t know that Jesus received the Spirit “after he was baptized”,  by John at the Jordan river, and “then” was sent out into the wilderness “by the Spirit,” where he was tested for forty days and nights,  then you are not even a Novice yet, when it come to knowing what the scriptures actually say. That’s all you do is muddy the waters of truth here, IMO.

    peace and love to you and yours Carmel……….gene

    #945705
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    You: Carmel…….If you don’t know that Jesus received the Spirit “after he was baptized”,  by John at the Jordan river, and “then” was sent out into the wilderness “by the Spirit,” where he was tested for forty days and nights,  then you are not even a Novice yet, when it come to knowing what the scriptures actually say. That’s all you do is muddy the waters of truth here, IMO.

    Me: Gene, IT’S  NO USE TALKING NONSENSE JUST

    PRODUCE THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS THAT JESUS 

    WAS IN THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT WHEN HE WENT INTO THE WILDERNESS.

    JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, WAS ONLY LED BY THE SPIRIT INTO THE WILDERNESS, SIMPLY TO BE TESTED BY SATAN, AND JUSTIFY HIMSELF THAT HE A UNIQUE HUMAN BEING ON EARTH, WAS IN TRUTH THE MESSIAH, PROVIDED THAT JESUS WAS NOT IN THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT!

    SATAN’S POINT WAS THAT THE MESSIAH WOULD NOT BE EMPOWERED BY THE SPIRIT AND FULFILL HIS MISSION, UNLESS FIRST AND BEFORE HE TESTED HIM. THE ONLY WAY FOR JESUS TO BE JUSTIFIED AS THE MESSIAH. THEN IMMEDIATELY JESUS LEFT THE DESERT HE WAS BACK IN THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT JUSTIFIED AS THE MESSIAH AND READY FOR HIS PUBLIC LIFE IN THE NAME OF GOD THE FATHER! AS SIMPLE AS THAT!

    THAT WAS THE  ONLY WAY OUT  AND HOPE FOR SATAN TO PROVE THAT JESUS WAS NOT THE MESSIAH.

    SATAN WOULDN’T HAVE ACCEPTED AT ALL TO TEST THE MESSIAH EMPOWERED BY THE SPIRIT BEFORE HE TESTED HIM, AND JESUS AS A HUMAN BEING COULD IN NO WAY ESTABLISH HIMSELF AS THE MESSIAH UNLESS TESTED BY SATAN.

    IT IS ONLY YOUR CORRUPTED MENTALITY TO THINK OTHERWISE!

    AFTER THE TEST, SATAN HAD TO RETURN TO HIS HEADQUARTERS LOCKED, MAKE ROOM FOR JESUS TO FULFILL HIS MISSION, AND SUBJECT ONLY TO JESUS/GOD ON EARTH TO COME OUT AGAIN. 

    Now read AGAIN please:

    Luke 4:14 And Jesus returned IN THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT, into Galilee,……

    THE ABOVE VERSE CLEARLY SAYS THAT JESUS,  WAS IN THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT ONLY AFTER HE LEFT THE DESERT.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #945706
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @ Carmel

    Hi Carmel,

    You: THE FACT THAT SATAN NEVER BELIEVED THAT JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD!
    ONLY AFTER GUDAH KISSED JESUS HE BECAME AWARE OF IT.

    Me: Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

    #945707
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You: What spiritually minded is absolutely not, is the belief that God intentionally made scripture to be not what it appears to be and then He chooses certain men to be spiritually minded so that they can then tell us what the actual truth is supposed to be.

    Now Jodi, let’s see if what you said above is THE TRUTH!!!

    Luke 4:3 The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.”

    You: Notice how the devil asks him to prove he is the Son of God by using the powers of the Spirit that HE HAD BEEN BEGOTTEN WITH at the river Jordan.

    Me: Now read again Jodi, what I said in my post the one before the last, referring to your statement above:

    Me: The above is a confirmation that you are not

    SPIRITUALLY MINDED AT ALL!

    Attention please Jodi,  I already made clear in my post to Gene, that what you said above is NOT THE TRUTH, AS THE DEVIL NEVER ASKED JESUS TO PROVE HIMSELF THAT HE IS THE SON OF GOD BY USING THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT

    AND TURN THE STONE INTO BREAD,  AS YOU FALSELY SAID AND BELIEVE!

    CONVINCED THAT JESUS WAS A MERE MAN, SUBJECT TO HIM, AND HIS TASK WAS TO MAKE JESUS FALL! 

    Now let’s read verse 2 of this particular caption:

    Luke 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended,

    he afterward hungered.

    Now, HUMBLY SPEAKING, GUIDED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, WITH A SPIRITUAL MIND, AND NOTHING AT ALL  BY MY WISDOM,  I am going to ask you a question which I expect an answer from you also subject to YOUR SPIRITUAL MIND.

    Luke 4:3 The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.”

    WHAT DID THE DEVIL MEAN WHEN HE ASKED JESUS TO TURN THE STONE INTO BREAD?

    IF SATAN WAS CONVINCED THAT JESUS WAS A MERE MAN, WASN’T HE ALSO CONVINCED THAT JESUS WAS NOT IN THE POSITION TO PERFORM SUCH POWERFUL DEED? HE WAS NO?

    SO WHAT DID HE MEAN REALLY, WITH THAT KIND OF EXTRAORDINARY STATEMENT?

    You: What spiritually minded is absolutely not, is the belief that God intentionally made scripture to be not what it appears to be and then He chooses certain men to be spiritually minded so that they can then tell us what the actual truth is supposed to be.

    Me: fine Jodi,

    IT’S YOUR TURN NOW TO JUSTIFY WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE?

    JUST TO GIVE YOU A HINT,

    SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING, REFLECT PLEASE:

    ON THE STONE AND THE BREAD!

    AND ALSO ON

    JESUS’ HUNGER!

     

    I AM WAITING!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #945708
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi DD,

    You: Hi Carmel,

    You: THE FACT THAT SATAN NEVER BELIEVED THAT JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD!
    ONLY AFTER GUDAH KISSED JESUS HE BECAME AWARE OF IT.

    Me: Luke 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

    Me:

    Danny, if you read again what I said , I never used the word “DEVILS” AS THERE ARE MANY DEVILS!

    But I was specific and used the name:

    SATAN/ LUCIFER!

    JUST READ WHAT JESUS DID TO THE DEVILS AGAIN AND REFLECT PLEASE:

    And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak:

    for they knew that he was Christ.

    WHY DID JESUS ORDER THE DEVILS NOT TO SPEAK?

    SATAN WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO NEVER BELIEVED THAT JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD!

    THUS JESUS WANTED THEM NOT TO CONVINCE HIM THAT HE WAS IN ANY WAY!

    ALL THE DEVILS REMAINED IN THE WORLD WHERE THEY WERE IN HUMAN SOULS, IT WAS JESUS’ TASK TO REMOVE THEM AS PROOF THAT HE WAS THE SON OF GOD.

    SATAN WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT WAS CAST INTO HELL BY FORCE, BY AND ON JESUS’ BAPTISM BY JOHN/MICHAEL, SENT PURPOSELY BY GOD FOR SUCH TASK,  THE ONLY ANGEL WHO HAS POWER OVER SATAN!

    WELL HINTED OUT BY JESUS IN

    Luke 10:18 And he said to them: I saw Satan like lightening falling from heaven.

    THE FACT THAT A WAR OCCURRED IN HEAVEN, AND JOHN WAS KILLED!

    Matthew 11: 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent bear it away. 

    THE FACT ALSO THAT JESUS ON HIS BAPTISM FULFILLED ALL JUSTICE,  ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS, PRECISELY ONCE SATAN, WHO DOMINATED THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE SATANIC, AND THE PROCESS OF THE WORLD FROM ADAM’S SIN, WAS REMOVED BY FORCE AND MADE ROOM FOR JESUS TO FULFILL HIS PUBLIC LIFE IN THE NAME OF GOD THE FATHER WITHOUT ANY INTERFERENCE AT ALL FROM HIS DIRECT ENEMY, PLUS THAT  FROM THAT MOMENT ON SATAN WAS NOT ALLOWED TO ENTER HEAVEN AND DEMAND JUSTICE  ANYMORE TILL JESUS ACCOMPLISHED ALL AND ENTERED HEAVEN GLORIFIED  AS 

    JESUS CHRIST

    GODMAN!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #945709
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You: Jesus is great through the words and miracles he performs

    through being made into God’s Son,

    THE ABOVE IS ENTIRELY  YOUR FIRST INVENTION AND IMAGINATION!

    JESUS NEVER BECAME THE SON OF GOD ON A PARTICULAR MOMENT IN TIME, BUT HE WAS ETERNALLY THE SON OF GOD BEFORE CREATION STARTED! Well pinpointed out in

    Matthew 11:27 All things are delivered to me by my Father. And no one knoweth the Son, but the Father: neither doth anyone know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom it shall please the Son to reveal him.

    BOTH ETERNALLY KNOW EACH OTHER!

    John 17:5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world was, with thee.

    Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, and hear this:

    I have not spoken in secret from THE BEGINNING: John1:1

     from the time BEFORE IT WAS DONE,

    BEFORE CREATION WAS DONE:

    I was there,

    and now the Lord God HATH SENT ME,

    and HIS SPIRIT.

    HATH SENT ME, JESUS THE SON OF MAN, “THE WORD” MADE FLESH,

    AND HIS SPIRIT, JESUS THE SON OF GOD THE HOLY GHOST.

     

    John4:36 And HE THAT REAPETH RECEIVETH WAGES, and gathereth fruit unto life everlasting:

    HE THAT REAPETH RECEIVETH WAGES, A CLEAR REFERENCE TO

    THE SON OF GOD, THE HOLY GHOST IN JESUS’ SOUL, JESUS’ DIVINE NATURE.

    that both HE THAT SOWETH,

    HE THAT SOWETH, “THE WORD” JESUS THE SON OF MAN, JESUS’ HUMAN NATURE

    Matthew 13:37……He that soweth the good seed, is the Son of man.

    HE  THAT REPEATH,

    HE THAT REPEATH, THE HOLY GHOST, THE SON OF GOD, JESUS’ DIVINE NATURE 

    Matthew 3:11 ….he shall baptize you in the Holy Ghost and fire. 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his floor and gather his wheat into the barn; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.

    may rejoice together. 

    REJOICE TOGETHER ON THE CROSS! John13:31,32

    THEY ARE NOT TWO ANYMORE BUT INTEGRATED INTO ONE SUBSTANCE, 

    TWO IN ONE SPIRITUAL FLESH BODY BOTH GLORIFIED in

    JESUS CHRIST

    GODMAN!

    37For in this is the saying true: That it is one man that soweth, and it is another that reapeth. 

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #945710
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    Hi Carmel,

    So the demons knew that Jesus was the Son of God, but their master, Satan, did not?
    What you are saying doesn’t make sense.

    #945711
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi DD,

    So the demons knew that Jesus was the Son of God, but their master, Satan, did not?
    What you are saying doesn’t make sense.

    There are many instances in scripture that do not make sense to us, but that doesn’t mean they are not true!

    Read hereunder please and reflect:

    Luke 8:18 Take heed therefore how you hear.

    For whosoever hath, to him shall be given: 

    and whosoever hath not,

    that also which he thinketh he hath,

    shall be taken away from him.

    IT IS GOD IN JESUS THAT PREVENTED SATAN NOT TO BELIEVING IN JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, THAT HE WAS ALSO THE SON OF GOD/GOD ON EARTH!

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #945722
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel , you quoted…….”Luke 8:18 Take heed therefore how you hear.

    For whosoever hath, to him shall be given:

    and whosoever hath not,

    that also which he thinketh he hath,
    shall be taken away from him.”

    Carmel, what you have quoted, perfectly describes,  “YOURSELF”, IMO. 

    Peace and love to you and yours…………gene

     

    #945723
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    Hi Carmel,

    Satan had to have recognized Jesus as the Son of God because Satan’s demons did, and no demon is greater than his Master.

    And demons also came out of many, crying out and saying, “You are the Christ, the Son of God!” (Luke 4:41)

    #945724
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi DD,

    You: Hi Carmel,

    Satan had to have recognized Jesus as the Son of God because Satan’s demons did,

    and no demon is greater than his Master.

    Me: The servant is not greater than his lord; 

    You Believe what you want But JESUS PREVENTED AND BLINDED SATAN FROM

    RECOGNIZING HIM WHOM HE WAS!

    JESUS FROM THE AGE OF THIRTEEN COMMENCED HIS FATHER’S BUSINESS, AND FOR EIGHTEEN YEARS, BATTLED THE HARSHEST SPIRITUAL WARFARE AGAINST SATAN AND HIS ENTIRE FORCE. IN THE END, ONLY SATAN REMAINED  ON HIS OWN DETERMINED TO MAKE JESUS FALL, ON THE OTHER HAND, JESUS BACKED BY  THE FATHER, BLINDED HIM EVEN MORE AS PROOF  THAT HE WAS SUPERIOR TO HIM, TO THE EXTENT THAT SATAN WOULD BE REMOVED BY FORCE ON JESUS’ BAPTISM BY JOHN/MICHAEL. JESUS HAD TO START HIS MISSION BUT NOT BEFORE HE REMOVED AND LOCKED SATAN FIRST.

    Luke11:21 When a strong man armed keepeth his court, those things are in peace which he possesseth. 22 But if a stronger than he come upon him, and overcome him; he will take away all his armour wherein he trusted, and will distribute his spoils.

    THE FACT THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT LED JESUS INTO THE DESERT TO BE TEMPTED BY SATAN.

    IF SATAN KNEW HE WOULDN’T HAVE KILLED JESUS.

    1 Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew;

    for if they had known it,

    they would never have crucified the Lord of glory. 

    JESUS HAD TO ERADICATE DEATH THROUGH HIS DEATH.

    JESUS SAID:

    I THIRST!!!

    THUS:

    SATAN ENTERED JESUS’ HUMAN SOUL AGAINST HIS WILL, BY THE VINEGAR!!

    BY HIS AUTONOMY! THAT HE WAS THE SPIRIT IN THE PROCESS OF THE WORLD, HENCE PRECISELY IN THE VINEGAR!

    Mark 11:12….May no man hereafter eat fruit of thee anymore forever…..

    ONLY AFTER GUDAH KISSED JESUS HE BECOME AWARE OF THE TRUTH!

    THE FACT THAT SATAN ALSO BLINDED GUDAH AND AFTER GUDAH KISSED JESUS, SATAN WAS REMOVED FROM GUDAH BY JESUS, WHILE GUDAH ALSO BECAME AWARE OF WHAT HE DID AND TRIED TO STOP THEM FROM KILLING JESUS!

    Read hereunder please and reflect.

    Mark 14:51 And a certain young man followed him, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and they laid hold on him. 52 But he, casting off the linen cloth, fled from them naked.

    WHO IS THIS MAN NAKED?

    SATAN!!!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

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