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John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

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Discussion

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  • October 18, 2023 at 3:43 am#945312
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel……Yes one in agreement,  by the SPIRIT OF GOD that dwelt in him, the exact same SPIRIT that can also dwell in us , or haven’t you ever read,…..” but if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwell “IN” you, He who raised Christ from the dead shall “ALSO”  quicken your mortal bodies, by the Spirit (same spirit)  that dwells in you”. 

    Those who have in them that same spirit of God, Jesus had in him , Will receive that exact same resurrection Jesus did and will be Joint heirs with him in all things.  Jesus is simply the First to have received it,  but diffidently not the last one to, just as it says,  …..>Christ the first-fruit, of “MANY “, BRETHREN”.  

    YOUR FALSE TEACHINGS, isolates Jesus and put him in a class all by himself and alone, separating him from the rest of us, his brothers and sisters.

    peace and love to you and yours Carmel………gene

    October 18, 2023 at 5:53 am#945315
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    YOU: I simply don’t believe in your circumvention of holy scripture.
    The fact that you turn your neck on the simple statements of John 1 puts a brake on the pursuit of interesting exchanges.

    ME: Berean, first of all, don’t pretend that I have not posted in length to the passages you interpret out of context to support your doctrine. What has been going on as of late, is that I have been trying to hold you accountable to the content of a certain post, but it is you that has been circumventing. You could not be more hypocritical and deceiving to members on this forum that might not know the history of our exchanges.

    YOU: Jesus is divine/human, and when he was on earth he acted as a human should act, which means that he renounced using his divinity for his own benefit.

    ME: Your above statement is quite twisted and doesn’t even make any sense.

    Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Spirit returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness…14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all..17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. 22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. 

    John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    Berean, John 1 speaks to the very same thing as Luke in Chapter 4, I’d like to see you attempt to explain that it does not using Luke 4 in your explanation, if you do not then you are circumventing.

    John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

    Jesus gives all credit to God, acknowledging that he can do nothing of himself, it is God’s Spirit living in him, where Jesus also makes sure to let us know that all he is doing is according to God’s will, not his own.

    Jesus had quoted Isaiah 61 in Luke 4, but Isaiah 42 also speaks to that of a man having God’s Spirit come to abode in him, which John refers to as him being begotten of God’s Spirit. We read in verse 6, “I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    The above is exactly why John would refer to Jesus as God’s only begotten and reference that this was the glory the people beheld.

    Jesus acted as a human who had God holding his hand and keeping him from failing to fulfill God’s will. Jesus through being born of the Spirit and thus called to righteousness was then sent to do God’s work in God’s name, such made him the light of God. Why we read in John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

    The “me” who has been sent is directly according to God’s WORD which Jesus himself quoted, a man who had God’s Spirit come to abode in him, an anointing for the purpose to be sent out to fulfill God’s will. We read in Isaiah 46 that such was declared by God from the beginning a man who would execute God’s purpose, the purpose to which God had created all things, doing so by Himself, in the first place.

    Jesus said in John chapter 12 that he came a light into the world and John in chapter 1 also speaks to this light, which is exactly the light of God’s WORD spoken by the prophet Isaiah in chapter 42 and 49. This light is that of a man executing God’s will God declared from the beginning.

    Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

    Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

    The WORD from the beginning was God bringing forth righteousness and salvation unto all the earth through His Spirit aboding in a man. The WORD from the beginning is of a man being made into the firstfruits of God’s Spirit executing God’s purpose where God would be ALL IN ALL.

    John in chapter 1

    speaks to this WORD,

    speaks to this MAN that was in the Word from the beginning,

    speaks to him being the light of God’s WORD,

    speaks to him being born of the Spirit according to God’s WORD,

    speaks to him being the Messiah according to God’s WORD,

    AND the chapter ends with Philip recognizing him as the man of God’s WORD according to the prophets

    AND with Nathan believing in Jesus as the promised Son and king of God’s WORD, which is according to 1 Chronicles 17, a Son of Man (son of David) God promises to make him into His own Son, settle him into His House and Kingdom forever and give him an eternal throne.

    We also read Jesus declare that his kingship and kingdom was prepared by God since the foundation of the world! We also read, “Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;”

    This is exactly why John in chapter 1 says that by reason of him (a man of God’s WORD from the beginning called by God to execute God’s purpose) all things were made, without him nothing would be made that was made. 

    October 18, 2023 at 5:53 am#945316
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    YOU: I simply don’t believe in your circumvention of holy scripture.
    The fact that you turn your neck on the simple statements of John 1 puts a brake on the pursuit of interesting exchanges.

    ME: Berean, first of all, don’t pretend that I have not posted in length to the passages you interpret out of context to support your doctrine. What has been going on as of late, is that I have been trying to hold you accountable to the content of a certain post, but it is you that has been circumventing. You could not be more hypocritical and deceiving to members on this forum that might not know the history of our exchanges.

    YOU: Jesus is divine/human, and when he was on earth he acted as a human should act, which means that he renounced using his divinity for his own benefit.

    ME: Your above statement is quite twisted and doesn’t even make any sense.

    Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Spirit returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness…14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all..17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. 22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. 

    John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    Berean, John 1 speaks to the very same thing as Luke in Chapter 4, I’d like to see you attempt to explain that it does not using Luke 4 in your explanation, if you do not then you are circumventing.

    John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

    Jesus gives all credit to God, acknowledging that he can do nothing of himself, it is God’s Spirit living in him, where Jesus also makes sure to let us know that all he is doing is according to God’s will, not his own.

    Jesus had quoted Isaiah 61 in Luke 4, but Isaiah 42 also speaks to that of a man having God’s Spirit come to abode in him, which John refers to as him being begotten of God’s Spirit. We read in verse 6, “I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    The above is exactly why John would refer to Jesus as God’s only begotten and reference that this was the glory the people beheld.

    Jesus acted as a human who had God holding his hand and keeping him from failing to fulfill God’s will. Jesus through being born of the Spirit and thus called to righteousness was then sent to do God’s work in God’s name, such made him the light of God. Why we read in John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

    The “me” who has been sent is directly according to God’s WORD which Jesus himself quoted, a man who had God’s Spirit come to abode in him, an anointing for the purpose to be sent out to fulfill God’s will. We read in Isaiah 46 that such was declared by God from the beginning a man who would execute God’s purpose, the purpose to which God had created all things, doing so by Himself, in the first place.

    Jesus said in John chapter 12 that he came a light into the world and John in chapter 1 also speaks to this light, which is exactly the light of God’s WORD spoken by the prophet Isaiah in chapter 42 and 49. This light is that of a man executing God’s will God declared from the beginning.

    Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

    Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

    The WORD from the beginning was God bringing forth righteousness and salvation unto all the earth through His Spirit aboding in a man. The WORD from the beginning is of a man being made into the firstfruits of God’s Spirit executing God’s purpose where God would be ALL IN ALL.

    John in chapter 1

    speaks to this WORD,

    speaks to this MAN that was in the Word from the beginning,

    speaks to him being the light of God’s WORD,

    speaks to him being born of the Spirit according to God’s WORD,

    speaks to him being the Messiah according to God’s WORD,

    AND the chapter ends with Philip recognizing him as the man of God’s WORD according to the prophets

    AND with Nathan believing in Jesus as the promised Son and king of God’s WORD, which is according to 1 Chronicles 17, a Son of Man (son of David) God promises to make him into His own Son, settle him into His House and Kingdom forever and give him an eternal throne.

    We also read Jesus declare that his kingship and kingdom was prepared by God since the foundation of the world! We also read, “Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;”

    This is exactly why John in chapter 1 says that by reason of him (a man of God’s WORD from the beginning called by God to execute God’s purpose) all things were made, without him nothing would be made that was made. 

    October 18, 2023 at 5:53 am#945317
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    YOU: I simply don’t believe in your circumvention of holy scripture.
    The fact that you turn your neck on the simple statements of John 1 puts a brake on the pursuit of interesting exchanges.

    ME: Berean, first of all, don’t pretend that I have not posted in length to the passages you interpret out of context to support your doctrine. What has been going on as of late, is that I have been trying to hold you accountable to the content of a certain post, but it is you that has been circumventing. You could not be more hypocritical and deceiving to members on this forum that might not know the history of our exchanges.

    YOU: Jesus is divine/human, and when he was on earth he acted as a human should act, which means that he renounced using his divinity for his own benefit.

    ME: Your above statement is quite twisted and doesn’t even make any sense.

    Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Spirit returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness…14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all..17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. 22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. 

    John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    Berean, John 1 speaks to the very same thing as Luke in Chapter 4, I’d like to see you attempt to explain that it does not using Luke 4 in your explanation, if you do not then you are circumventing.

    John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

    Jesus gives all credit to God, acknowledging that he can do nothing of himself, it is God’s Spirit living in him, where Jesus also makes sure to let us know that all he is doing is according to God’s will, not his own.

    Jesus had quoted Isaiah 61 in Luke 4, but Isaiah 42 also speaks to that of a man having God’s Spirit come to abode in him, which John refers to as him being begotten of God’s Spirit. We read in verse 6, “I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    The above is exactly why John would refer to Jesus as God’s only begotten and reference that this was the glory the people beheld.

    Jesus acted as a human who had God holding his hand and keeping him from failing to fulfill God’s will. Jesus through being born of the Spirit and thus called to righteousness was then sent to do God’s work in God’s name, such made him the light of God. Why we read in John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

    The “me” who has been sent is directly according to God’s WORD which Jesus himself quoted, a man who had God’s Spirit come to abode in him, an anointing for the purpose to be sent out to fulfill God’s will. We read in Isaiah 46 that such was declared by God from the beginning a man who would execute God’s purpose, the purpose to which God had created all things, doing so by Himself, in the first place.

    Jesus said in John chapter 12 that he came a light into the world and John in chapter 1 also speaks to this light, which is exactly the light of God’s WORD spoken by the prophet Isaiah in chapter 42 and 49. This light is that of a man executing God’s will God declared from the beginning.

    Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

    Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

    The WORD from the beginning was God bringing forth righteousness and salvation unto all the earth through His Spirit aboding in a man. The WORD from the beginning is of a man being made into the firstfruits of God’s Spirit executing God’s purpose where God would be ALL IN ALL.

    John in chapter 1

    speaks to this WORD,

    speaks to this MAN that was in the Word from the beginning,

    speaks to him being the light of God’s WORD,

    speaks to him being born of the Spirit according to God’s WORD,

    speaks to him being the Messiah according to God’s WORD,

    AND the chapter ends with Philip recognizing him as the man of God’s WORD according to the prophets

    AND with Nathan believing in Jesus as the promised Son and king of God’s WORD, which is according to 1 Chronicles 17, a Son of Man (son of David) God promises to make him into His own Son, settle him into His House and Kingdom forever and give him an eternal throne.

    We also read Jesus declare that his kingship and kingdom was prepared by God since the foundation of the world! We also read, “Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;”

    This is exactly why John in chapter 1 says that by reason of him (a man of God’s WORD from the beginning called by God to execute God’s purpose) all things were made, without him nothing would be made that was made. 

    October 18, 2023 at 6:30 am#945318
    Berean
    Participant

    @Jodi

    You

    John in chapter 1

    speaks to this WORD,

    speaks to this MAN that was in the Word from the beginning,

    Me

    NO, NO AND NO

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    [2] The same was in the beginning with God.
    [3] All things were made 👉by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

     

    👉By him=one person

    Who IN THE BIGINNING was GOD 

    In thé BIGINNING “the WORD” was not a man but thé SON OF GOD WHO WAS GOD.

    🙏

     

     

     

    October 18, 2023 at 6:32 am#945319
    Berean
    Participant

    V.14 

    AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH….

    October 18, 2023 at 11:29 am#945323
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    You: Carmel……Yes one in agreement,  by the SPIRIT OF GOD that dwelt in him, the exact same SPIRIT that can also dwell in us.

    Me: Gene,

    YOUR SOUL AND YOUR BODY THOUGH ARE TWO ARE ALSO

    ONE BEING!

    AS SCRIPTURE SAYS 

    TWO IN ONE FLESH!

    WHEN YOU DIE AND YOUR BODY BE IN THE TOMB.

    YOUR SOUL BE IN FRONT OF JESUS TO BE JUDGED.

    WE SAY GENE IS IN FRONT OF JESUS.

    GENE IS BEING JUDGED!

    SO ONE GENE BE IN THE TOMB and ONE GENE WOULD BE IN FRON OF JESUS.

    BUT STILL THE SAME ONE GENE WHO WAS ON EARTH!

    NOW MAN IS CREATED IN THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF GOD!

     

    John14:7 If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also:

    and from henceforth you shall know him,

    and you have seen him.

    8Philip saith to him: Lord, shew us the Father, and it is enough for us. 9Jesus saith to him:

    Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me?

    Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also.

    How sayest thou, Shew us the Father? 

    10 Do you not believe, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

    The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself.

    But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works. 

    LIKEWISE: Gene,

    THE SOUL WHO ABIDES IN YOU, 

    SHE DOES THE WORKS!

    THE FACT THAT

    YOUR SOUL WOULD EVENTUALLY BE IN FRONT OF JESUS TO BE JUDGED! AS THE FLESH WOULD BE  ALREADY JUDGED

    DEAD IN THE TOMB!

     

    Like I said in my last post to you:

     

    Your pleasure Gene, is always to

    DISCREDIT JESUS!

    Read again please:

    Isaiah 25:5 Thou shalt bring down the tumult of strangers, as heat in thirst: and as with heat under a burning cloud,

    thou shalt make the branch of  THE MIGHTY to wither away.

    6And the Lord of hosts shall make unto all people in this mountain,

    a feast of fat things,

    a feast of wine, 

    JESUS’ BLOOD AND HIS REDEMPTION OF HUMANITY ON GOGLGOTHA

    of fat things FULL of MARROW,

    ALL SOULS!  ZION!

    of wine PURIFIED from the LEES.

    HUMAN BLOOD, ALL SOULS, PURIFIED FROM THE DEAD, SPIRITUALLY DEAD, LOCKED IN SATAN’S DARKNESS AND FIRE HEADQUARTERS.

    7And he shall destroy in this mountain the face of the BOND with which ALL PIE were tied, and THE WEB that he had over ALL NATIONS.

    JESUS’ DESTRUCTION OF SATAN’S SPIRIT ATTRIBUTED TO THE FLESH AND HIS DOMINION OVER THE HUMAN RACE! Mark 11:14, Luke 11:22 , Luke 17:20-36,

    8He shall cast DEATH down headlong forever:

    ONLY JESUS WAS THE SOLUTION FOR GOD THE FATHER IN ORDER TO ERADICATE  SATAN’S EMPIRE OF DEATH! Hebrews 2:14

    NO JESUS NO GOD, NO GOD NO JESUS!

    and the Lord God shall wipe away tears from every face, and the reproach of his people he shall take away from off the whole earth:

    for the Lord hath spoken it.

    THE LORD HAS SPOKEN HIS “WORD” MADE FLESH, JESUS,

    THE SON OF MAN!

    9 And they shall say in that day:

    ON JESUS’ DEATH ON THE CROSS. 

    Lo, this is OUR GOD, we have waited for him,

    JESUS IS GODMAN!

    and he will save us: this is the Lord,
    we have patiently waited for him,

    we shall rejoice and be joyful in his salvation.
    10 For the hand of the Lord shall rest in this mountain:

    FOR THE HAND OF GOD THE FATHER SHALL RELY IN THIS MOUNTAIN:

    JESUS, THE SON OF MAN,

    THE MOUNTAIN OF GOD! Ezekiel 28:16

    and Moab shall be trodden down under him, as straw is broken in pieces with the wain.

    11And he shall stretch forth his hands UNDER HIM, 

    ……UNDER SATAN’S DOMINION.

    as he that swimmeth stretcheth forth his hands to swim:

    JESUS BEING CRUCIFIED UNDER SATAN’S RULE!

    and HE shall bring down his glory with the dashing of his hands.

    JESUS DESTROYS SATAN’S GLORY WITH HIS DYNAMIC HANDS!

    AS MY POWER IS GLORIFIED IN MY WEAKNESS.

    12And the bulwarks of thy high walls shall fall,

    and be brought low, and shall be pulled down to the ground, even to the dust.

    SATAN’S SPIRIT ATTRIBUTED TO THE HUMAN BODY OF FLESH AND BLOOD ON EVE’S SIN,  ONCE AND FOR ALL ERADICATED ON JESUS’ DEATH AND HIS REDEMPTION ON THE CROSS.

    John 12:30 Jesus answered, and said: This voice came not because of me,

    but for your sakes. 

    FOR YOUR HUMAN BODY!

    JERUSALEM!

    31Now is the judgment of the world:

    now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

    SATAN ERADICATED FROM THE ENTIRE PHYSICAL PROCESS OF CREATION.

     32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,

    will draw AL THINGS to myself. 

    EVEN  GODSHIP!

    JESUS IS OFFICIALLY IN THE HEAVENLY REALMS PROPRIETOR OF THE ENTIRE PHYSICAL CREATION AND THE FATHER OF IT WITH HIS OWN BLOOD!

    John 17:1,2!

    Luke 22:19 And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying:

    This is my body, which is given for you.

    JESUS HOLDING THE BREAD MANIFESTING THE PHYSICAL CREATION

    PURIFIED IN HIS BODY!

    THE NEW JERUSALEM!

    Do this for a commemoration of me.

    20In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood,

    which shall be shed for you. 

    JESUS HOLDING THE CHALICE FULL OF WINE, mentioned above as

    FAT THINGS FULL OF MARROW!

    THE CHALICE FULL OF  WINE, (spirit) SOULS!

    JOHN 2:3………THEY HAVE NO WINE. 4 AND JESUS SAITH TO HER: WOMAN, WHAT IS THAT TO ME AND TO THEE?

    my hour is not yet come.

    PURIFIED IN JESUS’ BLOOD!

      ZION!

    IT IS A PITY  Gene, THAT

    YOU NEVER GOT JESUS MESSAGE PROPERLY AS HE 

    PROCLAIMED IT!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

    October 19, 2023 at 2:51 am#945329
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi…….Excellent post Sis. You are a proof that no matter how clear something is explained to the blind they simply can’t understand it.  The words of the LORD ring clear in this…….” Unless the LORD build the house the weary builders build in vain”.

    You are without a doubt the best explainer of scriptures this site has ever produced,  IMO.

    Peace and love to you and yours Jodi…………gene

    October 19, 2023 at 12:34 pm#945335
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You: The WORD from the beginning was God

    bringing forth righteousness and salvation unto all the earth through

    His Spirit aboding in a man.

    Ye Jodi, Just read Hereunder what this scripture hereunder says:

    Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, and hear this:

    I have not spoken in secret from the beginning:

    NOTICE THE TENSE,

    PRESENT PERFECT TENSE.

    It is used for past actions that are related to or continue into the present.

    THUS WHO SPOKE FROM THE BEGINNING?

    OBVIOUSLY THE WORD OF GOD!

    You said: The WORD from the beginning was God….

    THUS GOD FROM THE BEGINNING HAD NOT SPOKEN IN SECRET! 

    Let’s continue reading:

    from the time before it was done,

    Also obvious in the above:

    Before creation started, BEFORE IT WAS DONE, 

    THE WORD OF GOD AND ACCORDING TO YOU ABOVE, AND ALSO I AGREE:

    THE WORD WAS GOD… 

    WHAT NOW?  READ PLEASE:

    I was there,

    WHO WAS THERE Jodi?

    UP TO NOW, THIS VERSE HAS BEEN SPOKEN SPECIFICALLY FROM THE BEGINNING BY GOD!

    NOW DOES IT MAKE SENSE AT ALL Jodi?

    IF GOD, AS THE CREATOR, HAD SAID THOSE WORDS  HIMSELF FROM THE BEGINNING, WAS THERE ANY NEED FOR GOD TO SAY ALSO THAT

    HE WAS THERE?

    HE HIMSELF HAD SPOKEN IT, SO HE MUST HAVE BEEN THERE FOR SURE!

    THUS:

    GOD HAS SPOKEN!

    GOD HAS NOT SPOKEN IN SECRET!

    GOD WAS THERE!

    Attention now please: THE SCRIPTURE SAYS NOW:

    and NOW the Lord God HAS sent ME, and his SPIRIT.

    MAY I ASK YOU AGAIN Jodi!

    WHO HAD NOT SPOKEN IN SECRET FROM THE BEGINNING:

    THE ANSWER IS FOR SURE UNLESS A PERSON IS BLIND!

    “THE WORD” OF GOD MADE FLESH, JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, PRE-EXISTED!

    WHETHER YOU ACCEPT IT OR NOT

    IT’S YOUR PIGEON I’M FRAID! THUS

    HE WAS THERE Jodi, and Gene!

    Now you clearly said that

    The WORD from the beginning was God….

    THUS, IN THE BEGINNING, THE WORD WAS NOT SPOKEN IN SECRET BY GOD!

    you also said:

    THE WORD WAS GOD!

    and also

    GOD “THE WORD” MADE FLESH JESUS WAS THERE!

    AND NOW WE HAVE:

    THE LORD GOD HAS SENT “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD, JESUS, THE SON OF MAN,  AND ALSO HIS SPIRIT, THE HOLY GHOST, THE SON OF GOD!

    Asserted by Jesus in

    John 4:35 Do you not say, There are yet four months, and then the harvest cometh? Behold, I say to you, lift up your eyes, and see the countries; for they are white already to harvest. 36 And HE that REAPETH receiveth wages, and GATHERETH fruit unto life everlasting:

    THAT BOTH HE THAT SOWETH, AND HE THAT REAPETH,

    may rejoice together.

    THEY REJOICE TOGETHER ON THE CROSS!

    AS IMMEDIATELY ON THE DEATH OF JESUS, “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, THE SON OF MAN, TOGETHER WITH THE HOLY GHOST, JESUS’ SOUL.     THE SON OF GOD,  THEY WERE NOT TWO ANYMORE, BUT GLORIFIED AND

    REJOICED TOGETHER

    TWO IN ONE FLESH, BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH IN

    JESUS CHRIST

    GODMAN!

    Now read the scripture hereunder please:

    Acts 20:28 Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock,

    wherein THE HOLY GHOST hath placed you bishops,

    to rule the church of God,

    which HE HATH PURCHASED with HIS OWN BLOOD. 

    THE ABOVE CLEARLY  AND PLAINLY IN  BLACK ON WHITE SAYS THAT 

    THE HOLY GHOST PURCHASED THE CHURCH OF GOD WITH HIS OWN BLOOD!

    WHO’S BLOOD IS IN ACTUAL FACT?

    THE BLOOD OF JESUS THE SON OF MAN! NO?

    AND HOW COME THE  HOLY GHOST OWNS THE BLOOD!

    FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT

    THE HOLY GHOST, THE SON OF GOD and

    “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD, THE SON OF MAN

    ARE NOT TWO ANYMORE

    BUT TWO IN ONE FLESH!

    BOTH GLORIFIED AS

    JESUS CHRIST, HERE IT COMES AGAIN:

    GODMAN John3:31,32, John 17:1, 1 John5:20, Isaiah 25:9, 48:16. 

     

    You: The WORD from the beginning was God

    bringing forth righteousness and salvation unto all the earth through

    His Spirit aboding in a man.

    THAT’S RIGHT Jodi, IT IS CONFIRMED IN THE SCRIPTURE HEREUNDER:

     

    Isaiah 48:16 ….and NOW the Lord God HAS sent ME, and his SPIRIT.

    You: The WORD from the beginning was God….

    You: The WORD from the beginning is of a man……

    THAT’S RIGHT Jodi:

    THAT MAN FROM THE BEGINNING WAS GOD!

    John 1:1IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.

    14And the Word was made flesh,

    and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15John beareth witness of him, and crieth out, saying: This was he of whom I spoke:

    He that shall come after me, is preferred before me: because he was before me. 

    16And of his fulness we all have received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given by Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18No man hath seen God at any time:

    the only begotten Son who IS in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    October 19, 2023 at 4:13 pm#945336
    Jodi
    Participant

    Gene your words and encouragement mean so much!

    Peace and love to you brother,

    Jodi

    October 19, 2023 at 6:50 pm#945337
    Nick
    Participant

    Spiritualisms according to your vivid imagination Carmel.

    October 19, 2023 at 8:22 pm#945339
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Nick,

    You: Spiritualisms according to your vivid imagination Carmel.

    It is evidently clear that you don’t know the difference

    between spirituality and spiritualism! Read:

    the difference between spiritualism and spirituality – Search (bing.com)

    Spirituality and spiritualism are two terms that are often used interchangeably, but they actually have very different meanings1. Spirituality refers to the search for meaning and purpose in life, often through a connection to a higher power or sense of transcendence2. Spiritualism, on the other hand, is more specifically focused on the belief in communication with the dead or other supernatural entities.

    Is it sufficiently CLEAR?

    in the meantime read the scripture hereunder please:

    Mark 13:10And unto all nations the gospel must first be preached.

     11And when they shall lead you and deliver you up, be not thoughtful beforehand what you shall speak; but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye.

    For it is not you that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

    12And the brother shall betray his brother unto death, and the father his son; and children shall rise up against the parents, and shall work their death. 13And you shall be hated by all men for my name’s sake. But he that shall endure unto the end, he shall be saved.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    October 20, 2023 at 7:08 am#945342
    Nick
    Participant

    Hi C,

    Quoting many scriptures in vivid colour is not evidence that you are a servant of God.

    Your invention of a GODMAN suggests otherwise.

    Knowledge and understanding are not fruit.

    October 20, 2023 at 12:07 pm#945346
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Nick,

    You: Hi C,

    Quoting many scriptures in vivid colour is not evidence that you are a servant of God.

    Me: GOD IS LIGHT AND NOT SEEN, EXCEPT THROUGH WHAT HE CREATED, AND WHAT HE CREATED ARE NOT SEEN IN DARKNESS,

    BUT IN LIGHT, AND

    LIGHT CONTAINS ALL THE COLOURS, OR

    THE THREE PRIMARY COLOURS IN ONE 

    AS EVIDENCE OF WHAT GOD IS

    NOW, I RESPECT CERTAIN PERSONS MORE THAN OTHERS,  OF WHICH ARE THOSE PERSONS WITH SUCH AN OPINION,

    WHO LOOKS ONLY AT  THINGS THAT ARE SEEN,

    WHICH ARE TEMPORAL AND PASSING,

    NOT AT THINGS THAT ARE NOT SEEN,

    WHICH ARE ETERNAL!

    AS EVIDENCE OF WHAT THEY ARE.

    2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen, are temporal; but the things which are not seen, are eternal.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

    October 21, 2023 at 6:03 am#945372
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    YOU: In thé BIGINNING “the WORD” was not a man but thé SON OF GOD WHO WAS GOD.

    ME: I have never said that “the Word” of John 1:1 represents a man. I have posted before giving scripture that “the Word” of John 1:1 represents God’s word of eternal life.

    Eternal life is through righteousness and it is God’s Spirit dwelling in the human spirit that causes righteousness.

    “the Word” from John 1:1, is in fact God’s WORD, as in something He DECLARED, as in something He PROMISED in the beginning.

    So what WORD did God declare that has been WITH him since the beginning as a promise to fulfill, but also directly represents God Himself?

    Does God’s Spirit represent God? Yes indeed. Does Righteousness represent God? Yes indeed. Does Eternal Life represent God? Yes indeed.

    Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.

    God’s Word even before the world began was a promise of eternal life.

    John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us.

    Proverbs 12:28 28 In the way of righteousness is life; and in the pathway thereof there is no death.

    Ephesians 5:9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness righteousness and truth. 

    Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

    Mark 10:39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.

    Mathew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

    1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

    Acts 13:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father THE PROMISE of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    Let’s go back to 1 John 1: That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us.

    Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

    1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

    John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

    Romans 5 speaks of one man bringing sin and death and one man bringing forth righteousness and life.

    Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)…

    …21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles…5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
    5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
    6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
    7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
    8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
    9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
    10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
    11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    (Paul tells us that those who are Led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God and that the Spirit bears witness to the human spirit that they are a child of God and he says that people were predestined to be made in the image of the Son. The signs and miracles Jesus did were proof that he was God’s Son, they were proof that he was begotten of the Spirit, born of God, proof that he was being led by the Spirit of God, the Spirit indeed was bearing witness to his spirit that he was a child of God)

    Berean, is the LIGHT John is speaking of, NOT the LIGHT of Isaiah 42? Do you give no respect to the word of God that first of all, He is the Creator, who secondly, then calls a man to righteousness for him to be a light unto Jews and Gentiles alike?

    In Isaiah 42 is this man who has been called to righteousness NOT the same man who this Creator had SPOKEN of from the beginning whom He SAID He would call to execute His purpose for having created all things in the first place, to bring forth salvation and righteousness?

    The Word is executed by the calling of one man who is a light.

    The Word is eternal life which exists only through God’s Spirit causing righteousness.

    This Word was with God from the beginning, a PROMISE, and this Word is God for God Himself is the Spirit, is Righteousness and is Eternal Life.

    What does the anointed Jesus represent, the man whom God called to righteousness having been born of God’s Spirit, where he died but was raised up receiving the promised Spirit and eternal life. According to 1 John 1 he became God’s Word of life that had been declared from the beginning manifested for all to see, see his flesh and bones and handle him so that our faith and hope our in God and His promises. God gives this man power to execute God’s purpose for having made all things in the first place, Jesus is a firstborn of many brethren! Jesus execute the promise that God would be ALL IN ALL, His Spirit, His Righteousness, His Eternal Life.

     

    October 22, 2023 at 12:53 am#945375
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Jodi

    You

    Berean, is the LIGHT John is speaking of, NOT the LIGHT of Isaiah 42? Do you give no respect to the word of God that first of all, He is the Creator, who secondly, then calls a man to righteousness for him to be a light unto Jews and Gentiles alike?

    Me

    Isaiah prophesied about Christ (THE WHICH JOHN NAMED “THE WORD” (John 1v.1/Rev.19:13)WHO WAS MADE FLESH .(v.14)

    [3]All things were made by HIM;👈 and 👉without him was not any thing made that was made.👈

    NO NEED TO SPIRITUALIZE VERSE 3
    HE IS THE CREATIVE AGENT OF GOD.

    As Paul also said to the Colossians

    For by him were all things 👉created, 👈that are in heaven👈, and that are in earth,👈 visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    [17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

    [4] In him was life; and the life was👉 the light of men.👈

    I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee👉 for a covenant of the people, 👉for a light of the Gentiles;👈(Is.42:6)

     

    [5] And the light shines in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

    [6] There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
    [7] The same came for a witness, to bear witness of 👉the Light,👈 that all men through him might believe.
    [8] He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

    [9] That was the true Light, which lighteth 👉every man that comes into the world.👈

    [10] He was in the world, and👉 the world 👉was made BY HIM, 👈 and the world knew him not.

    [11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

    [12] But as many as 👉received him,👈 to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them👉 that believe on his name:👈
    [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.👈

    🙏

    October 28, 2023 at 4:43 am#945429
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    Isaiah indeed prophesied about Christ but you ignore and thus do not apply at all the important truths of the word of God therein. Your doctrine is actually a complete lie going against direct scripture.

    Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. 19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

    Isaiah 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

    Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory…34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD.

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles…5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    Isaiah 44:23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. 24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF;

    Isaiah 49:1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. 2 And he hath MADE my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

    Jeremiah 10:12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion. 13 When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.

    Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

    Berean, according to direct scriptures the inheritor of the earth is not the Creator of the Earth and the Creator of the earth elected an inheritor of the earth to rule over all the earth.

    This same inheritor who is to be a ruler of the earth, through the Creator’s Spirit aboding in him, is a servant to the Creator. This servant to the Creator fulfills the purpose as to why the earth was created in the first place, for the Creator to be ALL IN ALL upon the earth, His Spirit, His Righteousness, His Eternal Life. This is the Gospel, this is the Word that was with God from the beginning and is God. This Word is fulfilled in Jesus himself and God through the Spirit in him fulfills it unto all nations of people, why all things were made by reason of him, for him and without him nothing would have been made that was made. 

    The Creator accomplishes everything BY MEANS OF HIS OWN SPIRIT!

    The Creator is YHVH our heavenly Father where BY MEANS OF His Spirit and the wisdom, discretion and power therein, His own voice brought forth heaven and earth into existence. YHVH did it BY REASON OF AND FOR the inheritor, which YHVH DECLARED this from the beginning, even before the world was.

    Compare the difference Berean,

    Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

    Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. 19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

    Isaiah 46: 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.

    Romans 5:19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    The DIFFERENCE is that we are told that YHVH in the beginning created heaven and earth all by Himself, ALL ALONE by His SPIRIT, His OWN VOICE, but when it comes to YHVH making the righteous and making the world at peace, making the new heaven and earth, we are told that He does so through His Spirt living in the man Jesus. 

     

    October 28, 2023 at 9:40 am#945430
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Jodi
    you
    Isaiah 44:24
    Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that makesth all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF;

    me

    The Son of God, in the BIGINNING WAS GOD.

    HIS ORIGIN 👉 Micah 5:2
    ….out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, 👉from everlasting.👈.

    HIS NATURE/SUBSTANCE

    Who being the brightness of his glory(of God), and the 👉express image👈 of his person(of God) (Heb.1:3)

    When it is written that God “spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF” THIS DOES NOT EXCLUDE THAT GOD USES HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON TO DO THE JOB, AS DESCRIBED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, FOR THE SON OF GOD IN HIS DIVINE NATURE “IS GOD “

    HE IS GOD “BEGOTTEN” FROM GOD

    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    👉Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:

    1)👉for I proceeded forth

    2)👉and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.(John8:42)

    For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and👉 have believed that I came out from God.👈 John 16:27)

    1) I came forth👉 from the Father, 👈

    2)and am come into the world:

    3) again,
    I leave the world, and go to the Father. (John 16:28)

     

    Eph.3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things👉 by Jesus Christ:

    ….all things were created
    👉 by him, and👉 for him: (Col.1:16)

    Conclusion :

    THE “BY MYSELF” of Isaiah 44:24 THIS IS ALSO THE DEVINITY OF GOD, WHICH THE SON POSSESSES.
    👇
    For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;(Col.1:19)

    👇
    ….Christ.
    [9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of👉 the Godhead bodily.👈

    THE OT AND THE NT ARE IN HARMONY WHEN WE SEE THE SON OF GOD AS HE WAS IN ETERNITY AND AS HE HAS BEEN ON EARTH AND AS HE IS NOW IN HEAVEN.

    Luke 9:26
    For whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes
    👉 in his glory, (John17:5)

    👉and in that of the Father

    👉and holy angels

    🙏

    October 28, 2023 at 8:31 pm#945431
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You: Berean…….Your doctrine is actually a complete lie going against direct scripture.

     

    17 And if children, then heirs;

    heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; 

    Me: It’s no use reading the scripture and then preaching your misinterpretation of it!

    In the above, you produced verse 17 and highlighted,

    “heirs of God “ in black and

    “joint-heirs with Christ” in red!

    Answer please for the sake of TRUTH!

    Why did you do so? I mean:

    Why where there is God mentioned, you used the BLACK and

    where Jesus Christ is mentioned, you used the RED?

    IF YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND YOU CONCLUDED THAT THERE SHOULD BE A DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY YOU PRESENTED THAT VERSE IN YOUR POST, EXPLAIN TO US PLEASE, WHY DID YOU DO SO!

    I AM WAITING FOR YOUR

    TRUTH!

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    October 29, 2023 at 3:03 am#945432
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi……Excellent post,  anyone who is guided by the Spirit of the living God can Easley see what you are saying and quoting and why you are enfacing certain major points by capitalizing and coloring them.  Good Job Jodi, I am always encouraged when I read your posts.

    peace and love to you and yours Jodi………gene

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