John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

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Discussion

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  • #945250
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi, Mr. Deiretruth,

    You:

    Me: Your response to Mark 4:11-12: “With your declaration, you simply confirmed that you are more than stagnated and still live LIKE THE JEWS OF THE OT WERE, WITH EVERY RESPECT, I’M AFRAID!”
    You: did you notice how you failed to answer the question and responded with platitudes; this is the same answer given to all who question the teachings of Christianity.

    Me: First and foremost I am going to remain subject to MY WRITING FORMAT, since it is destroying you in a particular way!

    I mean you are subject to it!

    I will never be subject to my ADVERSARRY in any way, as simple as that!

    THIS IS A BATTLE FOR THE TRUTH MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE!

    GOT IT?

    SO WHETHER YOU ACCEPT IT OR NOT 

    IT’S YOU PEGION!

    WITH EVERY DUE RESPECT!

    AS IT IS I AM ONLY SUBJECT TO YOUR NONSENSE!!!!

    BUT ONLY FOR THE SAKE OF OTHERS, AND TRUTH IN JESUS CHRIST AND FOR JESUS CHRIST!

    THUS, MY WRITING IS NOT JUST FOR YOU, I AM USING YOU TO REVEAL.

    THE TRUTH! THANKS FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT IN ME!

    WRITING IN BLOCK CAPITAL IS EVIDENCE,  IN FULL HUMILITY,

    THAT MY WRITING IS NOT SUBJECT TO THIS SATANIC WORLD IN ANY WAY AT ALL.

    NOW, LET’S START:

    You: did you notice how you failed to answer the question and responded with platitudes; 

    WHAT IS THE USE OF WRITING IN A PROPER WORDLY FORMAT, SINCE YOU ARE NOT AWARE OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?

    HERE IT COMES AGAIN:

    You: Now explain Jesus’ words in Mark 4:11 He said to them,

    “To you is given the mystery of the Kingdom of God,

    but to those who are outside,

    all things are done in parables,

    12 that ‘seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest perhaps they should turn again, and their sins should be forgiven them.’”

    You: Jesus is intentionally speaking in a confusing manner through the use of parables so those who came to listen to him wouldn’t understand

    so they wouldn’t turn and have their sins forgiven. 

    With your declaration, you simply confirmed that you are more than stagnated and still live LIKE THE JEWS  OF THE OT WERE, WITH EVERY RESPECT, I’M AFRAID!

    SPIRITUALLY DEAD!

    You: Tell me how you interpret this in a positive manner?!? 

    IT’S NO USE I’M AFRAID THAT YOU ASK QUESTIONS MORE RELATED TO THE NT THAN THE OT, I MEAN:

    THE NEW ETERNAL COVENANT,

    WHILE THE OT IS IN EVERY SENSE

    OBSOLETE,

    You: You believe the OT is “OBSOLETE”, thus making the NT the only book worthy of study and why your religion has “spiritualized” everything about it. If the OT is obsolete, why have it anymore? Why is anything quoted out of it in the NT? Why didn’t the catholic church just get rid of it when the bible was canonized?

    Me: WHY DID YOU LEFT PART OF MY COMMENT OUT?

    IS IT BECAUSE YOU WERE MORE INTERESTED IN THE CONFUSING MENTALITY YOU ARE IN,

    WITH EVERY RESPECT?

    Now read again what you left out simply to quench your thirst!

    SINCE YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN JESUS AS

    THE REDEEMER,
    AND HIS UNIQUE SPIRITUAL PROCESS!

    How about that now?

    Read the whole comment again and be aware of how it sounds!

    You: Tell me how you interpret this in a positive manner?!? 

    Me: IT’S NO USE I’M AFRAID THAT YOU ASK QUESTIONS MORE RELATED TO THE NT THAN THE OT, I MEAN:

    THE NEW ETERNAL COVENANT,
    WHILE THE OT IS IN EVERY SENSE

    OBSOLETE,

    Now to the part you left out!

    UNLESS YOU BELIEVE  IN JESUS AS YOUR REDEEMER!!!

    OK? Mr. DT! A PERSON LIKE YOU STAGNATED IN YOUR CARNAL MENTALITY OF THIS SATANIC WORLD, YOU ARE NOT IN THE POSITION TO SEARCH FOR TRUTH RELATED TO JESUS CHRIST, AS YOU ARE ALREADY COMMITTED AND YOU ARE NOT REALLY AS YOU SAID:

    DESIRETRUTH!

    Cont. BY WHICH PROCESS JESUS SPIRITUALIZED THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE WHILE THEY ARE STILL LIVING ON EARTH? WELL CLEAR IN

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth;

    I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
    2He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench:

    he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
    4He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

    5Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

     
    6I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

    8I am the LORD: that is my name:

    and my glory will I not give to another,
    neither my praise to graven images.

    9Behold, the former things are come to pass,

    (OBSOLETE!)

    and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

    (THROUGH JESUS “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD ON EARTH)
    ATTENTION PLEASE:

    Now just look at the above without any of my normal format!

    did you notice something? I tell you

    IT IS A WRITING TOTALLY DEAD!

    I MEAN: SPIRITUALLY!  WHY YOU MAY ASK?

    FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT A PERSON LIKE YOU,

    CARNALLY MINDED OF THE WORLD YOU WILL NEVER SEE AND PERCEIVE THE SPIRITUAL MESSAGE AT ALL, BUT WITH MY WRITING FORMAT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO PERCEIVE BEFORE YOU CAN SEE THE SPIRITUAL MESSAGE, THOUGH YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT,  BUT IT ‘S UP TO YOU IF YOU ARE HUMBLE ENOUGH TO ASK QUESTION IN RELATION TO IT!

    SOMETHING YOU NEVER DID,  AND YOU WILL NEVER DO, FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT YOU END UP

    DEAD! CONFIRMED BY YOUR OWN COMMENT WHEN YOU SAID:

    You: did you notice how you failed to answer the question and

    responded with platitudes;

    Now in my next post, I will elaborate on MORE PROPERLY

    Isaiah 42 above for the sake of OTHERS and TRUTH of which truth for you are

    PLATITUDE!

    Peca and love in Jesus Christ

    #945253
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Carmel,

    You: “First and foremost I am going to remain subject to MY WRITING FORMAT, since it is destroying you in a particular way!”

    Me: This tells me all I need to know about you…then I stopped reading.

    #945254
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…….if Jesus is an Angel, then he will not be part of the world to come.  Because scripture says  so, (not me) ……Heb 2:5…..> “For unto the angels has he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.”

    So much for your Arch-Angel theory; seems your still cherry picking scriptures to support  the false narratives you believe in,  given to you by your church.

    peace and love to you and yours Berean……….gene

    #945255
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    Please show me where I said that Jesus is an angel, and we’ll see later.
    God is LOVE, you could learn more from Him.
    🙏

    #945260
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    You: Gene

    Please show me where I said that Jesus is an angel, and we’ll see later.
    God is LOVE, you could learn more from Him.

    Galatians 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected;

    but received me as an angel of God,

    even as Christ Jesus.

    How about that? 

    Gene and Berean!

    JESUS PRE-EXISTED!

    UNKNOWN AND HIDDEN FOR THE HEAVENLY HOSTS!

    Pinpointed out in

    John 1:29 The next day, John saw Jesus coming to him, and he saith: Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who taketh away the sin of the world. 30 This is he, of whom I said: After me there cometh a man, who is preferred before me:

    because he was before me.

    31And I knew him not,

    but that he may be made manifest in Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #945263
    Nick
    Participant

    Hi BEREAN,

    Yes you said he was an ARCHangel, a chief Angel.

    God is love but He does not like false gospels.

    Speculative nonsense is unwise.

    #945267
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel…….the word there actually means (messenger). Paul was telling them they received him as a “messenger” of God, even as Jesus, who was also a messenger sent from God.

    peace and love to you and yours Carmel……….gene

    #945273
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    A proper response to someone’s post is to actually respond to the specific content within that post. I gave scriptures and then understanding to them, are you able to agree or disagree and in any disagreements can you give explanation?

    Biblical fact, Jesus preached prophecy concerning himself, glory given unto the Son of Man and when Jesus was raised from the dead appearing to many in flesh and bones he said, “Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”

    Biblical Fact, Stephen through the Holy Spirit saw the glory of God and Jesus in heaven where he said he saw THE SON OF MAN standing at the right hand of God. 

    Biblical Fact, Jesus preached of a second coming, “the Son of Man will come in his GLORY“, “he shall sit upon the throne of his glory” and ““then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD.

    Biblical Fact, from the beginning the WORD of God was that of a future king, a Son of Man with glory and his kingdom. This king and his kingdom were prepared since the creation of the world. 

    Biblical Fact, this king is the firstborn man from the dead and the firstfruits of God’s Spirit where through that Spirit he judges the earth destroying the wicked and rewarding the faithful with God’s Spirit, that God maybe all in all. 

    With these biblical facts, is it any wonder why Jesus prior to his suffering on the cross asked God for the glory God had prepared for him since the creation of the world?

    With these biblical facts, is it any wonder why we are also told regarding this firstborn of the dead that for by reason of him and for him all things were created?

    With these biblical facts, is it any wonder why we are told that he is before all things and in him all things consist?

    With these biblical facts, is it any wonder why we are told that without him nothing was made that was made?

    No, there is no wondering, the word of God is clear, for since the creation of the world this king and his kingdom were prepared, an end to which God declared from the beginning, where a man executes God’s purpose (Isaiah 46). That purpose would be why God had created earth and all things in the first place.

    #945274
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Jodi

     

    I) In the beginning was HE WHO WAS/IS NAMED “THE WORD OF GOD, AND WHO WAS WITH GOD AND WHO WAS GOD (of the same nature as his Father)
    “being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person …”(Heb.1:3)

    II) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.(John v.3)


    For by him were all things 👉created, 👈that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
    [17] And 👉he is before all things, 👈 and by him all things consist.👈

    III) 👉And “the Word” was made flesh, 👈 and dwelt among us,👈 (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    THE GLORY OF THE SON OF GOD IN HEAVEN(IN THE BIGINNING ) BEFORE BEING MADE FLESH WAS INTENSIFIED BY THE FACT THAT HE WAS MADE FLESH AND REVEALED THE LOVING CHARACTER OF THE FATHER BY GIVING HIS LIFE IN SACRIFICE
    LIVING TO SAVE US FROM SIN, UNTIL OFFERING HIMSELF FOR US ON THE CROSS OF CALVARY AT GOLGOTHA.

     

    JUST BEFORE HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS, HE PRAY THE FATHER:

    John 17

    These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

     

    The glory of God IS HIS DIVINE CHARACTER, THE POWER OF HIS RIGHTEOUS AND COMPASSIONATE LOVE THAT HE COMMUNICATES TO US AS HE DID FOR CHRIST AT EVERY STAGE OF HIS LIFE.
    AND THIS GLORY WAS REVEALED TO ITS SUMMUM
    AT THE CROSS OF CALVARY BECAUSE JESUS KEPT THE FAITH UNTIL THE END.

    And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, 👉 Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: 👈 and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. (LUKE 23:46)

    Isaiah 53

    [10] Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grievance: when thou shalt👉 make his soul an offering for sin,👈 he shall see his seed, 👉he shall prolong his days,👈 and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
    [11] He shall see of the labor of his soul, and shall be satisfied:👈 by his knowledge shall my righteous servant👉 justify many; 👈 for he shall bear their iniquities.👈
    [12] Therefore will I divide him 👉a portion with the great, 👈and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; 👈 👉because👉 he hath poured out his soul unto death:👈 and he was numbered with the transgressors;

    and👉HE BARE THE SIN OF MANY, 👈

    and 👉made INTERCESSION

    for the transgressors.👈

    AMEN!

    #945285
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    You: Carmel…….the word there actually means (messenger). Paul was telling them they received him as a “messenger” of God, even as Jesus, who was also a messenger sent from God.

    Me: Your pleasure Gene, is always to

    DISCREDIT JESUS!

    Read hereunder please and be aware of whom you called and considered HIM 

    a mere MESSANGER!

    Isaiah 25:5 Thou shalt bring down the tumult of strangers, as heat in thirst: and as with heat under a burning cloud,

    thou shalt make the branch of  THE MIGHTY to wither away.

    6And the Lord of hosts shall make unto all people in this mountain,

    a feast of fat things,

    a feast of wine, 

    JESUS’ BLOOD AND HIS REDEMPTION OF HUMANITY ON GOGLGOTHA

    of fat things FULL of MARROW,

    ALL SOULS! ZION!

    of wine PURIFIED from the LEES.

    HUMAN BLOOD, ALL SOULS, PURIFIED FROM THE DEAD, SPIRITUALLY DEAD, LOCKED IN SATAN’S DARKNESS AND FIRE HEADQUARTERS.

    7And he shall destroy in this mountain the face of the BOND with which ALL PIE were tied, and THE WEB that he had over ALL NATIONS.

    JESUS’ DESTRUCTION OF SATAN’S SPIRIT ATTRIBUTED TO THE FLESH AND HIS DOMINION OVER THE HUMAN RACE! Mark 11:14, Luke 11:22 , Luke 17:20-36,

    8He shall cast DEATH down headlong forever:

    ONLY JESUS WAS THE SOLUTION FOR GOD THE FATHER IN ORDER TO ERADICATE  SATAN’S EMPIRE OF DEATH! Hebrews 2:14

    NO JESUS NO GOD, NO GOD NO JESUS!

    and the Lord God shall wipe away tears from every face, and the reproach of his people he shall take away from off the whole earth:

    for the Lord hath spoken it.

    THE LORD HAS SPOKEN HIS “WORD” MADE FLESH, JESUS, THE SON OF MAN!

    9And they shall say in that day:

    Lo, this is our God, we have waited for him,

    JESUS IS GODMAN!

    and he will save us: this is the Lord,

    we have patiently waited for him,

    we shall rejoice and be joyful in his salvation.

    10For the hand of the Lord shall rest in this mountain:

    FOR THE HAND OF GOD THE FATHER SHALL RELY IN THIS MOUNTAIN:

    JESUS, THE SON OF MAN,

    THE MOUNTAIN OF GOD! Ezekiel 28:16

    and Moab shall be trodden down under him, as straw is broken in pieces with the wain.

    11And he shall stretch forth his hands under him, as

    ……UNDER SATAN’S DOMINION.

    he that swimmeth stretcheth forth his hands to swim:

    JESUS BEING CRUCIFIED UNDER SATAN’S RULE!

    and HE shall bring down his glory with the dashing of his hands.

    JESUS DESTROYS SATAN’S GLORY BY HIS DYNAMIC HANDS

    12And the bulwarks of thy high walls shall fall,

    and be brought low, and shall be pulled down to the ground, even to the dust.

    SATAN’S SPIRIT ATTRIBUTED TO THE HUMAN BODY OF FLESH AND BLOOD ON EVE’S SIN, ERADICATED ONCE AND FOR ALL ON JESUS’ DEATH AND HIS REDEMPTION ON THE CROSS.

    John 12:30 Jesus answered, and said: This voice came not because of me,

    but for your sakes. 

    FOR YOUR HUMAN BODY!

    JERUSALEM!

    31Now is the judgment of the world:

    now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

    SATAN ERADICATED FROM THE ENTIRE PHYSICAL PROCESS OF CREATION.

     32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,

    will draw all things to myself. 

    JESUS OFFICIALLY IN THE HEAVENLY REALMS PROPRIETOR OF THE ENTIRE PHYSICAL CREATION AND THE FATHER OF IT WITH HIS OWN BLOOD!

    John 17:1,2!

    Luke 22:19 And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying:

    This is my body, which is given for you.

    JESUS HOLDING THE BREAD MANIFESTING THE PHYSICAL CREATION

    PURIFIED IN HIS BODY!

    JERUSALEM!

    Do this for a commemoration of me.

     20In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood,

    which shall be shed for you. 

    JESUS HOLDING THE CHALICE FULL OF WINE, mentioned above as

    FAT THINGS FULL OF MARROW!

    THE CHALICE FULL OF  WINE, (spirit) SOULS

    John 2:3………They have no wine. 4And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee?

    my hour is not yet come.

    PURIFIED IN JESUS’ BLOOD!

      ZION!

    You: …..Jesus, who was also a messenger sent from God.

    WHAT A MESSENGER???????????

    IT IS A PITY THAT 

    YOU NEVER GOT HIS MESSAGE PROPERLY AS HE 

    PROCLAIMED IT!

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ 

    #945287
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi…….Another excellent post.

    peace and love to you and yours Jodi………gene

    #945288
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel……I am not discrediting Jesus at all,  what I am telling you is exactly what Jesus would tell you if he were here. Here in scripture,  is a good example of what you and many others do,                       Mat 19:16-17…..> “And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he (Jesus),  said unto him, Why call “ME” good? There is “NONE” good, but “ONE” , that is, GOD: but if you will enter into life keep the commandments. 

    This not only show us Jesus never thought himself as good, but also proves he wasn’t God either.  But the question is, do you “TRULY” believe Jesus and what he said?

    peace and love to you and yours Carmel……..gene

    #945294
    Jodi
    Participant

    Berean,

    Once again you did not respond at all appropriately to my post.

    The entire bible would not read the way it does if your doctrine were true. You treat so much scripture as if it’s dirt, God’s word to be swept and left under a rug. You then stand over the rug and cherry pick scripture. Further you won’t or can’t even attempt to establish any sort of reconciliation.

    In your first reply you gave Matthew 24:29-31 but you totally glossed over the fact that it speaks of the Son of Man, where you then also fail to apply other scriptures to this passage.

    29: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Firstly, below is the IMAGE of the Son of Man who comes with great power and glory,

    Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

    Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    Berean, you deny the Holy Spirit in the man Jesus. You deny that this is the glory in him to which makes him a Son of God.  The Son of Man returns being led by the Spirit of God that dwells in him, where “those that are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God” (Romans 8:14). In him is God’s Spirit where it’s “fruit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth” (Ephesians 5:9).

    Berean, you deny the clear biblical glory of Jesus, he is not a pre-existing arch angel, he is a man who has God’s Spirit living in him. 

    Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

    Michael is ONE OF the chief leaders, he is the great leader over the children of Israel and Jesus is the ruler overall the chief leaders and the ruler overall the world.

    1 Peter 3: 21.. Jesus Christ: 22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

    Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration (new birth) when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    The angel Michael is ONE OF the chief leaders, he is the great leader over the children of Israel and we also read of men who will be leaders sitting on 12 thrones to judge the tribes of Israel, but Jesus is the ruler over them all, he is ruler over all the earth, all authorities and powers are subject to him and he is subject to God.

    WHO IS AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD?

    56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

    What is the image of this Son of Man?

    1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.

    Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

    Jesus IS THE FIRSTFRUITS!

    Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

    The fullness of Christ, a man raised from the dead receiving the PROMISED Holy Spirit and is the firstfruits of the Spirit, “the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD (Isaiah 11)”, “the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Gal 5:22), “the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth” (Ephesians 5:9).

    God elected one man from among brethren to be our king of kings and lord of lords, where he rules overall the earth through God’s Spirit that dwells in him, such was glory unto this Son of Man that was with God before the word was. God had prepared such since the creation of the world.

    #945296
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    I simply don’t believe in your circumvention of holy scripture.
    The fact that you turn your neck on the simple statements of John 1 puts a brake on the pursuit of interesting exchanges.
    I say it, I repeat it, Jesus is divine/human, and when he was on earth he
    acted as a human should act, which means that he renounced using his divinity for his own benefit. He identified himself completely with sinful humanity in order to save them, and this required him to RENOUNCE HIS DIVINE ATTRIBUTES FOR HIS OWN BEHALF.

    But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:(Phil.2)

    His reputation before he WAS MADE flesh was he WAS THE CHIEF ANGELS,
    MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL

    When he WAS MADE flesh , he loose his réputation.

    Already there, it was a great sacrifice of love for us, the first step to be able to save us.

    Amen!

    To be continuer, if God want.

    🙏

     

     

    #945299
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    You: His reputation before he WAS MADE flesh was he WAS THE CHIEF ANGELS,

    MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL.

    Me: WHAT MAKES YOU SO CONVINCED THAT JESUS IS MICHAEL?

    JESUS IS THE LIGHT!

    THE ONLY ANGEL WHO IS BOTH

    THE LIGHT BRINGER, and 

    THE MORNING STAR AS JESUS ALSO LIKEWISE IS, IS

    LUCIFER!

    NOW WE ARE LUCIFER’S REMNANTS, THE REBELLIOUS ANGELS!

    NOW LUCIFER IS THE FIRST-EVER CREATURE WHO WAS CREATED BY GOD THROUGH “THE WORD” JESUS AS A SPIRIT, ETERNAL LIFE AT ALL COSTS, GOD ALL-KNOWING WITHIN LUCIFER’S HEART WITH A LUMINOUS BODY! 

    THE MORNING STAR!

    THE BEGINNING OF CREATION, AND THE FIRST EVER CARRIER OF GOD WHO IS 

    THE SOURCE AND/OF THE PRIMORDIAL LIGHT.

    HIDDEN IN HIS SON’S HEART, THE TRUE BEGINNING OF EVERY CREATURE and THE TRUE PRIMORDIAL LIGHT AND

    THE UNIQUE ABODE OF THE FATHER  PRECISELY 

    JESUS’ HEART.  

    THUS THE FATHER  IN JESUS’ HEART   and

    JESUS THE ONLY SPIRIT/MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND HIS CREATURES IN

    LUCIFER’S HEART!

    BOTH ANGELS AND BOTH 

    THE FIRST-EVER MORNING STAR.

    BOTH LUCIFER AND JESUS AT ONE STAGE, GENESIS 1:1, WERE THE CARRIERS OF GOD THE FATHER,

    THE MYSTERY IS THAT LUCIFER NEVER GOT INTO HIS MINDSET THAT

    JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, THE BEGINNING OF ALL, FROM THAT MOMENT ON ETERNAL LIFE, AND BEFORE ALL, PRECISELY  HIS LIFE SOURCE, WAS IN HIS HEART AT ALL, HE WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THE FATHER WAS IN HIM,  THUS HE WAS CONVINCED THAT AS SOON AS HE REBELS, THE FATHER LEAVES HIM AND HE WOULD BE AUTONOMOUS NOT DEPENDING ON GOD AT ALL, PLUS THAT HE WOULD BE ALL WHAT GOD THE FATHER ISN’T:

    DARKNESS, EVIL, MURDERER, FATHER OF LIES, SIMPLY IN ORDER TO TOPPLE JESUS/GOD TO BECOME HUMAN ON THIS PLANET! LUCIFER’S PROPERTY!

    THE ONLY PHYSICAL BEING AS A HUMAN IN FLESH AND BLOOD IN THE HEART OF THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, PRECISELY FROM AND

    ON EVE’S SIN, IN HER HEART, THE MOTHER OF ALL THE LIVING IN THE FLESH!

    WHILE JESUS REMAINED LOCKED SACRIFICED IN LUCIFER/SATAN’S HEART AS ETERNAL LIFE, FOR THE SAKE OF TRUTH AND JUSTICE OF GOD THE FATHER! SIMPLY SERVING SATAN AND AT THE SAME TIME IN FULL CONTROL OF THE SITUATION FOR THE SAKE OF GOD THE FATHER, WHO ALSO NOT NEVER ABANDONED HIS SON, BUT HE THROUGH THE HOLY GHOST, BETWEEN THE FATHER AND THE SON, EMPOWERED JESUS WITH UNIMANIGINAL, ASTOUNDING, AND STAGGERING POWER!  Slain like a lamb from the beginning of the world. Rev 13:8

    THE ONLY MOMENT THE FATHER LEFT JESUS WAS ON THE CROSS BEFORE HE DIED, SIMPLY AS HE GAVE JESUS ALL THINGS INTO HIS HANDS John13:3, TO JUSTIFY HIS SON, THE SON OF MAN’S SUPERIORITY OVER SATAN, 

    WHICH IS ALSO THE ONLY MOMENT JESUS LEFT SATAN’S HEART, AS PROOF THAT HE IS NOT AUTONOMOUS AT ALL AND SATAN REMAINED LOCKED IN JESUS’ BODY!

    NOW BELIEVE IT OR NOT :

    SATAN NOT ONLY NEVER LEFT JESUS’ BODY AS HE NORMALLY DOES ON EVERY CRIMINAL’S DEATH  CARRYING THE RESPECTIVE SOUL TO HIS FIRE AND DARKNESS HEADQUARTERS, BUT HE WAS SIMPLY ERADICATED FOREVER AS A SPIRIT RELATED TO THE HUMAN FLESH AND BLOOD BODY !  Well asserted in

    Luke 22:19 And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying:

    This is my body,

    which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me. 20In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice,

    the new testament in my blood,

    which shall be shed for you. 

    ALSO MORE EMPHATICALLY DEPICTED IN

    Mark 11:14 And answering he said to it:

    May no man hereafter eat fruit of thee anymore

    FOREVER

    And his disciples heard it.

    JESUS’ DEATH ON THE CROSS WAS BOTH THE END OF THE OT AND THE BEGINNING OF THE NEW

    THE NEW ETERNAL COVENANT

    NOW SATAN’S SPIRIT, ONE OF HIS TRUINE SPIRIT BECAME OBSOLETE IN RELATION TO THE SALVATION OF ALL SOULS, TOGETHER WITH THE OT. WHICH ALSO WAS RELATED TO THE HUMAN FLESH AND BLOOD BODY.

    Now the question is:

    HOW AND WHEN DID SATAN, IF HE EVER DID COME OUT OF JESUS’BODY AT A CERTAIN MOMENT IN TIME, 

    DID COME OUT!

    READ THE GOSPEL IT’S THERE IN BLACK ON WHITE! 

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

     

     

     

    #945300
    Nick
    Participant

    Hi Carmel,

    I believe NOT your fanciful creations that are distantly related to scripture.

    You must walk a lonely path.

    #945301
    Nick
    Participant

    Thank you Jodi,

    light shines in the darkness.

    #945302
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Nick…..This site is truly blessed by Jodi, and you to Nick.

    peace and love to you both and yours……….gene

    #945306
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Nick,

    You: I believe NOT your fanciful creations that are distantly related to scripture.

    Me:I would have mostly appreciated it if you were to produce scripture which have justified what you said!

    In the meantime read please:

    Galatians 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God?

    Or do I seek to please men?

    If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

    11For I give you to understand, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12For neither did I receive it of man, nor did I learn it;

    but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #945308
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    Why call “ME” good? There is “NONE” good, but “ONE” , that is, GOD: ….

    This not only show us Jesus never thought himself as good,

    but also proves he wasn’t God either.  

    Me: Again as usual! Your perspective is not in accordance with Jesus’ MESSAGE! Poor Gene!!! 

    Read the Aramaic version:

    Matthew 19:17 But he said to him, “Why do you call me good?

    There is none good except GOD ALONE.

    Gene, WHY DID JESUS CONFIRMED THAT GOD WAS  JUST “GOOD” ALONE IN THE ABOVE TRANSLATION?

    WHAT IN ACTUAL FACT JESUS WAS AIMING AT AND MEAN?

    Now let’s read Genesis 2:18 And the Lord God said:

    It is not good for man to be ALONE:

    let us make him a help like unto himself. 

    Now God created man in the image and LIKENESS OF GOD!

    That means that the above verse SINCE MAN WAS IN THE LIKENESS OF GOD, 

    is also a reference to God, and 

    THUS IN THE CASE ABOVE, BEFORE CREATION STARTED, GOD SAID:

    IT IS NOT GOOD FOR GOD TO BE ALONE!

    NOW TO THE NEXT VERSE:

    let us make him a help like unto himself. 

    Likewise, GOD ALSO SAID:

    LET US MAKE A HELP LIKE ONO HIMSELF, GOD!

    GOD IN THE PHYSICAL BODY OF “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, THE SON OF MAN.  AS MUCH AS GOD MADE A HELP ONTO MAN IN THE PHYSICAL BODY OF THE WOMAN, ALSO “THE WORD” MADE FLESH THE SON OF MAN, SINCE ALL I HIM, ALL BY HIM, AND ALL FOR HIM. 

    SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD! Rev.13:8

    Genesis 2:24 Wherefore a man shall leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife:

    and they shall be TWO in ONE FLESH.

    THUS GOD BECAME  GOOD ALONE AND ONE WITH HIS SON!

    John 10:30 I and the Father are one.

    NOW I BELIEVE, GOD IS NOT JUST GOOD ALONE,

    BUT AT LEAST IF NOT PERFECT,

    VERY GOOD NO?

    SO THE OTHER QUESTION IS

    WHAT IN ACTUAL FACT JESUS WAS REFERRING TO?

    CONSIDERING GOD THE FATHER WAS BOTH ALONE AND NOT IN JESUS,

    THE SON OF MAN? 

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

     

     

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