John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 24,341 through 24,360 (of 26,000 total)
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  • #943810
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Gene,

    Give me a moment, your questions require a more in depth response and I will get to it.

    Thanks for your patience.

    #943813
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Gene,

    The basic definition of “our” is to show possession of or a belonging to and is used as a plural…going simple. So to say “our Father” simply means this “father” isn’t reserved to an individual, but belongs to all and is everyone’s “father.”

    Now let’s take a look at Isa 53:1; “Who has believed our message?” Who is this “our” speaking? The understanding of who is speaking is extremely important to understanding what this chapter is conveying to the reader. It is the same “our” used in verses 4 and 5; in the latter part of 5 and 6 there is the pronoun “we” and “us”, which are still referring to the “our” from the previous verses, all of this flows together and must be read together. This is simple grammar. If this is agreeable, we can move on to discover who the “our” is.

    You believe it could refer to Isaiah and the people of Israel or possibly the entire world. This really doesn’t make sense because there is a message that is given; was this message from Isaiah, the nation of Israel, or the world? What is this message? Using simple deduction Isaiah can be ruled out as the prophecy is going through him, the nation of Israel can also be ruled out because starting in chapter 41 the “servant” is said to be “Jacob/Israel.” So this leave the world, more specifically, the nations of the world.

    How do we know it’s the nations of the world speaking? Reading the second half of verse one gives us the answer. “to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?” This reference goes back to chapter 52:10 “The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations;” To whom is the arm of the Lord revealed, to all the nations. So it is the nations of the world who are speaking in verses 1-9 and they are speaking to the nation of Israel.

    If we go back to Isa 52:15 we read: “So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.” The “sprinkle many nations” was confusing, so I went to the Hebrew to find clarification and it reads: “So shall he cast down (or overthrow) many nations;” This is what the “servant” is going to do (52:13). How many nations did Jesus overthrow? Is this overthrowing of nations why the “servant” is “dividing the spoils with the strong” (53:12)? I would have to say, yes.

    I will stop here to let you digest what I have written; questions or comments, let’s dig!

    Happy 82 years young!

    #943814
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi desiretruth,

    I am  Christian, and as a Christian, I must respect every word by Jesus, or else ON MY LAST DAY ON EARTH, ON MY DEATH IN THE FLESH!!!

    GOD KNOWS WHEN, BY IGNORING JESUS,

     BE JUDGED PRECISELY BY THE SAME 

    “WORD” MADE FLESH, JESUS,

    THE ONLY JUDGE FOR THE HUMAN RACE!

    Well clear and asserted by Jesus:

    John12:48 He that despiseth me,

    and receiveth not my words,

    hath one that judgeth him;

    the word that I have spoken,

    the same shall judge him on the last day.

    You: @Carmel,

    Are you unable to answer those questions yourself?

    EVENTUALLY ALWAYS AND ONLY IN MY OWN WAYS!

    WITH THE HOPE THAT YOU STOP WASTING YOUR ENERGY AND SHIFT TOTALLY YOURSELF FROM DIGGING WHAT ACCORDING TO YOU IS THE ONLY WAY  TO KNOW THE TRUTH, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME IGNORING NOT ONLY THE ONLY TRUTH THAT WALKED ON THIS PLANET BUT ALSO

    THE ONLY WAY TO ACQUIRE THE TRUTH!

    WHICH IS FAITH IN JESUS

    BY WHICH FAITH HE HIMSELF WILL FURNISH YOU WITH ALL THAT YOU ARE EAGERLY TO KNOW OF, EVEN BEFORE YOU ASK, ONCE YOU YOURSELF FULLY AND TRULY  LOVE JESUS.

    HEREUNDER IS THE GOSPEL, THE TRUTH, IN RELATION TO WHAT I SAID ABOVE,

    PLEASE READ AND ACCEPT IT IN THE TRUTH IN ORDER TO RECEIVE WHAT YOU ARE THIRSTY FOR!

    IT IS NOT WITHIN MY UTMOST INTEREST THAT I GO AND DIG INTO THE PAST OF MY BELIEF TO THE EXTENT THAT I REJECT PRECISELY WHAT I AM CONVINCED OF

    JESUS OUR REDEEMER 

    THE ONLY HUMAN BEING WHO SPIRITUALIZED HIS FLESH BEFORE HIS PASSION AND INTEGRATED IT WITH

    THE HOLY GHOST Isaiah 53:9

    WHO HE HIMSELF FURNISHED ME PRECISELY 

    WHAT HE DIED FOR

    HIS SPIRITUAL COMMANDMENTS!

    BY WHICH PROCESS HUMANITY WOULD EVENTUALLY

    INTEGRATE INTO ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE ONLY TRUE

    GODMAN

    JESUS CHRIST

    FOR THE PLEASURE OF GOD THE FATHER ON

    HIS LAST DAY OF THE LORD!]WHEN HE WILL BE ALL IN ALL IN

    JESUS CHRIST AS

    GOD OF ALL FLESH Jeremiah 32:27

    GOD ALMIGHTY

     

    IN THE MEANTIME I HAVE TO PUT THESE TWO WORDS  FULLY IN BOLD ESPECIALLY THE WORD “DEATH”

    Isaiah 53:9 And he shall give the ungodly for his burial, and the rich for

    his death:

     

    Please reflect on these scriptures hereunder!

    related to

    FAITH!

    But if any of you want wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all men abundantly, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea, which is moved and carried about by the wind. 7Therefore let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8A double minded man is inconstant in all his ways.

    John20: 29 Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.

    Luke 9:62 Jesus said to him: No man putting his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

    Matthew 9:17 And nobody putteth a piece of raw cloth unto an old garment. For it taketh away the fullness thereof from the garment, and there is made a greater rent. 17Neither do they put new wine into old bottles. Otherwise the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish. But new wine they put into new bottles: and both are preserved.

    Luke 8:17 For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad. 18Take heed therefore how you hear. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given: and whosoever hath not, that also which he thinketh he hath, shall be taken away from him.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #943815
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Desire Truth…….you are making some good points brother ,  yes Jacob is call a servant of God, and by extension “Israel”. And Israel certainly did suffer , but not for others , but because of their own sins. We can say Jacob was indeed a servant of God, but can we say the nation of Israel was? Scripture shows Israel did not serve God,  and was cast out of their lands, because of their own sins ad iniquities.

    Also we need to keep in mind that that prophesy may not have  been fulfilled “completely” yet. Also where has Israel received a portion with the great yet? Has that happened?

    Another thought.  While the term seed does show progeny’s. It also can be used as a product of something , as in the sower parable,  where the seed, is the kingdom of God sown by the sower, Jesus Christ. And when Jesus returns,  he will see the  results of his work,  his progeny (so to speak) , of his work on this earth the first time he was here.
    I just asking questions and am trying to follow your reasons in this, you are making some good scriptural points brother.

    peace and love to you and yours Desire Truth…………gene

    #943816
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @desiretruth

    You: Are you really going to say they new scripture better than someone who is educated in that field today?

    Me: Yes, because the Apostles were full of the Holy Spirit. 🔥🔥🔥

    #943821
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Desire Truth…….scripture saying “who has believed “our” report” Could the “our” there be referencing the “prophets” of God?  Because it was through the Prophets, that God sent his messages right.

    The thing about prophecy is, it can be applying to the time or day it is written, or a near or far future event that’s to take place.  So I think it would help if we can establish the intended timeline right?
    Verse 2,  is futuristic “he” “shall” grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground.  So this means it could not be  Jacob or Israel because they already existed at the time that “futuristic” prophesy was written right?     “He” is singular in form and specific to someone.
    Just something to think about brother.

    peace and love to you and yours Desire Truth……….gene

    #943826
    carmel
    Participant

     

     Hi Gene,

    Me: Gene, AGAIN, THE SAME OLD STORY!

    YOU NEVER PRODUCE THE GENUINE SCRIPTURE 

    BUT YOUR OWN; CORRUPTED TO QUENCH YOUR THIRST!

    HEREUNDER IS THE SCRIPTURE:

    Matthew 13:36 Then having sent away the multitudes, he came into the house, and his disciples came to him, saying: Expound to us the parable of the cockle of the field. 37Who made answer and said to them:

    He that soweth the good seed, is

    THE SON OF MAN.

    MY QUESTIONS:

    WHY THE SON OF MAN THAT SOWS?

    WHY  NOT THE SON OF GOD Gene?

    38And the field, is the world.

    And the good seed are

    THE CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM.

    WHY THE CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM?

    WHY NOT THE CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD?

    And the cockle, are the children of the wicked one. 39And the enemy that sowed them, is the devil. But the harvest is the end of the world. And the reapers are the angels. 40Even as cockle therefore is gathered up, and burnt with fire:

    so shall it be at the end of the world. 

    41The SON OF MAN shall send his angels, and they shall gather out of

    HIS KINGDOM

    all scandals, and them that work iniquity. 

    AGAIN WHY AT THE END OF THE WORLD,

    THE SON OF MAN SHALL SEND HIS ANGELS?

    WHY NOT GOD THE FATHER, OR THE SON OF GOD THAT SHALL SEND

    THEIR ANGELS?

    ALSO WHY IT IS THE KINGDOM OF

    THE SON OF MAN AND NOT SPECIFICALLY THE KINGDOM OF GOD?

    42And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

     43Then shall the just shine as the sun,

    IN THE KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER.

    NOW, THIS ONE IS DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO SWALLOW.

    WHY IN THE KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER?

    WHY NOT IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD?

    NOW,  SPECIFICALLY, WHO IS

    THEIR FATHER?

    He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    NOW JUST TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR YOU READ HEREUNDER!

    Hebrews 2:13 And again: I will put my trust in him. And again:

    Behold I and my children,
    whom God hath given me.

    You: It also can be used as a product of something , as in the sower parable,

     where the seed, is the kingdom of God sown by the sower,

    NO Gene, THE SEED IS NOT SPECIFICALLY THE CHILDREN OF

    THE KINGDOM GOD, 

    THE SEED IS THE CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM OF THE SON OF MAN!

    Jesus Christ.

    You: And when Jesus returns,  he will see the  results of his work,  his progeny (so to speak) ,of his work on this earth

    the first time he was here.

    NO Gene, JESUS, THE SON OF MAN,

    PREEXISTED AS A SPIRIT “THE WORD”…….

    and HE SOWS HIS GOOD SEED FROM 

    THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD, DESPITE

    SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD Rev.13:8

    JESUS, THE SON OF MAN AS A SPIRIT IS STILL SOWING, AND HE ALSO SOWED HIS SEED, HIS WORD IN YOUR HEART PRECISELY

    ON YOUR CONCEPTION!
    Notice the simple present tense:

    “HE THAT SOWS” THE GOOD SEED IS

    THE SON OF MAN.

    We use the simple present tense when an action is happening right now, or when it happens regularly (or unceasingly, which is why it’s sometimes called present indefinite).

    NOW, AT YOUR DISPOSAL YOU HAVE 

    A MORE SPECIFIED AND CLEARER PICTURE OF THAT SCRIPTURE, I ALSO HOPE THAT

    YOU ARE MORE IN A POSITION TO SEE THE TRUTH AND ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.

    WOULD YOU PLEASE?

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #943828
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel……the one corrupting our scriptures here is you and always has been you.

    Accusing me of not quoting scriptures is Just another “LIE”.   you and your father uses to try to deflect people from the truth of what scriptures actually say, and everyone here knows that by now or at least should know it.

    peace and love to you and yours……..gene

     

    #943829
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    You: Carmel……the one corrupting our scriptures here is you and always has been you.

    The only truth you BELIEVE IN is the above USELESS response, INSTEAD OF JUSTIFYING YOURSELF BY PRODUCING AT LEAST A SINGLE WORD FROM MY POSTS AND CONTRADICT ME!

    You: Accusing me of not quoting scriptures is Just another “LIE”.  

    I PRODUCED THE GENUINE SCRIPTURE!

    YOU PRODUCED YOUR OWN PERSONAL TWISTED SCRIPTURES!

    You: you and your father uses to try to deflect people from the truth of what scriptures actually say,

    YOUR TASK IS NOT TO JUST SAY SO, WHICH IS THE EASIEST WAY OUT, AND ALSO CONFIRM THE DESPERATE STATE YOU’RE IN,  BUT SPECIFICALLY  PRODUCE WHAT IN YOUR UNDERSTANDING I AM DEFLECTING PEOPLE WITH,

    I MEAN, FROM THE TRUTH OF WHAT SCRIPTURES ACTUALLY SAY, PLUS THAT YOU MUST  SAY OTHERWISE AND TELL US WHAT THE SAME SCRIPTURES I PRODUCED, ACCORDING TO YOUR UNDERSTANDING NOT ONLY WHAT ACTUALLY LITERALLY SAY, BUT ALSO WHAT ACTUALLY SPIRITUALLY MEAN.

    You: and everyone here knows that by now or

    at least should know it.

    DEFINITELY BETWEEN YOUR TWISTED AND MY GENUINE SCRIPTURE, AND ITS SPIRITUAL MESSAGE.

    FROM THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH!

    AS I HAVE MADE CLEAR!  

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #943842
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel…….Everyone here disagrees with the garbage you preach here, haven’t you noticed that yet?   I really don’t think you have produced a single scripture that haven’t been tainted with your “MANGOD” teachings about Jesus.  The only thing you are posting here is “LIES” ,  and twisted concoctions you and your Father, the devil , have come up with. IMO,  and everyone else here understands that also, not just me. 

    You need to hunt for another audience totally ignorant of what scriptures really say, you will have better luck, they’re then here.  IMO.

    peace and love to you and yours………gene

     

    #943845
    carmel
    Participant

    Carmel…….Everyone here disagrees with the garbage you preach here, haven’t you noticed that yet?   I really don’t think you have produced a single scripture that haven’t been tainted with your “MANGOD” teachings about Jesus.  The only thing you are posting here is “LIES” ,  and twisted concoctions you and your Father, the devil , have come up with. IMO,  and everyone else here understands that also, not just me. 

    Me: ALL THE ABOVE IS OF NO USE Gene.

    ALL THE ABOVE IS  WHAT YOU ARE GOOD FOR, HERE IT COMES:

    JUST BLA, BLA, and BLA!

    YOUR JOB IS TO CONTRADICT ME BY USING SCRIPTURE. 

    JUST DO IT!

    UNLESS YOU STOP USING THIS KIND OF POOR, CHILDISH, USELESS  LANGUAGE AND DO SO,

    YOU WOULD BE THE ONE WHO TALKS NOT ONLY

    PURE GARBAGE,

    BUT SIMPLY CONFIRM THAT YOU ARE NOT EVEN CAPABABLE

    TO JUSTIFY YOUR

    FAMOUS OPINION!

    NOW HEREUNDER IS THE MEANING OF THE WORD OPINION JUST IN CASE YOU HAPPENED TO MISUNDERSTAND ITS PROPER USE ESPECIALLY WHEN REFERRING TO SCRIPTURE!

    Dictionary
    Definitions from Oxford Languages ·

    opinion

    a view or judgement formed about something,

    not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

    Now Gene,

    GO BACK AND READ MY POST AGAIN,  ABANDON YOUR OPINION,

    SHOW US YOUR KNOWLEDGE, AND ANSWER MY QUESTION/S!

    TILL THEN 

    MINE STANDS AS TRUTH!

    ESPECIALLY MY PREACHING,

    WHICH YOU AND THE DEVIL NEVER WANT TO HEAR, 

    AND THAT IS THE PREACHING OF

    THE ONLY GODMAN AND FATHER OF THE HUMAN RACE ALL IN

    ONE SAME DIVINE FLESH AND BLOOD IN

    JESUS CHRIST 

     

    Matthew 13: 43Then shall the just shine as the sun,

    IN THE KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER.

    He that hath ears to hear, let him hear

     

    Galatians 3:26 For you are all the children of God by faith,

    in Christ Jesus. 

    27For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ,

    have put on Christ. 

    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female.

    For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

    29And if you be Christ’s,

    then are you the seed of Abraham,

    heirs according to the promise.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #943858
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel…..Talks cheap, show us where in any bible is the word “MANGOD”. Show us any scripture that contradicts these scriptures.  Jesus said this (not me) ……’’this eternal life, that they might know “YOU” THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD,  and Jesus Christ who , “YOU” have sent”.

    And again the Apostle Paul wrote,…….1 Ti 2:5 …”There is “ONE GOD”  and one “MEDIATOR” , between God and men,  “THE MAN”,  Jesus Christ”.

    Eph 4:6…..”ONE” God and Father of all,  who is above “ALL”,  and through “ALL”, and in you “ALL”.

    Just “ONE” GOD,  not two or three ,  triune God’s , not any “mangod’s  God the Father is Spirit and can therefore indwell us all, exactly as he indwelled “THE MAN” Jesus by the exact same Spirit we are anointed with.

    Carmel you have never gotten past these simple scriptures YET,  much less any others I have “directly” quoted from scriptures to you >. You have corrupted our scriptures from the very first day you appeared here and continue to.  With you long endless twisted postings here. No one here agrees with you,  it’s not just me but everyone here disagrees with your twisting up of scriptures.  Repent while there is time CARMEL.

    Peace and love to you and yours Carmel………..gene

    #943859
    carmel
    Participant

    You: Carmel…..Talks cheap, show us where in any bible is the word “MANGOD”. 

    TO START WITH:

    WHERE  DID I EVER USE THE TITLE “MANGOD”?

    NOWHERE!

    Gene, SCRIPTURES EMPHATICALLY CONFIRMS

    THAT GOD BECAME MAN IN 

    JESUS CHRIST 

    HERE IT COMES

    GODMAN!

    MORE TO COME!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #943862
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel and here scripture comes. (not me).  Num23:19…..God is not a man, that he should lie, neither the Son of man , that he should repent: 

    Jesus called himself a Son of man around 80 times. Question is when are you going to start to believe him and what he says?

    The word “GODMAN” or MANGOD,  does not appear once in our scriptures.  So who are we to believe,  you and your false twisted renditions or what scripture “actually says” or what God the Father and Jesus said?   

    peace and love to you and your Carmel…………gene

     

    #943875
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    Jesus said this (not me) ……’’this eternal life,

    that they might know???????????

    YOU” THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD,  and Jesus Christ who , “YOU” have sent”.

     

    John6:44 No MAN can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me,

    draw him;

    and I will raise HIM up in the last day.

    NOTICE:

    ” THE MAN” WHY???

    ON THE LAST DAY ON EARTH!

    ON HIS DEATH!

    AGAIN REPEATED BY JESUS, NOT ME: IN VERSE

    65 And he said: Therefore did I say to you,

    that no MAN can come to me,

    unless it be given him by my Father.

    ME: THUS, WITH RESPECT TO THE ABOVE,

    GOD THE FATHER, ALWAYS BY THE HOLY GHOST,

    SENT AND EMPOWERED BY JESUS CHRIST  AND WITH HIS UNIQUE GLORY AS THE SUPREME RULER

    OVER THE ENTIRE PROCESS OF

    ALL THE SPIRITS AND FLESH.

    Colossians 1: 16For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him and in him. 17And he is before all, and by him all things consist

    IN SHORT:

    GODMAN!

    MORE ASSERTED

    BY JESUS, NOT ME, IN THE SCRIPTURE HEREUNDER

    Matthew 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying:

    All power is given to me in heaven (SPIRITUAL) and in earth.(PHYSICAL)

    AND ALSO IN

    Jude 1:4 For certain men are secretly entered in, (who were written of long ago unto this judgment,) ungodly men, turning the grace of our Lord God into riotousness, and denying

    the ONLY sovereign Ruler,

    and our Lord Jesus Christ.

    I REPEAT WHETHER YOU ACCEPT IT OR NOT IT’S YOUR PIGEON!

    GODMAN!

    THUS, FOR MORE THAN 12 YEARS,

    I WAS DRAWN  BY THE HOLY GHOST FROM THE FATHER AS EXPLAINED IN FULL DETAIL ABOVE, I WAS BORN AGAIN IN THE SPIRIT,

    AND EVENTUALLY, I WILL MAKE CLEAR THINGS REGARDING John17:3 ABOVE, AS I ALWAYS DID, BUT I WOULD PREFER THAT YOU STICK  TO WHAT I ASKED YOU IN

    MY POST FIRST, IF YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF

    AN HONEST PERSON, PLUS ALSO, YOU MAINTAIN THE CONTEXT OF MY POST PLEASE, AND DON’T DEVIATE YOURSELF, AS YOU ALWAYS DO, ONCE YOU ARE CAUGHT ON ONE LEG, OR ELSE I WOULD RIGHTFULLY BE IN A POSITION TO CONCLUDE THAT YOU FIRST AND FOREMOST, ARE NOT  AN HONEST PERSON AND ALSO IN THE TRUTH AS JESUS SAID, NOT ME,  IN John 17:3

    THAT YOU MIGHT KNOW THE ONLY TRUE GOD!

    NOW HEREUNDER IS THE SCRIPTURE BY WHICH EVERY CHRISTIAN, BORN IN THE SPIRIT IN THE TRUTH,

    AS I, WITHOUT ANY HESITATION AT ALL  AM, WOULD

    KNOW THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST!

    Me: John 15:26 But when the Paraclete cometh,

    whom I WILL SEND you from the Father,

    the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father,

    he shall give testimony of me.

    John 16:12  I have yet many things to say to you: but you cannot bear them now. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,

    he will teach you all truth.

    ME: NOW JESUS IS THE TRUTH ITSELF!  AS MUCH AS THE FATHER IS ALSO THE TRUTH, ANSWER:

    WHY NOT THE FATHER, OFFICIALLY  AND IN CLARITY WITHIN THE SCRIPTURE CALLED

    THE TRUTH?

    IN THE SAME WAY OFFICIALLY AND IN CLARITY JESUS IS ALSO NOT CALLED

    GODMAN?

    FIND ME THE SCRIPTURE WHERE GOD THE FATHER IS OFFICIALLY  IN FULL CLARITY CALLED.

    THE TRUTH!

    Cont.John 16:12

    For he shall not speak of himself;

    HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF THE FATHER WHILE ON EARTH!

    WHY?

    but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak;

    but what things soever he shall hear, REGARDIN

    JESUS CHRIST GODMAN!

    and the things that are to come,

    he shall shew you.

    LIKE HE DID IN THE OT!

    ASSERTED HEREUNDER:

    14He shall glorify me;

    because he shall receive of mine,

    NOT OF THE FATHER, GOT IT Mr. Gene? not to the next:

    and shall shew it to you.

    now to the BIG ONE READ AND SWALLOW DOWN TO YOUR GUTTS!

    15All things whatsoever the Father hath, are mine.

    THE FATHER IS GOD

    JESUS FOR THE PLEASURE OF THE FATHER IS SUPERIOR 

    GODMAN!

    Therefore I said,

    that he shall receive of mine, and shew it to you.

    You: With you long endless twisted postings here. No one here agrees with you, 

    TRUTH HURTS Mr. Gene, 

    THAT’S WHY YOU DON’T WANT LONG POSTS FROM ME:

    NOW READ AGAIN MY POST HEREUNDER, AND IF YOU ARE AN HONEST  PERSON AND SERIOUSLY

     

    MIGHT KNOW THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST

    ANSWER MY QUESTION/S PLEASE!

     

    HEREUNDER IS THE SCRIPTURE:

    Matthew 13:36 Then having sent away the multitudes, he came into the house, and his disciples came to him, saying: Expound to us the parable of the cockle of the field. 37Who made answer and said to them:

    He that soweth the good seed, is

    THE SON OF MAN.

    MY QUESTIONS:

    WHY THE SON OF MAN THAT SOWS?

    WHY  NOT THE SON OF GOD Gene?

    38And the field, is the world.
    And the good seed are

    THE CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM.
    WHY THE CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM?

    WHY NOT THE CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD?

    And the cockle, are the children of the wicked one. 39And the enemy that sowed them, is the devil. But the harvest is the end of the world. And the reapers are the angels. 40Even as cockle therefore is gathered up, and burnt with fire:

    so shall it be at the end of the world. 
    41The SON OF MAN shall send his angels, and they shall gather out of

    HIS KINGDOM
    all scandals, and them that work iniquity. 

    AGAIN WHY AT THE END OF THE WORLD,

    THE SON OF MAN SHALL SEND HIS ANGELS?

    WHY NOT GOD THE FATHER, OR THE SON OF GOD THAT SHALL SEND

    THEIR ANGELS?

    ALSO WHY IT IS THE KINGDOM OF

    THE SON OF MAN AND NOT SPECIFICALLY THE KINGDOM OF GOD?

    42And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

     43Then shall the just shine as the sun,

    IN THE KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER.

    NOW, THIS ONE IS DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO SWALLOW.

    WHY IN THE KINGDOM OF THEIR FATHER?
    WHY NOT IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD?

    NOW,  SPECIFICALLY, WHO IS

    THEIR FATHER?
    He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
    NOW JUST TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR YOU READ HEREUNDER!

    Hebrews 2:13 And again: I will put my trust in him. And again:

    Behold I and my children,
    whom God hath given me.
    You: It also can be used as a product of something , as in the sower parable,

     where the seed, is the kingdom of God sown by the sower,

    NO Gene, THE SEED IS NOT SPECIFICALLY THE CHILDREN OF

    THE KINGDOM GOD, 

    THE SEED IS THE CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM OF THE SON OF MAN!

    Jesus Christ.
    You: And when Jesus returns,  he will see the  results of his work,  his progeny (so to speak) ,of his work on this earth

    the first time he was here.
    NO Gene, JESUS, THE SON OF MAN,

    PREEXISTED AS A SPIRIT “THE WORD”…….
    and HE SOWS HIS GOOD SEED FROM 

    THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD, DESPITE

    SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD Rev.13:8

    JESUS, THE SON OF MAN AS A SPIRIT IS STILL SOWING, AND HE ALSO SOWED HIS SEED, HIS WORD IN YOUR HEART PRECISELY

    ON YOUR CONCEPTION!
    Notice the simple present tense:

    “HE THAT SOWS” THE GOOD SEED IS

    THE SON OF MAN.

    We use the simple present tense when an action is happening right now, or when it happens regularly (or unceasingly, which is why it’s sometimes called present indefinite).

    NOW, AT YOUR DISPOSAL YOU HAVE 

    A MORE SPECIFIED AND CLEARER PICTURE OF THAT SCRIPTURE, I ALSO HOPE THAT

    YOU ARE MORE IN A POSITION TO SEE THE TRUTH AND ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.

    WOULD YOU PLEASE?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #943878
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel…….AGAIN LONG POSTS. That spin twisted LIES CONCERNING WHAT THE SCRIPTURES  DO NOT ACTUALLY SAY.  GO back and study your real pigeon 2Ths 2.

    That prophecy of Paul’s fits perfectly who you and many others have done with Jesus, the “ONLY ” MAN now sitting in the TEMPLE OF GOD. ”   And you and others display him as your God, and will be held accountable at his return.  That is for sure , unless you repent.

    peace and love to you and yours Carmel…………gene

     

    #943881
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

    You: Carmel…….AGAIN LONG POSTS. That spin twisted LIES CONCERNING WHAT THE SCRIPTURES  DO NOT ACTUALLY SAY.

    ME: WHEN WILL YOU LEARN?

    PROVE IT NOT JUST SAY THE ABOVE!

    BE SPECIFIC!

    PRODUCE YOUR PERCEPTIONS AND CONTRADICT ME BY USING SCRIPTURE!

    AS SIMPLE AS THAT!

    NOW IN MY POST,

    THANKS TO THE HOLY GHOST, I GAVE YOU A CLEAR AND SPECIFIC ANSWER TO YOUR PERCEPTIONS REGARDING 

    “THE ONLY TRUE GOD” IN John17:3  

    DO THE SAME AND ANSWER ME!

    SO NOW I REPEAT AGAIN:

    GOD THE FATHER IS FOR SURE

    THE TRUTH!

    BUT WHY DON’T WE READ IN FULL CLARITY IN THE OT.,

    THAT THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD?

    SHALL WE CONCLUDE THEN THAT THE FATHER IS NOT THE ONLY TRUE GOD, SINCE YOU SAID THAT WHATEVER IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE OT 

    IT WOULD BE A LIE.

    ANSWER IS IT A LIE THEN THAT THE FATHER SPECIFICALLY IN FULL CLARITY IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD, SINCE

    IT IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE OT.

    YES OR NO PLEASE!

    OR IF YOU ACCEPT THAT THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD, EVEN IF NOT IN FULL CLARITY MENTIONED AS SUCH IN THE OT,

    WITH THE SAME ARGUMENT, SHALL WE ACCEPT THAT  JESUS IS

    THE ONLY TRUE

    GODMAN

    EVEN IF IT IS NOT MENTIONED AS SUCH IN THE SCRIPTURE?

    John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 

    THAT THEY MAY KNOW YOU,

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD,

    SPIRITUAL IN THE FATHER AND PHYSICAL IN THE SON,

    JESUS CHRIST, ….

    John 10:30 I and the Father are one.

    John 14:9 Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip,

    he that seeth me seeth the Father also…..

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #943882
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel…….The Old Testament , most certainly mentions that there is only “ONE” God , in many places,   God himself said it many times.  I have quoted it to you already Isa 44:6….> Thus says the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts:  I am first, and I am last; and beside me there is “NO” God.

    and again Isa 44:8….> Fear you not , neither be afraid: have not I told you from that time and declared it? Years my witnesses, is there a God besides me? Yea there is no God; I KNOW NOT ANY.

    NOW if God says there are not any God besides him and he does not know “ANY” , THEN THAT MAKES HIM   “THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD,  even a simpleton can understand that.  This is not to even mention the first commandment says the same thing> “thou shall have NO OTHER GOD BESIDE ME”. 

    FACE IT Carmel, you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about, as I said your pigeon is 2 Ths 2.    That is “exactly what you and many others  hear and in so-called “Christianity” today are doing, by Making the “MAN” Jesus into your God.  REPENT!

    Peace and love to you and yours Carmel………gene

     

     

    #943885
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

     

    #943886
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gene,

     

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