John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

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Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 24,301 through 24,320 (of 26,000 total)
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  • #943747
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Proclaimer,

    You have come up with an interesting “thought” explaining who the “our” is; however, it doesn’t fit and we still don’t know who the “our” actually is, you have once again speculated. The words written by Isaiah tell you who the “our” is; there is no guessing or speculating, you just have to read it, it tells you who is speaking. Zero mystery!

    Just like in Job, it is very important to understand who is speaking in Isa 53. It literally tells you who the “our”, “us”, and “we” are in verse 5. Don’t cherry pick, use the words in the context they have been written. Just because it sounds like it could be true, doesn’t make it so; you need evidence and you have given none. What the modern church has done with this chapter is the same as reading a paragraph from a novel and then telling everyone what the novel is about. It can’t be done; yet, 2.5 billion “christians” believe Isa 53 is about Jesus.

    You’re still ignoring this “reward” in verses 10-12 and how this could be pointing to Jesus.

    Still waiting for the verse that states the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind from the old testament. You want honesty; if this isn’t in the old testament, that makes Paul a liar, a fraud, and a manipulator; bringing everything he wrote into question. Big GASPS from all!

    You also state: “Are you not aware that Christ died for your sins?” I am fully aware of what I was told, now I want the proof. Read the above and then find the scripture that states the innocent will take on the guilt of another – let alone the sins of mankind until the end of time (what saved people before Jesus?). Also, please confirm where God ever required a human sacrifice for atonement of sin. Then if you are feeling super ambitious, explain why the church is constantly and continually arguing over what is written in the new testament if it’s God breathed/inspired, how can one dispute what has “come” from God? Funny how in the old testament it’s “God said.”

     

    YOU: “I am not saying they are clueless, but let’s be honest. If Jesus is the Christ, then the Rabbi’s who do not believe that Jesus is the Christ are clueless in that respect.

    ME: A very true statement and an idea the Jews missing Jesus as the Messiah is taught in the church today. Who was this Messiah the Jews are looking/waiting for written in their Tanakh? What is this Messiah suppose to do when he comes? Where in the old testament does it say the Messiah was to perform miracles, signs and wonders, and everything else he did? This best any modern day mind can come up with was the Messiah was to suffer and die. One would think there would be more detail in the old confirming our modern understanding.

    YOU: For these Rabbis to be correct, it would mean that the Christ has not come yet and Jesus was either an impostor or never existed.”

    ME: Well that’s an interesting thought…

     

    The video you posted appears to be scripted, do you really believe that after reading the “forbidden chapter” for the first time these people immediately understood it to be the “Messiah.” If these where orthodox Jews they would have scoffed at the idea this passage was referring to Jesus. Now I can’t attest to whether or not 53 is read in the synagogues, but I do know this chapter is taught by Rabbis and is not hidden or forbidden in any way. The book of Isaiah is highly regarded by Jewish teachers and to claim they leave out a single chapter seems to be highly disingenuous by those making this claim. In other words, lies!

    #943749
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @desiretruth

    Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denies the Father and the Son. 1 John 2:22

    #943750
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    You:

    “NOW, THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS, DON’T RECEIVE JUST THE BENEFIT OF HIS ETERNAL SPIRIT, THE HOLY GHOST, ON THEIR LAST DAY ON EARTH, WHERE THEY BECOME LIVING SOULS ON THEIR DEATH, THE SONS OF GOD! IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD.,”

    Me

    You Say  WHERE THEY BECOME LIVING SOULS ON THEIR DEATH,

    Jesus never, ever taught this, but rather said that

    death is a sleep awaiting the resurrection “either to life or to judgment.

    Me:

    Read again what I posted:

    NOW, THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS, DON’T RECEIVE JUST THE BENEFIT OF HIS ETERNAL SPIRIT, THE HOLY GHOST, ON THEIR LAST DAY ON EARTH, WHERE THEY BECOME LIVING SOULS ON THEIR DEATH, THE SONS OF GOD! IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

    John 5:24 Amen, amen I say unto you, that he who heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath life everlasting; and cometh not into judgment,

    but is passed from death to life.

    Berean,

    WHY DID YOU LEAVE OUT VERSE 24 ABOVE AND STARTED FROM VERSE 25?

    VERSE 24 CLEARLY SAYS THAT HE WHO BELIEVES IN JESUS HAS

    ETERNAL LIFE AND,

    HERE IT COMES:

    COMES NOT TO JUDGMENT,

    but is passed from death to life.

    THIS IS ALSO CONFIRMED BY JESUS IN

    John6:54 He that eateth my flesh,
    and drinketh my blood,

     hath everlasting life:

    and I will raise him up on the last day.

    THE ABOVE BEREAN IS A REFERENCE TO 

    THE DAY OF OUR DEATH!

    OUR LAST DAY ON EARTH!

    ON OUR DEATH, AS CHRISTIANS  AND EAT JESUS’ FLESH AS I EXPLAINED IN THAT CHAPTER,  WE WOULD NOT BE JUDGED, BUT 

    PASS FROM DEATH INTO LIFE IN A FLICK OF AN EYE!

    THIS IS ALSO MENTIONED BY JESUS IN

    John 11:25 Jesus said to her:

    I am the resurrection and the life:

    he that believeth in me, although he be dead, shall live:

    IN THE ABOVE JESUS MADE IT CLEAR THAT DESPITE WE WOULD BE DEAD FOR THOSE WHO KNOW US, WE IN FACT WOULD BE ALIVE 

    AS LIVING SOULS!

    THE BODY WOULD BE DEAD, BUT THE SOUL WOULD LIVE FOREVER:

    ETERNAL LIFE! ASSERTED HEREUNDER:

     26And everyone that liveth, and believeth in me,

    shall not die forever.

    EVERYONE  THAT BELIEVES IN JESUS WHILE ON EARTH, ALIVE IN THE FLESH, WOULD NEVER REALIZE ON HIS DEATH THAT HE BE DEAD IN THE FLESH AT ALL,

    AS HE WOULD BE ALIVE IN HIS SOUL!

    HE WOULD NEVER EVEN TASTE DEATH AT ALL,

    HE JUST LIVES AS HE LIVED IN HIS FLESH WITHOUT THE LEAST AWARENESS!

    CONFIRMED  HEREUNDER :

    1John 3:13 Wonder not, brethren, if the world hate you. 

    14We know that we have passed from death to life,

    OK? Berean! John MADE IT CLEAR THAT ONCE WE WHILE LIVING ON EARTH 

    WE LOVE OUR BRETHREN, 

    WHICH MEANS EXACTLY THAT WE LOVE JESUS, 

    WE WOULD KNOW THAT WE HAVE PASSED FROM DEATH INTO LIFE,

    OBVIOUSLY, IN OUR SOULS, READ:

    because we love the brethren.

    He that loveth not, abideth in death. 

    THOSE WHO LOVE NOT 

    LIVE IN DEATH AS BEFORE, SPIRITUALLY DEAD!

    NOW READ WHAT YOU POSTED, I MEAN VERSE 25:

    John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you,

    The hour is coming,

    and now is,

    THE ABOVE Berean IS A REFERENCE TO

    THE HOUR OF JESUS’ DEATH! REFLECT PLEASE WHAT JESUS SAID HEREUNDER:

    when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God:

    and they that hear shall live.

    THE DEAD IN THE ABOVE IS A REFERENCE TO ALL,

    SOULS SPIRITUALLY DEAD IN HELL, 

    HEAR THE VOICE OF JESUS, GLORIFIED IMMEDIATELY ON HIS DEATH,

    BOTH THE SON OF GOD AND THE SON OF MAN, to be clear

    JESUS THE MAN,

    JESUS CHRIST GLORIFIED IN HIS SPIRITUAL FLESH IN HELLFIRE, John17:3 John5:24-27

    GODMAN John13:31,32, John17:1 John17:3

    THUS ON PREACHING HIS GOSPEL TO ALL SOULS IN HELL, 1Peter3:18,19

    THEY RECOGNIZED HIS VOICE, AND ACCEPTED HIS GOSPEL, THUS,

    THEY KNEW THAT JESUS WAS IN THE TRUTH THE MESSIAH SENT FROM THE FATHER! John17:3 FOR THE SIMPLE REASON, THAT THEY WERE NOT SPIRITUALLY DEAD ANYMORE, WITH SATAN’S SPIRIT IN THEIR SOULS,

    BUT ALIVE ON JESUS’DEATH, WITH JESUS’SPIRIT “THE WORD” IN THEIR SOULS, ORIGINALLY SLAIN LIKE A ALMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD Rev.13:8!

    AS MENTIONED BY JESUS IN

    John 10: 14 I am the good shepherd;

    and I know mine, and mine know me.

    27My sheep hear my voice:

    and I know them,

    and they follow me.

     28And I give them life everlasting;

    and they shall not perish forever, (IN HELL) and no man shall pluck them out of my hand.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #943751
    carmel
    Participant

    Danny Dabs,

    AMEN!

    #943755
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Danny,

    You responded to nothing I wrote to either refute or confirm; and now I am “antichrist” because I don’t see Jesus in Isa 53?!?!?? How about instead of being judgmental, do some research into what you believe and confirm it’s truth, instead of hitting the “I Believe Button.”

    By the way, I have never denied God and you have yet to produce any scripture that states the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind. Paul said according to scripture…where’s the proof?

    #943757
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    By the way, I have never denied God and you have yet to produce any scripture that states the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind. Paul said according to scripture…where’s the proof?

    I haven’t got time to post. But a quick Google and I found this. I can’t vouch for everything written here, but it certainly mentions things that I would say.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/death-resurrection-Messiah.html

    #943759
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Desire Truth>…. Proclaimer said …..YOU: “For these Rabbis to be correct, it would mean that the Christ has not come yet and Jesus was either an impostor or never existed.”

    ME: Well that’s an interesting thought.

    Desire Truth> please tell me you not starting to think that Jesus is not the MESSIAH , don’t let those Jews corrupt your mind,  they knew ” exactly” the time of his “prophesied” birth, and acknowledge it by their own Rabbis to king Herod. Mat2:4.

    DAN 9;24-27.   GIVES YOU THE TIMELINE.  Jesus was indeed a true “MESSIAH”.  OF GOD , the same as Moses also was a true MESSIAH of God .  

    peace and love to you and yours Desire Truth……….gene

    #943760
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Gene,

    You have to understand where I am coming from, I have been “inside” the church for almost 40 years and when I look back today, it looks like a cult (I did not say “occult”). Did you receive the private message I sent you? What I told you wraps everything up with a tidy little bow.

    You say the Jews will corrupt my mind; tell me how the “christian” thoughts and beliefs are superior. If Christianity is perfect, why are we arguing over what the new testament says, we should all be united in one thought. As we can see, we are not! I find it humorous how as “Christians” we speak highly of the Jew, we fully support the Jew, we stand with the Jew; but when it comes to understanding scripture as the Jew does, they’re wrong. It’s like we don’t want God’s judgment on us for not supporting the Jew so we say we support them; but when it comes to their beliefs of God or interpretation of scripture, it’s trash. A dangerous path to be walking on. This brings to mind what Martin Luther wrote (“99 Theses” Luther) when he said all Jewish synagogues and schools should be burned to the ground and what doesn’t burn needs to be buried…just a little antisemitic. This was from the mouth of the one credited to starting the reformation. If you want his book let me know, I’ll send you a link.

    You bring up Daniel 9, can you tell me what is being said in verses 1-19 or 20-23? Yet, everyone today can recite 24-27 and from it we get Jesus and the “seven year tribulation.” It doesn’t refer to Jesus or any future “seven year tribulation.” Verses 24-27 MUST be placed into the context they are written; what’s also key in understanding this chapter is some Jewish history and why Daniel is crying out to God.

    Check you private messages…

    #943761
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Proclaimer,

    Don’t vouch for anything on that site; it’s filled with lies, with truth spattered here and there. The claim is Isa 53, Ps 16, Ps 22 are references to Jesus; I have looked into all of those passages and they don’t say what we where told they said. If you are simply looking at the English translations, you’re missing it; go to the source of all this, use God’s language – Hebrew and watch it change your perspective.

    #943763
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Carmel

    You

    John6:54 He that eateth my flesh,
    and drinketh my blood,

     hath everlasting life:
    and I will raise him up on the last day.
    THE ABOVE BEREAN IS A REFERENCE TO 

    THE DAY OF OUR DEATH!
    OUR LAST DAY ON EARTH!

     

    Me

     

    ‘ON THE LAST DAY’ DOES NOT REFER TO THE DAY WE DIE.
    IF THIS WAS THE CASE JESUS WOULD HAVE TOLD US CLEARLY.
    IT IS BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE THAT THE SOUL IS IMMORTAL THAT YOU DO THIS, BUT THAT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT THE TRUTH.

    THE LAST DAY IS WHEN JESUS RETURNS IN THE FATHER’S GLORY AND NOT THE DAY WE DIE.

    👇

    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: 👉and the dead in Christ shall rise first:👈

    John.6
    [39] And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again 👉at the last day.

    [40] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and👉 I will raise him up 👉at the last day.

    [44] No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and 👉I will raise him up 👉at the last day.

    [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and👉 I will raise him up👉 at the last day.

    IN THESE VERSES “THE LAST DAY” IS ALWAYS CONNECTED WITH THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD IN CHRIST WHICH TAKES PLACE WHEN JESUS RETURNS IN THE GLORY OF THE FATHER.
    THIS IS NOT CONNECTED WITH I DAY WE DIE.

    Another text ( A BIG ONE)

    showing that the last day is related to the resurrection of the deads (in Christ).

    👇

    John.11
    [24] Martha saith unto him(Jesus), I know that👉 he (Lazard) shall rise again 👉in the resurrection 👉at the last day.

    🙏

    #943764
    Berean
    Participant

    Gene

    You

    DAN 9;24-27.   GIVES YOU THE TIMELINE.  Jesus was indeed a true “MESSIAH”.  OF GOD , the same as Moses also was a true MESSIAH of God .  

    Me

    This is correct for Daniel 9:24-27

    But Jesus is not a messiah, HE IS👉 THE 👈MESSIAH (prophesied in the OT)
    HE IS NOT A SAVIOR BUT “THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD”

    👇
    Daniel 9
    Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto👉 THE Messiah the Prince….

     

    John 1:41
    He first findeth his own brother Simon, and knows unto him, We have found👉 the Messias,👈 which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

    🙏

    #943765
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    A couple of quick points I would like to make while I have the time.

    1)
    Prophecy is not meant to be understood by the carnal minded. It is hidden from the world and revealed by God in the required season. So if you are looking to be spoon-fed prophecy understanding, then you will receive nothing. This scripture comes to mind:

    No, we speak of the mysterious and hidden wisdom of God, which He destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it. For if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

    Prophecy is not meant to be understood by those of the world including principalities.

    2)
    The second point is to explain that this is not in the imagination of those who translated the New Testament, rather it is the apostles that makes direct claims of fulfillment.

    Isaiah 53
    4 Surely he took up our pain
        and bore our suffering,
    yet we considered him punished by God,
        stricken by him, and afflicted.
    5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
        he was crushed for our iniquities;
    the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
        and by his wounds we are healed.

    Isaiah 53:12
    …he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

    1 Peter 2:24
    who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.

    Matthew 8:17
    This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
    “He took up our infirmities
    and bore our diseases.”


    @desiretruth
    , it is clear that you have a problem with the New Testament, Jesus Christ, the Apostles, and the Body of Christ, right?

    #943766
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    You: ‘ON THE LAST DAY’ DOES NOT REFER TO THE DAY WE DIE.
    IF THIS WAS THE CASE JESUS WOULD HAVE TOLD US CLEARLY.

    Me: HE NOT ONLY TOLD US  CLEARLY BUT HE MANIFESTED IT ON THE CROSS!

    WHEN WAS THE LAST DAY ON EARTH FOR JESUS?

    ON HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS! NO?

    WHAT DID HE DO ON HIS DEATH, MORE PRECISE
    ON HIS LAST DAY ON EARTH?

    HE RAISED HIMSELF UP,

    HE RAISED HIS BODY UP INTO FULL GLORY ONE SUBSTANCE WITH

    HIS SOUL IN THE HOLY GHOST

    BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH AS

    JESUS CHRIST

    AND BECAME

    GODMAN, John13:31-32, John17:1,

     AS HE WAS IN THE FORM OF GOD BEFORE CREATION! John 17:5 in one glory with the Father before the world was.

    Read  what he said please and reflect:

    John 6:39 Now this is the will of the Father who sent me:

    that of all that he hath given me,

    I should lose nothing;

    but should raise it up again in the last day.  

    ATTENTION PLEASE:

    …that of all that he hath given me,

    I should lose nothing;
    but should raise it up again on the last day. 

    OK? JESUS’ LAST DAY WAS ON HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS.

    LIKEWISE, ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS WOULD ALSO BE RAISED IN THEIR SOULS ON THEIR LAST DAY ON EARTH IN FLESH AS HUMANS!

    THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION OF THE SOUL!

    ASSERTED IN

    John6:54 He that eateth my flesh,
    and drinketh my blood,

     hath everlasting life:

    The above Berean is as clear as crystal!

    HE THAT EATS MY FLESH, while on earth as a human being,

    HAS EVERLASTING LIFE,

    HE WILL BE ALIVE IN HIS SOUL, IN JESUS’SPIRIT, EVEN WHILE ON EARTH!
    AS HE BELIEVES IN JESUS:

    ETERNAL LIFE!

    NOW READ JESUS OWN WORD BEFORE HE DIED:

    Luke 23:42 And he said to Jesus: Lord, remember me when thou shalt come into thy kingdom. 

    43And Jesus said to him:

    Amen I say to thee,

    THIS DAY thou shalt be with me in paradise.

    “THIS DAY”

    WAS THE LAST DAY THE THIEF WAS ON EARTH!
    AND THAT SAME DAY:

    HE, HIS SOUL, WAS WITH JESUS IN PARADISE!

    NOW BE AWARE BEREAN,

    ON JESUS’DEATH,

    PARADISE WAS OUR EARTH,

     JESUS, ON HIS DEATH, BECAME THE SUPREME RULER:

    GOD’S KINGDOM CAME ON EARTH AND GOD’S WILL WAS DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN!

    HE SAVED OUR WORLD,

    THE THIEF SAW JESUS COMING IN FULL GLORY WHILE HE WAS STILL ON THE CROSS IN ECSTASY AND NEVER FELT ANY PAIN WHEN THEY CRASHED HIS KNEES.

    HE WAS WITH JESUS BOTH IN FRONT OF HIS EYES,

    AND IN HIS SOUL!

    THIS IS HINTED OUT BY JESUS IN

    Mark 9: 27 But I tell you of a truth: There are some standing here that shall not

    taste death,

    till they see the kingdom of God.

    HUMANS WERE MORE HOLY THAN ADAM AND EVE WERE WHILE IN THE GARDEN,

    AS JESUS PURIFIED THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD ON HIS DEATH, ON HIS LAST DAY ON EARTH,

    AND FULFILLED THE OLD COVENANT.

    HE RULED ON EARTH FOR FORTY DAYS AS KING! TILL PENTECOST!

    WELL ASSERTED BY JESUS BEFORE HE DIED:

    And Jesus said: Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. ….

    HUMANS WERE NOT AWARE OF WHAT OCCURRED IN THEIR SOULS!

    THE OLD COVENANT IN RELATION TO THE FLESH AND BLOOD PROCESS, SATANIC,
    WAS FULFILLED BY JESUS ON HIS DEATH!

    THE FACT THAT HE PURPOSELY DIED IN HIS FLESH, IN ORDER TO GO THROUGH THE SATANIC PROCESS OF DEATH AND

    ERADICATED SATAN FROM THE WORLD, WENT TO HELL, PREACHED HIS GOSPEL, AND MANIFESTED

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD TO ALL THOSE IN HELL IN

    HIMSELF

    John 17:3 Now this is eternal life:

    That they may know thee,

    the only true God, and Jesus Christ,

    whom thou hast sent.

    JESUS AS  A HUMAN BEING IN THE FLESH IN THE MIDST OF FIRE! MOSES’ BURNING BUSH WITHOUT BEING CONSUMED!

    Reflect please: JESUS SAID IN THE ABOVE:

    Now this is eternal life:…..

    IN THE ABOVE JESUS REFERRED TO HIS SPIRIT,

    ETERNAL LIFE!

    ORIGINALLY SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD!Rev13:8,

    BUT ALIVE ON HIS DEATH!

    NOW READ WHAT I SAID AGAIN PLEASE:

    THUS ON PREACHING HIS GOSPEL TO ALL SOULS IN HELL, 1Peter3:18,19

    ORIGINALLY SPIRITUALLY DEAD, WITH SATAN IN THEIR SOULS.

     WHO DIED ON THE CROSS TEMPORARILY LOCKED IN JESUS’BODY!

    THEY RECOGNIZED JESUS’ VOICE, AND ACCEPTED HIS GOSPEL, THUS,

    THEY KNEW THAT JESUS WAS IN THE TRUTH THE MESSIAH SENT FROM THE FATHER! John17:3 FOR THE SIMPLE REASON,

    THAT THEY WERE NOT SPIRITUALLY DEAD ANYMORE!

    SATAN WAS NOT IN THEIR SOUL ANYMORE,

    I REPEAT, HE WAS TEMPORARILY DEAD /LOCKED IN JESUS’BODY!

    ON THE OTHER HAND, JESUS, ETERNAL LIFE WAS, AND THEY ACCEPTED HIS GOSPEL!

    MORE TO COME

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #943767
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Carmel

    HE NOT ONLY TOLD US  CLEARLY BUT HE MANIFESTED IT ON THE CROSS!

    WHEN WAS THE LAST DAY ON EARTH FOR JESUS?

    ON HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS! NO?
    WHAT DID HE DO ON HIS DEATH, MORE PRECISE
    ON HIS LAST DAY ON EARTH?

    HE RAISED HIMSELF UP,
    HE RAISED HIS BODY UP INTO FULL GLORY ONE SUBSTANCE WITH

    HIS SOUL IN THE HOLY GHOST
    BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH AS

    JESUS CHRIST
    AND BECAME

    GODMAN, John13:31-32, John17:1,

    …..

     

     

     

    …….

     

     

     

    Me

    I don’t believe what you say. Jesus died and rose again on the third day as announced.

    🙏

    #943770
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Desire Truth….I do know where you are coming from, I left the false teachings the Catholic and Protestant religions a long long time ago,  I also kept the law way better then the Jews do, by far.  I did that for seven years,  from the time I was 3o to about 37,  I study and obeyed “the law”far better then my Jewish friends did , I was in the WWCG,  A CULT, that kept the law far more exact then any Jew does,  and I knew many JEWS, PLAYED CARDS WITH THE EVERY MONTH for years, I have been to their synagogues many times,  their Rabbi even came to my house and cooked a kosher meal for me.   So you see I know a lot about the Jews and their beliefs.  I also was baptized twice once when I was 21 years  old in the Baptist church. And Once in the WWCG at the age of 30.   I have studied the scriptures for over 60 years of my life.  I am just a few days from being 82 years old now.

    This is what I would like to tell you> you are right about the fact, both the CATHOLIC AND their Sisters the PROTESTANT Churches, are wrong about what they teach especially the false Doctrine of the Trinity,  and the Preexistence of Jesus.  But I will also tell you the Jewish religion is also wrong,   As the APOSTLES and Jesus himself brought out many times.

    So there you go ,  I believe in the long run, the “Spirit of truth” guiding you will,  “reveal” it unto you. Trust in the SPIRIT and  Focus on what Jesus “exactly” said,  and it will guide you through this maze of religious confusions that exist today. IMO

    peace and love to you and yours Desire Truth………….gene

    #943772
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @desiretruth

    For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16

    #943773
    Berean
    Participant

    @Danny Dabbs

    AMEN!

    #943774
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Gene,

    Thank you for your kinds words and encouragement.

    #943776
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

     

    Me: HE NOT ONLY TOLD US  CLEARLY BUT HE MANIFESTED IT ON THE CROSS!

    WHEN WAS THE LAST DAY ON EARTH FOR JESUS?

    ON HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS! NO?
    WHAT DID HE DO ON HIS DEATH, MORE PRECISE
    ON HIS LAST DAY ON EARTH?

    HE RAISED HIMSELF UP,
    HE RAISED HIS BODY UP INTO FULL GLORY ONE SUBSTANCE WITH

    HIS SOUL IN THE HOLY GHOST
    BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH AS

    JESUS CHRIST
    AND BECAME

    GODMAN, John13:31-32, John17:1,

     

    You: I don’t believe what you say.

    Jesus died and rose again on the third day as announced.

    Me: I NEVER DENIED THE ABOVE!

    BUT IT SEEMS QUITE CLEAR THAT YOU KNOW ONLY THAT PART REGARDING JESUS, THE MAN, TO BE CLEAR:

    WHAT YOU SAID ABOVE, IS ONLY A REFERENCE TO JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, NOT JESUS THE SON OF GOD!

    JESUS THE SON OF GOD AND JESUS THE SON OF MAN, TO MAKE IT CLEAR TO YOU

    THE HOLY GHOST/JESUS’SOUL, and 

    “THE WORD” JESUS’FLESH BODY,

    WERE BOTH DISTINCT BEINGS  IN ONE BODY ON THE CROSS, IN THE SAME WAY

    YOU AND YOUR SOUL WOULD EVENTUALLY BE ON YOUR DEATHBED!

     

    NOW ONLY

    THE SON OF MAN “THE WORD” MADE FLESH DIED AS A SACRIFICE!

    LIKEWISE, AS A BELIEVER IN JESUS,

    ONLY YOUR BODY DIES ON YOUR DEATH! Well asserted in

    John6:40 And this is the will of my Father that sent me:

    that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth in him,

    may have life everlasting,

    ME: DURING HIS LIFE ON EARTH, WHY?

    FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT ONCE YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS, WHILE ON EARTH,  YOU WOULD BE DENYING 

    SATAN THE EMPIRE OF DEATH!

    NOT JUST OF YOUR FLESH BUT ALSO OF YOUR SOUL!

    Matthew 10:28 And fear ye not them that kill the body, and are not able to kill the soul:

    but rather fear him which can destroy both soul and body in hell. 

    THUS JESUS CONCLUDED AND SAID:

    and I will raise him up in the last day.

    AS SOON AS A BELIEVER DIES, INSTANTLY HE WILL LIVE IN JESUS, IN WHAT HE BELIEVED IN! OR MORE PRECISELY!

    IN WHAT HIS SOUL BELIEVED IN, AS THE FLESH WOULD BE DEAD WITHOUT THE SOUL, THE SOUL IS THE LIFE OF OUR FLESH WITHIN OUR HEART,

    THE ABODE OF

    “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN!

    ENGARFTED IN ALL CREATURES’ HEARTS AS ETERNAL LIFE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING IN THE VERY FIRST CREATURE

    LUCIFER!

    OUR ORIGINAL SPIRIT!

     

    NOW ON THE OTHER HAND, ON THE DEATH OF THE SON OF MAN,

     THE SON OF GOD, THE HOLY GHOST, JESUS’SOUL,

    ACQUIRED JESUS’FLESH BODY ACTS 20:28 AND BOTH 

    THE SON OF GOD AND THE SON OF MAN, ON JESUS’DEATH, WERE NOT TWO ANYMORE BUT

    TWO IN ONE FLESH IN

    JESUS CHRIST!

    GODMAN John13:31-32, John 17:1

     

    now Berean, hereunder are scriptures that support my preaching!

    IT IS YOUR TASK  NOW THAT BY USING THE SAME SCRIPTURES HEREUNDER YOU CONTRADICT ME,  AND ALSO SAY WHAT THESE SCRIPTURES

    ARE TELLING US!

     

    1Peter 3:18Because Christ also died once for our sins, the just for the unjust:

    that he might offer us to God,

    being put to death indeed in the flesh,

    but enlivened in the spirit,

    19In which also coming he preached to those spirits that were in prison: 

    John 5:24 Amen, amen I say unto you, that he who heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath life everlasting;

    and cometh not into judgment,

    but is passed from DEATH TO LIFE.

    25Amen, amen I say unto you, that the hour cometh, and now is,

    when the DEAD shall hear the voice of the

    SON OF GOD,

    and they that hear shall live. 

    26For as the Father hath life in himself,

    so he hath given the Son also to have life in himself:

     27And he hath given him power to do judgment,

    because he is the SON OF MAN.

     

    Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was in the whale’s belly three days and three nights:

    so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth

    THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS.

    John

    Matthew 17:23  And they shall kill him,

    and the THIRD DAY he shall rise again.

    And they were troubled exceedingly.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #943777
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Proclaimer,

    I have an issue with the new testament IF what Paul wrote isn’t in the old testament. I still haven’t found where the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind or where the innocent are responsible for the guilt of another. This basic premise is what the entire new testament is about. IF neither of these basic ideas are stated within the old the veracity of the new becomes questionable. Still waiting for the actual verse that states these ideas as related to the Messiah.

    Everyone keeps coming back to Isa 53 as proof, just as you did again, to claim Jesus is the Messiah; EXCEPT, when the passage is read completely and put into context, THERE IS NO JESUS! Everyone is cherry picking a phrase from verse 12 to make your belief work.

    You intentionally left the “because” out of your quote, why? By removed that conjunction you created an isolated thought (don’t care about the ellipses), a thought read on its own that can now be separated from the rest of what is being conveyed; “because” he did, he will receive and what is to be received isn’t “heavenly” in nature.

    The “he” in verse 12b is the same one being crushed and made ill in verse 10. It’s the same “he” who, if they make restitution, will receive a reward of seeing their children, having their days prolonged, and God’s purpose will prosper.

    Isa 53 cannot be used as proof of prophesying of Jesus; not because I say so, because the words of scripture say so!

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