The Ordinary Jesus Brigade

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  • #845407
     Jodi 
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    Hi Anthony,

    YOU: you don’t believe Jesus was sent to earth from heaven I think you know that Jesus went back to heaven,

    ME: 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

    Matthew 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

    John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

    Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him,Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles….6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    Hebrews 9:9 And being made perfect, he BECAME the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    Anthony go read through the gospels, see how Jesus was called their king, before he was actually their king, they called him their king because of prophecy. This is the SAME reason why the angel called Jesus the Christ, as he was their Christ according to prophecy. 

    Prophecy tells you about our king, about our Christ, it has nothing to do with a Son of God coming to earth, and everything to do with a Son of Man being born of God’s Spirit, God visiting a man, God resting His Spirit upon a man, God calling a man to righteousness, God giving that MAN over to die. 

    Jesus grew with God’s grace upon him, then you are directly told he WAS ANOINTED and SENT. The anointed Son of Man had come to save that which was lost. A pre-existing son was not sent. Where was he coming from? He was coming from God directly, directly from heaven being sent to not follow his own will but God’s will. 

    Anthony, all that Jesus did and said was through his anointing, not through him pre-existing, but through the fulfillment of God resting His Spirit upon him, calling him to righteousness to be a covenant.

    John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day….44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    APLLY scripture with scripture Anthony, you have a problem not putting 2 and 2 together, how you treat scripture is like telling me 2 and 2 equals 5, which is not true.

    The Father sent Jesus upon an anointing, resting his Spirit upon him to be a covenant, the Son of Man was SENT to save that which was lost, he was called to righteousness made perfect BECOMING our source for eternal salvation. When Jesus says I came down from heaven, he is not saying he pre-existed, he is saying he came from God to fulfill God’s will written for us by the prophets. Here is your 2 and 2 that equals the truth. Those prophecies equate to exactly what he says in John 6, as he is speaking of the covenant God had made. 

     

     

     

     

    #845408
     Jodi 
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    Anthony,

    YOU: You believe Jesus Christ at DNA from humans not God His Father’s.

    ME: What are earth are you talking about??

    Anthony, God is NOT made of DNA, DNA is of the earth, it’s made of the elements of the earth, in order to be a human your DNA equates to a specific code God created using the elements of the earth.

    The Holy Spirit came upon Mary to cause her to be pregnant fulfilling Isaiah’s prophecy, which that prophecy was all about God giving the house of David a sign that of the blood of David would there be a king over Jerusalem, one from the tribe of Ephraim would not rule.

    This child would know to choose the good over the evil according to prophecy, and we are told in the NT that the child would grow with God’s grace being upon him.

    You are told directly Anthony that he is of the sperma of Joseph, of David, of Abraham. You are told directly that the Messiah the anointed is to be a human, of the seed of David, of Abraham. You are told directly that God was going to beget on a certain day David’s son MAKING him into his own Son.

    You are told directly that the Son of God is a perfect man and that he is a Son of God according to the Holy Spirit. You are told directly that he is the last Adam (of the RED EARTH). You are told directly that God made every man from of one blood, and that we are the offspring of God, and Jesus is one of those men. 

    YOU: You go on with old testament which is good but can’t see progressive revelation and what the revelation of the new testament is and what it says. May the Father draw you to His Only Begotten Son and repeat and get born again and grow up in to a full grown woman of God the Lord Jesus Christ.

    ME: Anthony the progression of the NT doesn’t make the OT into LIES, the NT is all about showing the fulfillment of God’s OATH that He gave, fulfilling HIS WORD, so that we may know that He is true. There are new revelations but if you don’t apply God’s existing word from the OT to them you don’t have the truth.

    OT, God was going to send a Messiah, a man who He would anoint, a son of David He would beget with His Spirit, making him into His own Son.  To turn and then call the Son of God not according to this prophecy is falsehood, to say he is the Son of God for any other reason then the word of God directly given to you by the prophet David, is falsehood. 

    The Son of Man came to save that which was lost Anthony, this Son of Man was anointed at the river being called to righteousness to be a covenant for the people, God said, “THIS is my beloved Son“. Such is said fulfilling God’s words according to the prophets David and Isaiah.

    Put simple 2 and 2 together.

    The Son of Man came to save that which was lost.

    God would beget David’s son making him into His own Son.

    Jesus had the Spirit descend upon him and he was SENT out.

    For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son.

    Who is the only human to receive God’s Spirit without measure?

    WHEN are we told Jesus was SENT, and he was SENT because God rested His Spirit upon him, anointing him?

    John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved…34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 

    The Spirit rested upon him calling him to righteousness to be a covenant, the above is Jesus speaking of that prophecy, being the one to fulfill that covenant.

    There is no pre-existing Son coming down from heaven. There is prophecy fulfilled concerning David’s son, a man anointed begotten of God’s Spirit made a Son of God and he is sent out into the world. 

    The person who God SENDS in the above verse is the one who had the Spirit descend upon him like a dove Anthony, who received the Spirit without measure, and that is what equates him to be a Son of God.

    You don’t know what the Son of God means as it relates to Jesus, it means you are a man following God’s will perfectly, a MAN CALLED to righteousness, and you are able to do that because God has given you His Spirit without measure. Such is why we are told that the Son of God IS a perfect Man, ACCORDING to the Holy Spirit.

    We are joint heirs with Christ, because we too will be called to righteousness living perfectly following God’s will, as God will make us an heir of Him, as He did Jesus of Nazareth.

    As a mortal he is the only human born of God’s Spirit unto perfection. Such is why as when he was a mortal he is called God’s Only begotten Son. 

    What is he called NOW, after he rose from the dead and was given LIFE again Anthony?? 

    He is now the FIRSTBORN OF many brethren. 

    You don’t get the simple truth, man can do nothing of himself only God is good, Christ teaches us that humans of God’s creation need God’s Spirit dwelling in them. Without that Spirit we know not God like a serpent is ignorant of God, without that Spirit we would be dogs returning to our own vomit.

    The law taught us that we cannot even keep one letter of the law without God’s working Spirit in us, without God’s Spirit showing us the truth we turn to false gods, as we are left to our own imaginations to establish what we think is true. Without God’s Spirit working in us we lack self control, our weak flesh that has to feed itself in order to survive will turn to lying, cheating, stealing and even murder to serve that flesh, like a wild beast that has no concept of mercy. God’s Spirit gives our hearts the character of mercy, patience, love, understanding…etc..

    Paul speaks a lot about the law and Christ, the law taught us good from evil, but how to perform the good is not in us, we need God’s Spirit, we need to be anointed, to be an heir of God like Jesus.

    Jesus rendered all his works his goodness to HIS ANOINTING, to his receiving of God’s Spirit, not to him having pre-existed. Think about that Anthony. You have destroyed the very message of Christ.

    Your Christ equates to a one of a kind non flesh Son of God sent to earth.

    My Christ equates to a man born of God’s Spirit sent out into the world from heaven (directly from the will of God), for the purpose to show us that we cannot keep the law which is righteousness through ourselves, we must be called to righteousness with God resting His Spirit upon us to a measure that makes us perfect.

    God perfected Jesus, He perfected a man, and thus He can perfect all men by the same means, through His Spirit. This is the very reason WHY Jesus could pay the penalty for our sins. What would be the point of our sins being forgiven if it is not God’s plan to cause us to walk perfectly in His ways through His Spirit like he did with Jesus? The very reason why ONE man could pay the penalty for all sins is because that which God can do for one man, He can actually do the same for all men. This is the unity of our faith, that Jesus is a perfect man, to the measure and stature of an anointing. We are to have faith that we too are to be made perfect, being heir of God, receiving His Spirit that we can walk as Jesus walks. 

     

     

    #845410
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
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    Jodi,  isn’t it amazing they can’t even understand simple straight forward, clearly written,  scriptures,  they won’t even talk about them, they just ignore them,  and change the subject as if they are not even written  in their bibles. It is a true statement   “they have eyes to see but see not, ears to hear but hear not”.

    They say we always say the same things, over and over,  but they fail to realize , the truth dosen’t change so how can we say something different?

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    #845413
     Ed J 
    Participant
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    Jodi,

    They say we always say the same things, over and over, but they fail to realize,
    the truth dosen’t change so how can we say something different?

    Hi Gene,

    Are you looking in a mirror as you proclaim this?

    Because YOU always say the same things, over and over, but they fail to realize the truth

    #845440
     Jodi 
    Participant
    • Topics started 11
    • Total replies 1,848

    Hi Anthony,

    YOU:Let’s face it, Jesus as “God” has been around long before John the Baptist came into existence, and the spiritual name of Jesus was (and is) Emmanuel (“God with us”). So, the Word (Logos) came into the world and the world did not recognize Him (John 1:10). But John the Baptist finally became aware of who He was. He pointed Him out to the world and said that Jesus was a person who “is preferred before me: for he was before me” (John 1:15). Also, “for he was before me” (John 1:30). John the Baptist meant “before me IN TIME.”

    ME: God’s WORD came into the world indeed, God’s word was that one from the offspring of the tribe of Judah would be born as a sign to the house of David by a virgin birth so that they would know that God’s oath/His word is true.

    That oath from God, His word,

    12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

    This is NOT Jesus as God Anthony. This is Jesus as the offspring of David who you are directly told is the son of David.

    Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

    Mary will conceive a child whose father is David, and he shall be called the Son of the Highest. 

    He shall be called the Son of the Highest according to prophecy Anthony.

    Psalms 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel. 10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

    Psalms 8:3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

    God visits a man with His Spirit, God doesn’t come down and morph into a human.

    God’s word of a son of Jesse being anointed and sent, is God’s word (logos) being fulfilled coming into the world. 

    Jesus performs all signs and miracles, and speaks God’s word through having the Spirit without measure, doing all things according to not his own will but according to the will of God, that does not make Jesus the one true God Anthony, that makes God being with us through Jesus. 

    All your proofs of Jesus pre-existing can be shown as major error.

     

     

     

    #845455
     Anthony 
    Participant
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    Hi Jodi

    John 1:1, 14 (RSV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . . . [14] And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.

    This is one of the most well-known “proof texts”. Jesus is eternal (here, “beginning” means “eternity past”). He was with God the Father, and is God the Son. To make sure that the reader has no misunderstanding, John (5: 14) reiterates that the “Word” referred to is the Son, and notes that He “became flesh” (the incarnation). Only the Son has a physical body. The Word = Jesus = God.

    John 10:30 I and the Father are one.

    Jesus’ hearers, unbelieving Jews, certainly understood His intent in saying this, because they tried to stone Him, as the next verse informs us, since they didn’t believe His claim, which, if indeed untrue, would be intolerable blasphemy. 10:33 informs us that they tried to stone Him because (in their words) “you, being a man, make yourself God.”

    John 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

    This had to do with the famous “Doubting Thomas” incident. Thomas didn’t believe Jesus had risen, so Jesus appeared for His sake and told him to touch the wound in His side. Then Thomas believed and said this. If it were untrue, Jesus would have corrected him, but He didn’t; He commended Thomas because he “believed.”

    Colossians 1:19 For in him all the fulness of God was pleased to dwell,

    In context, it is the Son Who is being described (1:13); He is eternal (1:15, 17-18), the Creator (1:16), and the unifying principle of the universe (1:17; cf. Heb 1:3): all attributes true only of God. Paul makes the notion even more explicit in the next chapter:

    Colossians 2:9 For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily,

    2 Peter 1:1 . . . our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

    St. Paul uses the same phrase in Titus 2:13 as well.

    Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom.”

    This is a remarkable passage, in which God the Father calls His Son “God.” It is a reference to the Old Testament passage, Psalms 45:6-7.

    In Hebrews 1:6, God the Father also says that all the angels should worship God the Son. Worship can only be rightly applied to God, as we know from Exodus 34:14 and Deuteronomy 8:19. Yet Jesus accepted worship of Himself on many occasions (e.g., Mt 14:33; 28:9) and stated that He should be honored equally with the Father (Jn 5:23). In Revelation 5:8, 12-13 and Colossians 2:6-7, we find that Jesus is worshiped in every way that the Bible specifically describes worship of God the Father, with all the same words used (see: Rev 4:9-11, 5:13; 7:11-12, and Rom 11:33).

    Jesus is omnipotent (possesses all power):

    Philippians 3:20-21 . . . the Lord Jesus Christ, [21] who will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power which enables him even to subject all things to himself.

    He’s omniscient (all-knowing):

    Colossians 2:2-3 . . . Christ, [3] in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

    He’s omnipresent (present everywhere):

    Ephesians 1:22-23the church, [23] which is his body, the fulness of him who fills all in all. (cf. Col 3:11)

    Another astonishing passage along these lines is one where Jesus speaks about historical events described as being done by God the Father in the Old Testament. He casually applies them to Himself (what might be called “the Divine ‘I’”):

    Matthew 23: 34, 37Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, . . . [37] O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!

    Many attributes that are said to belong only to “God” are applied to Jesus in Scripture. God the Father said, “besides me there is no savior” (Is 43:11; cf. 1 Tim 4:10). Yet Jesus is called the “savior” of mankind in passages like Luke 2:11 and many others.

    God the Father stated, “To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear” (Is 45:23). The same exact description is also applied to Jesus (Phil 2:10-11).

    The Bible teaches that “God” is judge (1 Sam 2:10; Ps 50:6; Ecc 12:14; many others). But so is Jesus (Jn 5:22, 27; 9:39; Acts 10:42; 2 Tim 4:1). Therefore He is God.

    God the Father sits on His throne in heaven (1 Ki 22:19; Ps 11:4; 47:8). Jesus is on the same throne, too (Rev 7:17; 22:1, 3).

    At every turn in the Bible, only one conclusion is possible, to make sense of all these statements, taken together as a whole: Jesus is God the Son. He is the eternal, all-powerful, all-loving, self-existent Creator God.

    God bless

    #845456
     Anthony 
    Participant
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    Hi Jodi

    Is Jesus God? The answer to this question is the only real dispute surrounding the historical Jesus. No legitimate scholar today denies that Jesus is a historic figure that walked on this earth about 2,000 years ago, that he did remarkable wonders and acts of charity, and that He died a horrible death on a Roman cross just outside Jerusalem. The emotionally-charged dispute focuses specifically on whether Jesus was God incarnate who rose from the dead three days after His Crucifixion.

    Is Jesus God? The Only Alternatives
    Is Jesus God? Many people have dealt with this “spiritual” dispute by intellectually accepting Jesus as a great man, great teacher, or great prophet. However, Jesus and His inspired followers didn’t mince words when they declared Him to be God, see: (John 10:30-38, Matthew 16:13-17, Mark 14:61-64, John 14:6, Hebrews 1:8, Colossians 1:16, John 12:40-41 [quoting Isaiah 6:1-10]). Therefore, any type of intellectual compromise calling Jesus a “good man” is logically inconsistent. Why? Because there are really only three legitimate alternatives for the identity of Jesus Christ. He is either a liar, a lunatic or our Lord and God. Since Jesus claimed to be God, His claims are either true or false. If false, He must have been a liar, deliberately misleading the multitudes. Or, He was a lunatic, sincerely believing Himself to be God, when in reality He was just a man. However, if Jesus was a “good man,” as most people now agree, how then could He be both good and crazy, or good and a liar? There is only one logically consistent alternative – He must have been telling the truth. In addition to the logical inconsistency, the remarkable historical, archaeological and manuscript evidence shows that Jesus was neither a liar nor a lunatic. Again, the only position left is that His claim is true. Jesus is Lord and God.

    The only real argument that remains, is that Jesus was just a legend or myth. There is little likelihood that Jesus’ claims are legend. There just wasn’t enough time for any legendary development of the story to replace what really happened. For instance, we now know that the Gospels were written 30 to 50 years after the crucifixion of Jesus. More dramatically, we now date some of the early Christian creeds, proclaiming the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, to 3 to 10 years after His crucifixion. This includes Paul’s letters to the Corinthians, Romans and Galatians. Finally, if Jesus’ claim of deity was a myth, the early Jewish opponents of Christianity would surely have presented the fact that these claims never happened. Unlike modern skeptics, the Jewish rabbis never denied that Jesus made the claim that He was God. Instead, they called Him a liar, and tried Him for blasphemy.

    Is Jesus God? Once you have asked all your questions, weighed all the evidence, and tested all the arguments, you will ultimately be confronted with this question. Who do you say that He is?

    God bless

    #845457
     Anthony 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 960

    Hi Jodi

    Is Jesus God? The answer to this question is the only real dispute surrounding the historical Jesus. No legitimate scholar today denies that Jesus is a historic figure that walked on this earth about 2,000 years ago, that he did remarkable wonders and acts of charity, and that He died a horrible death on a Roman cross just outside Jerusalem. The emotionally-charged dispute focuses specifically on whether Jesus was God incarnate who rose from the dead three days after His Crucifixion.

    Is Jesus God? The Only Alternatives
    Is Jesus God? Many people have dealt with this “spiritual” dispute by intellectually accepting Jesus as a great man, great teacher, or great prophet. However, Jesus and His inspired followers didn’t look  mince words when they declared Him to be God, see: (John 10:30-38, Matthew 16:13-17, Mark 14:61-64, John 14:6, Hebrews 1:8, Colossians 1:16, John 12:40-41 [quoting Isaiah 6:1-10]). Therefore, any type of intellectual compromise calling Jesus a “good man” is logically inconsistent. Why? Because there are really only three legitimate alternatives for the identity of Jesus Christ. He is either a liar, a lunatic or our Lord and God. Since Jesus claimed to be God, His claims are either true or false. If false, He must have been a liar, deliberately misleading the multitudes. Or, He was a lunatic, sincerely believing Himself to be God, when in reality He was just a man. However, if Jesus was a “good man,” as most people now agree, how then could He be both good and crazy, or good and a liar? There is only one logically consistent alternative – He must have been telling the truth. In addition to the logical inconsistency, the remarkable historical, archaeological and manuscript evidence shows that Jesus was neither a liar nor a lunatic. Again, the only position left is that His claim is true. Jesus is Lord and God.

    The only real argument that remains, is that Jesus was just a legend or myth. There is little likelihood that Jesus’ claims are legend. There just wasn’t enough time for any legendary development of the story to replace what really happened. For instance, we now know that the Gospels were written 30 to 50 years after the crucifixion of Jesus. More dramatically, we now date some of the early Christian creeds, proclaiming the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, to 3 to 10 years after His crucifixion. This includes Paul’s letters to the Corinthians, Romans and Galatians. Finally, if Jesus’ claim of deity was a myth, the early Jewish opponents of Christianity would surely have presented the fact that these claims never happened. Unlike modern skeptics, the Jewish rabbis never denied that Jesus made the claim that He was God. Instead, they called Him a liar, and tried Him for blasphemy.

    Is Jesus God? Once you have asked all your questions, weighed all the evidence, and tested all the arguments, you will ultimately be confronted with this question. Who do you say that He is?

    God bless

    #845458
     Anthony 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
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    Hi Jodi

    Does the Bible, which is the earliest and most historically reliable source, actually say Jesus is God? What does it tell us about Jesus and His identity?

    Let’s take a brief look at a few of the many passages that clearly and consistently answer that question, straight from the pages of Scripture. We’ll begin by going back an additional 700 years before the life of Christ, to the Old Testament book of Isaiah.

    Jesus is God – Prophecies

    Divine Messiah predicted in the Old Testament
    Isaiah 7:14:“Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.”1

    “Immanuel” literally means: “God with us.” See also Matthew 1:23; Jesus was “God with us.”

    This Messiah would be born a human son, but have a higher nature
    Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”

    This was a radical statement coming from a monotheistic Jewish prophet — especially calling a human being “Mighty God”; but one that God fulfilled centuries later in Christ.

    A couple hundred years later, but still more than half a millennium before Jesus walked the earth, more was predicted about the Messiah’s divine nature
    Daniel 7:13-14: “There before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven . . . He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”

    “Son of Man” was the primary title Jesus used for Himself — and this passage shows that this was a clear and strong claim of deity. And in Mark, the earliest of the four Gospels, He also included the unmistakable phrase, “coming on the clouds of heaven” and applied it to Himself (Mark 14:62). His listeners got the point, refused to believe it, and added it to their reasons to try to kill Him.
    Jesus is God – His Earthly Ministry

    The baby Jesus worshiped by the Magi
    Matthew 2:11: “On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him.”

    Along with being led to the site where Jesus was born, these Magi were apparently informed by God about Jesus’ divine identity, and so they responded appropriately by worshiping Him.

    Jesus accepted worship from His disciples
    Matthew 14:32-33:“And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’”

    In a Jewish culture, only the one true God can be worshiped; their actions show that they acknowledged Jesus as being divine. And Jesus didn’t correct them or say, “Don’t you realize that I’m just a mortal prophet? Stop worshiping me!” Rather, He accepted their worship, knowing He really was God in human flesh.

    Jesus’ claim about Himself
    John 8:58-59: “‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.”

    This is a powerful double claim from Jesus: first, that He pre-existed His human birth and was actually alive and present (as God) before Abraham; second, that His title was “I am” — which was the same title used for Jehovah God in Exodus 3:14. His listeners again got the point, and picked up stones to execute Him!

    Another of Jesus’ claims of deity
    John 10:30-33: “‘I and the Father are one.’ Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, ‘I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?’ ‘We are not stoning you for any of these,’ replied the Jews, ‘but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.’”

    It couldn’t be clearer than it is here: Jesus’ highly educated listeners understood His claim of deity. They only had two possible responses: to humble themselves and bow before Him as the Magi and the disciples had done earlier, or reject His claim and judge Him as a blasphemer. Unfortunately they chose the latter option. But notice that Jesus doesn’t argue with their accusation, because it was accurate. He really was claiming to be God!

    Thomas’ response to the resurrected Jesus
    John 20:27-29: “Then He said to Thomas, ‘Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.’ Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’ Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.’”

    This disciple realized, because of Jesus’ resurrection, who Jesus really was — and humbly worshiped Him and declared His true identity: “My Lord and my God!” Jesus not only accepts this declaration, but blesses all of the disciples — and all of us today — who come to the same realization and place of humble worship.

    Stop doubting and believe!

    God bless

    #845460
     t8 
    Participant
    • Topics started 915
    • Total replies 19,211

    Is Jesus God?

    His name is the Word of God.

    Only his Father is the one true God.

    “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent,”.

    We either hold to what scripture is telling us, or we go down our own path of understanding.

    We are free to choose and this freedom makes us responsible for our choices.

    #845461
     Anthony 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 960

    Hi All

    Matthew 1:23 – “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

    Isaiah 9:6 – For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

    Isaiah 43:10,11 – “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
    Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 – (Jesus is the First and the Last)

    Isaiah 44:6 – (God is the Redeemer)
    2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) – “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”

    Isaiah 44:24 – (God created the world by Himself alone)
    John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 – (Jesus made all things)

    John 1:1-3 – In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made… 1:14 – And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

    John 5:17,18 – “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

    John 5:23 – that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

    John 8:24 – “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM [He], you will die in your sins.”

    John 8:58 – Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

    John 10:30-33 – Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

    John 14:6-7 – Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

    John 14:9-11 – Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?”

    John 20:28 – And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

    Acts 4:12 – “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

    Acts 20:28 – (God purchased us with His own blood)
    Revelation 1:5-6; Revelation 5:8-9 – (Jesus’ blood purchased us)

    Philippians 2:5-7 – Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

    Colossians 2:9 – For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

    1 Timothy 3:16 – And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

    Titus 2:13 – looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

    Hebrews 1:8-9 – But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

    2 John 1:7 – For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

    Revelation 1:8 – “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

    Revelation 22:13 – “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”… 22:16 – “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches.”

    1 Timothy 6:14-16 – “our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.”

    Hebrews 2:17-18 – “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.”
    Hebrews 4:15-16 – “For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
    1 Peter 2:24 – “who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we having died to sins, might live for righteousness – by whose stripes you were healed.”

    He went from sovereignty to shame and from deity to death? Why!? For you.
    John 15:13 – “Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.”
    Romans 5:8 – “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

    God bless

    #845462
     Anthony 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 960

    Hi Jodi

    The Father + The Only Begotten Son= One God

    Their a Family.

    Deuteronomy 6:4 says that there is only one God?
    First, we need to understand from the context what is meant with “one.” Christ said that the Father and He are ONE (John 10:30). Christ was not saying that the Father and He were one being. Rather, He addressed the concept of complete unity between the Father and Him. There was and always will be total harmony between the two members of the God Family. In fact, Christ won a legal argument with the Pharisees by proving that the Father and He, although “one,” were TWO beings (John 8:17–18).

    Christ prayed to the Father that His disciples should become “one” (John 17:20–23). He did not pray that they should all become one being, but that they should become totally unified. We also read that Adam and Eve were to become “one” flesh (Genesis 2:24). Again, they were not to become one being. We can learn from these examples that Christ’s disciples, or Adam and Eve, were to reach, or achieve, oneness in mindset, in purpose, and in action.

    Some claim that Scriptures like Deuteronomy 6:4 reject the concept that God is more than one being. However, this is not the case

    “Deuteronomy 6:4 reads: ‘Hear, O Israel, The LORD [‘Yahweh’] our God, the LORD [‘Yahweh’] is one!’ Many perceive that this Scripture teaches monotheism—that is, the existence of only one God. And indeed, it does. There is only one God. But… God is a Family, consisting of more than one being. Since God does not contradict Himself in His Word, what can we learn from Deuteronomy 6:4? ‘Yahweh’ is one being. The being who dealt directly with Israel was Jesus Christ. He was called ‘Yahweh’—He was and is one being. So, it is true that ‘Yahweh’—Jesus Christ—is one being.

    “In addition, ‘Yahweh’ refers to the Father as well—and the Father is, of course, also one being. Thirdly, since ‘Yahweh’ refers to both the Father and the Son, they are also ‘one’—one in purpose, goal,  mindset, willpower and determination. They are unified. There is no division in the God Family…

    “Further, many commentaries, including the Jewish Bible or Tanakh, feel that the passage in Deuteronomy 6:4 should be translated, ‘The LORD is our God, the LORD alone.’ This would make sense too, given the fact that both God the Father and Jesus Christ are referred to as ‘LORD’ or ‘Yahweh’ in Scripture. In this sense, the prohibition is against worshipping other gods. Deuteronomy 6:4 definitively DOES NOT teach that there is only one God being, as this would contradict all the other Scriptures in the Bible that establish a duality in the Godhead.”

    To elaborate, let us review several commentaries to see how they understand this passage, based on the original Hebrew. Bear in mind, however, that the commentaries that we will quote believe in the false concept of the Trinity—one God in three persons—whereas the Bible teaches that God is a Family, consisting of TWO persons, not three (The Holy Spirit is not a person, but the power of of God, emanating from the Father and the Son).

    Still, the following commentaries do understand that there is a PLURALITY in the Godhead and that Deuteronomy 6:4 actually teaches this plurality, rather than the concept that the God Family is just one BEING.

    For instance, the Jamieson, Fausset and Brown commentary states:

    “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord—or, as the words may perhaps be better translated, ‘Hear, O Israel: Jehovah [our comment: Yahweh is the better rendition of the Hebrew YHWH than Jehovah] is our God (Elohim, plural), Jehovah alone’… The basis of their religion was an acknowledgment of the UNITY of God… it is observable that a belief in the UNITY of God was a fundamental principle not of their faith only, but of their political constitution. The social fabric in all other contemporary nations rested upon the assumed truth of polytheism…”

    The New Unger’s Bible Handbook adds:

    “This is the most significant verse for orthodox Jews, who call it Shema after the first word, ‘Hear!’ ‘The Lord [YHWH] our God, the Lord is ONE,’ the one, ‘ehad,’ expressing COMPOUND UNITY not ‘yahid,’ meaning a single one,  [better, the duality in the Godhead]…”

    Clarke’s Commentary on the Bible states:

    “Hear, O Israel… shema Yisrael, Yehovah Eloheinu, Yehovah achad… Many think that Moses teaches in these words the doctrine of the Trinity [better: duality] in Unity. It may be so; but if so, it is not more clearly done than in the first verse of Genesis [where we read that God–“elohim” in Hebrew–created the heavens and the earth]… When this passage occurs in the Sabbath readings in the synagogue, the whole congregation repeat the last word… achad for several minutes together with the loudest vociferations… but all their skill… can never prove that there is not a plurality expressed in the word… Eloheinu, which is translated our God… it would apply more forcibly in the way of conviction to the Jews of the plurality of persons in the Godhead, than the word achad, of one… some Christians have joined the Jews against this doctrine, and some have even outdone them, and have put themselves to extraordinary pains to prove that… Elohim is a noun of the singular number! This has not yet been proved. It would be as easy to prove that there is no plural in language.”

    Gill’s Exposition of the Bible states:

    “These are the words of Moses, stirring up the people to an attention to what he was about to say of this great and momentous article, the UNITY of God, to prevent their going into polytheism and idolatry… they no ways [i.e., in no way] contradict the doctrine of a trinity [better: duality] of persons in the unity of the divine essence, the Father [and the] Word… which [two] are one; the one God, the one Jehovah, as here expressed…”

    Deuteronomy 6:4 does not teach that there is only one God BEING, as this would contradict the myriads of Scriptures proving the opposite. Rather, Jesus Christ, the God of the Old Testament, in expressing the direct mandate from God the Father, warned the Israelites not to practice idolatry and polytheism, but to recognize and worship the one true God who led them out of the land of Egypt (compare Exodus 20:2-3). It is true that at that time, most Israelites did not even understand that God is a Family, and they falsely believed that Jesus—the God being dealing directly with them–was God the Father. Jesus came later to reveal the existence of the Father to them (Matthew 11:27; compare also John 1:18; 5:37; 6:46).

    One might ask, why would God the Father have allowed the Israelites to worship and pray to the Word, Jesus Christ, erroneously thinking that they were worshipping God the Father? This was all part of God’s great plan. When Adam and Eve sinned, they cut themselves off (and man in general) from God the Father. It would be Jesus Christ who was to deal directly with the ancients and the nation of Israel in Old Testament times. Though some of the ancients understood that God is a Family, consisting of the Father and the Son, most did not. But even those who understood dealt directly with Christ—as mentioned above, none of them has ever heard the voice of the Father or has seen His form. However, there is, always has been, and always will be complete love, unity and harmony within the Godhead, and God the Father was in no way “jealous” of His Son, when Israel worshipped Christ instead of Him.

    Christ came to this earth to teach very clearly that His disciples are to worship God the FATHER in spirit and in truth, and that they are to pray to Him, but they are told to do so in Christ’s name. Christ made it clear that the Father is the highest Personage within the God Family. Again, there is no jealousy within the God Family, and Christ is most certainly not jealous of the Father that it had to be revealed that He, rather than Christ, must be prayed to. Christ will always recognize His Father as the Highest, but remember, God is one. The members of the God Family live without any jealousy towards each other. They live in love, harmony and complete unity with each other.

    Deuteronomy 6:4 does not negate the existence of two beings within the God Family, but it emphasizes the UNITY of the true God. It also includes the timeless prohibition against a belief in polytheism (consisting many times of pagan gods fighting each other) and against the worship of other gods beside or instead of the one true God (Family).

    God bless

    #845464
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 44
    • Total replies 16,910

    Anthony……Are you not also one of those decievers yourself?, you have stated, Jesus is God, Scripture says,”God is not a man, that he should lie,”nor” a son of man, that he should repent.  So, you are denying Jesus came in the flesh , by saying he was and is a God.  Jesus clearly said over over, and over, he was a “son” of man, but scripture says God is not a man,  seems you have a delima on you hands,  Jesus even said when he returns he will come as a “son of man” , you are miliening our scriptures and twisting what they clearly say. 

    Jesus can not be both a “son of man” and a God,  why? Because as I quoted scripture says God is “NOT” a man.

    Num 23:19….God is not a man, that he should lie, neither is he (God) a son of man, that he should repent:

    So I press you to tell us clearly was Jesus a “man, a “son of man” or a God”  , he can’t be both. 

    Then please tell us what the scripture T8 and Jodi, and I have quoted to you over, I will do it again just so you can’t skirt around is, so then tell us what does this mean to you.

    Jesus himself said,  “that they might know “you”, the “Only” true God,  and Jesus Christ who you have sent.

    Now please look at the specific word “Only” means to you ?  Does that not mean there is no other. So if there is no other “TRUE” GOD, other then the GOD Jesus was speaking  to. How do you come here and tell us Jesus himself is another God .

    Or haven’t you ever read this or perhaps you through it out of your bible.

    1 Ti 2:5…. For there is “One” God, and “one” mediator between God and men, the “MAN” Christ Jesus.  

    How do you reconcile those scriptures with your teachings please tell us we would all like to hear your reason.

    ANTHONY, you have been completely indoctrinated into false teachings of modern christanity.  Forcing texts to say what they in fact do not specifically say or imply to support you false teachings.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

     

     

     

    #845465
     Jodi 
    Participant
    • Topics started 11
    • Total replies 1,848

    Hi t8,

    YOU:

    Is Jesus God?
    His name is the Word of God.

    Only his Father is the one true God.

    “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent,”.

    We either hold to what scripture is telling us, or we go down our own path of understanding.

    We are free to choose and this freedom makes us responsible for our choices.

    ME: What is the CONTEXT of Revelation 19? A TRUTHFUL understanding to part of a verse comes through apply all the other truth given from other scriptures, and of course one is speaking falsehood if they don’t even apply the surrounding context to the passage.

    t8, why are you not applying Isaiah 11 with Revelation 19? 

    God had said, giving His word that was of His will to take place in the future, to Isaiah,

    Isaiah 11:2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

    The book of Revelation begins with, “1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:”

    God gives a revelation, a prophecy established by His words that expresses His will, to John. This revelation from God reveals what God is going to do through Jesus Christ.  Jesus is the one fulfilling God’s word, Jesus makes God’s word come true.

    God’s prophecy given to Isaiah, His word that expresses His will that cannot be held back, is also given in Revelation,

    Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

    Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

    Jesus is called Faithful and True, as he was called to righteousness having God’s Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of the LORD rest upon him. He judges not by his own will, not with his own eyes and ears, but through God’s righteousness does he judge and make war. He can do nothing of himself, he is taught and led by God, God is with him so that the works of Jesus’s are not his works but are the works according to the will of God which was given to man prior by God’s own word.

    IN Jesus God’s word is fulfilled, such is why the one dipped in blood, the anointed by God according to God’s word, is called the word of God.  God’s word becomes true IN Jesus by Jesus being the offspring of Jesse who is called to righteousness with God’s Spirit resting upon him.

    God’s word becomes true through Jesus, when Jesus judges and makes war with the world through being fully led by our righteous God. 

    This God is Jesus’s God and Father and is my God and Father.

    John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her,Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

    This is eternal life as well t8,

    11 For the Son of Man is come to save that which was lost.

    This would be the Son of man of David and Isaiah’s prophecy, the man who God was mindful of and visits with His Spirit where He has called him to righteousness, holding his hand and keeping him to be a covenant for the people a light to the Gentiles. That covenant brings us our eternal life.

    John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

    God sealed a Son of Man by anointing him with His Spirit. He sealed him by resting His righteousness upon Him filling him with grace and truth.

    Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    t8,

    OBEY the anointed Son of Man made perfect, for the Spirit of God is upon him, he is sent where he will judge all men through the Spirit of Council and Might, Wisdom, Understanding that rests upon him, where he will not judge by his own eyes and ears, but through God.

    #845468
     Anthony 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 960

    Hi Gene

    Hear!’ ‘The Lord [YHWH] our God, the Lord is ONE,’ the one, ‘ehad,’ expressing COMPOUND UNITY not ‘yahid,’ meaning a single one.

    You said: tell me what only means to you?

    Me: only is one here.

     

    Deuteronomy 6:4 says that there is only one God?
    First, we need to understand from the context what is meant with “one.” Christ said that the Father and He are ONE (John 10:30). Christ was not saying that the Father and He were one being. Rather, He addressed the concept of complete unity between the Father and Him. There was and always will be total harmony between the two members of the God Family. In fact, Christ won a legal argument with the Pharisees by proving that the Father and He, although “one,” were TWO beings (John 8:17–18).

    Christ prayed to the Father that His disciples should become “one” (John 17:20–23). He did not pray that they should all become one being, but that they should become totally unified. We also read that Adam and Eve were to become “one” flesh (Genesis 2:24). Again, they were not to become one being. We can learn from these examples that Christ’s disciples, or Adam and Eve, were to reach, or achieve, oneness in mindset, in purpose, and in action.

    Some claim that Scriptures like Deuteronomy 6:4 reject the concept that God is more than one being. However, this is not the case

    “Deuteronomy 6:4 reads: ‘Hear, O Israel, The LORD [‘Yahweh’] our God, the LORD [‘Yahweh’] is one!’ Many perceive that this Scripture teaches monotheism—that is, the existence of only one God. And indeed, it does. There is only one God. But… God is a Family, consisting of more than one being. Since God does not contradict Himself in His Word, what can we learn from Deuteronomy 6:4? ‘Yahweh’ is one being. The being who dealt directly with Israel was Jesus Christ. He was called ‘Yahweh’—He was and is one being. So, it is true that ‘Yahweh’—Jesus Christ—is one being.

    “In addition, ‘Yahweh’ refers to the Father as well—and the Father is, of course, also one being. Thirdly, since ‘Yahweh’ refers to both the Father and the Son, they are also ‘one’—one in purpose, goal,  mindset, willpower and determination. They are unified. There is no division in the God Family…

    This is the most significant verse for orthodox Jews, who call it Shema after the first word, ‘Hear!’ ‘The Lord [YHWH] our God, the Lord is ONE,’ the one, ‘ehad,’ expressing COMPOUND UNITY not ‘yahid,’ meaning a single one,  [better, the duality in the Godhead]…

     

    #845482
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 44
    • Total replies 16,910

    Anthony…..Again you switch and bate, “Only” one true God,  has “nothing” to do with being at one with God or anyone else for that matter, it just means,  “being in agreement with” nothing more nothing less. It’s just another twist you apply to scriptures to force the text to say what in fact it does not truly say.  Jesus was in total “agreement” with  God the Father and therefore they “acted as one”, in what they were saying and doing.

    Taking us through you long trail of deception to destort that “simple” scripture, which anyone can understand just as it is written , only shows how really “deceitful”,  you people are. IMO

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

     

     

    #845485
     Jodi 
    Participant
    • Topics started 11
    • Total replies 1,848

    Anthony, t8, and ALL,

    Please discuss these passages,

    2 Peter 1: 16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we MADE KNOWN unto you the power and COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, WHEN there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Matthew 3: 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    The coming of our Lord Jesus The Anointed occurred upon the baptism of Jesus, when the Spirit descended like a dove upon him and God said, “THIS is my beloved Son”. Jesus received at that moment glory and honor from God and was sent out being led by the Spirit to perform God’s will. “Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God”. You are a Son of God when you follow God’s will, Jesus was anointed called to righteousness, such was him being born of the Spirit so that he had the power in him to follow God’s will and not his own. David’s son being begotten by God made into God’s own Son. 

    The COMING of the Messiah is according to prophecy, that coming according to prophecy IS NOT according to an anointed one coming down from heaven and being morphed into a zygote. The coming of the Messiah is according to a human servant being anointed with God’s Spirit and then being sent out into the world. 

    Peter tells you directly WHEN the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ occurred. This matches perfectly with Jesus’s own words in Luke 4, and with the words given to us in Acts 10, Jesus was anointed by God at the Jordan. 

    Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,…14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.

     

    #845487
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 8
    • Total replies 1,118

    Hi JODI,

    You:

    2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we MADE KNOWN unto you the power and COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, WHEN there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Me:

    1 John 1:1 That WHICH WAS FROM THE BEGINNING, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

    John 1:1 In the BEGINNING was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the BEGINNING with God.

    2 Peter 1:16 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the SACRED MOUNTAIN.

    Me: This is NOT the RIVER JORDAN. Read the context.

    Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an HIGH MOUNTAIN apart, 2 And was TRANSFIGURED before them: and his face did SHINE AS THE SUN, and his raiment was white as the light…5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

    Me: The rest of it I have explained and showed you the scriptures where the Messiah was born with the holy spirit in him.

    #845488
     GeneBalthrop 
    Participant
    • Topics started 44
    • Total replies 16,910

    Anthony…..let me put it in a real simple terms for you,  in the beginning (of creation) was  GOD  (who is spirit, as well as his words that comes from him) . ACCORDING TO JESUS. Jesus told us “the words he was telling us were “not” his words,  but the words of him who sent him, and they were Spirit and life. Jesus was quoting God the Fathers words to us, none of that made himself the word or a God. 

    Gen 1:1…..In the beginning  “GOD” created the heaven and the earth.

    Gen 1:2….and the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

    Gen 1:3….and “God” said, let there be light: and there was light.

    Gen 1:5….and “God” said, let there be a firmament, …..

    Gen 1:9….and “God” said,…. 

    Gen 1:11..and “God” said,….

    Tell us Anthony  do you see in any of that written, “the man Jesus said? 

    Heres what Jesus said, hear O Israel the LORD “our” God, is one LORD. Not two or three Lord’s  beings, mingled together into one being called God.  Did you notice the word “our God” there, Jesus was saying the LORD “his God” was one LORD, the same GOD as ours. When Jesus said I am going to my God and Your God, my Father and Your father , he was not talking about himself, anyone should be able to understand that.  You make it out that Jesus was going to himself, nothing but a pure lie. Jesus is not YAHWEH,  never was or never will be.

    When John said in the beginning, the word was with God (a Spirit) and was God .  He is SAYING , God and his word are the same “being”. God is not divided into various parts of different people or beings as you false preach. Jesus was no more a God then you or I am. I KNOW I AM NOT a God, how about you? Jesus, is not Yahweh,  nor ever was, thats just you again trying  to force scriptures to say what in fact no where is said.

    Your not teaching the truth, your teaching the same false religion that nearly all Christendom teaches, and those who follow you will end up in the same rut your in, wake up repent Anthony, wash you eyes with the ointment God provides, “the spirit of truth”.  

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene

     

     

     

    #845492
     Jodi 
    Participant
    • Topics started 11
    • Total replies 1,848

    TC,

    You left out,

    Matthew 3:15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented. 16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

    So it is you who are denying the context. God repeated what he said PRIOR at the river Jordan saying it AGAIN on the mountain. “This is my Son”, God is speaking in BOTH instances of His anointed one, the one anointed specifically being called to righteousness to be a covenant, being called to preach the Gospel of Peace and to fulfill that Gospel of peace. which is by God perfecting him and then giving him over to DEATH. 

    Matthew 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the VISION to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

    Acts 13:33 he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm: “ ‘You are my son; today I have become your father.’ 34 God raised him from the dead so that he will never be subject to decay. As God has said, “ ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’

    The anointed Jesus called to righteousness to be a covenant for us, having the Spirit descend upon him like a dove at the river Jordan, DIED. He was DEAD, God raised him to LIFE giving him eternal life, MAKING him a Son for eternity. Upon the resurrection of Jesus, Jesus was raised in glory, raised in power, raised incorruptible, raised an eternal Son.

    God had a Son, he WAS MORTAL and then he gave that Son over to DEATH. God brought His Son back to life, MAKING him a Son once more and giving him eternal life so that he would forever be His Son.  

    Read again,

    2 Peter 1: 16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we MADE KNOWN unto you the power and COMING of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, WHEN there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    NOW read,

    Acts 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ:(he is Lord of all:) 37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and BEGAN from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good.

    Jesus of NAZARETH, a MAN, was anointed with the Holy Ghost and sent out to preach God’s word. Jesus BECAME the Christ, the anointed and was sent to preach God’s word, that WORD of peace was eternal salvation, which that WORD was in the beginning WITH God and IN that word was “he”, he was in the beginning IN that WORD. Even if you don’t want to apply this fact to certain passages, all the same it is still true.

    Jesus of Nazareth, prophesied to be CALLED to righteousness through the Spirit resting upon him, had went to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness. Is that just a coincidence to you TC?? Is it also just a coincidence that the word “Christ” means anointed and we read that Jesus of Nazareth is anointed and sent?

    1 John 1:1 That WHICH WAS FROM THE BEGINNING, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

    You just read in Acts 10, unless you just want to ignore that scripture, that God sent His word preaching peace, our salvation through Jesus, Jesus of Nazareth was anointed to be able to do so, made the Christ to be sent out to preach God’s Gospel, exactly what Jesus said in Luke 4, and in John 3 we read, “34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.”

    The beginning here is when Jesus was sent preaching God’s word of life, that you are told BEGAN in Galilee, you are told that is WHEN Christ the lord had come. Jesus of Nazareth after being anointed reveals that he would die for our sins, of which we read God makes him perfected to become our source for eternal salvation. WHY would you NOT APPLY these teachings TC?? .

    That beginning is Galilee the time when Jesus was SENT out into the world and BEGAN preaching the Gospel of God, as he was full of grace and truth having the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding upon him. Just before Galilee after having been anointed he is sent out into the wilderness, Jesus says when he is tempted, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” 

    Jesus was that MAN who was not going to live by bread alone but live by God’s word. He was called to righteousness to live by God’s word, filled with the Spirit to be led to follow God’s word. He does not follow his own will but that of God’s according to God’s word. 

    TC, The WORD of Life, is that we have unity of faith believing that Jesus is the Son of God according to being a perfect man, that is the WORD of Life.

    We believe that Jesus is an heir of God and that we are joint heirs with Jesus the anointed one being also an heir of God. You want to tell me what I just said is a LIE, it is all direct scripture.

    TC we have LIFE through the death of a man made perfect and by believing that God too can make us perfect. This was God’s plan IN His WORD before the earth was made, that is a FACT.

    All things and the Word of Life, are in Jesus of Nazareth because God was mindful of a man, visiting him, making him perfect becoming our source for eternal salvation. When God created the world He did it through this, through this plan that involved this man. In the perfected man we have eternal life, all things before the world was made was made by God through him. 

    Jesus speaks the Word of Life, REMEMBER TC, how Jesus said the Spirit was upon him, he was anointed to be sent to preach God’s word? Do you forget? Remember he said man shall LIVE by the word of God.

    Jesus speaks God’s Gospel of peace, that which he was anointed and sent to do, telling his disciples what must shortly take place concerning him, he speaks of his death and then he is OBEDIENT to God, following the word of God that was given to him to preach, he fulfills it.

     

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