The Ordinary Jesus Brigade

[Ed J]

So EDj…..do you believe he was “a man”, or do you believe he was something else, from another existence other then a man? That seperates him from being just a “MAN” Yes or no please.

Hi Gene,

That question is convoluted. And besides it is my turn to ask you a question

[Jodi]

Hi T8,

YOU:

This much is true, after the baptism John preached, God ANOINTED Jesus of Nazareth and by such he could be called THE ANOINTED (the Christos) Christ. 

But you cannot answer these two points.

1. Jesus was called the Christ at birth.
2. Jesus is not the only person in history to receive the Holy Spirit or be anointed. So why aren’t they the Christ if that is the only requirement for being Christ.

ME: Yes we have numerous times and all I see is you denying what is simple truth. The infant was the person of prophecy, and he was being spoken as such. He was called a savior at his birth as well as the Christ the master.  Was he a savior at his birth, or a master over anyone? NO, he had to grow and learn, he had to have the Spirit descend upon him and be SENT out into the world, he had to deny temptation, He had to be perfected learning obedience, and then having been perfected he could be our savior through his death. He was called a savior at his birth, because he was the person to fulfill prophecy.

t8, we have Isaiah 53 which was written LONG before the birth of Jesus, about a man being wounded for our transgressions, being mankind’s savior. Then we have an angel declare a savior has been born, and then we have this infant grow up and fulfill Isaiah 53 becoming our savior through his death, but you want to say the angel spoke of the child as a savior not because of Isaiah 53, he said it because of another reason. I am in error because I speak from the OBVIOUS of the facts of scriptures.

Likewise we have Isaiah 11, 42, and 61 speaking of a man receiving an anointing of God’s Spirit, and then we see an infant grow up to be a man and have the Spirit of God descends upon him and thereafter he declares that he has been anointed according to the fulfillment of Isaiah by his own words, BUT according to you the angel was speaking of him when he was an infant NOT as The Anointed according to prophecy.

t8, JESUS was the ONLY human to receive the Spirit WITHOUT measure, he is the only Son of Man said to have BECOME the source of eternal salvation through having been perfected. Jesus was the ONLY MAN where the Spirit is said to have descended upon him like a dove and at that moment God said, “This is my beloved Son.”

“THIS” OF COURSE is speaking directly OF the Son of Man of the SEED of DAVID who had the Spirit descend upon him. 

[Proclaimer]

T8….. Do you truly believe JESUS was ” from” the root and really was an offspring of King David?  Yes or no please.

Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

Yes.

I am open to other opinions of course.

Is he the offspring? Yes.

Is he the root? Why not yes too?

[Proclaimer]

ME: Yes we have numerous times and all I see is you denying what is simple truth. The infant was the person of prophecy, and he was being spoken as such. He was called a savior at his birth as well as the Christ the master.  Was he a savior at his birth, or a master over anyone? NO, he had to grow and learn, he had to have the Spirit descend upon him and be SENT out into the world, he had to deny temptation, He had to be perfected learning obedience, and then having been perfected he could be our savior through his death. He was called a savior at his birth, because he was the person to fulfill prophecy.

Let me boil this down for you. What you are saying is Jesus was not the Christ.

[Anthony]

Hi Gene

you said: T8….. Do you truly believe JESUS was ” from” the root and really was an offspring of King David? Yes or no please.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

Me: Jesus Christ had no biological connection what so ever with David, Adam or any human. Jesus Christ had a legal standing with Jewish law through Joseph his step- father which would be a legal connection only to David.

God bless

[Jodi]

Hi Anthony,

These passages speak against your understanding of Jesus not being biologically connected to David.

30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

offspring —genos kindred, offspring

JESUS IS of the KIND of David, he is his OFFSPRING.

12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

51 He is the tower of salvation for his king: and sheweth mercy to his anointed, unto David, and to his seed for evermore.

33 Their blood shall therefore return upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever: but upon David, and upon his seed, and upon his house, and upon his throne, shall there be peace for ever from the LORD.

39 And I will for this afflict the seed of David, but not for ever.

50 Great deliverance giveth he to his king; and sheweth mercy to his anointed, to David, and to his seed for evermore.

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

SEED– sperma

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Anthony, ALL these passages tell you that Jesus is OF the people of Judah, that he is of the very genes of David.

Putting aside your flat out denial of multiple scriptures, you still have a problem that has nothing to do with legal standing.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Jesus is a descendant of Abraham. Jesus is of the SPERMA of ABRAHAM

Please explain yourself as you seem to be making God into an out right liar when it comes to both promises He gave to Abraham and David regarding their SEED, their DNA. 

[Jodi]

Hi Anthony,

To continue,

Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

God had promised both Abraham and David that of their SEED -SPERMA would come the Christ, The Anointed.

GENERATION here is GENESIS, SOURCE, ORIGIN, PROGENY.

When you go down this line of lineage continuing in Matthew, we are given that Jesus is in FACT the PROGENY of Joseph who was betrothed to Mary.

16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

generations –MEN of the SAME STOCK

As we are told in Isaiah 7, the prophecy of a virgin birth was for a SIGN to the house of David letting them know that God’s PROMISES still stands, of which was ONE of the SEED of David would be a ruler over Israel.

Through the power of God’s Spirit according to a PROMISE given to the house of David, a Son of David of the fruit of his loins, would be born through a virgin birth.

Come on Anthony it is given plainly to you from the passages I gave in my last post, we are directly told Jesus is of the DNA of both David and Abraham.

The ANGEL SAYS in Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Then the ANGEL SAYS in Luke 2:10 , “And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.”

The angel speaks of the infant according to God’s PROMISE to be fulfilled by the SEED of Abraham where in his seed all nations would be blessed. Concerning the infant the angel had said,He SHALL BE great, he SHALL BE called the Son of the Highest,  and God will give him the throne of his father David. 

Apply these passage Anthony,

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The infant Jesus was NOT perfect, he had to be MADE perfect in order to BECOME our savior.

The angel did not speak of the infant as a savior because of what he was at that moment, but because of what he was to be MADE INTO, a perfected man.

NOW the question I guess still remains, was the infant BORN with that which would bring him into his perfection, or was the infant to later acquire that which would bring him into his perfection?

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them. 

Luke 4:1 And Jesus BEING FULL of the Holy Ghost RETURNED FROM Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, …14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. 16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book..

The Spirit descended upon Jesus like a dove and God said “THIS is my beloved Son”, then BEING FULL of the Spirit and in Power of the Spirit Jesus went out to teach being glorified by all and fame went out of him. He goes into Nazareth and reads prophecy concerning him, saying that God’s Spirit is upon him BECAUSE he has been ANOINTED. . According to the prophecy that anointing, which occurred at the Jordan, was a call of righteousness, where God will hold his hand and keep him for a covenant for the people.

Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Anthony, according to Isaiah the one that the LORD calls into righteousness where God will hold his hand and keep him for a covenant, is one from among the people, a person of whom God gives the breath of life to, the God who created heaven and earth and man with a spirit to walk therein. God places His Spirit upon a man of the SEED of Abraham of the SEED of David, which is CALLED an ANOINTING, and by that Spirit resting upon him, he is brought into perfection, he is made perfect through remaining obedient, and thus BECOMES the source for our eternal life through taking away our sins.

Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD SHALL rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

God the Creator of heaven and earth who gives life to the people and a spirit to walk therein, PROMISED that of the people, one elected of the stock of Judah, of the SEED of Abraham and David, a stem of Jesse, would be great, he would be called the Son of the Highest, he would have the Spirit descend upon him like a dove being made full of the Spirit with power, being CALLED to righteousness where God would hold his hand and KEEP him so that he could be a covenant for the people, being MADE perfect learning obedience through suffering withstanding by the strength of God’s Spirit that had been placed upon him at the river Jordan. 

The angel of God spoke concerning the infant Jesus according to what he would become that was according to God’s promises. The angel spoke of the infant as the SEED of Abraham who all nations would be blessed through by receiving the Spirit of God according to the prophet Isaiah, directly said to be an anointing.

Neither the angel nor Jesus himself spoke of Jesus being the Christ, The Anointed, for any other reason other than God’s clear word spoken to the prophet Isaiah.

 

 

[GeneBalthrop]

Anthony,  ..Jodi is 100% right on this,  turn away from all those other false teachings, you have been told and take hold of the truth being offered you brother.

Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

[Anthony]

Hi Gene

You said:

T8…..yes,  I believe he became the Christo’s of God when he recieved his anointing of the Holy Spirit at the Jordan river, just as scripture clearly shows.

I hope that is clear enough fo you to understand.

Me: That would be a NO Gene. You don’t believe Jesus Christ was the Messiah at birth the Christ

A BIG fat 0

You talk like a politician.

God bless

[Anthony]

Hi Jodi

This may help

If one looks closely at the biblical teaching, it is seen that the bearing of the world’s sins by Christ Jesus was something accomplished in Him from His birth — from the time He began to grow as a tender plant and as a shoot out of the dry ground (Isaiah 53:2).
Christ’s Conception
One point must be understood about the conception of Christ. When the Father caused His conception to occur in the womb of Mary (John 1:14) And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. , it was not Mary’s physical ovum that was engendered to cause Christ to become “flesh.” 14 Christ became the seed of Mary (the woman of prophecy) by means of a heavenly-created ovum placed in Mary’s womb, which was then impregnated by the Spirit. Everything about Christ’s conception was spiritual and had nothing to do with the uniting of a human sperm with a human ovum.
The ovum impregnated by the Spirit was not from Mary’s ovum. Mary was actually a surrogate mother to Christ Jesus and neither her ovum nor Joseph’s sperm created Him. The fetus that grew in Mary’s womb was NOT a descendant of Adam and Eve (it would have inherited sin), but from a sinless God in heaven.
Likewise, that fetus of Jesus was sinless, as God in heaven is sinless. The fetus of itself was NOT YET Christ Jesus bearing the sins of the world because that fetus did NOT have sins on it. But as soon as that fetus became a living human being at its birth, a “living soul” breathing air into its lungs, that baby then had all the sins of the world placed on His back.
This means that Christ did not inherit any of Adam’s sins, but He came directly from heaven; the sperm and ovum that created Christ were heavenly in origin, not from Adam or Eve or Joseph or Mary. True, as surrogate parents, Christ was legally Joseph’s and Mary’s son (as far as the world was concerned and as far as prophetic matters require), but His origin was totally heavenly. He came from heaven where He had been for the previous eons reigning with the Father (Philippians 2:6–11). 5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.The fact that Christ was considered Joseph’s and Mary’s child (or being David’s progeny) was a legal recognition by God. However, even God’s legal acceptance is a true recognition of Christ’s descent from David.
Christ’s Genealogy
In fact, both genealogical tables of Christ given in the New Testament are those of Joseph, the husband of Mary. It is usually assumed, without proof, that Luke’s genealogy is that of Mary. In no way is this so.
The New Testament states in clear terms that both genealogies are those of Joseph and that is how they should be accepted. But how can this be? Can Joseph have had two fathers? Yes, indeed. Since the genealogy given by Matthew was only a LEGAL genealogy, 5 it can be seen that this genealogy is maintained only by the rule of adoption — not by actual birth. The truth is, Salathiel of Matthew 1:12 After the deportation to Babylon: Jeconiah became the father of Shealtiel, and Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel  was the adopted son of Jechonias. So likewise, Joseph must have been the adopted son of the Jacob mentioned in Matthew 1:16. 16 Jacob was the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, by whom Jesus was born, who is called the Messiah.
On the other hand, Luke’s genealogy is the actual physical descent of Joseph. In no way does Mary figure in either of the two genealogical lists. Mary is portrayed in the New Testament as having a Levitical blood line (even that from Aaron) because Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist (who was clearly a priest) was a kinsperson to Mary (Luke 1:36). And behold, even your relative Elizabeth has also conceived a son in her old age; and she who was called barren is now in her sixth month. In spite of this Levitical connection, Christ Jesus was reckoned legally to be from Judah (Hebrews 7:14)  For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. Through His legal father Joseph. Of course, all these matters are legal ones. Nonetheless, God looks on them as extremely important and they represent spiritual factors in the salvation plan of God and cannot be taken lightly.
Let us now look once more at the birth of Christ that took place in Bethlehem. When that birth (not conception) occurred, He at that moment began to bear the sins of mankind. It was only for legal purposes that Christ was “made to be sin” for all mankind throughout His life. The culmination of His role as our legal sin-bearer was performed when He died on the tree of crucifixion. As it says in Isaiah 53,
Christ was sent to “bear their iniquities” (verse 11);

that “the chastisement of our peace was upon him” (verse 5); and

“the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all” (verse 6).

His role as sin-bearer lasted from His birth in Bethlehem to His death at Jerusalem. Christ was the one “who gave himself for our sins” (Galatians 1:4). Or, as Peter put it, Christ “bore our sins in his own body on the Cross” (1 Peter 2:24).
All these scriptures exemplify the doctrine of Imputation. Just as the ancient Israelite took a goat, laid his hands on its head and transferred (or imputed) his sins to the goat, then killed it in place of himself, so Christ accepted on His head all the sins of the world and died for you, me and all. This is an essential doctrine of the New Testament and the foundational teaching of Christianity.
One thing, however, must be made clear. The placing of the world’s sins on the head of Christ was only a legal placement. Let me explain. Christ was of Himself born into this world sinless and lived a sinless life on earth (1 Peter 2:22)21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, 22 who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth;  It has not been understood by many, but since Christ Jesus was indeed “God,” and He was the “Logos” (who was “God), it was impossible for Jesus to actually sin no matter what He did or did not do. This was true because God sets all rules and He can do what He pleases in heaven or earth without anyone calling Him to the bar of judgment.
Understand this point carefully: Jesus was reckoned sinless by the apostles not because of what He did or did not do in the flesh, but because of who He was! And because He was indeed “God in the flesh,” it was impossible for humans ever to reckon the slightest sin in Him. Of course, Christ was morally and ethically upright in all things He did, but His sinlessness must always be evaluated by who He was, NOT because of what He did or did not do!
Let us look at this matter more closely. If Christ was “God”   and his name was Immanuel, “God With Us” (Isaiah 7:14),Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel. (Isaiah 8:8)
“Then it will sweep on into Judah, it will overflow and pass through,
It will reach even to the neck;
And the spread of its wings will fill the breadth of your land, O Immanuel. (Matthew 1:23) “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us.”  Showing that He indeed was “God” — then it was impossible for God to sin.
Can any of us attribute any kind of sin to God even if He kills millions of human beings in a Flood like that of Noah? Or if He kills millions of people in the future as the Book of Revelation shows He will do? It would be effrontery and insubordination at the highest level even to think such a thought, let alone accuse God of sin for any actions that He does on earth or in the heavens (Romans 9:11–25). Let’s face it, God cannot sin. He makes up all the laws, and He can keep them as He pleases o11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another [m]for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 2r violate them as He chooses and never sin once.
In another way of reckoning it, Christ was given a sinlessness by His Father THROUGH GRACE, not by any works He did or did not do and this sinlessness was given to Christ at His birth from Mary’s womb. The apostle John stated categorically, and with perfect logic, that anyone born of God (as Jesus was from the beginning) has the seed [sperm] of God within him; and as a result of having that implanted seed [sperm] the person cannot sin even if others think he sins. Note what John actually stated:
“Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed [God’s sperm] remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God
And let us recognize a fact. Jesus was certainly “born of God” at His birth. This made Christ a sinless person in God’s eyes, although legally He was carrying on His holy person all the sins of the world as a substitute sin-bearer for each of us.
And remember, the apostles recognized Christ Jesus to be Immanuel, “God With Us.” As a sure consequence of this august name of Christ’s rank, He had to be reckoned as “sinless.” So, while Jesus was bearing the sins of the world during His thirty odd years of life and while hanging on the Cross, He was quite sinless in all aspects of His life. No personal sins could actually be attributed to Christ Jesus.
However, God did place upon His Son our sins. This placement in no way changed the basic nature of Christ. His character did not become that of a murderer, a thief, or a blasphemer. His perfect attitude toward God and His character as a person was not altered by this placement of our sins on His person. While dying on the Cross, He was punished severely as an innocent lamb and was Himself quite sinless. Nevertheless, He bore the sins of the whole world. This Imputation of sins to the person of Christ was only a legal or forensic placement. But so thoroughly was Christ reckoned as bearing the world’s sins that the apostle Paul said He was actually “made” to be sin incarnate (2 Corinthians 5:21). 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
This means Christ Jesus became the personification of sin, assuming total and absolute personification of naked and incarnate sinfulness. Until His death on the Cross, this “sinfulness” included His flesh, His bones, and His blood. Everything about Christ was reckoned as corrupt “sin.” Only after Christ’s resurrection and acceptance by His father in heaven was His blood purified to be without spot in order for Him to sprinkle His own blood within the holy place in heaven to cleanse even heaven itself from its own pollution (Hebrews 9:11–14).
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Imputation of our sins to Christ, and our purification from sins through Christ’s actions on our behalf, are legal placements and do not actually show a literal contamination of Christ, a literal purification of Himself, or an actual freedom from defilement of ourselves. They do show, however, a literal Imputation of our sins to Christ, a literal purification by Christ of the throne of God in heaven and a legal purgation of every human being in the eyes of God the Father. These are legal and forensic requirements that God demands. The importance of them must be taken seriously.
Christ paid a supreme price to fulfill these judicial and legal parameters imposed on mankind by God the Father. Had He not done these legal actions for you, for me, and for all mankind, then we would have to fulfill them ourselves with disastrous consequence. But God the Father took out His vengeance for sin, the penalties for it, on His firstborn Son, Jesus Christ. He imputed our sins and the consequent punishments for our sins to the person of Christ. That is what we must look at now.
We will discover that in the plan of God, the Father not only makes His Firstborn Son Christ Jesus bear our sins (and those of the world) during His life and at the time of His crucifixion, but the Father also makes Christ Jesus bear the PUNISHMENT for all our sins IN OUR PLACE as a substitute for us. When Christ died on the Cross, the Father in heaven reckoned that act of Christ as something being done in the place of each human on earth.  Me and every other human on earth (who ever lived or will live) died in the Father’s eyes when Christ died as the punishment for sins at His crucifixion in Jerusalem!

Jodi Jesus Christ Couldn’t have DNA from any human.

God bless

 

[Ed J]

Hi Gene,

Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.

Does Luke 2:11 say: Christ the Lord is born this day in the city of David?
“Yes” or “No”

[Anthony]

Hi Jodi

Scriptures that help.

Luke 2:11
Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.

Matthew 1:18
This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph,

1 John 4:15
We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

John 1:1 4
he Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Jeremiah 17.5: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man
and makes flesh his strength”?

Just a man??

God bless 🙏

[GeneBalthrop]

T8…..Come on, surely you know Jesus was referencing that he came from the loins of King David. When Jesus said he was the root and offspring  of David, he did meant he came from that family line.  But you try to figure away around that truth right?  Is it not because you believe Jesus prexisted his berth on this earth,  yes or no?  You want truth so let’s get down to it then.  Do you believe Jesus came into his “existence”, when he was born on the earth, from the seed of king David?

 

Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

 

[Anthony]

Hi Gene 👋

You said: Do you believe Jesus came into his “existence”, when he was born on the earth, from the seed of king David?

Me: NO

[Anthony]

Hi Gene

You said: But you try to figure away around that truth right?

Me: No. Your the one trying to do that, your saying that Jesus Christ was just a man which He wasn’t.

Me: He is Immanual with us. He became flesh!!!

God bless. I hope that helps!

[carmel]

NO, he had to grow and learn,

Luke 2:49And he said to them: How is it that you sought me? did you not know, that I must be about my father’s business?

 Jodi the above is a statement by Jesus at the age of TWELVE.

Did Jesus refer to his father David’s business or to

HIS FATHER GOD’S BUSINESS?

JUST TO REMIND YOU:

According to your CORRUPTED UNDERSTANDING, HE WAS NOT YET SENT OUT INTO THE WORLD, since He was not yet baptized!

 

Peace and Love in Jesus Christ

[Ed J]

Hi Gene,

Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.

Does Luke 2:11 say: Christ the Lord is born this day in the city of David?
“Yes” or “No”

Gene?

[GeneBalthrop]

Edj….yes, that scripture does say that.  Now compare the hundreds of  other scriptures that plainly show the Angels was telling the one who would become the savior and anointed one, was born to them, and you can easely see what the angel was truly saying. Your false belife that Jesus had to be anointed twice is completely wrong. Thats like saying his first anointing was not good enough so he had to be  anointed again.

Anyone with a true understanding of scriptures can understand exactly what the Angel was telling them.

Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Carmel……According to Jesus,  his father is “our” father, his God is “our”God. 

Question is do you truly believe JESUS .

Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

[Jodi]

Hi Carmel,

Why don’t you start with addressing ALL the passages I gave that speak of Jesus being a son of David according to his flesh, according to the fruit of David’s loins,? Why don’t you address the reason God gave for bringing forth Jesus from a virgin? Why don’t you acknowledge Paul’s definition of one who is BORN of God? You just want to ignore all that? You likewise, like others just want to ignore the fact that Jesus himself spoke of his anointing according to prophecy of Isaiah, and NOT according to him being born having existed in another form.  YOU SPEAK AGAINST JESUS and what he himself DECLARED shortly after the Spirit descended upon him like a dove, when God said, “THIS is my beloved Son”.

At the age of 12 Jesus was growing and learning, he knew who he was according to what the angel told his parents and what the OT scriptures said concerning him. You left out the part where 12 year old Jesus didn’t inform his parents of his plans and caused them to search for him and worry about him.

Luke 2:39 When Joseph and Mary had done everything required by the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee to their own town of Nazareth.

40 And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was on him.

Luke 2: 44 Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. 45 When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. 46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.” 49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”

OBVIOUSLY Jesus’s parents didn’t KNOW, now did they?? Jesus is surely speaking to his parents like a 12 year old boy. He was learning and being filled with wisdom, but he certainly lacked in understanding towards parental concerns.

Carmel,

COMPARE Luke 2:40 to,

Luke 4:1 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness…14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside….17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, BECAUSE he hath ANOINTED me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 

This is Jesus speaking himself of HIS OWN ANOINTING of God’s Spirit, and he is being SENT out to perform God’s Will and preach God’s Gospel.

Notice in how the rest of Luke 4 proceeds, where it is said, “isn’t this Joseph’s son?” and Jesus responds to them by COMPARING himself to another human prophet, one who is not accepted in his hometown.

Luke 4:20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” 22 All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” they asked. 23 Jesus said to them, “Surely you will quote this proverb to me: ‘Physician, heal yourself!’ And you will tell me, ‘Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.’ ” 24 “Truly I tell you,” he continued, “no prophet is accepted in his hometown. 25 I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah’s time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land. 26 Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon. 27 And there were many in Israel with leprosyin the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed—only Naaman the Syrian.” 28 All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. 29 They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him off the cliff. 30 But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way.

Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered. 3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread. 4 And Jesus answered him, saying,It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

John 4:34 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day…51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the BREAD that I will give is my FLESH, which I will give for the life of the world.

John 14:24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Carmel,

I quote these passages because the will of the 12 year old Jesus was the will of his OWN, the words he spoke to his parents when they had been worried about him, were HIS OWN words. Jesus in fact had EXPERIENCED following his own will, it was not until Jesus had the Spirit descend like a dove upon him that Jesus was SENT out to fulfill God’s will and deny his own HUMAN will that he had been BORN WITH. Hence why we see Jesus say that he was not to do his own will, why we see Jesus just before going to the cross had asked God to take “this cup” from him.

ALSO NOTE what Jesus TEACHES in John 6, that he came down from heaven according to being the BREAD from heaven, which WAS HIS FLESH, anointed flesh that had been sent from heaven, sent by God to fulfill God’s will, to be MADE PERFECT learning obedience through suffering. 

Jesus is the firstborn of many brethren, he is the GENOS of David, and his Father is MY Father, as I will be made as scripture says, “as he is”, which is a PERFECT HUMAN, the full measure and stature of an anointing of God’s Spirit, which was God’s plan before HE Himself created the world.  

Don’t deny what Isaiah the prophet DIRECTLY TEACHES us, God MADE heaven and earth and gave breath to man and a spirit to walk therein, and he called one from among the people, from the stock of Jesse, into righteousness by placing His Spirit upon him where He would hold his hand and keep him for a covenant to the people, being sent out to perform God’s will with his final act as a mortal following God’s will to his own death. This Jesus has the glory OF a firstborn son having his spirit quickened and with his flesh not having been allowed to see decay,

BECOMING the first human of many to obtain eternal life, and be given his father David’s throne to sit there upon ACCORDING to the FLESH. Such is what God made heaven and earth in the beginning through and for. 

[Author]

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