The Ordinary Jesus Brigade

This topic contains 2,163 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  Ed J 1 hour, 55 minutes ago.

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  • #843675
     Jodi 
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    Hi Carmel,

    It is the Son of Man Jesus, the descendant of David, who is God’s servant and who sits at God’s right hand.

    Isn’t it the SON OF MAN who is returning with angels who he has charge over?

     

    #843676
     Jodi 
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    Hi Carmel,

    YOU:

    Hebrews 5:9 And BEING MADE perfect, he BECAME the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    John4:34 Jesus saith to them: My meat is to do the will of him that sent me,

    THAT I MAY PERFECT HIS WORK.

    Jodi,

    What is the difference between the above scriptures?

    Jesus being made perfect in Hebrews 5:9 ( declaration by Paul)

    Jesus was sent to perfect GOD’S WORK in John 4:34 ( declaration by Jesus)

    ME: Jesus was sent as you say, so by saying Jesus was sent are you speaking of Jesus, the Son of Man being sent as he said after having the Spirit upon him and being anointed as Luke 4 says? Or are you changing it?

    According to Isaiah God’s will was for Him to call a human into righteousness, anointing him and keeping him for a covenant for the people. Jesus, this Son of Man, fulfills God’s will.

    Consider how it is that Jesus was made perfect, he overcame the bondage that all men have, the fear of death, he did not give into the temptation of his weak flesh, instead he was able to deny it and serve not himself but God. A man made perfect, not by his own self, but through God’s Spirit strengthening him just as Isaiah had prophesied, where God placed His Spirit upon one chosen out of the people where he would not fail, God would hold his hand, keep him for a covenant for the people. It is the SON of MAN who God made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death Carmel, NOT God making some non flesh one of a kind son of God a little lower than the angels by turning him into a human. Psalm 8 and then Paul to the Hebrews is speaking of the Son of Man becoming a Son of God, just as was promised by God to David concerning David’s son. Angels are Sons of God who no longer die, Jesus the Son of Man was made a Son of God like the angels, however it was for the suffering of death, so thus he was lower than the angels, as he could die, even though he was made a Son.

    #843678
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Carmel……Jesus told us that the big deception would be about who he is. Another words how people precieve him. Here are the two views,

    Some see Jesus as a “prexisting” God or diety, who was sent by another God or deity, to this earth, and desguised in the form of a man. Who was already a anointed being when he was “morphed” into a human being, a complete “mysterious” perception of him, which they can’t even understand themselves,  neither can they explain.

    Some see a Jesus that came into his existence as a pure human being , just like we do , by a berth process , even though God the Father supplied him his male DNA,  as a second Adam, and subject to the exact same weakness of the flesh as we are, and when he was about thirty , was “anointed “, with the Holy Spirit of God.  Then was sent out by that Spirit into the wilderness to be tested forty days and nights, and after that was sent out into the world to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God.  Jesus was a God kept and perfected human being, who was of,  the root and offspring  of King David, A “man”  who God the Father,  OFFERED UP FOR THE SINS OF THE WORLD.

    The big deception Carmel has to do with who Jesus really is, nearly all christanity preachs a false JESUS , Jesus  plainly said that “many” would come in his name saying  I am , and “decieve” many” ,  question is, are you one of the “many”?

    Remember what Jesus said,  “wide is the way the leads to destruction and “many ” go in threat therein, narrow is the gate and straight is the way that leads to life and “few” there be that find it.”  So we need to be  careful what main stream “so called” “christanity”  say about who Jesus really is. Being that “many” or most  preach a false JESUS it’s easy to get caught up in the “LIE”.  2Ths 2.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

    #843679
     Jodi 
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    Good Morning Carmel,

    You gave this passage as proof that Jesus pre-existed and that he is even God.

    Hebrews 1:8 But to the Son: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of justice is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    <p class=”reg”>9 Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy FELLOWS.</p>
    The Son here is the Son of Man of the seed of David who the One True God YHWH (He Exists) of Elohiym (Powers) had said He would make into His own Son. This Son loved justice and hated iniquity so God gave him a reward above his FELLOWS. What was that reward?…he was first to obtain eternal life and God gave him dominion over all the works of YHWH’s hands, which specifically was promised in ancient times to be given to a Son of Man. 

    Carmel Jesus said himself referring to words given in the OT, that MEN are called gods, go read Psalm 82, Isaiah 61, and John 10 and then get back to me about how it is that Jesus is being called a god by Paul in Hebrews. There is ONE True God who ALONE exists with Powers his name is YHWH, Jesus is not YHWH, he is a created creature of YHWH who God perfected and MADE into His image. Jesus received the full measure of powers from YHWH and with them he brings justice, he rescues the poor and the needy from the wicked, unlike those called gods of Psalms 82, mighty men who did not do justice.
    <p class=”reg”>10 And: THOU IN THE BEGINNING, O LORD, DIDST FOUND THE EARTH; AND THE WORKS OF THY HANDS ARE THE HEAVENS.</p>
    This is speaking of YHWH, as obvious because we have another passages that tells us that YHWH gives the works of His hands over to the Son of Man, hence why Paul just told us that the Son was anointed above his fellows. Don’t forget that Jesus is our righteous judge thus a ruler, a god over us because he had suffered temptation just like us, he can relate to our infirmities.

    11 They shall perish, but thou shalt CONTINUE: and they shall all grow old as a garment.

    12 And as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: but THOU ART THE SELFSAME, AND THY YEARS SHALL NOT FAIL.

    This passages are still speaking of YHWH.

    13 But to which of the angels said he at any time: Sit on my right hand, until I make thy enemies thy footstool?

    Which of the angels did YHWH say at any time, sit on my right hand, until I make thy enemies thy footstool? YHWH said it to the Son of Man who WAS MADE a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death to be crowned with glory and honor, as was a promise given to David.  It IS the Son of Man that is said to sit at God’s right hand, it is the resurrected Jesus who was raised in power, in glory, whose flesh was not allowed to see decay but was MADE incorruptible. The crown that he wheres is the crown to the Kingdom of David, that crown is placed on a Son of Man given eternal life who is the root and offspring of David. ACCORDING to the FLESH does the Christ sit on this throne.

    YHWH does not change He is the same and He cannot lie, His promises are fulfilled. He had said he would MAKE David’s Son into His own Son, He had said He would MAKE David’s son into His firstborn. He had said that He was going to MAKE the Son of Man a little lower than the angels, He had said He was going to call a Son of Man to righteousness and make him a covenant for the people. He said He was going to anoint him with His Spirit and not allow him to fail, make him a ruler over all His works.

     

    #843680
     carmel 
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    Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time:

    Sit on my right hand, until

    I MAKE THY ENEMIES THY FOOTSTOOLS.

     

    Jodi, WHO IS THE SERVANT IN THE ABOVE?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #843682
     t8 
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    YOU:What about the point that some here teach as a rule that Jesus is never the Christ because the word Jesus on its own in the Bible refers only to a man (without the anointing) like anyone else here.

    ME: Jesus refers to Jesus, and Jesus was anointed by God, as scripture directly tells you t8.

    But Jesus was the Christ at birth. It is clearly written. If you cannot agree with the message of that angel recorded in scripture, then you have a different opinion to God and I’m guessing that you will lose that one.

    I noticed that you just dance around this issue and appear to lack the courage to tackle this head on.

    We should believe scripture and then our understanding should form from there. It is foolish to ignore a scripture because you think you have a full picture in your mind, but ignore all scripture that doesn’t agree with that picture.

    And the point about Jesus becoming the the Christ because he was anointed at the Jordan and yet we who also receive the same Spirit are not the Christ based on the same reasoning? Obviously there is more to Jesus being the Christ because of his baptism. They are three very good questions that you need to take a good long hard look at and also pray about.

    1. It is written he was the Christ when he came into the world.
    2. We receive the same Spirit and obviously we are not the Christ.
    3. All the scriptures you quote to discredit that angel’s message about Jesus being born the Christ are actually in harmony with this view.

    Back to the drawing board Jodi and Gene because the Antichrist Spirit denies that Jesus is the Christ.

    #843685
     t8 
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    Gene.

    Why are we who have received the same spirit that Jesus received the Christ?

    Why are you not Gene the Christ if you claim to have the Spirit of God?

    #843686
     Jodi 
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    t8,

    God gives unto mortal men of His Spirit in measures, Jesus is the only exception as he was given of the Spirit without measure. Paul was given of the Spirit to be an apostle, that did not make him perfect, he still sinned. He longed for the day that God would perfect him, where he would have a body that would no longer tempt him. Paul taught in Hebrews 11 that those who have faith will receive this perfecting all together when Jesus returns.

    We are told that we shall see Jesus as he is for we shall be as he is upon his return. Jesus is in fact the firstborn of the dead of many brethren.

    #843687
     Jodi 
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    Hi Anthony,

    Matthew 2: 1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, 2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

    So Anthony you are basically trying to tell us that Jesus was born a king of the Jews, that at his birth the Jews accepted him as their king and he began to rule over them? Does that sound right to you? Of course it doesn’t, but such is how you want to apply the infant being called the Christ at his birth, so why don’t you assert he was a king of the Jews literally at the moment of his birth and he began at that time ruling over Jews? You won’t because such is foolish, but for some reason it is foolish of me to say that just as the infant was called a King at his birth, in the same manner he was also called the Christ.

    The reason why the wise men called the infant “King of the Jews” is BECAUSE he SHALL BE a King, they know the prophecies concerning this child and they call him according to prophecy.

    3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. 4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. 5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee SHALL COME a Governor, that SHALL rule my people Israel.

     

    “Where is he that is born King of the Jews”

    “he demanded of them where Christ should be born”.

    The passage even speaks of prophecy but you only want to apply it or not apply it in order for it to fit your doctrine.  

    Out of Bethlehem there shall come a governor, that SHALL RULE my people Israel.

    The infant shall be a ruler and the infant shall be the anointed. Does scripture back this up? Yes it does EXACTLY! Which is why I cannot understand for the life of me how you continue to assert something entirely against that which is given directly in God’s word.

     

    #843688
     Jodi 
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    Continued for Anthony and also t8,

    Prophecy of a King, who the infant Jesus was called because that was what he was going to become,

    2 Samuel 7: 12 When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.

    Acts 2: 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, he would RAISE UP CHRIST to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

    Prophecy of the anointed, who the infant was called because that is what he was going to become, 

    also, prophecy of a savior, who the infant was called because that is what he was going to become,

    Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

    Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him…Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness…14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about…18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord..

    Acts 4: 27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

    Isaiah 41: 8 But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. 9 Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away. 10 Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

    Isaiah 49: 3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified. And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

    Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

    Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he SHOULD BE THE FIRST that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

    Acts 13: 23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Savior, Jesus:

     

    #843689
     Jodi 
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    Hi t8,

    I hope that you read the passages above. 

    It is clearly written that Jesus is called a king, a savior, a master, and the anointed at his birth.

    You will admit that at his birth he wasn’t actually a king yet, nor at his birth had he saved us from our sins yet, as he had to be perfected and then die first, and as an infant he certainly was not a master over anyone yet.

    The infant was called all these because of prophecy concerning him. You speak as if there existed NO prophecy about an anointing, but yet it exists. You speak as if Jesus doesn’t quote that prophecy concerning his anointing, but yet he in fact did. Then you assert that it is error for the infant to be called the anointed because he is the person according to prophecy, saying he is called the anointed for reasons not of prophecy, though the infant does in fact grow and later fulfill the exact prophecy of the anointing.

    First you have the prophecies

    Then you have the infant born who is of those prophecies and rightly thus called according to those prophecies

    Then you see the infant grow and later fulfill those prophecies giving you the exact proof as to why the infant had been called those things in the first place.

    Matthew 1:21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he WILL save HIS people from their sins.” 22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet..

    Such is why Jesus at his birth is called a savior by the angel, it is because of what God had promised He was going to fulfill through him. Go read the passages I gave above concerning the prophecies of a coming savior. He was not to be a non flesh one of a kind son of God morphed into a human, he was going to be one chosen from among the people of Israel, of Jacob, of the tribe of Judah, who God would anoint calling him into righteousness, not allowing him to fail in fulfilling God’s will.

     

    #843698
     carmel 
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    You: Jesus was sent as you say, so by saying Jesus was sent are you speaking of Jesus, the Son of Man being sent as he said after having the Spirit upon him and being anointed as Luke 4 says? Or are you changing it?

    John1:33 And I knew him not;

    BUT HE WHO SENT ME  to baptize with water, said to me: He upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining upon him, he it is that baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

    Jodi,

    John was sent by God the Father, NO?

    John did PREEXIST NO?

    John himself declared that  Jesus was before him, and he never knew Him.

    Jesus preexisted NO?

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #843699
     carmel 
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    Carmel Jesus said himself referring to words given in the OT, that MEN are called gods, go read Psalm 82, Isaiah 61, and John 10 and then get back to me about how it is that Jesus is being called a god by Paul in Hebrews.

     

    psalm 82

    A psalm for Asaph.

    God hath stood in the congregation of gods: and being in the midst of them he judgeth gods.

    6 I have said: You are gods and all of you the sons of the most High.

    8 Arise, O God, judge thou the earth: for thou shalt inherit among all the nations.

     

    Isaiah 61:2 o proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God: to comfort all that mourn

    6 But you shall be called the priests of the Lord: to you it shall be said: Ye ministers of our God:

    10 I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, and my soul shall be joyful in my God:

    11 so shall the Lord God make justice to spring forth, and praise before all the nations.

     

    John10:38 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, maketh thyself God.

    Jodi,

    In the above scriptures wherever there is a reference to God almighty it is always written with a capital “G”

    Now read Hebrews 1:8

    But to the Son:

    thy throne O God is for ever and ever: a sceptre of justice is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

     

    It is not written AS YOU SAID:

    that Jesus is being called a god by Paul in Hebrews.

    Jodi respect scriptures, please!

    Now read, please

    John 3:13  And no man hath ascended into heaven,

    BUT HE THAT DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN,

    The Son of Man  WHO IS IN HEAVEN.

    In the above Jesus declared that

    HE DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN, hence HE PREEXISTED! He also declared that while He was on earth,

    HE WAS ALSO IN HEAVEN! and AS SON OF MAN!

    EXPLAIN PLEASE! since my version might not please you!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ.

    #843700
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Carmel…….You need to make a word study on the word “before”  in scriptures it can have nothing to do with a persons date of berth. False Christanity forces the text to say that, but the actual meaning of the text has to do with JESUS’ POSITION OF IMPORTANCE. IF you want to see Jesus as before John , he was mentioned before John in scriptures as a prophesied person to come.  AS FAR as Jesus comming into  his existence , he was born six months after the berth of John the baptist.  He did not preceed John in existence.

    SAME APPLIES TO HIM BEING BEFORE ABRAHAM , it speaking of , “IN IMPORTANCE”. 

    Peace and love to you and yours……….gene

    #843702
     GeneBalthrop 
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    To All……The main thrust of nearly all Christanity, is to move Jesus’ away from his “human”  existence, and make him into a “prexisting” God,  or a Deity of somekind. ALL who preach Jesus as a GOD or DEITY od some kind,  are false teachers.  

    They Are IDOLATERS,  and are in the way of destruction, why? , read the first commandment.  

    You shall have “NO” other God “besides” me, you shall make no image of me in heaven above nor earth beneath. 

    How many here believe what God the Father said, I will garentee you , Jesus sure did. 

    If you have begun wrong go back to the beginning and start over, learn to see Jesus as a fellow human being, as a son of man from the loins of,  (King DAVID) JUST AS HE SAID HE WAS.  Stop treating What Jesus said about himself as trash, and start to believe what and who he , Clearly said he was. 

    Come out of the dark, into the light, out of deception into the glorious liberty of the sons of God. 

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

     

    #843703
     carmel 
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    You: 10 And: THOU IN THE BEGINNING, O LORD, DIDST FOUND THE EARTH; AND THE WORKS OF THY HANDS ARE THE HEAVENS.

    This is speaking of YHWH, as obvious because we have another passages that tells us that YHWH gives the works of His hands over to the Son of Man

     

    Jodi  the above scriptures are not declaring that God  gave His work of His hand over to the Son of Man.

    But simply declaring that God Himself, obvious hidden in “THE WORD” Jesus as a spirit, the Son of Man to be,

    created both the heavens and the earth . This is also more than clear precisely in

    Hebrews 1:2 In these days……..,

    BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLD!

    Jodi are you still blind to see THAT GOD DID NOT CREATE THE WORLD ALL BY HIMSELF BUT

    THROUGH HIS SON, AS “THE WORD” SIMPLY IN ORDER TO BE

    THE KINGDOM OF THE SON NOT

    THE KINGDOM OF THE FATHER, IN ORDER ALSO THAT ALL CREATURES EVENTUALLY BECOME

    CHILDREN OF GOD. IN ONE SAME BLOOD, AND IN ONE SAME FATHER IN JESUS CHRIST,

    THE FATHER OF THE WORLD TO COME.

    Isaiah 9:6.

    the fact that in Hebrews 1o He is referred to as O LORD.

     

    Now hereunder is ALL Hebrews 1

    NOWHERE, I REPEAT NOWHERE IN HEBREWS 1 IS A DIRECT REFERENCE TO GOD ALMIGHTY WITH THE EXCEPTIONS OF

    1,2, 3, and 4. which are also direct references to the Son. The fact that these four verses are as a paragraph. Then all the remaining verses are a direct reference to Jesus Christ OUR LORD GOD. Read and reflect please!

    1God, who, at sundry times and in divers manners, spoke in times past to the fathers by the prophets, last of all, 2In these days hath spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the world. 3Who being the brightness of his glory,and the figure of his substance,and upholding all things by the word of his power, making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high.4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath inherited a more excellent name than they.

    5 For to which of the angels hath he said at any time, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    6And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith: And let all the angels of God adore him.

    7And to the angels indeed he saith: He that maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

    8But to the Son: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of justice is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

    9Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    10And: Thou in the beginning, O Lord, didst found the earth: and the works of thy hands are the heavens.

    11They shall perish, but thou shalt continue: and they shall all grow old as a garment.

    12And as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed: but thou art the selfsame, and thy years shall not fail.

    13But to which of the angels said he at any time: Sit on my right hand, until I make thy enemies thy footstool?

    14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent to minister for them, who shall receive the inheritance of salvation?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #843704
     carmel 
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    Carmel…….You need to make a word study on the word “before”  in scriptures it can have nothing to do with a persons date of berth.

    Gene,

    John was born BEFORE JESUS!

    The word “BEFORE ” HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A PERSON BIRTH

    in John 1:30  This is he, of whom I said: After me there cometh a man, who is preferred before me: because he was before me.

    AFTER ME THERE COMES A MAN! Here John declares that Jesus comes after him in relation to the work of redemption.

    WHO IS PREFERRED BEFORE ME: Here John declares that Jesus is preferred before Him, as the saviour. EVEN BEFORE JOHN WAS CREATED, obvious by “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man to be.

    BECAUSE HE WAS BEFORE ME. Here John declares that Jesus was before him FROM ETERNITY IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER.

    Gene God created ALL BY HIS SON, NOT ALL BY HIMSELF!

    This is more than clear precisely in

    Hebrews 1:1 In these days……..,

    BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLD!

    GENE YOU ARE WRONG WITH YOUR STATEMENT That Jesus did not precede John in existence.

    “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man to be,  as a spirit, was/is the source by which God CREATED ALL!

    PLEASE READ AND REFLECT:

    Colossians 1:16 For IN HIM WERE ALL THINGS CREATED in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers:

    ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM

    and in him. 17And he is

    BEFORE  ALL and BY HIM  all things CONSIST.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #843705
     carmel 
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    You: learn to see Jesus as a fellow human being, as a son of man from the loins of,  (King DAVID) JUST AS HE SAID HE WAS.

    There’s no doubt that you believe that Jesus was A SON OF MAN.

    Now scriptures are more than clear that Jesus is also THE SON OF GOD.

     

    John1:34 And I saw, and I gave testimony, that this is the Son of God.

     

    Luke1:35 And the angel answering, said to her:

    The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,

    and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee.

    And therefore also the HOLY which shall be born of thee shall be called THE SON OF GOD.

     

    Matthew 1:18 Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, OF THE HOLY GHOST.

    John 8:42 Jesus, therefore, said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me.

    FOR FROM GOD I PROCEEDED AND CAME;

    FOR I CAME NOT OF MYSELF,

    BUT HE SENT ME.

    From the above scriptures, IT IS EMPHATICALLY CLEAR that Jesus was born totally different from an ordinary human being!

    And it is more difficult to believe that  Jesus was an ordinary man than A ONE TIME UNIQUE EXTRAORDINARY DIVINE /HUMAN BEING.

    Nevertheless, Jesus was born BOTH AN EARTHLY MAN OF MARY, SON OF DAVID, AND A HEAVENLY MAN OF GOD.SON OF GOD.

    Jesus had AN EARTHLY SOUL  AND A HEAVENLY SOUL .

    TWO IN ONE EMBODIMENT. ALL HEAVENLY! aSSERTED IN

    1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man was of the earth, EARTHLY, the second man, from heaven, HEAVENLY.

    The fact that WHILE the earthly man DIED and was buried,  the heavenly man,  GLORIFIED, IN ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE EARTHLY MAN, BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH, went to hell and preached the gospel.Then the earthly MAN RESURRECTED, BORN AGAIN FROM AMONG THE DEAD FOR THE FIRST TIME IN THE AUTHENTIC SATANIC MAN PURIFIED AND PURCHASED  BY JESUS’ OWN BLOOD ON THE CROSS. AND IN THE EVENING OF THE SAME DAY OF HIS RESURRECTION, INTEGRATED WITH THE HEAVENLY MAN AGAIN AND BECAME

    GOD OF ALL FLESH

    JESUS CHRIST WITH TWO KIND OF HUMAN BODY,

    TWO IN ONE EMBODIMENT,

    DIVINE WHO CAME FROM GOD, AND EARTHLY EX SATANIC IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN. AND LEFT SATAN EMPTY HANDED.

    well clear in

    1Peter1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath REGENERATED us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4Unto an INHERITANCE incorruptible, and undefiled, and that can not fade, RESERVED  in heaven for you, 

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

     

    #843715
     Jodi 
    Participant
    • Topics started 10
    • Total replies 1,709

    Hi Carmel,

    YOU:Jodi,

    John was sent by God the Father, NO?

    John did PREEXIST NO?

    John himself declared that Jesus was before him, and he never knew Him.

    Jesus preexisted NO?

    ME: Jesus is BEFORE John though he came after John. Jesus is before John in what way Carmel?

    Because he existed beforehand he is before him, or because God’s plan was that God would perfect him and give him dominion overall?  John says that the one who comes after him is preferred before him. Who enters God’s kingdom first, how is it that John is able to enter the kingdom? John the baptist was a great prophet, Jesus even spoke that of all the prophets to the point of John, he was the greatest. What does Moses say concerning the prophet to come who is Jesus?  Moses could have likewise said that the one who comes after me is preferred before me. Jesus is before all in the context that he is the firstborn of the dead the first to enter God’s kingdom, and he is given authority overall.

    Carmel don’t ever forget that Jesus is before ALL among his own brethren, a judge over all, BECAUSE God placed His Spirit upon him, calling him to righteousness, to be a righteous leader (before all), and in order for him to do that he had to suffer first, he had to know our infirmities, such made him perfect, perfect as a Son of Man following Gods will, and perfect as becoming our righteous judge. Don’t FORGET the son of David who was crucified who God raised from the dead, God MADE him the anointed, our master.

    Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

    Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people 24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. 25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. 

    Carmel, Jesus is before all not because he is the One True God, Jesus is before all because the One True God gave him of His Spirit in full measure perfecting him so that God could make him our source for eternal life. The One True God’s promise to us is that we too shall be made perfect, we too shall join our BROTHER Jesus, we have that opportunity to receive God’s Spirit as he did because he wiped away the penalty for our sins, which was death.  When the SON OF MAN returns among the clouds in the glory of his Father, we shall see him as he is because we will be as he is, a Son of Man with eternal life. 

    2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    62 And Jesus said,I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

    Hebrews 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

    1 Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    Carmel does your FAITH equate to Paul’s words?

    Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

    Definitely doesn’t sound like it, you preach against that which our faith should be in, you want to make Jesus into the One True God, and not our brother, a perfect man, a Son of God that we have been promised to be changed ourselves into.

    #843716
     Jodi 
    Participant
    • Topics started 10
    • Total replies 1,709

    Carmel, a capital letter given for God or a lower case letter for god occurs by the translator’s discretion.

    Jesus never claims to be the One True God, just the opposite. When people accuse him of blasphemy because they say he makes himself into God, he corrects them by referencing OT scripture about how the One True God’s word to the prophet says that mighty men are called gods.

    Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. 6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    Why is this seed of David called THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS?… because Jesus is of his former self who is the One True God?  NO! Scripture is clear and says very much otherwise.

    Jesus is called the LORD our righteousness because of what the One True God accomplishes through him. God uses Jesus to bring us into the faith of the One True God.

    1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 

    Through Jesus, the seed of David, the MAN anointed, who shed his blood, our faith and hope are in the One True God.

    1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;

    how is it that this Jesus is a mighty man, how is it that he is a god?

    Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

    Jesus is called the LORD our righteousness because the LORD gave him of His Spirit. The root of Jesse was called to righteousness as Isaiah says directly in chapter 42 and is evident in verse 11. Jesus after his anointing, when he is of the Spirit of Counsel and Might the people beheld his glory, the only mortal begotten of God’s Spirit without measure, in full power.  Jesus said seeing him was as seeing God, which is because as Jesus also said that he did nothing of himself all things were done by God’s Spirit that was in him, and was done not according to his will but that of God’s will.  Jesus is called the LORD our righteousness because as our LORD called him to righteousness through the works of His Spirit we were brought the redemption from our sins. By our faith in these things, that Jesus is the Son of God as a perfect man according to the fullness and stature of an anointing, we are promised to be made as he was made. Such is why Jesus is called firstborn of the dead. 

     

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