The Holy Spirit

This topic contains 2,693 replies, has 66 voices, and was last updated by  Ed J 5 months, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #5012
     NickHassan 
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    Hi guest,
    The problem is with other scriptures that say
    Jn 1.18″ No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father. He has explained Him”
    1Tim 6.16 “He is the blessed and only ruler , the King of Kings and lord of Lords who alone has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no human being has ever seen or can see”
    1Jn 4.12″ No one has ever seen God, yet if we love one another God dwells in us”

    3 scriptures is a pretty good witness to this truth that no man has seen God-or can see God, or even can approach God. The being with the two angels was seen by Abraham. He had the appearance of a man. He had feet and needed rest, he walked and talked with Abraham and ate food.

    The Old and New Testaments are full of references to God's throne being in heaven.
    ” Is 66.1..The heavens are my throne, the earth is my foostool”
    Jesus said in Mt 34 ” Do not swear by heaven[it is God's throne]”
    Ps 11.4,45.6,47.8, 103.19, Acts 7.49 and Hebrews 8.1 attest to this truth also.

    So something has to give here as scripture is always true.

    We know that the angel of the Lord is a fearful being such that Gideon feared he would die when he saw him in Judges 6.
    We know that in Revelation it describes even some angels as terrifying beings.[eg 10.1]
    We know the angel of the Lord speaks for God.
    We know that God uses angels for his errands on earth such as announcing the news about her future pregnancy to Mary.

    God is Spirit, Jesus tells us, and there are no scriptures to say God has ever lived in flesh himself. Since this would be bigger news than anything else in the bible is not there an unnatural silence about it in the Word?

    If God has already appeared on earth why is this not a greater event than the arrival of God's Son?

    #5015
     NickHassan 
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    cont,
    When Solomon built the temple was it for God to dwell there?
    This is what he said in 2 Chr 6.18
    ” But will God indeed dwell with mankind on the earth? Behold heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built…..That thine eyes may be open toward this house day and night, toward the place which thou hast said that thou wouldst put thy name there, to listen to the prayer which thy servant shall pray toward this place…Hear thou from thy dwelling place, from heaven”
    Each of us is a house built by God and we too cannot contain God.
    what do you think?

    #5016
     t8 
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    Yes Jesus himself taught that no man can see God and when scriptures talk about a man seeing God, it is God's glory that they are seeing. That glory is often light or a divine being clothed in light sent to represent the invisible God, such as the Angel of the Lord.

    However this eternal God who cannot be fully contained within any finite boundary (especially a body) certainly lives inside his people and of course primarily in his son. But I assume that he dwells in them by his Spirit. But as Nick pointed out, not even the whole of creation can contain God.

    John 14:9
    Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

    John 17:23
    I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

    2 Corinthians 5:19
    that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

    God is in Christ and Christ is in God. God and his Christ are inside his people. It is by the Spirit of God that we are one. One in Spirit, many in soul/identity.

    #5017
     t8 
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    Quote (Guest @ Dec. 21 2004,22:09)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2004,02:40)
    The Father has never been on earth .


    If this is true then how do you explain Gen 3:8, 18:1….


    Genesis 3:8
    Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

    First off I would say that the Lord doesn't walk unless he is inside a being that walks. For God is Spirit. I can only assume that the being that God was in, was his son. That is my guess. Anyone have another view?

    John 14:20
    On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

    2 Samuel 22:10-12
    10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet.
    11 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.
    12 And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies.

    Here we can see YHWH flying. On the wings of the angel.

    #5023
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,
    How is the Holiday?
    We see it written that Adam HEARD the sound of the Lord God walking, and talking. It does not say SAW the Lord God though.
    The scripture from 2 Sam of course refers to the Return of Jesus as rescuer of the Jews and King of the Earth-as agent again for his Father. That day is called a Day of Clouds.
    Ps 97″ The Lord is King ;let the earth rejoice, let the many isles be glad.Clouds and darkness are around him, justice and judgement are the foundation of his throne. Fire goes before him and consumes his foes around him and lightnings illumine the world ;the earth sees and trembles, the mountains melt like wax before the Lord, before the Lord of all the earth”
    Ps 1034.3 “He makes the clouds his chariot”
    Jl  2.1″..,. for the Day of the Lord is coming ;yes it is near , a day of darkness and of gloom, a day of clouds and sombreness”
    Zeph 1.15″ A day of clouds and thick darkness”
    Mt 24.30″ You will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven”
    Rev 1.7″ See here he comes amid the clouds..”
    There are many more too so this is an important sign I feel associated with great earthquakes and fire.

    #5084
     david A 
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    Quote (digger @ July 11 2004,19:22)
    Question: The Spirit with no PERSONAL NAME

    If the Holy spirit is the third person in a trinity why does the Holy Spirit not possess a personal name after all the Father has a personal name:


    The Holy spirit is considered by many to be the divine feminine. The Holy spirit (wisdom) and the divine feminine are inexplicably linked; they are considered by many to be one and the same:

    Prov. III: 13-18:

    13: Happy is the  man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth  understanding.  
    14: For the merchandise of it is better than  the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine  gold.  
    15: She is more precious than rubies: and all the  things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.  
    16: Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand  riches and honour.  
    17: Her ways are ways of pleasantness,  and all her paths are peace.  
    18: She is a tree of life to  them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth  her.

    Note: It goes on…..

    But where do we go to find textual evidence that the Holy Spirit (in the origins of Christianity) was considered feminine?

    The Siniatic Palimpsest (4th or 5th century) The words of Jesus in John 14:26 read:

    >>

    But She -the Spirit – the Paraclete whom He-will-send to you- my Father – in my name – She will teach you every thing; she will remind you of that which I have told you.

    >>

    Say unto Wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman. (Proverbs 7:4)

    But you asked. “why no personal name”

    Sophia is found throughout the wisdom literature in the Bible. There are references to “Her” in the book of Proverbs. Sophia is the wisdom incarnate (the Goddess of all those who are wise)

    #5085
     NickHassan 
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    Hi D.A,
    Of course Wisdom is contrasted with the enticement of the whore .The blessing contrasted with the curse.

    The Spirit is a portion of the Spirit of God poured out among christians to help them. As man is helped by woman-dunno?

    The Spirit comforts, teaches, empowers and reveals secrets and the future. The Spirit prays for us to the Father about needs we do not know we have. The Spirit reminds us we are saved and will raise our bodies at the return of Jesus.

    #5086
     david A 
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    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 29 2004,01:13)
    The Spirit is a portion of the Spirit of God poured out among christians to help them. As man is helped by woman-dunno?


    Nick: I would suggest that she is more than a portion of it; that she is the feminine remanant that the patriarchal Roman Church failed to eradicate completely.

    The Greek philosophers saw Sophia as the goddess of Wisdom.

    Biblical tradition (in the Old Testament and the Apocrypha) saw Wisdom as Sophia, And Sophia as Yahweh’s companion in creation.

    #5087
     NickHassan 
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    Hi David A,
    We do not follow Greek philosophy.
    We do not worship other gods or goddesses.
    The Roman Church ,or any other, cannot frustrate God's plans or eradicate God's Spirit.
    Wisdom is God's first creation and was imbued in all God's work.
    Wisdom is a gift of the Spirit of God.

    Where is the apocrypha is Sophia?.

    #5091
     david A 
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    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 29 2004,10:00)
    Hi David A,
    We do not follow Greek philosophy.
    We do not worship other gods or goddesses.
    The Roman Church ,or any other, cannot frustrate God's plans or eradicate God's Spirit.
    Wisdom is God's first creation and was imbued in all God's work.
    Wisdom is a gift of the Spirit of God.

    Where is the apocrypha is Sophia?.


    Nick:

    In the year 325 AD Emperor Constantine offered to take a little known Christian sect and make it the official state religion, if (and only if) the people who belonged to it would settle their differences. He didn't much care about what they believed, as long as they agreed (on a single belief) By compiling a book of sacred writings, Constantine thought that this book would give authority to his new Church.

    It was approx two hundred and fifty years before that Christ was crucified!

    The Gnostic texts mixed many facets of Christian belief with the philosophical beliefs of the Greeks. Gnostics rejected the God of the Israelites. True Christianity developed out of this conflict. True Christianity is neither Judaic (nor Hellenic) Neither is it Roman. It is a new covenant between God and his people — through His Son Jesus Christ.

    The Greek texts, the Roman texts, the Apocrypha, the Dead Sea Scrolls and Yes “the philosophy” of the Greeks and Romans are all part of early Christianity. Many documents were written before the council of Nicea (not afterwards)

    IMO: We need to read and discuss everything and anything that may pertain to early Christianity.

    Wisdom (Sophia) permeates many of the early writings, but was eradicated from what we now refer to as “The New Testament”

    #5092
     NickHassan 
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    Hi DA,
    The church formed by Constantine is not the church I have faith in. It is of the world and has cut itself off from the head of the Body of Christ.
    The fact that others have added to the teachings of the bible should not be our primary focus. The word of God is truth.The rest may contain some dim reflections of truth so should not be ignored but checked out according to the revealed truth in the Old and New Testaments.
    All roads lead to salvation for any individual and that cannot be found in any denomination. The rest is vanity till one is established on the rock of salvation surely?

    #5095
     david A 
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    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 29 2004,13:00)
    Hi DA,
    The church formed by Constantine is not the church I have faith in. It is of the world and has cut itself off from the head of the Body of Christ.
    The fact that others have added to the teachings of the bible should not be our primary focus. The word of God is truth.The rest may contain some dim reflections of truth so should not be ignored but checked out according to the revealed truth in the Old and New Testaments.
    All roads lead to salvation for any individual and that cannot be found in any denomination. The rerst is vanity till one is established on the rock of salvation surely?


    Nick: There is much wisdom in that which ye speak.

    In Matthew 16:18, Jesus said to Simon Peter:

    “And I say also unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”

    I will reconsider the extent of the path.

    #5099
     NickHassan 
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    Hi DA,
    Does anyone truly believe that the glorious empire that is filled with art and wealth and luxury is the fruit of Peter's decision to state that Jesus was the messiah and the Son of God?
    Would Peter claim any part of that monstrosity should he walk again on earth? Peter himself had to be corrected by Paul, was only a part of the body that made decisions for the church and died for his faith in a cruel way.
    That was faith.. the rest is vanity.

    #5100
     david A 
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    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 29 2004,15:05)
    Hi DA,
    Does anyone truly believe that the glorious empire that is filled with art and wealth and luxury is the fruit of Peter's decision to state that Jesus was the messiah and the Son of God?
    Would Peter claim any part of that monstrosity should he walk again on earth? Peter himself had to be corrected by Paul, was only a part of the body that made decisions for the church and died for his faith in a cruel way.
    That was faith.. the rest is vanity.

    Paul reproved Peter and challenged him to believe the gospel of grace (the gospel of one body)

    Both Apostles were well aware of the fact that the “Law of Moses” no longer had authority over their behaviour.

    #5101
     NickHassan 
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    Quite so DA,
    But old habits are hard to break.

    #5102
     david A 
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    Nick: Are we not all (who read and study the Bible) guilty of vainglory?

    #5104
     NickHassan 
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    No, we are wise men seeking to grasp all that God has given us knowing that our lives are short and He is eternal.

    #5281
     NickHassan 
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    Hi,
    When Yeshua walked on the water the disciples thought they were seeing a ghost.
    Again after the resurrection
    Luke 24.36
    ” While they were telling these things he[JESUS] himself stood in their midst and sid to them
    'Peace be to you.'
    But they were startled and frightened and thought they were seeing a spirit. And he said to them
    'Why are you troubled and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet. It is I myself;touch me and see., for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have '
    And when he had said this he showed them his hands and his feet. While they still could not believe it beacuse of their joy and amazement. He said to them
    'Have you something to eat?'
    They gave him a piece of broiled fish and he took it and ate it before them”

    There is no doubt to me that this was Yeshua back in his original tent or body and he proved that it was mortal by the flesh and bones comment and the eating of food.
    My question is this.
    Did the use of 'ghost' or 'spirit' in these verses reflect reality of their nature of were they just a common popular use of the words”? If that could be the case then could the use of 'spirit' rather than 'soul' also be mal-used elsewhere in the Word causing a little confusion?[eg 1Cor 7.34]

    #5332
     thehappyman 
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    Hi:
      I have read this scripture and looked for an answer for us all. Soul is the inner man; Spirit is an immaterial being. Like the Holy Spirit, Gen 1:2 , angels Heb 1:7, evil beings 1Sam. 16:14-23.
    Characteristics, seat of consciousness, Judge 15 :19, center of emotions 1Kings 21:5, leaves body,Ecc.12:7 + Jas. 2:26, ect.
    Soul, unsaved Jas.5:20, man's life 1Sam.24:11, disembodied state, Rev6:9 +20:4, characteristics, most vital asset Matt.16:26, possesses immortaliy Matt.10:28. Both created by God and inspiredly written for eternal life. …….:)

    #5334
     NickHassan 
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    Hi HM,
    Thanks for the input. Some good insights there. Especially the preciousness of the soul. Those who translate 'soul' as 'life' only would struggle with the verses in Revelation.

    Looking at those verses how did John know what he was seeing were souls? He would never have sen one before I would have thought and they were not wearing labels. My thought is that souls resemble bodies of people but are different. As you say 'the inner man'

    Those who think that life ends for sinners after judgement should check 2 Thess 1.6f
    “For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you and to give relief to you who are afflicted, and to us as well, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and the glory of his Power..”

    Godlessness is punished and all who do not obey the Son…eternally.

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