The Holy Spirit

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  • #3729
     NickHassan 
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    Yes t8,
    I agree it is written thus and it is interesting that Coll 1.15 is the only use of the term “.the firstborn of all creatures.” for Jesus. in the Bible.
    cf
    Coll 1.18″..the firstborn of the dead.”
    Rev 1.5 “..the firstborn from the dead and ruler of the kings of Earth”
    Heb 12.23 ” No, you have drawn near to Mount Zion and the City of the Living God,the heavenly angels in festal gathering, to the assembly of the firstborn enrolled in heaven, to God the Judge of all ,to the spirits of just men made perfect ,to Jesus ..”

    The word used in all the above scriptures is the same and different to the word “begotten” which appears 10 times in relationship to Jesus.

    I am puzzled and expect there will be a deeper reason for this lone scripture use. Anyone else know?

    #3730
     t8 
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    To me these 2 versions say different things.

    NIV
    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

    NASB
    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

    One version says that Jesus is of creation and the other says that he is over it. I think the NIV is the more accurate when we look at the context of other scriptures about Christ.

    #3731
     NickHassan 
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    Yes.

    #3732
     NickHassan 
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    If you were selling your house and arranged for a buyer to give you a downpayment and he gave you a blank sheet of paper instead would the sale go through? No way.

    God has made us the same sort of promise. And He is the REAL DEAL.

    2 Cor1.21f ” Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God ,WHO ALSO SEALED US AND GAVE US THE SPIRIT IN OUR HEARTS AS A PLEDGE.”
    Eph 1.13″ ..-having also believed ,you were SEALED IN HIM WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE, WHO IS GIVEN AS A PLEDGE OF OUR INHERITANCE , WITH A VIEW TO THE REDEMPTION OF GOD'S OWN POSSESSION, TO THE PRAISE OF HIS GLORY”
    1Jn 4 13″ By this we know that we abide in Him and he in us
    BECAUSE HE HAS GIVEN US OF HIS SPIRIT”

    No wonder Paul was able to say to the believers in Acts 19
    ” Did you receive the holy Spirit when you believed ?” He expected them to have experienced a new power and life.

    That promise was given by Jesus in Jn 14-17. He said the Holy Spirit would teach us and remind of the words of Jesus and would comfort us and would tell us of things in the future.

    Do we experience these things? Do scriptures come to mind when needed and the whole picture fit together in harmony?Does comfort come when we are stressed and struggling?

    If not do not hesitate to remind the Father of His promised gift and expect an answer.

    #3733
     NickHassan 
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    Hi,
    I Cor 12.12f ” The body is one and has many members,but all the members,many though they are ,are one body.It was in one Spirit that all of us, whether Jew or Greek, slave or free
    were baptised into one body. All of us have been given to drink of the one Spirit”

    This is the living church ,the Body of Christ on earth. Entry demands baptism in water and the Spirit. Jesus said in
    Jn 3.5″ I solemnly assure you, no one can enter into God's kingdom without being begotten of water and the Spirit”

    Rom 8 .9″..If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ ,he does not belong to Christ. If Christ is in you the body is dead because of sin, while the spirit lives because of justice. If the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you , then he who raised Christ from the dead will bring your mortal bodies to life also, through his Spirit dwelling in you.”

    Mk 16.17 “Signs like this will follow those who have professed their faith. They will use My Name to expel demons, they will speak entirely new languages, they will be able to handle serpents, they will be able to drink deadly poison without harm, and the sick upon whom they lay their hands will recover”

    Acts 2 38″..then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It was to you and your children that the promise was made, and to all those still far off whom the Lord calls”

    THe Spirit is still available to God's children.
    The Spirit is essential to salvation .
    The Spirit is essential if we are to be in the first resurrection
    The Spirit does God's works of power still.

    #4318
     NickHassan 
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    Hi ,
    As a perfect vessel for the Spirit of God only Jesus fully expressed the nature and abilities of God. Only he showed all the Fruits and all the Gifts of the Spirit. These fruits and gifts are the heart and hands of God on earth, the grace of God. In him the fullness of deity resided in bodily form.

    We have no record of Jesus praying in tongues but it is likely he did so when he sought his Father's will in prayer when he went alone into the country as this gift is used to upbuild and pray beyond our understanding for our needs.

    The other vessels ,the disciples and apostles, showed all of these graces in varying levels of beauty as they ,together formed the body of Christ on earth.

    Peter showed enormous faith and healing ability. He taught with wisdom and led by example. He laid hands on converts for them to receive the Spirit and pastored the flock. He understood the value of suffering and spoke of it ofen in his letters. But his knowledge had to be corrected by Paul.

    John was the outstanding example of Love. He showed that perfect love drives out all fear as he rested his head on his master at the last supper and was the only disciple standing on Calvary when Jesus died. His books are full of the word love.

    James fully understood truth and his book is simple and straight to the point with no messing around. He is the chilli sauce on the gospel with no compromise or favouritism.

    Matthew, Mark and Luke showed the evidence of the Holy Spirit promise in Jn 14-16 of perfect recall of the words and actions of Jesus but no mention of healing or other powers.
    Phillip listened to the Spirit and evangelised but did not lay on hands leaving that work to others.

    Paul, the perfectionist Pharisee, strived mightly to express every work of God in truth and knowledge. But even he had difficulties relating to Barnabas and Mark at times as his tolerance was stretched.

    None were complete as all needed the rest of the body to let the body function on earth as God had designed.

    #4361
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,
    The Father is never seen in scripture on earth because He is never on earth. His throne is in heaven.

    The Holy Spirit is never seen in scripture in heaven. That is because the Spirit does not have a separate existence there. it is the Spirit of God that filled Jesus and God pours out a portion of on men as Peter quoted Joel in Acts 2.17f

    The Spirit is one in men also and reveals the nature and will of God to men. All who receive this gift have different aspects and roles as only as one do they fulfill the work of the Body of Christ on earth. God's spirit teaches and can be grieved in us. God does not control our actions but can if we submit to His spirit and that is what he wants.[gal 5.25]

    #4384
     t8 
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    When we are one with God and with regards to Jesus being one with his Father and them being in each other. Are we one in spirit or Spirit. Is it the Spirit that makes us one, or is it spirit as in unity of purpose that we are one?

    God's Holy Spirit or unity of purpose? Perhaps unity of purpose can only be obtained in God's Spirit. After all the Church of God is made up of living stones filled with his Spirit.

    1 Peter 2:5
    you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

    #4385
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,
    I love the building concept. We have our own building which rises on the foundation stone of Jesus[1 peter 2. 6-8], has deep foundations on the rock of the word [Mt 7 24]and has the virtues added as described in 2 Peter 1 .5-8.
    It goes with the church building in Eph 2.20
    ” You form a building which rises on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone . Through him the whole structure is fitted together and takes shape as a holy temple in the Lord: in him you are being built into this temple to become a dwelling place for God in the Spirit”
    Rev 21.9.f shows the New Jerusalem with the 12 apostles names written on the foundation stones as Jesus had told Peter in in mt 16.18.
    Jeus prayed that we would be one as he is one with th Father in jn 17. That unity is in the Spirit and in devotion to the Word. But who is totally submitted to the Spirit? None of us. Who is also totally consecrated to the truth of the Word?Few of us. Those are the things that give us true unity but it has to be worked for too.
    He also prayed that we would be guarded from the evil one whose mischief making could destroy and divide the church.

    #4413
     t8 
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    An amazing book to read, giving revelation on the church is the The Shepherd of Hermas.

    The Shepherd of Hermas was one of the most popular books produced in the early Church, and for a time it was frequently quoted and regarded as inspired.

    The text of the Shepherd has not been well preserved. Only 3 incomplete Greek manuscripts and a number of small fragments have been discovered.

    https://heavennet.net/writings/hermas.htm

    The book is definately the shepherd of Hermas's own words, but the interesting part is when he describes the vision given to him. The theme seems to be the understanding of the church as a building made by God.

    This could lead to some interesting dialogue and we could start up a new discussion for it.

    #4414
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,
    I presume you mean the third vision about the building of the tower. It ia amazing. It ties together so much about the importance of baptism and the graces of the Spirit. The importance of teaching and sharing and being amenable to learning. Thanks very much. Bless you.

    #4415
     t8 
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    Yeah Vision III.

    I should read it again, it has been a while.

    #4680
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,
    I guess the oneness between the Father and Son is in 'spirit'[will]and in the Holy Spirit.

    In 1 John the Holy Spirit is spoken of in all these ways.

    Spirit of God.
    Spirit of truth.
    His Spirit.
    The Spirit.
    The anointing.
    His seed.
    He who is in you.
    God abiding in us.

    The Spirit is eternal life.It is the living water.

    #4691
     t8 
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    Our physical bodies are mainly comprised of water and our spiritual bodies of spirit I suppose.

    It is also interesting how water can become one and flow together. Maybe it is like that with spirit. We can become one, but we still retain our identity as our identity is not spirit.

    Also the Father is an identity and he is the Spirit. I think some people get confused about oneness with God. If Jesus is one with God then he is one with him in spirit and this is why we can also be one with each other and also with God and his Christ.

    We are one in spirit but we are who we are. We retain our identities. I exist therefore I am.

    #4692
     NickHassan 
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    Sure t8,
    So the unity between the Father and the Son is not so much to do with similarity but agreement? We know the Son is the reflection of the Father's glory and the exact representation of the Father's being.
    But if you looked at your self in the mirror your image would look exactly like you would exactly mimic you but that similarity and mimicry would mean nothing. It would be like empty puppetry with no value in that agreement.
    If you had an identical twin he would look like you and think like you in some ways but there the similarity would end you would go your separate ways and have individual pursuits and ideals.
    Not only does the Son closely resemble the Father but they are absolutely united in purpose. The Son could have challenged the Father [phil 2] as did Satan [Ez 28]but he chose the utterly faithful servant role.
    He was rewarded such that no human family can understand the total trust and love they enjoy with each other.I know the love of some great human families that gives me a glimpse of the love between the Father and Son but it cannot compare with theirs.
    They share the same heart and mind in all things and yet are still individual.

    #4712
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,
    Yes our identity is not our spirit or our body but our soul surely. It is that soul that sleeps while the body becomes corrupt when we die.
    Likewise we share in the Spirit of Jesus on earth while his identity is in heaven with the Father.

    #4985
     NickHassan 
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    Hi,
    The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. In some versions of the bible the Spirit is personified as “He” or “Him” and “His” -in fact abouit 16 times in Jn 14-16. But in fact I understand that is not correct as the word used would be better as “it”
    Personifying the word gives the impression that the Spirit is a person separate from the Father and so many were lead to believe in a third person of a trinity God.
    If you search the Word The Father is enthroned in heaven and the Spirit is only expressed on earth.The Father has never been on earth .The Spirit is only expressed in men such as Jesus, the Prophets and the believers of the New Testament.The Spirit is one with God but expresses the Power and Nature of God among men.
    The Spirit filled Jesus and was given to his brothers on earth only after he has risen to glory.
    Jn 7.38f “.. 'From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water' But this he spoke of the Spirit, whom those who had believed in him, were to receive:for the Spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified”
    The Father could have filled men with His Spirit prior to Jesus death but somehow the fact that it was the Spirit of Jesus mattered to God. Can anyone explain this?

    #4986
     Anonymous
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    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2004,02:40)
    The Father has never been on earth .


    If this is true then how do you explain Gen 3:8, 18:1….

    #4987
     NickHassan 
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    Welcome guest,
    What is your idea of the Father? Does he need to plant gardens himself when He has thousands of servant messengers to do His work?
    He is Spirit, and no man has seen Him, is clear from scripture so what makes it likely that the visitors to Abraham were divine? In every other visitation to men the visitors were angels.

    #5010
     Anonymous
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    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2004,03:23)
    Welcome guest,
    What is your idea of the Father? Does he need to plant gardens himself when He has thousands of servant messengers to do His work?
    He is Spirit, and no man has seen Him, is clear from scripture so what makes it likely that the visitors to Abraham were divine? In every other visitation to men the visitors were angels.


    Thats all fine and well Nick but when God uses an angel to do His callings, the Bible specifies as such:

    Quote
    7 The angel of the LORD found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, “Hagar, servant of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?”

    “I'm running away from my mistress Sarai,” she answered.

    9 Then the angel of the LORD told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” 10 The angel added, “I will so increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count.”

    11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:

    There is nothing in Genesis 3 or 18 to suggest it was anyone but God Himself. By interpretting it as an angel when the text doesn't record that aren't you doing a couple of things that you accuse others of doing:

    1. Teaching an obscure meaning and ignoring the obvious one.
    2. Applying MAN MADE reasoning.

    Don't think im having a go at you Nick, I think you have been writing one or two good posts lately. I simply can't agree with you on this one.

    Shalom

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