- This topic has 6,304 replies, 115 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 4 months ago by
.
- Posts
When we are one with God and with regards to Jesus being one with his Father and them being in each other. Are we one in spirit or Spirit. Is it the Spirit that makes us one, or is it spirit as in unity of purpose that we are one?
God's Holy Spirit or unity of purpose? Perhaps unity of purpose can only be obtained in God's Spirit. After all the Church of God is made up of living stones filled with his Spirit.
1 Peter 2:5
you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.Hi t8,
I love the building concept. We have our own building which rises on the foundation stone of Jesus[1 peter 2. 6-8], has deep foundations on the rock of the word [Mt 7 24]and has the virtues added as described in 2 Peter 1 .5-8.
It goes with the church building in Eph 2.20
” You form a building which rises on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone . Through him the whole structure is fitted together and takes shape as a holy temple in the Lord: in him you are being built into this temple to become a dwelling place for God in the Spirit”
Rev 21.9.f shows the New Jerusalem with the 12 apostles names written on the foundation stones as Jesus had told Peter in in mt 16.18.
Jeus prayed that we would be one as he is one with th Father in jn 17. That unity is in the Spirit and in devotion to the Word. But who is totally submitted to the Spirit? None of us. Who is also totally consecrated to the truth of the Word?Few of us. Those are the things that give us true unity but it has to be worked for too.
He also prayed that we would be guarded from the evil one whose mischief making could destroy and divide the church.An amazing book to read, giving revelation on the church is the The Shepherd of Hermas.
The Shepherd of Hermas was one of the most popular books produced in the early Church, and for a time it was frequently quoted and regarded as inspired.
The text of the Shepherd has not been well preserved. Only 3 incomplete Greek manuscripts and a number of small fragments have been discovered.
https://heavennet.net/writings/hermas.htm
The book is definately the shepherd of Hermas's own words, but the interesting part is when he describes the vision given to him. The theme seems to be the understanding of the church as a building made by God.
This could lead to some interesting dialogue and we could start up a new discussion for it.
Hi t8,
I presume you mean the third vision about the building of the tower. It ia amazing. It ties together so much about the importance of baptism and the graces of the Spirit. The importance of teaching and sharing and being amenable to learning. Thanks very much. Bless you.Hi t8,
I guess the oneness between the Father and Son is in 'spirit'[will]and in the Holy Spirit.In 1 John the Holy Spirit is spoken of in all these ways.
Spirit of God.
Spirit of truth.
His Spirit.
The Spirit.
The anointing.
His seed.
He who is in you.
God abiding in us.The Spirit is eternal life.It is the living water.
Our physical bodies are mainly comprised of water and our spiritual bodies of spirit I suppose.
It is also interesting how water can become one and flow together. Maybe it is like that with spirit. We can become one, but we still retain our identity as our identity is not spirit.
Also the Father is an identity and he is the Spirit. I think some people get confused about oneness with God. If Jesus is one with God then he is one with him in spirit and this is why we can also be one with each other and also with God and his Christ.
We are one in spirit but we are who we are. We retain our identities. I exist therefore I am.
Sure t8,
So the unity between the Father and the Son is not so much to do with similarity but agreement? We know the Son is the reflection of the Father's glory and the exact representation of the Father's being.
But if you looked at your self in the mirror your image would look exactly like you would exactly mimic you but that similarity and mimicry would mean nothing. It would be like empty puppetry with no value in that agreement.
If you had an identical twin he would look like you and think like you in some ways but there the similarity would end you would go your separate ways and have individual pursuits and ideals.
Not only does the Son closely resemble the Father but they are absolutely united in purpose. The Son could have challenged the Father [phil 2] as did Satan [Ez 28]but he chose the utterly faithful servant role.
He was rewarded such that no human family can understand the total trust and love they enjoy with each other.I know the love of some great human families that gives me a glimpse of the love between the Father and Son but it cannot compare with theirs.
They share the same heart and mind in all things and yet are still individual.Hi t8,
Yes our identity is not our spirit or our body but our soul surely. It is that soul that sleeps while the body becomes corrupt when we die.
Likewise we share in the Spirit of Jesus on earth while his identity is in heaven with the Father.Hi,
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. In some versions of the bible the Spirit is personified as “He” or “Him” and “His” -in fact abouit 16 times in Jn 14-16. But in fact I understand that is not correct as the word used would be better as “it”
Personifying the word gives the impression that the Spirit is a person separate from the Father and so many were lead to believe in a third person of a trinity God.
If you search the Word The Father is enthroned in heaven and the Spirit is only expressed on earth.The Father has never been on earth .The Spirit is only expressed in men such as Jesus, the Prophets and the believers of the New Testament.The Spirit is one with God but expresses the Power and Nature of God among men.
The Spirit filled Jesus and was given to his brothers on earth only after he has risen to glory.
Jn 7.38f “.. 'From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water' But this he spoke of the Spirit, whom those who had believed in him, were to receive:for the Spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified”
The Father could have filled men with His Spirit prior to Jesus death but somehow the fact that it was the Spirit of Jesus mattered to God. Can anyone explain this?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2004,02:40) The Father has never been on earth .
If this is true then how do you explain Gen 3:8, 18:1….Welcome guest,
What is your idea of the Father? Does he need to plant gardens himself when He has thousands of servant messengers to do His work?
He is Spirit, and no man has seen Him, is clear from scripture so what makes it likely that the visitors to Abraham were divine? In every other visitation to men the visitors were angels.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2004,03:23) Welcome guest,
What is your idea of the Father? Does he need to plant gardens himself when He has thousands of servant messengers to do His work?
He is Spirit, and no man has seen Him, is clear from scripture so what makes it likely that the visitors to Abraham were divine? In every other visitation to men the visitors were angels.
Thats all fine and well Nick but when God uses an angel to do His callings, the Bible specifies as such:Quote 7 The angel of the LORD found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, “Hagar, servant of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?” “I'm running away from my mistress Sarai,” she answered.
9 Then the angel of the LORD told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” 10 The angel added, “I will so increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count.”
11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:
There is nothing in Genesis 3 or 18 to suggest it was anyone but God Himself. By interpretting it as an angel when the text doesn't record that aren't you doing a couple of things that you accuse others of doing:
1. Teaching an obscure meaning and ignoring the obvious one.
2. Applying MAN MADE reasoning.Don't think im having a go at you Nick, I think you have been writing one or two good posts lately. I simply can't agree with you on this one.
Shalom
Hi guest,
The problem is with other scriptures that say
Jn 1.18″ No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father. He has explained Him”
1Tim 6.16 “He is the blessed and only ruler , the King of Kings and lord of Lords who alone has immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no human being has ever seen or can see”
1Jn 4.12″ No one has ever seen God, yet if we love one another God dwells in us”3 scriptures is a pretty good witness to this truth that no man has seen God-or can see God, or even can approach God. The being with the two angels was seen by Abraham. He had the appearance of a man. He had feet and needed rest, he walked and talked with Abraham and ate food.
The Old and New Testaments are full of references to God's throne being in heaven.
” Is 66.1..The heavens are my throne, the earth is my foostool”
Jesus said in Mt 34 ” Do not swear by heaven[it is God's throne]”
Ps 11.4,45.6,47.8, 103.19, Acts 7.49 and Hebrews 8.1 attest to this truth also.So something has to give here as scripture is always true.
We know that the angel of the Lord is a fearful being such that Gideon feared he would die when he saw him in Judges 6.
We know that in Revelation it describes even some angels as terrifying beings.[eg 10.1]
We know the angel of the Lord speaks for God.
We know that God uses angels for his errands on earth such as announcing the news about her future pregnancy to Mary.God is Spirit, Jesus tells us, and there are no scriptures to say God has ever lived in flesh himself. Since this would be bigger news than anything else in the bible is not there an unnatural silence about it in the Word?
If God has already appeared on earth why is this not a greater event than the arrival of God's Son?
cont,
When Solomon built the temple was it for God to dwell there?
This is what he said in 2 Chr 6.18
” But will God indeed dwell with mankind on the earth? Behold heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built…..That thine eyes may be open toward this house day and night, toward the place which thou hast said that thou wouldst put thy name there, to listen to the prayer which thy servant shall pray toward this place…Hear thou from thy dwelling place, from heaven”
Each of us is a house built by God and we too cannot contain God.
what do you think?Yes Jesus himself taught that no man can see God and when scriptures talk about a man seeing God, it is God's glory that they are seeing. That glory is often light or a divine being clothed in light sent to represent the invisible God, such as the Angel of the Lord.
However this eternal God who cannot be fully contained within any finite boundary (especially a body) certainly lives inside his people and of course primarily in his son. But I assume that he dwells in them by his Spirit. But as Nick pointed out, not even the whole of creation can contain God.
John 14:9
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?John 17:23
I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.God is in Christ and Christ is in God. God and his Christ are inside his people. It is by the Spirit of God that we are one. One in Spirit, many in soul/identity.
Quote (Guest @ Dec. 21 2004,22:09) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 21 2004,02:40) The Father has never been on earth .
If this is true then how do you explain Gen 3:8, 18:1….
Genesis 3:8
Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden.First off I would say that the Lord doesn't walk unless he is inside a being that walks. For God is Spirit. I can only assume that the being that God was in, was his son. That is my guess. Anyone have another view?
John 14:20
On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.2 Samuel 22:10-12
10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness was under his feet.
11 And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind.
12 And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies.Here we can see YHWH flying. On the wings of the angel.
Hi t8,
How is the Holiday?
We see it written that Adam HEARD the sound of the Lord God walking, and talking. It does not say SAW the Lord God though.
The scripture from 2 Sam of course refers to the Return of Jesus as rescuer of the Jews and King of the Earth-as agent again for his Father. That day is called a Day of Clouds.
Ps 97″ The Lord is King ;let the earth rejoice, let the many isles be glad.Clouds and darkness are around him, justice and judgement are the foundation of his throne. Fire goes before him and consumes his foes around him and lightnings illumine the world ;the earth sees and trembles, the mountains melt like wax before the Lord, before the Lord of all the earth”
Ps 1034.3 “He makes the clouds his chariot”
Jl 2.1″..,. for the Day of the Lord is coming ;yes it is near , a day of darkness and of gloom, a day of clouds and sombreness”
Zeph 1.15″ A day of clouds and thick darkness”
Mt 24.30″ You will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven”
Rev 1.7″ See here he comes amid the clouds..”
There are many more too so this is an important sign I feel associated with great earthquakes and fire.Quote (digger @ July 11 2004,19:22) Question: The Spirit with no PERSONAL NAME If the Holy spirit is the third person in a trinity why does the Holy Spirit not possess a personal name after all the Father has a personal name:
The Holy spirit is considered by many to be the divine feminine. The Holy spirit (wisdom) and the divine feminine are inexplicably linked; they are considered by many to be one and the same:Prov. III: 13-18:
13: Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
14: For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.
15: She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
16: Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
17: Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
18: She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.Note: It goes on…..
But where do we go to find textual evidence that the Holy Spirit (in the origins of Christianity) was considered feminine?
The Siniatic Palimpsest (4th or 5th century) The words of Jesus in John 14:26 read:
>>
But She -the Spirit – the Paraclete whom He-will-send to you- my Father – in my name – She will teach you every thing; she will remind you of that which I have told you.
>>
Say unto Wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman. (Proverbs 7:4)
But you asked. “why no personal name”
Sophia is found throughout the wisdom literature in the Bible. There are references to “Her” in the book of Proverbs. Sophia is the wisdom incarnate (the Goddess of all those who are wise)
Hi D.A,
Of course Wisdom is contrasted with the enticement of the whore .The blessing contrasted with the curse.The Spirit is a portion of the Spirit of God poured out among christians to help them. As man is helped by woman-dunno?
The Spirit comforts, teaches, empowers and reveals secrets and the future. The Spirit prays for us to the Father about needs we do not know we have. The Spirit reminds us we are saved and will raise our bodies at the return of Jesus.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
