John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 15,421 through 15,440 (of 26,009 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #369005
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Feb. 02 2014,20:26][/quote]

    Quote
    No man has been in heaven but *He* that came down from heaven.That *He* is Jesus.

    Terraricca,

    OF COURSE NOT!

    MICHAEL WAS NEVER A MAN IN HEAVEN, MICHAEL WAS A SPIRIT! THE HIGHEST SPIRIT UP TO THAT MOMENT IN TIME!
    THE PRINCE OF HEAVEN!

    BUT HE WAS A MAN IN JOHN ON EARTH FOR SURE!

    THE FACT THAT GABRIEL SAID THAT JOHN WOULD BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT FROM HIS MOTHER'S WOMB, BUT JOHN'S SPIRIT WAS MICHAEL, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS IN FULL WITHIN MICHAEL'S SPIRIT!

    THE HOLY SPIRIT WOULD ONLY ABIDE IN A SPIRIT BEING, BUT NOT DIRECTLY IN A SOUL

    ONLY THE WORD ABIDES ETERNALLY IN A SOUL!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #369006
    carmel
    Participant

    Wakeup,

    Sorry, and thanks

    Most probably due to reading past posts to gain time and work,

    #369013
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ Feb. 02 2014,06:02)
    [quote=Wakeup,Jan. 28 2014,15:28][/quote]

    Quote
    I must corrrect; if He speaks wrong.

    Terraricca,

    WHO ARE YOU TO DECIDE WHAT'S RIGHT AND WHAT'S WRONG IN GOD'S MATTERS?

    I never said that you were wrong, HAVE I?

    I CONTRADICTED YOU YES AND ALSO EXPLAINED AS FAR AS I AM CAPABLE OF, AND I KEEP ON EXPLAINING TILL I AM CONVINCED THAT YOU DID UNDERSTAND ME! LIKE I AM DOING.

    BUT ,WHEN I AM SURE THAT YOU UNDERSTOOD ME THAT'S THE END OF ME, SO HONESTLY SPEAKING I AM SURE THAT SOMEHOW I AM NOT BEING UNDERSTOOD ENOUGH BY MANY ON HEAVEN NET!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles


    Carmel.

    I know that you have tried hard to explain
    your piont of view.
    It is very important stay with scripture,without going
    out of the line.
    Here is some good advice. Dont go for the scribes and
    parisees of today,for they are all against Christ.

    They are the wolves in sheeps clothing.
    Interpreting the scriptures not make it easier to understand
    but to cause divisions amongst the believers.
    And to cause confusion. Watch terefore.

    Dont ignore this warning.
    1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even
    ***now are there many antichrists***;
    whereby we know that it is the last time.
    That was two thousand years ago. What about now?

    wakeup.

    #369015
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (carmel @ Feb. 01 2014,13:31)
    JESUS BEGUILED SATAN THAT JESUS WAS THE ANTICHRIST!


    So you think the kiss was a REAL kiss – given with warmth and love – because Satan/Judas was beguiled into thinking he was literally kissing his friend, the antichrist?

    I really don't know what to say, Charles. You are so far off into left field that you can't see home plate anymore.

    The kiss wasn't a sincere act of love, Charles. It was a sign that Judas had worked out with the others before hand. It was a betrayal by Judas of his rabbi – not a matter of someone being tricked into thinking Jesus was the antichrist.

    None of the three scriptures you posted say anything about Satan being “blindfolded” by Jesus.

    How do you expect us to willingly eat the entire meal you've prepared, when it is clear to us that the very first bite has been poisoned?

    #369022
    Wakeup
    Participant

    MikeB.

    Amongst the mafia gang.
    They always kiss the one chosen to be killed.
    It is the kiss of death.

    wakeup.

    #369023
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Yes Wakeup,

    But it surely wasn't a case of Satan believing Jesus was the antichrist, and kissing him out of sincere love and loyalty – or whatever.

    I don't know where Charles comes up with most of the doctrines he preaches. Certainly not from any scriptures.

    #369085
    carmel
    Participant

    wakeup.[/quote]
    [quote=Wakeup,Feb. 02 2014,00:49][/quote]

    Quote
    John recognised Jesus right away because of the same spirit in them.
    John dwelleth in the wilderness,and lived on locusts.

    Wakeup,

    THROUGHOUT SCRIPTURE THERE ARE LOADS WHO WHERE BORN THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT, NOT JUST JESUS AND JOHN!

    I WOULD ANALYSE AND POST

    JOHN’S BIRTH,

    GABRIEL’S ANNOUNCMENTS

    AND JESUS BIRTH! SO YOU WOULD HAVE A CLEAR PICTURE OF WHAT IS TRUTH!

    SO LET’S ANALYZE JOHN’S BIRTH FIRST!

    Luke 1: 13But the angel said to him: Fear not, Zachary, for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elizabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John:

    Genesis 15:4 And immediately the word of the Lord came to him, saying: He shall not be thy heir: but he that shall come out of thy bowels, him shalt thou have for
    thy heir.

    NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE!

    TO ABRAHAM, GOD MADE IT CLEAR THAT OUT HIS BOWELS COMES HIS SON!

    GABRIEL TO ZACHARIAS SAID THAT HIS WIFE WOULD BEAR HIM A SON, NOT YOUR SON

    SO ABARAHAM SINCE HE WAS SEM’S DEESCENDANT, THEREFORE BLESSED BY NOAH, WAS THE HOLY SEED FOR THE MESSIAH!

    Luke 1:18And Zachary said to the angel: Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife is advanced in years.

    NOTICE: I AM AN OLD MAN, ABRAHAM WAS 99 YEARS OLD, SO WHAT WAS THE REASON THAT ZACHARY SAID SO!

    OBVIOUS! ZACHARY WAS NOT TO SUPPLY THE SEED, HE WAS UNABLE TO HAVE INTERCOURSE BUT GOD HIMSELF WOULD CONCEIVE ELIZABETH THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT, WITHOUT ANY INTERCOURSE AT ALL. WE WOULD KNOW WHY, BUT NOT IN THIS POST

    SO THE WIFE WAS TO GIVE BIRTH TO JOHN ! SO THAT WAS THE REASON THAT ZACHARY DID NOT BELIEVE, BECAUSE THEY GAVE UP SEX RELATIONS!

    MORE:

    Luke 1:58And her neighbours and her cousins heard how the Lord had shewed great mercy upon her; and they rejoiced with her.

    NOTICE ZACHARY IS NOT PART OF ELIZABETH’S MERCY, SHE WAS ON HER OWN IN THIS GRACE, IF ZACHARY HAD INTERCOURSE, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN INVOLVED, AND THE MERCY WOULD HAVE BEEN FOR BOTH, HIM AND HER!

    60And his mother answering, said: Not so; but he shall be called John. 61 And they said to her: There is none of thy kindred that is called by this name.

    EVEN HIS UNIQUE NAME SHE PRONOUNCED! OBVIOUS SHE WAS FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT,SO JOHN WAS NOT ABRAHAM’S SEED LIKE JESUS WAS , BUT A SEED FROM GOD, THROUGH THE HOLY GHOST

    NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE OK! THIS IS THE FIRST REASON THAT JESUS CALLED JOHN THAT THERE’S NO ONE GREATER THEN JOHN  WHO IS BORN OF A WOMAN! UP TO NOW!

    IT DOES IN NO WAY MEAN THAT JOHN WAS GREATER THEN JESUS! BUT HE WAS! IN A PARTICULAR WAY WHICH I WOULD APPRECIATE IF YOU WERE TO REFLECT AND DISCOVER YOUSELF!

    SO ELIZABETH IS THE FOCAL POINT THROUGHOUT!

    WHEN YOU REFLECT IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT THIS PROCESS WAS USED, THAT ZACHARY WAS NOT INVOLVED, SIMPLY TO BE SIMILAR TO JESUS! BOTH BY THE HOLY SPIRIT ,BUT STILL NOT THE SAME!

    SO THE MESSAGE WAS THAT GOD ALTHOUGH THE WOMAN FROM EVE WAS A SATANIC ELEMENT, STILL ACHIEVED TO GIVE BIRTH TO A PERFERCT MAN LIKE JOHN! AND THERE WAS NO ONE GREATER THEN HIM!

    NOW LET’S SEE WHAT SARA SAID WHEN SHE GAVE BIRTH TO ISACC!

    And again she said: Who would believe that Abraham should hear that Sara gave suck to a son,  whom she bore to him in his old age.

    OK ABARAHAM IS EMPHATICALLY THE FOCAL POINT NOT SARA! SINCE IT WAS THROUGH HIS BOWELS! THE SEED OF THE MESSIASH!

    SO ALTHOUGH THEY WERE BOTH CONCEIVED THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT,, LIKE MANY OTHER BIRTHS THROUGHOUT SCRIPTURE, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO REGADING JESUS’RECOGNITION BY JOHN!!

    ALSO IT WAS NOT THE SAME SEED!

    IN FACT THE PROCESS WAS OPPOSITE IN MANY ASPECTS AS WE WOULD SEE BUT

    IN THE NEXT POST  WHERE WE WOULD ANALYSE GABRIEL’S ANNOUNCEMENT!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #369096
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Carmel.

    Quote

    THROUGHOUT SCRIPTURE THERE ARE LOADS WHO WHERE BORN THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT, NOT JUST JESUS AND JOHN!

    SO LET’S ANALYZE JOHN’S BIRTH FIRST!
    Luke 1: 13But the angel said to him: Fear not, Zachary, for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elizabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John:
    Genesis 15:4 And immediately the word of the Lord came to him, saying: He shall not be thy heir: but he that shall come out of thy bowels, him shalt thou have for
    thy heir.

    NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE!

    TO ABRAHAM, GOD MADE IT CLEAR THAT OUT HIS BOWELS COMES HIS SON!
    GABRIEL TO ZACHARIAS SAID THAT HIS WIFE WOULD BEAR HIM A SON, NOT YOUR SON
    SO ABARAHAM SINCE HE WAS SEM’S DEESCENDANT, THEREFORE BLESSED BY NOAH, WAS THE HOLY SEED FOR THE MESSIAH!
    Luke 1:18And Zachary said to the angel: Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife is advanced in years.
    NOTICE: I AM AN OLD MAN, ABRAHAM WAS 99 YEARS OLD, SO WHAT WAS THE REASON THAT ZACHARY SAID SO!
    OBVIOUS! ZACHARY WAS NOT TO SUPPLY THE SEED, HE WAS UNABLE TO HAVE INTERCOURSE BUT GOD HIMSELF WOULD CONCEIVE ELIZABETH THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT, WITHOUT ANY INTERCOURSE AT ALL. WE WOULD KNOW WHY, BUT NOT IN THIS POST
    SO THE WIFE WAS TO GIVE BIRTH TO JOHN ! SO THAT WAS THE REASON THAT ZACHARY DID NOT BELIEVE, BECAUSE THEY GAVE UP SEX RELATIONS! Luke 1:58And her neighbours and her cousins heard how the Lord had shewed great mercy upon her; and they rejoiced with her.
    NOTICE ZACHARY IS NOT PART OF ELIZABETH’S MERCY, SHE WAS ON HER OWN IN THIS GRACE, IF ZACHARY HAD INTERCOURSE, HE WOULD HAVE BEEN INVOLVED, AND THE MERCY WOULD HAVE BEEN FOR BOTH, HIM AND HER!
    60And his mother answering, said: Not so; but he shall be called John. 61 And they said to her: There is none of thy kindred that is called by this name.
    EVEN HIS UNIQUE NAME SHE PRONOUNCED! OBVIOUS SHE WAS FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT,SO JOHN WAS NOT ABRAHAM’S SEED LIKE JESUS WAS , BUT A SEED FROM GOD, THROUGH THE HOLY GHOST
    NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE OK! THIS IS THE FIRST REASON THAT JESUS CALLED JOHN THAT THERE’S NO ONE GREATER THEN JOHN  WHO IS BORN OF A WOMAN! UP TO NOW!

    IT DOES IN NO WAY MEAN THAT JOHN WAS GREATER THEN JESUS! BUT HE WAS! IN A PARTICULAR WAY WHICH I WOULD APPRECIATE IF YOU WERE TO REFLECT AND DISCOVER YOUSELF!

    SO ELIZABETH IS THE FOCAL POINT THROUGHOUT!

    WHEN YOU REFLECT IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT THIS PROCESS WAS USED, THAT ZACHARY WAS NOT INVOLVED, SIMPLY TO BE SIMILAR TO JESUS! BOTH BY THE HOLY SPIRIT ,BUT STILL NOT THE SAME!

    SO THE MESSAGE WAS THAT GOD ALTHOUGH THE WOMAN FROM EVE WAS A SATANIC ELEMENT, STILL ACHIEVED TO GIVE BIRTH TO A PERFERCT MAN LIKE JOHN! AND THERE WAS NO ONE GREATER THEN HIM!

    NOW LET’S SEE WHAT SARA SAID WHEN SHE GAVE BIRTH TO ISACC!

    And again she said: Who would believe that Abraham should hear that Sara gave suck to a son,  whom she bore to him in his old age.

    OK ABARAHAM IS EMPHATICALLY THE FOCAL POINT NOT SARA! SINCE IT WAS THROUGH HIS BOWELS! THE SEED OF THE MESSIASH!

    SO ALTHOUGH THEY WERE BOTH CONCEIVED THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT,, LIKE MANY OTHER BIRTHS THROUGHOUT SCRIPTURE, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO REGADING JESUS’RECOGNITION BY JOHN!!

    ALSO IT WAS NOT THE SAME SEED!

    IN FACT THE PROCESS WAS OPPOSITE IN MANY ASPECTS AS WE WOULD SEE BUT  

    IN THE NEXT POST  WHERE WE WOULD ANALYSE GABRIEL’S ANNOUNCEMENT!

    Carmel.

    Elizabeth was married to zachary.
    Are you saying that God did break His own law?
    You shalt not commit adultery.

    John's father is Zachary.(born by promise).
    Jesus Father is God. (born by the will of God).
    Isaac's father is Abraham.(born by promise).

    There is none else,except Adam was made by the will of God.

    wakeup.

    #369097
    Wakeup
    Participant

    It did not come out as I imagine it will be.

    The above is carmel's quote,and the last part was my answer.

    Hope is not confusing.

    wakeup.

    #369099
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Feb. 04 2014,04:04].[/quote]

    Quote
    Elizabeth was married to zachary.
    Are you saying that God did break His own law?
    You shalt not commit adultery.

    John's father is Zachary.(born by promise).
    Jesus Father is God. (born by the will of God).
    Isaac's father is Abraham.(born by promise).

    There is none else,except Adam was made by the will of God.

    Wakeup,

    YOUR ARGUMENT IS STUPID, AND NONSENSE!

    with the same argument:

    GOD IN ORDER TO HAVE HIS SON, COMMITTED ADULTERY, SINCE MARY WAS A VIRGIN!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #369100
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 03 2014,11:11)
    It did not come out as I imagine it will be.

    The above is carmel's quote,and the last part was my answer.

    Hope is not confusing.

    wakeup.


    Fixed. :)

    #369101
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Feb. 04 2014,04:04][/quote]

    Quote
    John's father is Zachary.(born by promise).
    Jesus Father is God. (born by the will of God).
    Isaac's father is Abraham.(born by promise).

    Wakeup,

    John's father is Zachary.(born by promise).  BY THE HOLY GHOST
    Jesus Father is God. (born by the will of God) BY THE HOLY GHOST.
    Isaac's father is Abraham.(born by promise). BY THE HOLY GHOST

    JOHN'S FATHER WAS USELESS, as I proved! HE WAS NOT CONSUMING HIS MARRIAGE, THEREFORE HE AND HIS WIFE WERE NOT MARRIED IN THE TRUTH!

    ELIZABETH WAS USELESS, CALLED BARREN AND OLD, SHE WAS NOT GOOD FOR ANYTHING NEVER MIND BRING FORTH CHILDREN!

    And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in[B] her old age; and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren: 37 Because no word shall be impossible with God.

    THAT'S NOT ADULTERY!

    ADULTERY ACCORDING TO MOSES LAW IS A SEXUAL ACT BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN,OUTSIDE OF MARRIAGE!

    THERE WERE NO SEXUAL ACT!

    THERE WAS NEITHER MAN NOR WOMAN MANIFESTING ANY SEXUAL ACT WHEN JOHN WAS CONCEIVED! ONLY THE HOLY GHOST!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #369128
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Carmel.

    FOR AN OLD COUPLE TO HAVE A CHILD BY PROMISE IS WHEN GOD PERFORMED A MIRRACLE,IT'S BY HIS POWER.

    ISAAC WAS NOT BORN WITH THE HOLY GHOST SINCE BIRTH. BUT JOHN WAS;AND JESUS.

    wakeup.

    #369302
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 02 2014,00:49)
    [/quote]
    [quote=Wakeup,Feb. 02 2014,00:49]


    Quote
    John recognised Jesus right away because of the same spirit in them.
    John dwelleth in the wilderness,and lived on locusts.

    Wakeup,

    DID JOHN HAD HIS NAPPY ON?

    LET’S ANALYSE GABRIEL’S ANNOUNCEMENTS NOW!

    Luke 1:15 For he shall be great before the Lord; and shall drink no wine nor strong drink: and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb

    GABRIEL  ANNOUNCED JOHN’S BIRTH TO ZACHARY, A HIGH PRIEST NOT TO HIS WIFE ELIZABETH! WHY? WHAT WAS THE REASON, AFTER ALL  ELIZABETH WAS TO GIVE BIRTH TO JOHN.

    IN THE CASE WITH MARY HE DID THE OPPOSITE HE TOLD HER  BUT NOT TO JOSEPH, AND HE TOLD JOSEPH THROUGH A DREAM ONLY  BECAUSE HE REJECTED MARY!

    ALSO HE OPTED TO ANNOUNCE IT IN THE HOLY OF HOLIES!  

    AGAIN OPPOSITE TO MARY’S! HE SPOKE TO HER IN HER ROOM!

    SCRIPTURE

    21And the people waited for Zacharias, and marvelled that he tarried SO LONG in the temple.

    THEY BECAME SUSPICIOUS THAT SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY HAPPENED! THE FIRST INDICATION WHY THE PRIEST WAS CHOSEN, AND ALSO THE CIRCUMSTANCES!

    22And when he came out, he could not speak unto them:
    and they perceived that he had seen a vision in the temple: for he beckoned unto them, and remained speechless.

    THE FIRST SIGNIFICANT AND VITAL SIGN

    THE JEWS REQUIRE SIGNS

    ALSO IT WAS THE FIRST SIGN FOR SATAN TO BE ON THE WATCH AND DISCOVER WHAT WAS GOING ON, ON HIS  SUPPOSED PLANET.

    MORE SCRIPTURE!

    65And fear came upon all their neighbours; and all these things were noised abroad over all the hill country of Judea. 66And all they that had heard them laid them up in their heart, saying: What manner of child shall this be! And the hand of the Lord was with him.

    AS YOU CAN READ GABRIEL’S INTENTIONS WERE TO MAKE JOHN’S BIRTH EXTREMELY EXPOSED!  WHILE KEPT JESUS’COMPLETELY THE OPPOSITE, HIDDEN!

    SO THE ACTUAL REASON TO INVOLVE THE HIGH PRIEST WAS TO SPREAD THE NEWS  IN NO TIME!

    WHAT FOR UNLESS TO MAKE IT SEEMS THAT THE CHRIST WAS ABOUT TO BE BORN!

    WHAT MANNER OF CHILD SHALL THIS BE! AND THE HAND OF THE LORD WAS WITH HIM!

    NO GREATER MAN THAN JOHN, WAS EVER BORN OF A WOMAN ! THE FIRST EVER MOST HOLY MAN IN FLESH AND BLOOD ON EARTH!
    WHEN HE WAS BORN, HE WAS THE GREATEST CREATURE ON EARTH, GREATER THAN SATAN, AND THE GREATEST CREATUFRE IN HEAVEN!

    OTHER BIRTHS WERE ANNOUNCED THROUGHOUT SCRIPTURES BUT  NONE OF THEM WERE SIMILAR IN BOTH CASES! REVEALED AND HIDDEN!

    IN THE ANNOUNCEMENT GABRIEL MADE IT CLEAR THAT JOHN MUST NOT DRINK WINE OR STRONG DRINKS!

    NOT THE SAME REGARDING JESUS, THOUGH THE SON OF GODSO JESUS WAS ALLOWED TO DO AS HE FEELS FIT, IN FACT JESUS ADMITTED THAT HE DRANK AND ATE, AND I TAKE IT THAT JESUS DID THIS PURPOSELY MORE THEN HE SHOULD SINCE HE MENTIONED IT, WHAT WAS WRONG BY EATING AND DRINKING, IF IT WAS NOT EXCESSIVE! IN FACT THEY CALLED HIM  A GLUTTON AND DRUNKARD!

    IT IS QUITE ODD WHY SATAN DID NOT IN ANY WAY INTERVENE AND, OR HARM JOHN OR HIS FAMILY CONSIDERRING THE FACT THAT JOHN PHYSACILLY DEFINITELY  OWNED ALL CHRIST’S CREDENTIALS BEFORE HIS BIRTH, AND ONLY JOHN HIMSELF HAD TO ADMIT THAT HE WAS NOT THE CHRIST!

    OBVIOUS! BECAUSE JOHN'S BIRTH DEFINITELY WAS NOT WITHIN SATAN’S JURISDICTION!

    FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT BOTH ELIZABETH AND ZACHARY WERE USELESS REGARDING CHILDREN IN RELATION TO WORLDLY WISDOM THOUGH, BECAUSE FOR GOD ALL IS POSSIBLE, SO JOHN’S BIRTH HAD TO BE PURPOSELY SUPERNATURAL, OUT OF THIS WORLD, GOD’S INTERVENTION, SO  HE WAS NOT  OF THE GENERATIONS OF EARTH, ABRAHAM’S SEED, BUT OF THE GENERATION OF HEAVEN, PURE GOD’S SEED!

    CAN YOU DISCERN THE REASON?

    READ:

    SATAN COULD NOT POSSESS JOHN’S SOUL, LIKE HE HAD  THE RIGHT TO DO  CONCERNING EARTHLY HUMAN FIRSTBORNS! THE GENERATIONS OF EARTH, THEREFORE  SUBJECTS TO EARTHLY NATURAL LAWS! SATAN’S, HIS GRIP ON SOULS! JESUS’ PREFERENCE IN ORDER TO ERADICATE SATAN!

    NO GREATER MAN THAN JOHN, WAS EVER BORN OF A WOMAN !

    GOT IT NOW!

    JOHN HAD THE ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY OVER SATAN TO REMOVE HIM FROM SOULS! THROUGH HIS WATER BAPTISM ! SIMPLY BECAUSE HE WAS IN NO WAY UNDER HIS JURISDICTION!

    JESUS OPTED TO BE SO THOUGH IN ORDER TO BE SATAN'S SUBJECT AND DESTROY HIM THROUGH HIS OWN VITAL ASSET! DEATH!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #369303
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Feb. 04 2014,10:47][/quote]

    Quote
    ISAAC WAS NOT BORN WITH THE HOLY GHOST SINCE BIRTH. BUT JOHN WAS;AND JESUS.  

    Wakeup,

    READ HEREUNDER :

    Galatians 3:16To Abraham were the promises made and to his seed. He saith not, And to his seeds, as of many:

     BUT AS OF ONE, AND TO YOUR SEED, WHICH IS CHRIST

    HAPPY NOW?

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #369310
    Wakeup
    Participant

    I agree with that Carmel.

    wakeup.

    #370809
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Feb. 07 2014,09:25][/quote]

    Quote
    I agree with that Carmel.

    Wakeup,

    I SAID IN PREVIOUS POSTS NOT JUST TO SHOOT WORDS,BEFORE YOU MAKE SURE THEY ARE THE TRUTH

    Quote
    John recognised Jesus right away because of the same spirit in them.
    John dwelleth in the wilderness,and lived on locusts.

    Wakeup,

    NOW, IN MY PREVIOUS TWO POSTS, I EXPANDED ON :

    GABRIEL FOR GOD!

    ZACHARIAS JOHN’S FATHER

    ELI ZA  BETH JOHN’S MOTHER ??? From the Hebrew Elisheba, SIGNIFIES GOD IN SATISFACTION. HE DEFINITELY WAS WITH JOHN!

    JOHN’S SPIRIT    MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL

    and

    JOHN        MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL IN FLESH AND BLOOD!

    SO LIKEWISE, REGARDING JESUS’ BIRTH ANNOUINCEMENT,AND HIS BIRTH I WOULD EXPAND ON:

    GOD              JESUS’ FATHER

    MARY          JESUS’ MOTHER

    JESUS’ SPIRIT THE WORD

    and

    JESUS THE WORD MADE FLESH  

    NOW WHAT WOULD BE JUSTIFIED, IF NOT POSTING TWO POSTS IN ORDER TO DISCUSS OUR LORD, JESUS CHRIST?

    DO YOU AGREE?

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #370810
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Carmel.

    No I dont agree with your analysis of John.

    John 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

    John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

    John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

    John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    John 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, ***He that cometh after me is preferred before me***: ***for he was before me***.

    John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    John 1:27 He it is, who coming after me ***is preferred before me***, ***whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose***.

    Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

    Because John Had the Holy spirit since conception.
    Not the other prophets.

    wakeup.

    #370825
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Feb. 10 2014,01:33][/quote]

    Quote
    No I dont agree with your analysis of John.

    Wakeup,

    NOT JUST SAY THAT YOU DON'T AGREE WITHOUT SHOWING WHERE AND CONTRADICT ME WITH SCRIPTURES!

    I AM ALL AWARE OF ALL THE SCRIPTURES YOU POSTED BY HEART

    I MYSELF POSTED THOSE VERSES AND EXPLAINED WHAT THEY MEAN, BUT YOU NEVER CONTRADICTED ME BY USING SCRIPTURES!

    YOU SIMPLY SAID YOUR OPINION, AND THAT YOU DON'T AGREE WITH OR RATHER YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID I DON'T BELIEVE WHICH YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DO SO,

    BUT THAT DOES NOT CONFIRM THAT YOU ARE SAYING THE TRUTH AND I AM NOT!

    YOU SEEMED THAT I AM NOT ACCORDING TO THOSE SCRIPTURES BY POSTING THOSE VERSES!

    SO PIN POINT WHERE YOU DON'T AGREE WITH AND CONTRADICT ME!

    BY DOING SO YOU ARE MISGUIDING!

    SHOW ME WHERE I SAID SOMETHING WHICH IS  NOT IN AGREEMENT  WITH THOSE VERSES, UNLESS WE ARE MISUNDERSTANDING EACH OTHER!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #370827
    carmel
    Participant

    WAKEUP,

    I HAVE PROVEN TO YOU THAT GABRIEL'S INTENTION WAS TO PROCLAIM JOHN'S BIRTH THROUGHOUT ISRAEL AND THE NEARBY COUNTRIES AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, WHILE REGARDING JESUS' BIRTH HE PURPOSELY KEPT IT HIDDEN!

    WHAT FOR UNLESS TO MISGUIDE SATAN THAT JOHN WAS THE CHRIST?

    THIS IS CONFIRMED BY JOHN HIMSELF WHEN HE DECLARED THAT HE WAS NOT THE CHRIST!

    I SHOWED YOU AS WELL THAT EVEN AFTER HIS DEATH HE WAS STILL BELIEVED THAT HE WAS RAISED FROM HIS DEATH?

    WHILE IN THE SAME TIME I SHOWED YOU THAT JESUS WAS REJECTED AS THE CHRIST!

    THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE, AND EVEN UP TO THIS DAY, BY THE JEWS! LUCIFER'S ELEMENTS!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

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