John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 15,401 through 15,420 (of 26,009 total)
  • Author
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  • #368858
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (carmel @ Jan. 30 2014,14:13)
    FIRST!That's your worldly wisdom, which for God is FOOLISHNESS!


    I thought we discussed this, Charles.  I though we agreed that you were NEVER going to use the “It doesn't have to make sense because God's ways aren't our ways” card again.

    The scriptures are written for HUMAN BEINGS to understand, Charles.

    I skimmed your huge post, and didn't find one thing that would explain why John would ASK if Jesus was the Messiah to come, since he apparently already knew he was.

    Quote
    JOHN SENT HIS PEOPLE TO JESUS FIRST TO ALLOW JESUS HIMSELF TO CONFIRM THROUGH HIS OWN MOUTH WHOM HE WAS……..


    Why then did Jesus send them back TO John with the answer?

    Was that just more of the mind games designed to be understood by mere humans with small brains, while at the same time baffling the enormous brain of Satan?   ???

    #368869
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Carmel.

    Preachers always use long stretching speaches,
    and when finished have said nothing of substance.

    Quote
    WHY AND IN WHAT WAS JOHN MORE PERFECT THEN JESUS! IN HIS MOTHER’S WOMB!
    WAS HE REFERRING TO THE PHYSICAL STATE?
    TO THE SPIRIT STATE? OR BOTH?

    How can you say that John is more perfect than the only begotten Son of God? The Word of God? He created John and his mother,and everything.
    It was John in his mothers whomb that greated Jesus by leaping. Not Jesus leaping,but John.

    John was killed for one reason only.
    Just before Jesus started teaching.

    Matthew 14:3 For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife.

    Matthew 14:4 For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her.

    Matthew 14:5 And when he would have put him to death, he feared the multitude, because they counted him as a prophet.

    Matthew 14:6 But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod.

    Matthew 14:7 Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask.

    Matthew 14:8 And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, Give me here John Baptist's head in a charger.

    wakeup.

    #368870
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 31 2014,11:39)

    Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2014,18:54)
    Angels can materialise as many have,for a time period.


    So tell me what happened in the case of Balaam and the donkey.  Did the angel materialize two different times, in two different ways?


    Mikeb.

    In that situation; the angel opened the eyes of the donky,and the the eyes of Balaam.
    The angel did not materialise.
    In the case of Abraham and Lot; the angels did materialise.
    They ate and drank,and spend time together.

    wakeup.

    #368876
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=mikeboll64,Jan. 31 2014,11:49][/quote]

    Quote
    AGAIN TO MAKE US AWARE THAT SATAN WAS BLINDFOLDED, OR SCEPTICAL WHO THE MESSIAH REALLY WAS THROUGH THE WHOLE WORK BY JOHN AND JESUS, WHOEVER HAVE EARS LET HIM HEAR!

    Luke 8:18 Take heed therefore how you hear. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given: and WHOSOEVER HATH NOT,THAT ALSO WHICH HE THINKETH HE HATH, SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY FROM HIM.
       

    Mike, and Wakeup,

    YOUR FOOLISHNESS HAS BLINDED YOU TO THE EXTENT, THAT YOU ARE NOT PERCEIVING WHAT A CHILD COULD CHEW!

    READ AND CHEW FIRST THEN SWALLOW!

    DO YOU KNOW THE MEANING OF THE WORD BLINDFOLDED

    I POSTED:

    AGAIN TO MAKE US AWARE THAT SATAN WAS BLINDFOLDED, OR SCEPTICAL WHO THE MESSIAH REALLY WAS THROUGH THE WHOLE WORK BY JOHN AND JESUS, WHOEVER HAVE EARS LET HIM HEAR!

    Luke 8:18 Take heed therefore how you hear. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given:

    and WHOSOEVER HATH NOT,THAT ALSO WHICH HE THINKETH HE HATH, SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY FROM HIM.

    JESUS CHRIST BLINDFOLDED SATAN

    THIS IS THE FIRST ANSWER, NOW WAIT FOR THE REST !

    I AM GOING TO POST THEM ONE AFTER THE OTHER TO GIVE YOU TIME TO CHEW THEM! I HOPE YOU HAVE TEETH!

    NO MIKE NOT REAL TEETH, YOU FOOL WITH EVERY RESPECT BUT GOD'S GIVEN TEETH FOR SPIRITUAL FOOD

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #368886
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Carmel.

    Make sure you back it up with scriptures,
    for any strange doctrine that we
    have never heard before.
    Most scriptures we know.

    wakeup.

    #368903
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Jan. 31 2014,15:38][/quote]

    Quote
    How can you say that John is more perfect than the only begotten Son of God?  

    Wakeup,

    Read:

    Amen I say to you,

    there hath not risen among them that are born of women a greater than John the Baptist

    NOW EXPLAIN WHAT THIS MEANS:

    THERE ARE NONE GREATER THEN JOHN WHO WAS BORN OF WOMEN!

    JESUS WAS BORN OF WOMAN! NO? UNLESS SHE WASN'T!

    HOW COME THEN JESUS IS NOT EVEN AS GREAT AS JOHN?

    SO IN WHAT JESUS WAS NOT GREATER THEN JOHN?

    IN THE PHYSICAL STATE?

    IN THE SPIRIT STATE?

    OR IN BOTH SPIRIT AND PHYSICAL STATE?

    SCRIPTURE PRODUCED THE ANSWER FOR THE ABOVE, GO AHEAD FIND IT!

    NOW TO THE NEXT ONE!

    yet HE that is the lesser in the kingdom of heaven IS greater than he

    EXPLAIN:

    HE THAT IS THE LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN,

    WHO IS THIS LEAST ONE?

    AND IN THE SAME TIME GREATER THEN JOHN!

    NOW TO REMIND YOU JOHN STATED:

    This is he, of whom I said: After me there cometh a man, who is PREFERRED before me: because he WAS before me.

    WHO IS JOHN THEN SINCE HE DECLARED THAT JESUS WAS PREFERRED BEFORE,AND ALSO EXISTED BEFORE HIM?

    SINCE HE COMPARED HIMSELF WITH JESUS, THEREFORE HE WAS MICHAEL! THE HIGHEST ANGEL, THE PRINCE OF HEAVEN!

    ONLY HIM WAS ENTITLED TO BE THE MESSIAH APART FROM JESUS!

    AND ONLY HIM WAS SUPERIOR TO SATAN!

    THEREFORE ONLY HIM HAD THE AUTHORITY TO REMOVE SATAN'S SPIRIT FROM JESUS' SOUL!

    SO TO REPEAT:

    WHO IS GREATER THAN MICHAEL IN HEAVEN?

    DEFINITELY JESUS CHRIST!

    CAN YOU TELL ME NOW WHY JESUS DECLARED THAT HE WAS THE LESSER IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN?

    NOW THE ABOVE IN NO WAY DECLARING THAT JESUS WAS REALLY LESS THEN JOHN, SINCE HE ALSO DECLARED THAT HE AS THE LESSER IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, IS GREATER THEN JOHN!

    BUT NOW BOTH YOU AND MIKE WITH YOUR WORLDLY WISDOM MUST FIND THE ANSWER IN SCRIPTURE?

    WHY SHOULD I SUPPLY IT SINCE YOU STILL NEED MILK, AND ARE NOT READY FOR THE MEAT, WHICH YOU CONFIRMED THROUGH YOUR POSTS!

    Quote

    Matthew 14:3   For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife.

     Matthew 14:4   For John said unto him, It is not lawful for thee to have her.

     Matthew 14:5   And when he would have put him to death, he feared the multitude, because they counted him as a prophet.

     Matthew 14:6   But when Herod's birthday was kept, the daughter of Herodias danced before them, and pleased Herod.

     Matthew 14:7   Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask.

     Matthew 14:8   And she, being before instructed of her mother, said, Give me here John Baptist's head in a charger.

    THE ABOVE IS THERE FOR THE BLIND!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #368909
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Carmel.

    Quote
    Amen I say to you,
    there hath not risen among them that are born of women a greater than John the Baptist
    NOW EXPLAIN WHAT THIS MEANS:
    THERE ARE NONE GREATER THEN JOHN WHO WAS BORN OF WOMEN!
    JESUS WAS BORN OF WOMAN! NO? UNLESS SHE WASN'T!
    HOW COME THEN JESUS IS NOT EVEN AS GREAT AS JOHN?
    SO IN WHAT JESUS WAS NOT GREATER THEN JOHN?

    I agree that Jesus said that: but he was speaking of all the prophets. Jesus is not just a prophet,but He is the Messiah
    the king of all those prohets.He also created all women.
    He was in Spirit before the world was.
    It is his kindom in heaven,for all belongs to HIM.
    SO YOU HAVE GROSSLY MISUNDERSTOOD THAT STATEMENT.

    Quote

    IN THE PHYSICAL STATE?
    IN THE SPIRIT STATE?
    OR IN BOTH SPIRIT AND PHYSICAL STATE?
    SCRIPTURE PRODUCED THE ANSWER FOR THE ABOVE, GO AHEAD FIND IT!

    Physical or spiritual: All things are made for Jesus.
    HE can not be less than John,His own prophet.
    John was working for Jesus.

    Quote

    NOW TO THE NEXT ONE!
    yet HE that is the lesser in the kingdom of heaven IS greater than he

    .

    WHO DOES THE KINGDOM BELONG TO?
    IS IT NOT THE KING?
    THE WORD OF GOD WHO WAS MADE FLESH?

    Quote

    EXPLAIN:
    HE THAT IS THE LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, WHO IS THIS LEAST ONE?
    AND IN THE SAME TIME GREATER THEN JOHN!
    NOW TO REMIND YOU JOHN STATED:

    Yes; speaking of them in *HIS* own kingdom.
    Not speaking of HIMSELF.

    Quote

    This is he, of whom I said: After me there cometh a man, who is PREFERRED before me: because he WAS before me.
    WHO IS JOHN THEN SINCE HE DECLARED THAT JESUS WAS PREFERRED BEFORE,AND ALSO EXISTED BEFORE HIM?
    SINCE HE COMPARED HIMSELF WITH JESUS, THEREFORE HE WAS MICHAEL! THE HIGHEST ANGEL, THE PRINCE OF HEAVEN!
    ONLY HIM WAS ENTITLED TO BE THE MESSIAH APART FROM JESUS!
    AND ONLY HIM WAS SUPERIOR TO SATAN!
    THEREFORE ONLY HIM HAD THE AUTHORITY TO REMOVE SATAN'S SPIRIT FROM JESUS' SOUL!

    This is where you are totally messed up.
    Micha'el is working for the Word/Jesus.
    He belongs to HIM. All things are made by HIM and for HIM.
    Micha'el did not create anything,He is a creature himself,
    created by the Word.

    Quote

    SO TO REPEAT:
    WHO IS GREATER THAN MICHAEL IN HEAVEN?
    **DEFINITELY JESUS CHRIST**!
    CAN YOU TELL ME NOW WHY JESUS DECLARED THAT HE WAS THE LESSER IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN?

    Now you say that Jesus is greater than Micha'el???
    What was all that fuss about then?
    Micha'el,is ONE of the chief angels,working for the kingdom.
    God and His Word is the king and owner.

    Quote

    NOW THE ABOVE IN NO WAY DECLARING THAT JESUS WAS REALLY LESS THEN JOHN, SINCE HE ALSO DECLARED THAT HE AS THE LESSER IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, IS GREATER THEN JOHN!

    Jesus is not only greater than all,but all belongs to HIM.
    HE was speaking about HIS KINGDOM.

    Quote

    BUT NOW BOTH YOU AND MIKE WITH YOUR WORLDLY WISDOM MUST FIND THE ANSWER IN SCRIPTURE?
    WHY SHOULD I SUPPLY IT SINCE YOU STILL NEED MILK, AND ARE NOT READY FOR THE MEAT, WHICH YOU CONFIRMED THROUGH YOUR POSTS!

    Carmel: You think you have it all worked out correctly
    not knowing that you have got all the wires crossed.

    You have obviously not understood this statement.
    John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

    wakeup.

    #368915
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 31 2014,03:07)
    Carmel.

    Make sure you back it up with scriptures,
    for any strange doctrine that we
    have never heard before.
    Most scriptures we know.

    wakeup.


    Agreed, Wakeup.

    Charles, before we chew too far into the meal, why not first show us the SCRIPTURE that says Jesus “blindfolded” Satan.

    #368924
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 01 2014,11:00)

    Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 31 2014,03:07)
    Carmel.

    Make sure you back it up with scriptures,
    for any strange doctrine that we
    have never heard before.
    Most scriptures we know.

    wakeup.


    Agreed, Wakeup.

    Charles, before we chew too far into the meal, why not first show us the SCRIPTURE that says Jesus “blindfolded” Satan.


    MikeB.

    Carmel introduced those words to make his doctrine work.

    Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: ***and the dragon stood before the woman**** which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

    Satan was not blinded here was he?
    Carmel need some solid food.

    wakeup.

    #368937
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Feb. 01 2014,08:13][/quote]

    Quote
    Now you say that Jesus is greater than Micha'el???
    What was all that fuss about then?

    Wakeup,

    YOU NEED MILK!

    SORRY, WASTE OF TIME SINCE YOU ARE NOT READY TO REFLECT!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #368938
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Jan. 28 2014,08:28][/quote]
    Terraricca,

    Quote
    John recognised Jesus,but they have never met in person before.The dove is for God to show John, that he REALLY is the anointed one.

    I PROVED TO YOU THAT JOHN RECOGNIZED JESUS, AS THE SON OF GOD BEFORE THE DOVE WENT ON JESUS!
    SINCE HE SAID TO JESUS THAT JESUS OUGHT TO BAPTISE HIM RATHER! SO THEY KNEW EACH OTHER!
    AND HOW!

    SO I REPEAT:SORRY!

    YOU ARE PUZZLED ! AND HOW!SO!

    SCRIPTURES PLEASE! REGARDING YOUR POINT THAT THEY NEVER MET SINCE CHILDHOOD! PURE NONSENSE!

    SO SINCE IT IS QUITE CLEAR THAT JOHN KNEW HIM AS THE SON OF GOD BEFORE THE DOVE RESTED ON HIM, AND IT IS ALSO QUITE CLEAR THAT THE DOVE CAME, IN ORDER FOR THE PEOPLE PRESENT TO BE WITNESSES THAT JOHN WAS SAYING THE TRUTH

    MY STATEMENT STANDS!

    IF THE DOVE NEVER CAME, THEY, AND ALSO US WOULD NEVER BELIEVED THAT JESUS WAS THE MESSIAH, SINCE HE MADE IT MORE CLEAR THAT HE WAS A SINNER, DRUNKARD, ANTICHRIST,RATHER! OBVIOUS TO MISGUIDE SATAN

    THERE ARE NO DETAILED SCRIPTURES THAT JESUS LIVED A HOLY LIFE BEFORE THE MISSION, IN FACT THE OPPOSITE, SINCE AT THE AGE OF TWELVE:

    HE DISOBEYED STRICT ORDERS FROM HIS PARENTS, AND WENT TO THE TEMPLE GIVING THE BIGGEST EVER SHOCK TO HIS SORT OF PARENTS FOR THREE DAYS!

    WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TODAY TO THOSE PARENTS IF THEY LOSE A CHILD FOR THREE DAYS? NEVER MIND IN THOSE HORRIBLE EVIL DAYS OF THE ROMANS!

    IN ORDER TO REALIZE HOW GRAVE WAS THAT ACT YOU HAVE TO READ  JEWISH CULTURE OF THOSE DAYS AND HOW THEY USE TO TRAVEL IN GROUPS!

    SO JESUS DID IT PURPOSELY TO MISGUIDE SATAN, WHO JESUS REALLY WAS!

    ANSWER THIS NOW:

    IF A RELIGIOUS USE VIOLENCE TO DEFEND HIS RELIGION, WHAT WOULD HE HAVE DEMONSTRATED WITH HIS ACTION

    DO NOT BE AFRAID TO SAY THE TRUTH!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #368948
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ Feb. 01 2014,17:30)
    [quote=Wakeup,Jan. 28 2014,08:28][/quote]
    Terraricca,

    Quote
    John recognised Jesus,but they have never met in person before.The dove is for God to show John, that he REALLY is the anointed one.

    I PROVED TO YOU THAT JOHN RECOGNIZED JESUS, AS THE SON OF GOD BEFORE THE DOVE WENT ON JESUS!
    SINCE HE SAID TO JESUS THAT JESUS OUGHT TO BAPTISE HIM RATHER! SO THEY KNEW EACH OTHER!
    AND HOW!

    SO I REPEAT:SORRY!

    YOU ARE PUZZLED ! AND HOW!SO!

    SCRIPTURES PLEASE! REGARDING YOUR POINT THAT THEY NEVER MET SINCE CHILDHOOD! PURE NONSENSE!

    SO SINCE IT IS QUITE CLEAR THAT JOHN KNEW HIM AS THE SON OF GOD BEFORE THE DOVE RESTED ON HIM, AND IT IS ALSO QUITE CLEAR THAT THE DOVE CAME, IN ORDER FOR THE PEOPLE PRESENT TO BE WITNESSES THAT JOHN WAS SAYING THE TRUTH

    MY STATEMENT STANDS!

    IF THE DOVE NEVER CAME, THEY, AND ALSO US WOULD NEVER BELIEVED THAT JESUS WAS THE MESSIAH, SINCE HE MADE IT MORE CLEAR THAT HE WAS A SINNER, DRUNKARD, ANTICHRIST,RATHER! OBVIOUS TO MISGUIDE SATAN

    THERE ARE NO DETAILED SCRIPTURES THAT JESUS LIVED A HOLY LIFE BEFORE THE MISSION, IN FACT THE OPPOSITE, SINCE AT THE AGE OF TWELVE:

    HE DISOBEYED STRICT ORDERS FROM HIS PARENTS, AND WENT TO THE TEMPLE GIVING THE BIGGEST EVER SHOCK TO HIS SORT OF PARENTS FOR THREE DAYS!

    WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TODAY TO THOSE PARENTS IF THEY LOSE A CHILD FOR THREE DAYS? NEVER MIND IN THOSE HORRIBLE EVIL DAYS OF THE ROMANS!

    IN ORDER TO REALIZE HOW GRAVE WAS THAT ACT YOU HAVE TO READ  JEWISH CULTURE OF THOSE DAYS AND HOW THEY USE TO TRAVEL IN GROUPS!

    SO JESUS DID IT PURPOSELY TO MISGUIDE SATAN, WHO JESUS REALLY WAS!

    ANSWER THIS NOW:

    IF A RELIGIOUS USE VIOLENCE TO DEFEND HIS RELIGION, WHAT WOULD HE HAVE DEMONSTRATED WITH HIS ACTION

    DO NOT BE AFRAID TO SAY THE TRUTH!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles


    Carmel

    John recognised Jesus right away because of the same spirit in them.
    John dwelleth in the wilderness,and lived on locusts.
    And was in camel skin.
    Matthew 3:4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.

    The dove at baptism is a sign for John only,that Jesus is the one. So that is proof that john never met Jesus before.
    When the two met they instantly recognise each other
    because of the same spirit in them.

    Quote
    IF THE DOVE NEVER CAME, THEY, AND ALSO US WOULD NEVER BELIEVED THAT JESUS WAS THE MESSIAH, SINCE HE MADE IT MORE CLEAR THAT HE WAS A SINNER, DRUNKARD, ANTICHRIST,RATHER! OBVIOUS TO MISGUIDE SATAN
    THERE ARE NO DETAILED SCRIPTURES THAT JESUS LIVED A HOLY LIFE BEFORE THE MISSION, IN FACT THE OPPOSITE, SINCE AT THE AGE OF TWELVE:

    Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo,
    ***the heavens were opened unto him***,(John) and **HE** (john)
    saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

    Only John saw the sign. NOT THE CROWD.
    That sign is specifically for John.

    Jesus was a Lamb without blemish,so what are you on about?

    Jesus disobeyed his mother because he rather follow His Father in Heaven TO VISIT THE SYNAGOGUE.

    WHAT I SEE MY FATHER DO; THAT I DO.
    WHAT I HEAR MY FATHER SAY;THAT I SAY.

    REMEMBER JESUS SAYING; WHO IS MY MOTHER,AND WHO ARE MY SISTERS?

    HE CREATED THEM ALL.HE DOES NOT HAVE TO LISTEN TO ANY MAN OR WOMAN.

    BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD CARMEL.
    DO YOU HAVE A TEACHER? IF YOU DO, THEN RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN FROM HIM.

    wakeup.

    #368962
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Feb. 02 2014,00:49][/quote]

    Quote
    Only John saw the sign.  NOT THE CROWD.
    That sign is specifically for John.

    Wakeup,

    Read and reflect:

    MATTHEW 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan, unto John, to be baptized by him.

    14But John stayed him, saying: I ought to be baptized by thee, and comest thou to me?

    NOT ONE SIGN HAPPENED YET, SO JOHN ALREADY DECLARED THAT HE KNEW WHO JESUS WAS, HE THEREFORE NEVER NEEDED ANY PROOF, BUT THE ENEMIES OF CHRIST PRESENT,EXPECTED SINCE THEY WERE REGULARLY CALLING TO JOHN REGARDING WHAT HE WAS PREDICTING ABOUT JESUS, OR ELSE THEY WOULD NEVER ACCEPTED EVEN JOHN'S TESTIMONY  ONLY,WITHOUT SUPERNATURAL SIGNS! SOMETHING WHICH WAS COMMON IN THOSE DAYS ESPECIALLY REGARDING THE MESSIAH!

    MANY TIMES JESUS SAID TO THEM, THAT THEY WANTED SIGNS, AND EVEN PAUL SAID THAT THE JEWS REQUIRE SIGNS!

    SO HOW GOD WOULD NOT MAKE SIGNS TO THOSE WHO WHERE WAITING FOR SIGNS REGARDING HIS SON! IT WOULD CONTRADICT THE PROCESS ITSELF!
    CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT GOD MADE SIGNS WHEN HE WAS BORN!

    NOW READ THE TRUTH!

    16And Jesus being baptized, forthwith came out of the water:

    AFTER JOHN BAPTISED JESUS, AND AS SOON AS HE CAME OUT OF THE WATER! WHY AFTER NOT BEFORE!

    OBVIOUS BECAUSE SATAN WAS REMOVED FROM JESUS' SOUL AND WAS LOCKED IN HELL, AND JESUS BECAME CLEAN, OFFICIALLY THOUGH, BECAUSE JESUS WAS ALWAYS CLEAN, IMMACULATE! BUT HE BEGUILED SATAN, WHOM HE WAS!

    and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him.

    OK AGAIN AFTER NOT BEFORE IF IT WAS REALLY FOR JOHN

    TO KNOW WHO JESUS WAS, IN ORDER TO BAPTISE HIM IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED BEFORE! NO?

    SO THE DOVE, WAS FOR THE PEOPLE TO SEE THIS EXTRAORDINARY THING, AND JOHN WOULD ONLY HAVE TO DECLARE THAT IT WAS THE SPIRIT OF GOD THAT LANDED ON JESUS! NO ONE KNEW THAT THE DOVE WAS NOT A COMMON DOVE EXCEPT JOHN!

    THEN TO SEAL IT ONCE AND FOR ALL IN FRONT OF ALL THOSE PRESENT:

    17And BEHOLD A VOICE FROM HEAVEN, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased

    OF COURSE HE IS WELL PLEASED, AND HOW! OK!

    GOD HAS ESTABLISHED JUSTICE ON EARTH! THAT HE WAS GOD IN FLESH THROUGH JESUS!

    SATAN THROUGH THE ANTICHRIST WAS DREAMING TO ACHIEVE THIS ON EARTH, TO BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH!

    SO ALL THE PEOPLE SAW THE HEAVENS OPEN, THE DOVE, AND HEARD ALSO GOD'S VOICE !

    THERE ARE NO STATEMENTS THAT IT WAS ONLY JOHN THAT EXPERIENCED ALL THATWHY SHOULD HE, HE NEVER NEEDED REDEMPTION, IN THE SAME WAY LIKE WE NEED!

    IF IT WAS SO NO ONE WOULD HAVE BELIEVED TO DAY THAT JESUS WAS THE SON OF GOD, NEVER MIND GOD IN FLESH!

    JOHN WAS ONLY WAITING FOR THESE THINGS TO HAPPEN, IN ORDER TO DEFINE THEM!

    TO CONCLUDE !

    READ WHAT JESUS SAID REGARDING THAT EVENT:

    JOHN 5:37 And the FATHER HIMSELF who hath sent me, HATH GIVEN TESTIMONY :

    WITH THOSE WORDS, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased

    SO THEY SAW THE DOVE, THE HEAVENS OPEN, AND HEARD THOSE WORDS FROM THE FATHER!

    THESE EVENTS ARE VERY VITAL FOR THE TRUTH, AND ALSO IN ORDER TO PROVE MORE THEN ENOUGH WHO JESUS WAS, PUBLICALLY NOT HIDDEN LIKE HE WAS IN THE OT.

    IT HAD TO BE! THIS IS THE JUSTICE WHICH JESUS REFERRED TO!

    HE HAD TO REVEAL GOD ON EARTH! INCLUDING HIS SIGNS,  NOT TO JOHN THOUGH

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #368966
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Jan. 28 2014,08:28][/quote]

    Quote

    FROM THE ABOVE CONTEXT, JOHN WAS REFERRING TO MATTERS WITHIN HEAVEN'S REALM, WHEN JESUS, THE WORD THE SON'S SPIRIT, WAS STILL A MYSTERIOUS SPIRIT WITHIN CREATION!!!

    Now you are starting to go off track.
    The Word is the Son: and the spirit of God is in Him
    in full.

    Terraricca,

    WHAT OFF TRACK?

    FOR YOU YES,

    SINCE EITHER YOU CANNOT PERCEIVE, OR UNDERSTAND!

    OR ELSE IT IS NOT THAT EASY FOR ME TO EXPLAIN WHAT I PERCEIVE!

    SO I REPEAT IN A MORE DEFINED WAY!

    WHEN JOHN WAS REFERRING TO THE ONE WHO SENT HIM, HE WAS REFERRING TO GOD! NO?

    SO HE WAS TALKING ABOUT HEAVENLY REALM MATTERS! NO?

    HE WAS ALSO NOT JOHN YET!

    NOW I BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT JOHN, FOR ARGUMENT SAKE,WAS WALKING IN THE DESERT, AND GOD SPOKE TO HIM REGARDING HIS MISSION! IF THAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING, MINE ISN'T!

    SO HE WAS STILL A SPIRIT BEING AND SERVING GOD IN HEAVEN!

    SO  HE ENTERED JOHN ON  CONCEPTION, THE REASON THAT HE WAS CONCEIVED BY AND FULL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT! HIS MOTHER WAS A VERY OLD AND BARREN WOMAN! THEREFORE SHE WAS CONCEIVED NOT THROUGH LUST OF THE FLESH, BUT THROUGH GOD!  

    ONE OF THE REASON THAT JESUS STATED THAT JOHN WAS GREATER THEN HIM IN A PARTICULAR WAY!

    WHICH YOU STILL ARE NOT AWARE OF IT, AND WHICH YOU OUGHT TO HAVE BEEN BY NOW! BUT YOU ARE NOT READY TO REFLECT ENOUGH ON IT!

    THEREFORE SINCE HE RECEIVED ORDERS FROM GOD WHEN HE WAS STILL IN HEAVEN ,HE WAS AN ARCHANGEL, AND THE ONLY ARCHANGEL WHO WAS SUPERIOR TO SATAN WAS MICHAEL!

    SO, WHERE WAS THE WORD, IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME THAT JOHN WAS RECEIVING ORDERS FROM HEAVEN BY GOD TO BAPTISE, JESUS,  AS EXPLAINED ABOVE,

    OBVIOUS THE WORD WAS  STILL  A SPIRIT, OBVIOUS AS WELL THE SON'S SPIRIT WHO LEFT THE FATHER TO CREATE ALL, BUT SINCE WITHIN HIM HE HAD THE TRIUNE GOD, THEREFORE THE FULL POWER OF GOD IN THE SON'S SPIRIT! HE WAS CALLED THE WORD AND SINCE HE WAS CALLED THE WORD OBVIOUS HE WAS STILL HIDDEN WORKING WITHIN CREATION! IN ORDER TO BECOME THE WORD IN FLESH

    I HOPE IT'S  CLEAR ENOUGH!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #368967
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Jan. 28 2014,08:28][/quote]

    Quote
    When Gods plan is finalised on earth; and in the new heavens and earth. God will also dwell on earth,and we shall see His face.We all be as the angels: spirit creatures,and we can see spirit creatures.(rev.21).

    Terraricca,

    all the above is a reference to JESUS CHRIST ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD WHEN THE ALMIGHTY SPIRIT STATE WITHOUT ANY KIND OF SHAPE, COLUR, IMAGE, AND SO ON, WOULD BE IN JESUS CHRIST'S UNIQUE BODY

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST

    PAUL MENTIONED THIS WHEN HE STATED:

    And when all things shall be subdued unto him,

    then the Son also himself shall be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

    HOW? OBVIOUS BECAUSE THE SON'S SPIRIT WOULD RETURN  IN THE FATHER WERE HE WAS FROM ETERNITY, AND THE FATHER WOULD REPLACE HIM IN HIS JESUS BODY

    BUT NOT BEFORE  ALL CREATURES WOULD ACCEPT THAT JESUS CHRIST IS GOD GLORIFIED IN FLESH BODY!

    SO ONCE HIS ENEMIES ACCEPT THIS, AS THE ONLY ABSOLUTE TRUTH, THEN THE FATHER WOULD OWN JESUS CHRIST'S BODY!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #368968
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Jan. 28 2014,08:28][/quote]

    Quote

    NONSENSE you are completely lost!
    ONLY MARY WAS CREATED TO CARRY JESUS' SPIRIT IN HER WOMB! THE SON OF GOD! GOD IN FLESH! AND ALSO THE SPOUSE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT! THEREFORE FULL OF GRACE, AND FULL OF SPIRIT!
    ELIZABETH WAS NOT SINLESS! HOW ON EARTH COULD SHE EVER CARRY BOTH JESUS' AND JOHN'S SPIRIT! YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND!

    Luke 1:13   But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

    Luke 1:14   And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

    Luke 1:15   For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost,
               **even from his mother's womb**.

    Luke 1:41   And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the
              *babe leaped in her womb*;
      and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

    Terraricca,

    THE ABOVE IS ONLY A REFERENCE TO THE HOLY GHOST, NOT TO THE WORD!

    THE HOLY GHOST IS NOT THE WORD, OR THE WORD  MADE FLESH

    THE WORD IS THE TRIUNE GOD IN THE SON'S SPIRIT!

    SO ELIZABETH COULD IN NO WAY HAVE CARRIED WITHIN HER WOMB THE TRIUNE GOD!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #368969
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Jan. 28 2014,15:28][/quote]

    Quote
    I must corrrect; if He speaks wrong.

    Terraricca,

    WHO ARE YOU TO DECIDE WHAT'S RIGHT AND WHAT'S WRONG IN GOD'S MATTERS?

    I never said that you were wrong, HAVE I?

    I CONTRADICTED YOU YES AND ALSO EXPLAINED AS FAR AS I AM CAPABLE OF, AND I KEEP ON EXPLAINING TILL I AM CONVINCED THAT YOU DID UNDERSTAND ME! LIKE I AM DOING.

    BUT ,WHEN I AM SURE THAT YOU UNDERSTOOD ME THAT'S THE END OF ME, SO HONESTLY SPEAKING I AM SURE THAT SOMEHOW I AM NOT BEING UNDERSTOOD ENOUGH BY MANY ON HEAVEN NET!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #368970
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=mikeboll64,Feb. 01 2014,11:00][/quote]

    Quote
    Charles, before we chew too far into the meal, why not first show us the SCRIPTURE that says Jesus “blindfolded” Satan.  

    Mike,

    These are the first three!

    since you hate reading long manifestos!

    Luke 22:3 And Satan entered into Judas, who was surnamed Iscariot, one of the twelve.

    22:48 And Jesus said to him: Judas, dost thou betray the Son of man with a kiss?

    NOW REFLECT:

    JUDAS IS NO LONGER JUDAS, BUT SATAN IN JUDAS' BODY!

    NOW EXPLAIN TO ME!

    HOW ON EARTH SATAN KISSED JESUS?

    COULD THIS THINK EVER REALLY HAPPENED?

    UNLESS JESUS BEGUILED SATAN THAT JESUS WAS THE ANTICHRIST!

    Mark 14:51 51And a certain young man followed him, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and they laid hold on him. 52But he, casting off the linen cloth, fled from them naked

    WHO WAS THIS NUDE YOUNG MAN WHO FOLLOWED JESUS, OR FROM SATAN'S POINT OF VIEW, THE ANTICHRIST, AND RAN AWAY WHEN THEY TRIED TO TAKE HIM?

    YES MIKE THEY ARE QUITE TO CHEW, SO CHEW!

    Peave and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #369002
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Carmel.

    You have gotten yourself into a web of your own
    spinning.

    Quote

    WHEN JOHN WAS REFERRING TO THE ONE WHO SENT HIM, HE WAS REFERRING TO GOD! NO?[/QUPOTE]

    Agree. The Holy spirit from God.

    Quote

    SO HE WAS TALKING ABOUT HEAVENLY REALM MATTERS! NO?

    John was NOT sent from heaven down to earth.
    Where did you get that idea from? He started in his mothers
    belly.No man has been in heaven but *He* that came down from heaven.That *He* is Jesus.

    Quote

    HE WAS ALSO NOT JOHN YET!
    NOW I BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT JOHN, FOR ARGUMENT SAKE,WAS WALKING IN THE DESERT, AND GOD SPOKE TO HIM REGARDING HIS MISSION! IF THAT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING, MINE ISN'T!

    Not so: the angels spoke to mum and dad.
    saying they will conceive.
    The Holy spirit was with John since conception.

    Quote

    SO HE WAS STILL A SPIRIT BEING AND SERVING GOD IN HEAVEN!
    SO HE ENTERED JOHN ON CONCEPTION, THE REASON THAT HE WAS CONCEIVED BY AND FULL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT! HIS MOTHER WAS A VERY OLD AND BARREN WOMAN! THEREFORE SHE WAS CONCEIVED NOT THROUGH LUST OF THE FLESH, BUT THROUGH GOD!

    The Holy Spirit is in heaven,but John is not yet .
    He is still in dad's bag.
    John had the Holy spirit since consception.
    He was not conceive of lust, for elizabeth was also old.
    But conceived by promise that she will have a child.

    Quote

    ONE OF THE REASON THAT JESUS STATED THAT JOHN WAS GREATER THEN HIM IN A PARTICULAR WAY!

    Jesus never said this ignorant thing.
    This is in your dream. Jesus was speaking of His children,
    Not of Himself.

    Quote

    WHICH YOU STILL ARE NOT AWARE OF IT, AND WHICH YOU OUGHT TO HAVE BEEN BY NOW! BUT YOU ARE NOT READY TO REFLECT ENOUGH ON IT!

    You are making things up brother.
    Jesus is: Everlasting Father,Mighty God,Prince of peace.
    And you are comparing Him to his servant John??

    [QIOTE]
    THEREFORE SINCE HE RECEIVED ORDERS FROM GOD WHEN HE WAS STILL IN HEAVEN ,HE WAS AN ARCHANGEL, AND THE ONLY ARCHANGEL WHO WAS SUPERIOR TO SATAN WAS MICHAEL!

    What you say? This is serious what you are saying here. Elisabeth's son was the angel Micha'el??
    What bible are you reading?
    Micha'el the arc angel has nothing to do with John's birth.
    But the Holy Spirit. Micha'el has His own task to do.

    Quote

    SO, WHERE WAS THE WORD, IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME THAT JOHN WAS RECEIVING ORDERS FROM HEAVEN BY GOD TO BAPTISE, JESUS, AS EXPLAINED ABOVE,

    As Jesus was baptised at 30 years of age; but already spoke of God since a young boy. John must have been driven into the desert by the Holy spirit at the age of 30. He also died a young man.For his work; what He is send to do is done.

    Quote

    OBVIOUS THE WORD WAS STILL A SPIRIT, OBVIOUS AS WELL THE SON'S SPIRIT WHO LEFT THE FATHER TO CREATE ALL, BUT SINCE WITHIN HIM HE HAD THE TRIUNE GOD, THEREFORE THE FULL POWER OF GOD IN THE SON'S SPIRIT! HE WAS CALLED THE WORD AND SINCE HE WAS CALLED THE WORD OBVIOUS HE WAS STILL HIDDEN WORKING WITHIN CREATION! IN ORDER TO BECOME THE WORD IN FLESH

    You have gotten yourself into a web of your own making.

    It is this simple.
    The Word: the creator sitting next to God; not his Father,
    but his God,because God has always control over his own Word. What God wants;His Word does it.

    Then God send Him down to be humbled; and made into flesh. The Word was transformed into a man.
    NON OF THIS APPLIES TO JOHN.

    wakeup.

    #369003
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ Feb. 02 2014,06:02)
    [quote=Wakeup,Jan. 28 2014,15:28][/quote]

    Quote
    I must corrrect; if He speaks wrong.

    Terraricca,

    WHO ARE YOU TO DECIDE WHAT'S RIGHT AND WHAT'S WRONG IN GOD'S MATTERS?

    I never said that you were wrong, HAVE I?

    I CONTRADICTED YOU YES AND ALSO EXPLAINED AS FAR AS I AM CAPABLE OF, AND I KEEP ON EXPLAINING TILL I AM CONVINCED THAT YOU DID UNDERSTAND ME! LIKE I AM DOING.

    BUT ,WHEN I AM SURE THAT YOU UNDERSTOOD ME THAT'S THE END OF ME, SO HONESTLY SPEAKING I AM SURE THAT SOMEHOW I AM NOT BEING UNDERSTOOD ENOUGH BY MANY ON HEAVEN NET!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles


    Carmel.

    Dont confuse me with Terra.
    I am wakeup the good looking one.
    Terrra is the ugly looking one.
    The freckled one,and full of pimples.
    And grumpy.

    wakeup.

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