John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 15,441 through 15,460 (of 26,009 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #370845
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ Feb. 10 2014,03:38)
    [quote=Wakeup,Feb. 10 2014,01:33][/quote]

    Quote
    No I dont agree with your analysis of John.

    Wakeup,

    NOT JUST SAY THAT YOU DON'T AGREE WITHOUT SHOWING WHERE AND CONTRADICT ME WITH SCRIPTURES!

    I AM ALL AWARE OF ALL THE SCRIPTURES YOU POSTED BY HEART

    I MYSELF POSTED THOSE VERSES AND EXPLAINED WHAT THEY MEAN, BUT YOU NEVER CONTRADICTED ME BY USING SCRIPTURES!

    YOU SIMPLY SAID YOUR OPINION, AND THAT YOU DON'T AGREE WITH OR RATHER YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID I DON'T BELIEVE WHICH YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DO SO,

    BUT THAT DOES NOT CONFIRM THAT YOU ARE SAYING THE TRUTH AND I AM NOT!

    YOU SEEMED THAT I AM NOT ACCORDING TO THOSE SCRIPTURES BY POSTING THOSE VERSES!

    SO PIN POINT WHERE YOU DON'T AGREE WITH AND CONTRADICT ME!

    BY DOING SO YOU ARE MISGUIDING!

    SHOW ME WHERE I SAID SOMETHING WHICH IS  NOT IN AGREEMENT  WITH THOSE VERSES, UNLESS WE ARE MISUNDERSTANDING EACH OTHER!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles


    Carmel.

    Quote

    GABRIEL FOR GOD!

    What do you mean by that??

    Quote

    ZACHARIAS JOHN’S FATHER
    ELI ZA BETH JOHN’S MOTHER From the Hebrew Elisheba, SIGNIFIES GOD IN SATISFACTION. HE DEFINITELY WAS WITH JOHN!

    We know that because of the Holy spirit in Him,
    since his conception.

    Quote

    JOHN’S SPIRIT MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL
    and
    JOHN MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL IN FLESH AND BLOOD!

    Where in scripture is that??
    Micha'el the arch angel is not the Holy spirit.
    The spirit in John is the Holy spirit;not Micha'el

    Quote

    SO LIKEWISE, REGARDING JESUS’ BIRTH ANNOUINCEMENT,AND HIS BIRTH I WOULD EXPAND ON:
    1).GOD JESUS’ FATHER
    2).MARY JESUS’ MOTHER
    3).JESUS’ SPIRIT THE WORD

    Answer:
    1.Agree.

    2.Matthew 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that
    told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

    Matthew 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his
    disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

    3.Jesus is the Word of God walking in the flesh.
    Jesus now has the power to SEND the Holy Spirit to whom
    He please.

    Quote

    JESUS THE WORD MADE FLESH
    NOW WHAT WOULD BE JUSTIFIED, IF NOT POSTING TWO POSTS IN ORDER TO DISCUSS OUR LORD, JESUS CHRIST?
    DO YOU AGREE?

    It is always a good thing to discuss our Lord to gain more knowledge. I agree.

    wakeup.

    #370853
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Feb. 10 2014,07:01][/quote]

    Quote
    GABRIEL FOR GOD!

    Quote
    What do you mean by that??

    Wakeup,

    READ:

    Luke 1:19 And the angel answering, said to him: I am Gabriel,  WHO STAND BEFORE GOD: and am sent to speak to thee, and to bring thee these good tidings.

    HAPPY?

    GABRIEL CONFIRMED THAT HE IS ACTING FOR GOD!

    SO HE HAS FULL AUTHORITY LIKE GOD HIMSELF WHILE HE IS DOING HIS WORK!

    THAT'S WHY HE SAID TO ZACHARY THAT HE WOULD BE DUMB!

    Quote
    Where in scripture is that??
    Micha'el the arch angel is not the Holy spirit.
    The spirit in John is the Holy spirit;not Micha'el

    Jesus words himself confirmed that John was so!

    since he said:

    there  was no one greater than John who was born of a woman, CONFIRMING THAT HE, JESUS WAS NOT AS GREAT, WHEN HE WAS BORN AS MAN! HE MEANT:

    THAT SINCE JESUS CONTAINED SATAN'S SPIRIT IN HIS SOUL OBVIOUS SINCE HE WAS FROM THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, TO REDEEM HIS PEOPLE, JOHN WAS NOT NEITHER FROM THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, NOR HAD SATAN'S SPIRIT WITHIN HIM FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT JOHN WAS BORN WITHOUT ANY HUMAN SEED AT ALL SINCE BOTH PARENTS BLOOD WERE NOT INVOLVED!

    ELIZABETH WAS BARREN, AND ZACHARY WAS NOT CAPABLE TO HAVE SEX !

    SO FROM THE ABOVE WE ARE AWARE THAT JOHN WAS THE ONLY MAN ON EARTH WHO NEVER HAD SATAN'S SPIRIT IN HIS SOUL, IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO CAST OUT SATAN FROM JESUS' SOUL, [B] LIKE HE DID FROM HEAVEN ONLY MICHAEL HAD SUPERIORITY OVER SATAN!

    THE ABOVE ONLY REGARDING JOHN'S PARENTS AND JOHN HIMSELF!

    BUT THERE ARE MORE REGARDING BOTH MARY AND JESUS WHICH MADE JESUS IN A WAY NOT GREATER THAN JOHN, AS MAN!

    BUT JESUS STILL CONFIRMED THAT HE WAS GREATER THAN JOHN OBVIOUS SINCE HE WAS THE SON OF GOD ALTHOUGH HE, JESUS WAS THE LEAST OF GOD'S KINGDOM AGAIN HE WAS REFERRING TO HIMSELF AS MAN

    SO FROM THESE COMPARISONS WE ARE AWARE THAT JOHN WAS MICHAEL!

    Quote
    Where in scripture is that??
    Micha'el the arch angel is not the Holy spirit.
    The spirit in John is the Holy spirit;not Micha'el

    I EXPLAINED THIS ALREADY!

    THE HOLY SPIRIT COULD ONLY ABIDE IN A SPIRIT NOT DIRECTLY IN A HUMAN SOUL BEFORE JESUS REDEEMED ALL SOULS AND  WAS GLORIFIED,

    SO JOHN WITHIN HIS SOUL HAD MICHAEL'S SPIRIT, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WITHIN MICHAEL'S SPIRIT!

    HE WAS FILLED THROUGH CONCEPTION, OBVIOUS HE HAD TO CREATE JOHN'S FLESH BODY SINCE THERE WAS NO HUMAN SEED AT ALL

    OK?

    Quote
    Jesus is the Word of God walking in the flesh.
      Jesus now has the power to SEND the Holy Spirit to whom
      He please.

    NOT EXACTLY!

    THE HOLY SPIRIT IS IN THE ENTIRE HUMAN BEING' S SOULS , AUTOMATICALLY!SINCE JESUS REDEEMED ALL HUMANITY!

    BUT HE ONLY ACT ACCORDING TO OUR WILL!

    SO IF SOMEONE DOES NOT BELIEVE IN GOD, THE HOLY SPIRIT STILL ABIDES IN HUMAN SOULS, BUT NOT DIRECTLY

    THROUGH THE WORD SINCE JESUS, THE WORD MADE FLESH ELIMINATED SATAN'S SPIRIT!

    NOTHING EXISTS WITHOUT THE WORD ALL THE ENTIRE EXISTENCE EVEN SATAN'S HIMSELF IS FUNCTIONING THROUGH THE WORD THE SON'S SPIRIT, THE TRIUNE MEDIATOR CREATOR GOD!

    ALL IN HIM, ALL BY HIM, AND ALL FOR HIM! ALLELUIA!

    PLEASE REFLECT!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #370888
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Not all humans have the Holy spirit,
    this is in scripture.

    John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

    John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

    John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

    John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

    wakeup.

    #370915
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Feb. 10 2014,16:52][/quote]

    Quote
    Not all humans have the Holy spirit,
    this is in scripture.  

    Wakeup,

    THERE IS NOTHING IN THOSE SCRIPTURES YOU POSTED WHICH SAY THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT IN ALL HUMANS!

    AGAIN YOU SHOOT WORDS:

    THE VERY FIRST ONE CONTRADICTS YOU!  READ:

    John 14:16   And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that

    HE MAY ABIDE WITH YOU FOREVER.

    OK ETRNALLY IN ALL, HE WAS NOT REFERING ONLY TO HIS APPOSITLES, BUT TO ALL CREATURES  

    THE WORD MADE FLESH, DIED HIS DEATH TO BE OFFICIALLY IN ALL THAT EXIST, EVEN IN SATAN! THROUGH THE WORD,

    BECAUSE BY THE WORD IS CREATED ALL!

    John 10: 29 That which my Father hath given me,

    IS GREATER THAN ALL :

    and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father.

    30 I and the Father are one.

    IN THE WORD

    REFLECT:

    SO THE FATHER GAVE THE WORD A SPIRIT, THE SON’S SPIRIT, THE TRIUNE GOD,

    LEFT THE FATHER,

    CREATED ALL,

    THEN PERFECTED ALL CREATION IN MARY’S BODY, SO THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH IN MARY FIRST, BUT THROUGH NATURE! FOR THE SON TO OWN AN IMMACULATE FLESH SUSBSTANCE! AND ALL CREATION WOULD BE ALL BY HIM, UP TO MARY,

    THEN  N HIM, IN JESUS, IN ORDER TO BE REDEEMED BY OFFERING HIS BODY AS A SACRIFICE FOR ALL, EVEN FOR SATAN!

    THEN THE HOLY SPIRIT CONCEIVED MARY

    THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH BUT THIS TIME FROM THE FATHER IN HEAVEN, THEREFORE THE TRIUNE GOD IN JESUS CHRIST!

    JESUS CHRIST DIED!

    GLORIFIED TOGETHER WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT!

    THEY BECAME ONE, THE FATHER AND THE SON! SPIRIT AND FLESH, THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST!

    ELIMINATED SATAN FROM OUR CREATION!

    THE WORD WHICH ORIGINALLY LEFT THE FATHER SLAIN FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD, MAINTAINED ITS ETERNAL LIFE, SEALED  IN CREATION!

    SAVED THE WORLD!

    AND BECAME THE ABSOLUTE SPIRIT TO OCCUPY ALL SOULS FROM BIRTH! NO MATTER HOW EVIL THEY ARE, OTHERWISE THEY WONT EXIST!

    WHEN A PERSON IS BORN AGAIN, ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS THE REDEEMER, THE HOLY SPIRIT START TO FUNCTION, BUT IT WAS ALWAYS THERE THROUGH THE WORDTHOUGH!

    SLAIN FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD!  REV: 13:8

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #370933
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (carmel @ Feb. 10 2014,09:11)

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 10 2014,16:52)
    Not all humans have the Holy spirit, this is in scripture.

    Wakeup,

    THERE IS NOTHING IN THOSE SCRIPTURES YOU POSTED WHICH SAY THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT IN ALL HUMANS!

    AGAIN YOU SHOOT WORDS:

    THE VERY FIRST ONE CONTRADICTS YOU!  READ:

    John 14:16   And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that

    HE MAY ABIDE WITH YOU FOREVER.

    OK ETRNALLY IN ALL, HE WAS NOT REFERING ONLY TO HIS APPOSITLES, BUT TO ALL CREATURES  


    Charles,

    Wakeup is right on this one. All throughout the scriptures, God has chosen to give His Holy Spirit to CERTAIN people – not all people.

    Luke 11
    10 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

    11 “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead?

    12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion?

    13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

    If God's Holy Spirit was automatically given to all creatures already, Jesus' words above would be unnecessary and senseless.

    peace,
    mike

    #370943
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Carmel.

    Quote

    THERE IS NOTHING IN THOSE SCRIPTURES YOU POSTED WHICH SAY THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT IN ALL HUMANS!
    AGAIN YOU SHOOT WORDS:
    THE VERY FIRST ONE CONTRADICTS YOU! READ:

    If you read those scriptures carefully,you will see that the Holy spirit had to be send. This only means that He is not with them.Not every one have the HS.
    HEROD DID NOT HAVE THE HS.

    Quote

    John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that
    HE MAY ABIDE WITH YOU FOREVER.

    You see? The Holy Spirit had to be given.

    Quote

    OK ETRNALLY IN ALL, HE WAS NOT REFERING ONLY TO HIS APPOSITLES, BUT TO ALL CREATURES
    THE WORD MADE FLESH, DIED HIS DEATH TO BE OFFICIALLY IN ALL THAT EXIST, EVEN IN SATAN! THROUGH THE WORD,
    BECAUSE BY THE WORD IS CREATED ALL!

    2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    Quote

    John 10: 29 That which my Father hath given me,
    IS GREATER THAN ALL : and no one can snatch them out of the hand of my Father.

    The true worshippers are Christ's.
    They are the apple of God's eye.
    God's jewels.

    Quote

    30 I and the Father are one.
    IN THE WORD
    REFLECT:
    SO THE FATHER GAVE THE WORD A SPIRIT, THE SON’S SPIRIT, THE TRIUNE GOD,
    LEFT THE FATHER,
    CREATED ALL,

    Not a triune God.(trinity).
    One God; and his own Word.Living Word.
    With shape and form.The image of God himself.
    The HS is the Spirit of truth.(john16). The truth is in the word.Every word coming from God is truth.

    Quote

    THEN PERFECTED ALL CREATION IN MARY’S BODY, SO THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH IN MARY FIRST, BUT THROUGH NATURE! FOR THE SON TO OWN AN IMMACULATE FLESH SUSBSTANCE! AND ALL CREATION WOULD BE ALL BY HIM, UP TO MARY,
    THEN N HIM, IN JESUS, IN ORDER TO BE REDEEMED BY OFFERING HIS BODY AS A SACRIFICE FOR ALL, EVEN FOR SATAN!

    That really boggles my brains.
    I need a few aspirins.

    Quote

    THEN THE HOLY SPIRIT CONCEIVED MARY
    THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH BUT THIS TIME FROM THE FATHER IN HEAVEN, THEREFORE THE TRIUNE GOD IN JESUS CHRIST!

    By the power of the HS Jesus was conceived.
    What triune god. How many gods do you worship.

    Quote

    JESUS CHRIST DIED!
    GLORIFIED TOGETHER WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT!
    THEY BECAME ONE, THE FATHER AND THE SON! SPIRIT AND FLESH, THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST!
    ELIMINATED SATAN FROM OUR CREATION!

    Jesus died;yes.
    Jesus had the HS since conception.
    Satan is not eliminated; He is still in full operation today.

    Quote

    THE WORD WHICH ORIGINALLY LEFT THE FATHER SLAIN FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD, MAINTAINED ITS ETERNAL LIFE, SEALED IN CREATION!
    SAVED THE WORLD!
    AND BECAME THE ABSOLUTE SPIRIT TO OCCUPY ALL SOULS FROM BIRTH! NO MATTER HOW EVIL THEY ARE, OTHERWISE THEY WONT EXIST!

    In that case what is HELL, AND THE LAKE OF FIRE FOR; Can you tell me?

    Quote

    WHEN A PERSON IS BORN AGAIN, ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS THE REDEEMER, THE HOLY SPIRIT START TO FUNCTION, BUT IT WAS ALWAYS THERE THROUGH THE WORDTHOUGH!
    SLAIN FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD! REV: 13:8

    No; The HS is not dormant in men.Never in sleep mode.
    He will be send if found worthy.

    Are your teachings, catholic based?
    I'll be glad to confront them.

    wakeup.

    #371060
    jammin
    Participant

    not yet done??

    is it hard to accept that Christ is the Word of God? john 1.1 explains that well.

    it is also supported by rev 19.13
    no argument needed.

    case should be closed

    #371064
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 12 2014,19:50)
    not yet done??

    is it hard to accept that Christ is the Word of God? john 1.1 explains that well.

    it is also supported by rev 19.13
    no argument needed.

    case should be closed


    Jammin,

    You raised an interesting question but you show no sign that you are searching for the truth as you are satisfied with your truth.  Others give at least the appearance of truth.

    #371090
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=mikeboll64,Feb. 11 2014,08:46][/quote]

    Quote
    If God's Holy Spirit was automatically given to all creatures already, Jesus' words above would be unnecessary and senseless.

    Mike,/and Wakeup

    THE HOLY SPIRIT BEFORE REDEMPTION IS A COMPLETE DIFFERENT SPIRIT, FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO WAS SENT FROM THE FATHER AFTER THE GLORIFICATION OF JESUS CHRIST!

    ARE YOU AWARE OF THIS?

    Quote
    If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”[/color]

    THIS STATEMENT HEREUNDER:

    how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him[/b]!”[/color]

    IS A REFERENCE TO THE BAPTISM!

    SINCE WHOEVER GOES TO RECEIVE IT MUST LEARN, ACCEPT, AND DECLARE JESUS CHRIST AND HIS TEACHINGS!

    THE HOLY SPIRIT BEFORE REDEMPTION ENDED HIS IN A MODE TO SAY KIND OF TEMPORARY FUNCTION IN THE CONCEPTION OF JESUS CHRIST!

    FROM THEN ON HE WAS FUNCTIONING ONLY IN JESUS,
    BUT AS HIS SOUL

    AS SOON AS JESUS CHRIST, THE WORD MADE FLESH

    THE EX HOLY SPIRIT, JESUS SOUL AND

    THE SON'S SPIRIT, JESUS FLESH BODY

    GLORIFIED AFTER JESUS' RESURRECTION THEY BECAME ONE UNIQUE MOST POWERFUL SPIRIT

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST!

    WHEN JESUS RETURNED TO THE FATHER THE APOSTLES HAD TO WAIT FOR THE FATHER TO BE IN THE POSITION TO SEND

    THE NEW GLORIFIED HOLY SPIRIT

    FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT BEFORE REDEMPTION WAS ONLY IN THE ATTRIBUTES OF THE FATHER!

    BUT AFTER REDEMPTION THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS GLORIFIED IN HUMAN ATTRIBUTES OF JESUS CHRIST!

    JESUS CONFIRMED THIS AND SAID:

    HE WILL TAKE OF WHAT IS MINE

    NOW FROM PENTECOST THE HOLY SPIRIT IS OFFICIALLY IN ALL THOSE WHO ARE BAPTISED!

    UNOFFICIALLY HE IS IN ALL HUMANS THROUGH THE WORD INDIRECTLY WORKING:SINCE THE WORD IS ETERNAL IN ALL CREATURES SLAIN FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD!

    SO THE HOLY SPIRIT REPLACED SATAN'S SPIRIT AUTOMATIC INSERTION IN ALL SOULS ON BIRTHS SINCE ADAM'S SIN!

    IT HAS TO BE SO!

    THIS TO RETAIN HIS ORIGINAL PLACE WHICH HE OWNED IN ADAM!  

    READ:

    Hebrews 1: But to which of the angels said he at any time:

    SIT ON MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I ( THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT)  MAKE YOUR EMEMIES YOUR FOOTSTOOL?

    SO GOD THROUGH THE NEW GLORIFIED HOLY SPIRIT  IS IN ALL SOULS WORKING TO MAKE THEM PERFECT!

    HE IS IN NO WAY BEING LAZY WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO BE BAPTISED, BUT HE HIMSELF HIDDEN WITHIN ALL HUMANS, FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION EXECUTING HIS WORK

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #371127
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Carmel.

    Dont resist true knowledge.

    Quote

    THE HOLY SPIRIT BEFORE REDEMPTION IS A COMPLETE DIFFERENT SPIRIT, FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO WAS SENT FROM THE FATHER AFTER THE GLORIFICATION OF JESUS CHRIST!
    ARE YOU AWARE OF THIS?

    God is the same yester day, today, and forever.
    God does not change,and so also His Spirit.
    The truth does not change. The spirit of truth is always the same.

    Quote

    If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

    Evil parents will give their children gifts.
    What more God? He will give you the Holy Spirit;*IF* you ask for it with a true heart. To ask for the Holy Spirit is to ask for treasures in heaven: knowledge.
    The Holy Spirit is our teacher of the truth.

    Quote

    THIS STATEMENT HEREUNDER:
    how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him[/b]!”[/color]
    IS A REFERENCE TO THE BAPTISM!
    SINCE WHOEVER GOES TO RECEIVE IT MUST LEARN, ACCEPT, AND DECLARE JESUS CHRIST AND HIS TEACHINGS!

    No; Baptism in water is for the remission of sins.Repentance.
    This is the baptism of John.
    Baptism of the Holy Spirit is from God.
    The HS will open up the eyes to understand spiritual things.
    The gospels and prophesies,will be revealed.

    Quote

    THE HOLY SPIRIT BEFORE REDEMPTION ENDED HIS IN A MODE TO SAY KIND OF TEMPORARY FUNCTION IN THE CONCEPTION OF JESUS CHRIST!
    FROM THEN ON HE WAS FUNCTIONING ONLY IN JESUS,
    BUT AS HIS SOUL
    AS SOON AS JESUS CHRIST, THE WORD MADE FLESH
    THE EX HOLY SPIRIT, JESUS SOUL AND
    THE SON'S SPIRIT, JESUS FLESH BODY
    GLORIFIED AFTER JESUS' RESURRECTION THEY BECAME ONE UNIQUE MOST POWERFUL SPIRIT

    You are tangled up in your own span web here.
    Jesus is God's own Word.The HS in in the Word.
    Every Word spoken in truth has the HS.in it.
    Every word spoken in lies; has the spirit of the deceiver,in it.
    The man Jesus always speaks in truth,because He has the Spirit of truth in him.

    Quote

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST!
    WHEN JESUS RETURNED TO THE FATHER THE APOSTLES HAD TO WAIT FOR THE FATHER TO BE IN THE POSITION TO SEND
    THE NEW GLORIFIED HOLY SPIRIT

    THere is no such as NEW OR OLD HOLY SPIRIT.
    Jesus promised the apostles the HS, and that promise was fulfilled at pantecost. That's all.

    Quote

    FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT BEFORE REDEMPTION WAS ONLY IN THE ATTRIBUTES OF THE FATHER!
    BUT AFTER REDEMPTION THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS GLORIFIED IN HUMAN ATTRIBUTES OF JESUS CHRIST!
    JESUS CONFIRMED THIS AND SAID:
    HE WILL TAKE OF WHAT IS MINE

    Dont confuse yourself. Jesus is the living Word of God
    and in him is the HS.(truth).
    Jesus said: and He will glorify me.
    If you receive the HS you *WILL* glorify Jesus,through Him.

    Quote

    NOW FROM PENTECOST THE HOLY SPIRIT IS OFFICIALLY IN ALL THOSE WHO ARE BAPTISED!

    Not so: many are baptised with no HS involved.
    That is a make believe only.Only when you are given the HS.
    Not everyone receive the HS. One need to seek for the truth
    To receive the HS.

    Quote

    UNOFFICIALLY HE IS IN ALL HUMANS THROUGH THE WORD INDIRECTLY WORKING:SINCE THE WORD IS ETERNAL IN ALL CREATURES SLAIN FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD!
    SO THE HOLY SPIRIT REPLACED SATAN'S SPIRIT AUTOMATIC INSERTION IN ALL SOULS ON BIRTHS SINCE ADAM'S SIN!
    IT HAS TO BE SO!
    THIS TO RETAIN HIS ORIGINAL PLACE WHICH HE OWNED IN ADAM!
    READ:
    Hebrews 1: But to which of the angels said he at any time:
    SIT ON MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I ( THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT) MAKE YOUR EMEMIES YOUR FOOTSTOOL?
    SO GOD THROUGH THE NEW GLORIFIED HOLY SPIRIT IS IN ALL SOULS WORKING TO MAKE THEM PERFECT!
    HE IS IN NO WAY BEING LAZY WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO BE BAPTISED, BUT HE HIMSELF HIDDEN WITHIN ALL HUMANS, FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION EXECUTING HIS WORK

    All the enemies of Jesus will be destroyd at the coming.
    Babylon the great will be no more. The cities of the nations will be rubble; a heap of concrete.
    Then Christ's kingdom, He will set up.

    Carmel;dont reject true knowledge.

    wakeup.

    #371166
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 13 2014,06:32)
    There is no such as NEW OR OLD HOLY SPIRIT.


    I didn't even know how to answer that post, Wakeup.

    I like Charles, but many of his ideas come from somewhere other than the scriptures.

    #371171
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 14 2014,11:16)

    Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 13 2014,06:32)
    There is no such as NEW OR OLD HOLY SPIRIT.


    I didn't even know how to answer that post, Wakeup.

    I like Charles, but many of his ideas come from somewhere other than the scriptures.


    Yes Mike; he gets all jumbled up some times.
    But he is sincere,and I'm patient.

    wakeup.

    #371185
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 13 2014,01:52)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 12 2014,19:50)
    not yet done??

    is it hard to accept that Christ is the Word of God? john 1.1 explains that well.

    it is also supported by rev 19.13
    no argument needed.

    case should be closed


    Jammin,

    You raised an interesting question but you show no sign that you are searching for the truth as you are satisfied with your truth.  Others give at least the appearance of truth.


    yes it is true that i made this thread but it is clear that Christ is the WORD in john 1.1 and it was supported by rev 19.13

    yes we have seen so many arguments about this verse but no strong evidence that could break the true meaning of the john 1.1.

    Christ is the WORD OF GOD and no doubt about it.

    #371189
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 14 2014,20:06)

    Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 13 2014,01:52)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 12 2014,19:50)
    not yet done??

    is it hard to accept that Christ is the Word of God? john 1.1 explains that well.

    it is also supported by rev 19.13
    no argument needed.

    case should be closed


    Jammin,

    You raised an interesting question but you show no sign that you are searching for the truth as you are satisfied with your truth.  Others give at least the appearance of truth.


    yes it is true that i made this thread but it is clear that Christ is the WORD in john 1.1 and it was supported by rev 19.13

    yes we have seen so many arguments about this verse but no strong evidence that could break the true meaning of the john 1.1.

    Christ is the WORD OF GOD and no doubt about it.


    Jammin,

    What you says proves nothing and if you were not blind you would see that. You have chosen to remain blind and follow the teachings of men rather than the teachings of God. You can always change your ways and learn to test the teachings you claim to adhere to in order to determine if they are true.

    #371224
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 14 2014,08:06)
    yes it is true that i made this thread but it is clear that Christ is the WORD in john 1.1 and it was supported by rev 19.13

    yes we have seen so many arguments about this verse but no strong evidence that could break the true meaning of the john 1.1.

    Christ is the WORD OF GOD and no doubt about it.


    Amen.

    #371225
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 14 2014,09:57)
    You have chosen to remain blind and follow the teachings of men rather than the teachings of God.


    That's YOU, Kerwin.  Here, let me remind you of the things said about “the Word”, which are also said about “Jesus”……

    The italicized words below are things said about “the Word” in John 1.  The scriptures listed in parenthesis identify some of the places in scripture where those same exact things are said about Jesus.

    1.  And the Word was a god:  (Is 9:6, Heb 1:8-9, etc.)

    2.  He was with God in the beginning:  (John 17:5)

    3.  All things were made through him:  (Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, Heb 1:2)

    4.  In him was life, and that life was the light of men:  (John 5:26, John 8:12)

    5.  The light shines in the darkness:  (Matthew 4:16; John 3:19; 2 Corinthians 4:6)

    6.  John the Baptist came as a witness to testify concerning that light:  (John 1:29-34; 3:26; 5:32-36)

    7.  The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world:  (Isaiah 42:6-7; John 3:19, 9:5, 12:35-36, 46; Luke 1:78-79)

    8.  Though he was in the world, the world did not recognize him:  (Isaiah 53:3, John 4:10, Acts 13:27, John 12:37-38, 1 John 3:1)

    9.  He came to that which was his own: (Col 1:16; Matt 11:27; John 3:35, 13:3, 16:15; Eph 1:10; Heb 1:2)

    10.  but his own did not receive him:  (Luke 9:53; John 5:43; Acts 13:46)

    11.  to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God:  (Acts 4:12; John 3:14-16; Gal 3:26; Heb 2:10; Eph 1:5)

    12.  The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us:  (1 John 1:1-2, 4:2; Phil 2:6-7; Rom 8:3; Gal 4:4-5)

    13.  We have seen his glory, the glory of the only begotten:  (John 1:18, 3:16-18; 1 John 4:9)

    14.  who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.:  (John 1:16, 14:6; Luke 2:40; Romans 1:5)

    15.  John testified concerning him.:  (Mark 1:7-8; John 1:32, 34; John 3:26; John 5:32-33; John 10:41)

    16.  He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”:  (John 1:29-30; John 3:28,30; Micah 5:2; Acts 19:4)

    #371266
    kerwin
    Participant

    Mike, Jammin

    Isaiah 9:6
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
    And the government will [a]rest on His shoulders;
    And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
    Footnotes:

       Isaiah 9:6 Lit be

    Jesus' name is Jesus.  So this passage is clearly not speaking of Jesus' name.  So what is it speaking of?

    Elihu, a name in scripture, means “my God is He”.  Does that mean that the ones name Elihu are God or a god?

    The Jews teach there are only two names in that passage but the certain translators who teach Jesus is God or those that teach Jesus is a god use four names. Bias! People see what they want to see. Those that hunger and thirst for righteousness will learn to see the truth while those who love darkness will see what their itching hears want to hear.

    Note: Elihu

    #371268
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2014,23:43)
    Mike, Jammin

    Isaiah 9:6
    New American Standard Bible (NASB)

    6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
    And the government will [a]rest on His shoulders;
    And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
    Footnotes:

       Isaiah 9:6 Lit be

    Jesus' name is Jesus.  So this passage is clearly not speaking of Jesus' name.  So what is it speaking of?

    Elihu, a name in scripture, means “my God is He”.  Does that mean that the ones name Elihu are God or a god?


    K

    YOUR ERROR IS THAT YOU READ THE SCRIPTURES WITH YOUR MIND AND NOT WITH YOUR HEART ,

    SO ALL YOUR UNDERSTANDING ARE ON THE WORDS IT SELVES NOT ON THE TRUE UNDERSTANDING OF GOD THROUGH THE HEART AND SO BE SAVED ,

    ISA 6:10 “ Render the hearts of this people insensitive,
    Their ears dull,
    And their eyes dim,
    Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
    Hear with their ears,
    Understand with their hearts,
    And return and be healed.”

    #371270
    kerwin
    Participant

    T,

    I added more after I posted.  You posted to only the portion I posted previously.

    I am not concerned with the words as words can mean many things.  I am concerned with the truth that can be expressed with those words.  The Jews translate Isaiah 9:6 one way and Trinitarians another but the words each uses can be used to express the truth though neither group meant it.

    #371272
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=Wakeup,Feb. 11 2014,10:10][/quote]

    Quote
    If you read those scriptures carefully,you will see that the Holy spirit had to be send. This only means that He is not with them. Not every one have the HS.
    HEROD DID NOT HAVE THE HS.

    Wakeup,

    APART THAT YOU BLINDFOLDED SHOOT WORDS!

    YOU READ AND YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!

    SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU ARE FULL OF PRIDE, AND DO NOT REFLECT AT ALL!

    THE HOLY SPIRIT

    GLORIFIED IN THE HUMAN ATTRIBUTES OF JESUS,

    CAME FOR THE FIRST TIME ON EARTH ON PENTECOST

    HOW ON EARTH YOU HAVE INVOLVED HEROD IN THIS?

    Quote
      John 14:16   And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that
    HE MAY ABIDE WITH YOU FOREVER

    You see? The Holy Spirit had to be given.

    BUT NOT TO THE APOSTLES ONLY! BUT TO ALL THOSE WHO ARE BAPTISED IN THE NAME OF JESUS!

    ALSO THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NOT WITHIN  HUMANS ON BIRTH!

    IN JESUS' TIME, SINCE THERE WERE MANY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD, THEN HOLY SPIRIT HAD TO BE GIVEN THROUGH BAPTISM! THAT'S A FACT!

    BUT FROM THAT MOMENT THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT CAME ON EARTH, ON THE APOSTLES, HE WAS AUTOMATICALLY IN ALL NEW BIRTHS, SINCE HUMANS WERE REDEEMED, FROM SATAN'S SPIRIT IN THEIR SOULS, FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT HE RESTORED WHAT HE LOST IN ADAM! THEREFORE TOPPLED SATAN!

    IT IS RIDICULOUS, AND NONSENSE TO BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST THROUGH HIS REDEMPTION DIDN'T ACHIEVE, WHAT SATAN ACHIEVED THROUGH SIN CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT JESUS DIED FOR ALL SINS, EVEN FOR SATAN HIMSELF!

    SO YES THE HOLY SPIRIT IS OUTOMATICALLY WITHIN ALL SOULS ON BIRTH!  

    BUT WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT, SINCE THERE ARE VARIOUS RELIGIONS, THE CHILD OBVIOUS GROWS ACCORDING TO HIS PARENTS BELIEF!

    THIS AGAIN DOESN'T REMOVE THE HOLY SPIRIT FROM HUMANS, FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT [B] THE WORD IS SLAIN IN ALL HUMANS SOULS FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD, THEREFORE THE HOLY SPIRIT WOULD WORK THROUGH THE WORD

    Quote
    John 14:16   And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that
    HE MAY ABIDE WITH YOU FOREVER.

    OK? FOREVER! EITHER DIRECTLY, OR INDIRECTLY! HE IS ON EARTH BY HOOK OR BY CROOK GOD'S KINGDOM ON EARTH!

    Quote
    The true worshippers are Christ's.
    They are the apple of God's eye.
    God's jewels.

    BUT WHAT DETERMINES TRUE WORSHIPPERS?

    RELIGIONS?

    OR WHO LIVE IN CHRIST, NO MATTER WHAT?

    ARE ONLY THE CHRISTIANS WHO ARE GOING TO HEAVEN!

    READ AND DISCERN THE TRUTH!

    Matthew 8:9 For I also am a man subject to authority, having under me soldiers; and I say to this, Go, and he goeth, and to another, Come, and he cometh, and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. 10And Jesus hearing this, marvelled; and said to them that followed him: Amen I say to you, I have not found so great faith in Israel. 11And I say to you that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven: 12But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into the exterior darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 13And Jesus said to the centurion: Go, and as thou hast believed, so be it done to thee. And the servant was healed at the same hour.

    HAPPY NOW?

    HOW THEREFORE THOSE WHO ARE FROM THE EAST AND WEST, AND NOT CHILDREN OF THE KINGDOM ARE IN HEAVEN?

    OBVIOUS BECAUSE THE HOLY SPIRIT, WHO WAS IN THEM FROM BIRTH,WHEN  GREW UP THEY MATURED, AND HEARD THE HOLY SPIRIT WITHIN THEM AND THEY LIVED IN CHRIST!

    BUT CHRISTIANS, AND  I HOPE YOU AND I ARE NOT, ARE IN HELL! SINCE THEY NEVER LIVED IN CHRIST  

    AS  TRUE WORSHIPPERS!

    Quote
    Not a triune God.(trinity).

    LOOK UP THE WORD TRIUNE IN A DICTIONARY

    AND LEARN NOT TO SHOOT WORDS BLINDFOLDED!

    Quote
    One God; and his own Word.Living Word.
    With shape and form.The image of God himself.
    The HS is the Spirit of truth.(john16). The truth is in the word.Every word coming from God is truth.

    YES THAT'S KID'S STUFF OK! FOR THOSE WHO DRINK MILK!

    Quote
    That really boggles my brains.
    I need a few aspirins.

    I DON'T BLAME YOU!

    I WILL EXPLAIN IT BIT BY BIT FOR YOU, AND FOR ALL THOSE WHO WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH! FOR YOU AS WELL MIKE!

    HERE WE GO!

    Quote

    THEN PERFECTED ALL CREATION IN MARY’S BODY, SO THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH IN MARY FIRST, BUT THROUGH NATURE! FOR THE SON TO OWN AN IMMACULATE FLESH SUSBSTANCE! AND ALL CREATION WOULD BE ALL BY HIM, UP TO MARY,

    WHERE DID JESUS CHRIST ACQUIRED AN IMMACULATE FLESH BODY FROM?   MARY'S NO?

    NOW WHERE DID MARY ACQUIRED HER IMMACULATE FLESH BODY FROM?

    THE WORD NO?

    SO THE LAST WORK OF  THE WORD WAS WHEN HE CREATED MARY'S PERFECT BODY , THROUGH HIMSELF FIRST, SO THE WORD WAS MARY'S SOUL AND BY DOING SO, HUMANS,ACQUIRED A PERFECT MOTHER EARTH , GOD'S PREFERENCE THE OPPOSITE OF EVE, LUCIFER'S PREFERENCE!

    MARY WAS DECLARED MOTHER OF THE CHURCH ON THE CROSS BY JESUS!

    SO SINCE MARY A HUMAN BEING WAS BORN PERFECT THROUGH CREATION, THROUGH NATURE THE WORD ACCOMPLISHED THE PERFECT WORK WHICH FOR JUSTICE SAKE WAS NOT POSSIBLE TO ACHIEVE IN EVE, SINCE  EVE WAS ONLY VERY GOOD!

    JOHN 4:32But he said to them: I have meat to eat, which you know not. 33The disciples therefore said one to another: Hath any man brought him to eat? 34Jesus saith to them: My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, THAT I MAY PERFECT HIS WORK . SO THE FIRST ONE WAS MARY! FOR HIMSELF TO BE BORN PURE, PERFECT MAN!

    Quote
    THEN  IN HIM, IN JESUS, IN ORDER TO BE REDEEMED BY OFFERING HIS BODY AS A SACRIFICE FOR ALL, EVEN FOR SATAN!

    SO JESUS ACQUIRED HIS PERFECT FLESH BODY CREATED FROM NATURE THROUGH MARY,

    THEREFORE JESUS  IN HIMSELF  OWNED A MICR
    OCOSM PERFECT HUMAN BODY, FROM NATURE,
    ALTHOUGH HE CAME FROM HEAVEN, THEN HE REDEEMED IT,

    FOR THE PLEASURE OF THE FATHER!

    THEREFORE HE REDEEMED THE ENTIRE CREATION!

    Quote
    THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH BUT THIS TIME FROM THE FATHER IN HEAVEN, THEREFORE THE TRIUNE GOD IN JESUS CHRIST!

    By the power of the HS Jesus was conceived.
    What triune god. How many gods do you worship.

    READ AND UNDERSTAND!

    Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the GODHEAD CORPORALLY;

    HAPPY?

    JESUS CHRIST WAS THE GODHEAD IN FLESH, THEREFORE

    THE TRIUNE GOD IN FLESH

    THE FATHER                                     JESUS' SPIRIT

    THE HOLY SPIRIT                               JESUS' SOUL

    THE WORD  THE SON'S SPIRIT     JESUS'FLESH BODY

    SETTLED!

    I WORSHIP THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST OTHERWISE THE FATHER WOULD IGNORE ME!

    Quote
    Satan is not eliminated; He is still in full operation today.

    AGAIN YOU SHOOT WORDS BLINDFOLDED, AND YOU READ AND YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!  SO LEARN THE TRUTH!

    JESUS DIED AND THROUGH HIS DEATH HE ELIMINATED SATAN'S AUTOMATIC INSERTION FROM BIRTH IN ALL SOULS!

    HE ELIMINATED SATAN'S SPIRIT FROM NATURE, THROUGHOUT!

    THE REASON THAT HE PROCLAIMED THAT HE IS THE TRUE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, AND ALSO THAT IN THE LAST SUPPER HE DECLARED THAT THE BREAD IS HIS BODY, SIGNIFY THAT HIS SPIRIT THE WORD IS OFFICIALLY IN THE ENTIRE CREATION! AND WHATEVER WE EAT AND DRINK IS CLEAN! THROUGHOUT!

    Acts 11:7And I heard also a voice saying to me: Arise, Peter; kill and eat. 8And I said: Not so, Lord; for nothing common or unclean hath ever entered into my mouth. 9And the voice answered again from heaven:

    WHAT GOD HAD MADE CLEAN, DO NOT YOU CALL COMMON.

    HAPPY?

    SO JESUS ELIMINATED SATAN'S SPIRIT FROM CREATION! FACT! AND TRUTH!

    SATAN IS SERVING GOD!

    HE IS SUBJECT TO JESUS CHRIST!

    HE IS SUBJECT TO ALL HUMANS!

    IF HUMANS REJECT HIM, HE WILL BE USELESS!

    BEFORE REDEMPTION, HE OCCUPIED ALL SOULS FROM BIRTH, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE SELECTAND HE MADE THEIR HEART OF STONE, AND THEY COULD NEVER HEAR AND UNDERSTAND, SEE AND PERCEIVE! OTHERWISE THEY WOULD BE CONVERTED!

    Quote
    In that case what is HELL, AND THE LAKE OF FIRE FOR; Can you tell me?  

    YES THOSE HAVE TO WAIT FOR WHAT COULD ONLY BE DESCRIBED AS DAMNATION

    NOW THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE FREE IN DUE COARSE, THEY SIMPLY HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN THROUGH ANOTHER PROCESS OF SALVATION! WHICH COULD TAKE MILLIONS OF YEARS TO START!

    THIS IS ONLY THE FIRST PROCESS OF SALVATION BY FAITH, THERE ARE TWO MORE TO GO!

    THE NEXT ONE, WHICH WOULD BE LONGER THEN THIS, WOULD NOT NEED FAITH, BECAUSE SINCE THIS PROCESS WE ARE IN, GOD HAD BEEN PROCLAIMED, AND ALSO THERE'S ENOUGH PROOF OF HIS EXISTENCE, THEREFORE THERE WOULD BE A CLEAR VISIBLE EVIDENCE OF GOD!  

    John 5:29 And they that have done good things, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of DAMNATION.

    WE WERE IN THAT STATE FOR MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF YEARS, BUT WE DO NOT REMEMBER ANYTHING! WE WERE IN DAMNATION, DESPERATE TO BE AWARE OF OUR EXISTENCE!

    Quote
    WHEN A PERSON IS BORN AGAIN, ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST AS THE REDEEMER, THE HOLY SPIRIT START TO FUNCTION, BUT IT WAS ALWAYS THERE THROUGH THE WORD THOUGH!
    SLAIN FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD!  REV: 13:8

    No; The HS is not dormant in men.Never in sleep mode.
    He will be send if found worthy.

    AGAIN YOU SHOOT WORDS, YOU READ AND DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE YOUR HEART OF STONE!

    I SAID:

    BUT IT WAS ALWAYS THERE THROUGH THE WORD THOUGH!

    SO I NEVER SAID DORMANT! YOUR DREAMING , AND YOU BETTER WAKEUP BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE OK?

    HE WORKS THROUGH THE WORD

    THE HOLY SPIRIT NEVER SLEEPS, HE WORKS ALL THE TIME IN ALL SOULS NO MATTER WHAT, BUT ACCORDING TO OUR WILL! EITHER DIRECTLY, OR INDIRECTLY!

    Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

    SO REFLECTING ON THE ABOVE,IF HE WORKED BEFORE  REDEMPTION, WHEN SATAN BELIEVED THAT HE OWNED THE WORLD AND HUMANS' SOULS, HOW ON EARTH HE IS NOT WORKING WHEN THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS FUNCTIONING THROUGH HIM,[/B]

    Hebrews 1:………………. Sit on my right hand, until I THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT make thine enemies thy footstool?

    Quote
    Are your teachings, catholic based?
    I'll be glad to confront them.

    YOU LIVE WELL BEHIND, I TOLD YOU! RELIGIONS DON'T COUNT!

    TO LIVE IN CHRIST COUNTS!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

Viewing 20 posts - 15,441 through 15,460 (of 26,009 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

© 1999 - 2026 Heaven Net

Log in with your credentials

or    

Forgot your details?

Create Account