John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 11,441 through 11,460 (of 26,009 total)
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  • #322860
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 29 2012,12:36)
    Hi Jammin,

    “The Father(God) that dwelleth in me(Jesus),
    he(God) doth the works.” (John 14:10)

    The divine nature of Jesus did not make him “God”,
    and neither will it make us “God”; though
    we will become one with them.

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus.
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    ED j…………Rigth on brother. God is a SPIRIT and can “INDWELL” anyone he choses to but that would never make that person a God even if God's Spirit was in him or her. There is ONLY ONE GOD WHO IS A SPIRIT. According to Jesus. He can pour himself which is his Spirit (intellect) into us all.

    Just as it says in Joel He (God) shall pour forth of his Spirit (intellect) upon “ALL” Flesh”>  But none of that makes those who receive His Spirit a God, they just have the “MIND” of God because of the Spirit “IN” them and that holds true with Jesus also.

    peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene

    #322872
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 01 2012,04:08)

    Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 29 2012,12:36)
    Hi Jammin,

    “The Father(God) that dwelleth in me(Jesus),
    he(God) doth the works.” (John 14:10)

    The divine nature of Jesus did not make him “God”,
    and neither will it make us “God”; though
    we will become one with them.

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus.
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    ED j…………Rigth on brother. God is a SPIRIT and can “INDWELL” anyone he choses to but that would never make that person a God even if God's Spirit was in him or her. There is ONLY ONE GOD WHO IS A SPIRIT. According to Jesus. He can pour himself which is his Spirit (intellect) into us all.

    Just as it says in Joel He (God) shall pour forth of his Spirit (intellect) upon “ALL” Flesh”>  But none of that makes those who receive His Spirit a God, they just have the “MIND” of God because of the Spirit “IN” them and that holds true with Jesus also.

    peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene


    Thank you brother Gene. :)

    #322885
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=mikeboll64,Nov. 25 2012,03:18][/quote]

    Quote
    Let's work it out together.  You say Jesus died at 3:00 Friday afternoon.  John 20:1 says that Mary came to the tomb “early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark”.

    So Friday night he was in the tomb.  And all day Saturday (the Sabbath).  And Saturday night.  Then what?

    Mike,

    VERY, VERY, VERY, POOR.

    OR ELSE YOU ARE PULLING MY LEG SINCE I ALREADY TOLD YOU TO USE JEWISH TIME.

    SO:

    HE DIED FRIDAY 3.00  IN THE AFTERNOON SO:

    THREE HOURS BEFORE THE END OF THE FIRST DAY.

    FRIDAY 6.00 THE END OF THE FIRST DAY / BEGINNING OF THE FIRST NIGHT!!!

    SO THE DAY WAS AHEAD BY THREE HOURS OVER THE NIGHT!!! OK???

    SATURDAY 6.00 IN THE MORNING WAS THE END OF THE FIRST NIGHT,/  BEGINNING OF THE SECOND DAY:

    SATURDAY 6.OO IN THE EVENING END OF THE SECOND DAY/BEGINNING OF THE SECOND NIGHT:

    SUNDAY 3.00 IN THE MORNING WAS  THREE HOURS BEFORE THE BEGINNING OF THE THIRD DAY

    SO SHORT BY THREE HOURS, OBVIOUS, THIS BECAUSE  HE DIED AT 3.OO IN THE AFTERNOON ON FRIDAY NOT AT 6.OO IN THE EVENING.

    IF HE DIED AT SIX, HE WOULD HAVE WAITED TILL SIX IN THE MORNING TO COVER THE THIRD DAY.

    SO HE GAINED THOSE THREE HOURS AND WAS RAISED AT 3.00 IN THE MORNING.

    MARY MAGDALENE WAS THE FIRST TO GO:

    I SPECULATE HERE THAT SINCE MAGDALENE WENT THERE BY HERSELF AND FOUND THE STONE MOVED,OBVIOUS IT WAS AFTER THREE,THEN SHE RAN BACK TO INFORM THE APPOSTLES,AND RETURNED TO THE SEPULCHRE, NOW SHE REMAINED THERE LOOKING FOR JESUS,WHILE THE OTHERS LEFT!

    SO THE EARLIEST THAT JESUS SPOKE TO HER WAS 4.00.

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #322895
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=mikeboll64,Nov. 24 2012,04:27][/quote]

    Quote
    First of all, you have no scriptural indication of when Jesus was “fully glorified”

    Mike,

    Read:

    John 20:Now when it was

    LATE THAT SAME DAY,( 1ST. INDICATION AFTER 6.00)

    the first of the week, and the doors were shut, where the disciples were gathered together, for fear of the Jews,

    JESUS CAME AND STOOD IN THE MIDST (2ND. INDICATION :GLORIFIED ENTERED THROUGH WALLS.

    FEW HOURS BEFORE HE TOLD MAGADALENE NOT TO TOUCH HIM, SINCE HE WAS ONLY IN HIS FLESH BODY,BUT HERE IT SAYS THAT HE WAS IN THE MIDST OF THEM,

    SO NO WORRIES IF THEY TOUCHED HIM!!! HE WAS FULLY GLORIFIED!!!) and said to them: Peace be to you.

    20 And when he had said this, he shewed them his hands and his side. The disciples therefore were glad, when they saw the Lord. 21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this,

    HE BRETHED ON THEM; AND HE SAID: RECEIVE YOU THE HOLY GHOST.(3RD. INDICATION: JESUS CONFIRMED THAT HE WAS FULLY GLORIFIED IN HIS GOD  AND OUR GOD,SINCE HE GAVE THEM THE HOLY GHOST!!!)

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #322905
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=mikeboll64,Nov. 25 2012,03:18][/quote]

    Quote
    [QUOTE]Ah, but calling someone a god is a far cry from calling someone “MY God”, right?

    After all, the Father also called Satan “the god of Ekron”, right?  

    Mike,

    WRONG , AND WRONG!!!

    You know what I’m going to do!

    I even eliminate the word “GOD”

    And going through this chapter,(not in this post only) I  will still prove that

    What the Father said it only applies to JESUS GLORIFIED THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT AS THE

    TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST:

    AND YOU WILL ALSO REALIZE HOW MISERABLE, PERMIT TO SAY SO,

    YOUR MENTALITY IS !!!

    NOW READ:

    HEBREWS 1: 1 God, who, at sundry times and in divers manners, spoke in times past to the fathers by the prophets, last of all, 2 In these days hath spoken to us by his Son, whom He  hath appointed HEIR OF ALL THINGS, by whom also He  made the world.

    To simplify the above Paul stated that God, in the past spoke in different times and ways through the prophets. But in those days He spoke through His Son, THIS IS THE IMORTANT PART!!!

    WHOM HE APPOINTED HEIR OF ALL THINGS, by whom He also made the world.

    When a heir acquire the heritage, it would evidently mean that the testator, for a reason or another is no longer administer .

    In God’s case, He made it clear that He would administer both HEAVEN AND EARTH through His Son, for the simple reason that He purposely created entirely all creation through Him, and by him in order to be its heir. THEREFORE ITS GOD. THE TRUE VISIBLE GOD.

    NOW READ:

    3 Who (JESUS)being the brightness of his(THE FATHER’S) glory, and the figure of his(FATHER’S) substance, and upholding all things by the word of his (FATHER’S)power, (JESUS)making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high.

    So it is clear that the Father is functioning in HIS OWN BRIGHTNESS, IN HIS OWN SUBSTANCE, HOLDING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER ,AND MAKING PURGATION OF SINS,THROUGH JESUS, WHO SITS NEXT TO HIM,AS:

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST.

    SO WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT TO ACCEPT  THAT GOD IS ALSO JESUS CHRIST BUT IN FLESH.

    HE MADE HIM HEIR,SO THE FATHER IS NO LONGER FUNCTIONING,AS A SPIRIT ONLY WITHOUT EFFECT ,REGARDING OUR WORLD SINCE IT IS CARNAL AND SINFUL,BUT THROUGH THE ONLY MEDIATOR WITHOUT LOSING THE LEAST OF HIS GENERAL STATE AS GOD. JESUS IS ALL WHAT THE FATHER IS NO MORE NO LESS.

    HE confirmed  HIMSELF that He is our God; I will ascend in full glory of my God and  YOUR GOD!!!

    SO JESUS IS GLORIFIED AS OUR GOD!!!

    APART THAT HE WAS,AND STILL IS  ALSO GLORIFIED AS HIS GOD, WHICH MEANS GOD FOR ALL THE SPIRITUAL CREATURES AS WELL!!! SINCE THEY SAW HIM FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME, WHILE THE FATHER IS STILL INVISBLE!!!

    IF WE DENY THIS WE SIMPLY DENY GOD ALMIGHTY. AND I WILL PROVE THIS FURTHER.

    WE ARE CARNAL CREATURES AND WE HAVE ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, AND THAT IS JESUS CHRIST , WHO IS THE

    ONLY TRUE GOD

    BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH

    BOTH FATHER AND SON

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #322933
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (carmel @ Nov. 30 2012,14:03)
    SO THE EARLIEST THAT JESUS SPOKE TO HER WAS 4.00.


    Okay Charles,

    Your timelines sound reasonable to me. Now what? At 3:00 in the morning, Jesus “raised himself” from the grave and then had to go to HIS OWN GOD to be glorified?

    Please continue……………

    #322934
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (carmel @ Nov. 30 2012,14:33)
    JESUS CONFIRMED THAT HE WAS FULLY GLORIFIED IN HIS GOD  AND OUR GOD,SINCE HE GAVE THEM THE HOLY GHOST!!!


    What do you mean by “glorified IN our God and his God”?

    If Jesus IS our God, what does it mean that he is “glorified in our God”?

    And more importantly, if Jesus IS God Almighty, what does it mean for him to be “glorified in HIS God”?

    And perhaps most importantly, is there a scripture that says Jesus was “glorified in our God and his God”? It seems to me that Jesus said not to touch him because he hadn't yet ascended to our God and his God. The words YOU'RE saying don't come close to matching the words JESUS said.

    #322935
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (carmel @ Nov. 30 2012,15:03)
    In God’s case, He made it clear that He would administer both HEAVEN AND EARTH through His Son, for the simple reason that He purposely created entirely all creation through Him, and by him in order to be its heir. THEREFORE ITS GOD. THE TRUE VISIBLE GOD.


    Read your own words, Charles.

    “In God's case…………..” WHO is that God you speak of? And who is the Son of that God?

    How can you say GOD created all things through Jesus, and appointed Jesus as the rightful HEIR to all these things, and then turn around and say that proves Jesus IS God? ???

    What it proves is that Jesus is someone OTHER THAN the God who created all things through him, and appointed him as heir to those things.

    #322936
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ Nov. 30 2012,02:31)
    what i know mike is ONE GOD refers to the unity.


    So then Jesus is the Son of the unity?

    jammin, this is silly. It is abundantly clear that you WANT the scriptures to say Jesus is the Son of “the Father PART of the Godhead”. But that's not what they say. They say he is the Son of the Most High GOD – not just “the Father part of” the Most High God.

    Listen and learn:

    There is but ONE Most High God, jammin. Jesus either IS that God, or he is the Son of that God. Let the scriptures teach you which one is correct.

    And never forget on your scriptural journey that our God is also the God of Jesus. Our BROTHER Jesus has given us the right to be SONS of God.

    Get it? BROTHERS to Jesus, and SONS to God. Now………. do you suppose that you'll ever be a BROTHER to God Almighty?

    #322978
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=mikeboll64,Dec. 01 2012,12:24][/quote]

    Quote
    How can you say GOD created all things through Jesus, and appointed Jesus as the rightful HEIR to all these things, and then turn around and say that proves Jesus IS God?  

    Mike,

    JESUS INHERITED ALL THINGS,

    SO INHERITED THE TITLE OF THE SPIRITUAL GOD, THROUGH THE UNIFICATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN HIM

    AND THE CARNAL GOD IN HIMSELF AS MAN

    HE BECAME THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST

    BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON!!!

    6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith: And let all the angels of God ADORE HIM!!!

    AND THAT WHEN HE WAS BORN AS MAN

    7And to the angels indeed he saith: He(JESUS) that maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.  

    8 But

    to the Son:

    THIS IS IT MIKE!!!

    Thy throne, O ???, THIS IS THE TRUTH MIKE:

    IT IS THE SON'S THRONE, IT IS HIS DON'T FORGET!  NOT THE FATHER’S,YET!!! AND THERE WON’T BE ANOTHER ONE LIKE IT, AND SUPERIOR TO IT, NOT EVEN WHAT THE FATHER OWNS RIGHT NOW, SINCE IT EVENTUALLY WOULD BE OWNED BY THE FATHER ON THE LAST DAY!!!

    AND WHATEVER GOD DOES IS ONLY TO INCREASE IN HIS RICHES!!!

    SO WHEN HE OWNS THE CURRENT THRONE OF JESUS CHRIST,HE WOULD BE BETTER THAN HE IS NOW,BECAUSE HE WOULD BE:

    ALL IN ALL

    ALL SPIRITUAL CREATURES IN ALL CARNAL CREATRUES.

    BUT SINCE THERE ARE STILL HIS ENEMIES IN POWER ON EARTH,ONLY THROUGH JESUS CHRIST WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT HE CAN GOVERN!!!

    AS THE TRUE GOD(IN THE HOLY SPIRIT) AND JESUS CHRIST (IN HIMSELF)

    THEREFORE IT :

    is for ever and ever:

    THIS THRONE,I REPEAT MIKE!!!

    CHRIST'S THRONE, is for ever and ever, eternal  MIKE, AND ONLY GOD IS ETERNAL!!!  And on this throne, as I said above, THE Father MILLIONS,AND MILLIONS OF YEARS TO COME, ON THE LAST DAY,

    IN THE SAME JESUS’ BODY WOULD SIT ON IT,

    TO BE ALL IN ALL FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THE SON IS HOLDING RIGHT NOW

    A SCEPTER,WHICH THE FATHER HASN’T GOT YET!!!

    EXCEPT  THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!

    A UNIQUE SCEPTER!!!

    a scepter of justice is the scepter of thy kingdom

    DOES THIS MEAN THAT THE SCEPTER WHICH THE FATHER HELD WHEN HE WAS IN HIS GLORY, BEFORE ANYTHING WAS EVER CREATED IT IS USELESS???

    OR RATHER HE NEVER HAD A SCEPTER AT ALL, SINCE HE WAS IN HIS OWN  GLORY???  HE NEVER NEEDED IT, HE WASN’T A KING, OR IN COMMAND OF ANYTHING EXCEPT OF HIS OWN!!!

     
    MORE TRUTH COMING MIKE WITHOUT THE USE OF THE WORD “GOD”

    SO A SCEPTER OF JUSTICE:

    LET’S ANALYZE SCEPTER!!!

    Don’t tell me that you don’t know what a scepter is, or what it signifies!!!

    Still, A SCEPTER SYMBOLIZES TOTAL AUTHORITY:

    SO JESUS OWNS :

    A SCEPTER OF JUSTICE.

    TOTAL AUTHORITY  OF JUSTICE!!!

    Did you ever wondered why the Father exalted Jesus with the title of :

    Total authority of  JUSTICE ???

    LIKE HE IS NOW!!!  AND FOR EVER AND EVER!!! Although according to you HE IS NOT THE TRUE GOD!!!

    TELL ME MIKE, SHOW  ME YOUR CORRUPTED WORLDLY  WISDOM!!!

    YOU WON’T ANSWER THIS SIMPLY BECAUSE IT CONTRADICTS YOUR BELIEF!!!

    ENJOY SOME TRUTH FOR A CHANGE MIKE !!!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #322979
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=mikeboll64,Dec. 01 2012,12:24][/quote]

    Quote
    WHO is that God you speak of?  And who is the Son of that God?

    Mike,

    I don't blame you in being confused,but SINCE YOU ARE NOT READY TO READ ALL MY POSTS, YOU ARE NOT IN THE POSSITION TO DISCERN THE TRUTH AND YOU ARE ASKING QUESTIONS WHICH ARE ALREADY POSTED BEFOREHAND.

    Now TO CARRY ON DISCUSSING HEBREWS 1 let’s analyze the word “JUSTICE”!!!

    So it is evidently clear that the Father never had a scepter, as I explained IN THE OTHER POST so if He never had a scepter , HE NEVER HAD A SCEPTER OF JUSTICE!!!

    GOT IT MIKE!!!

    God the Father was not in the position to perform justice in the truth!!! WITHOUT ANY DOUBT FROM HIS CREATURES!!!

    That’s how useless the Father was, and in the same time still Almighty,due to the fact that He was A mysterious spirit, and the angels couldn’t see!!! They simply had to rely on their faith.

    AND LUCIFER TOOK ADVANTAGE FROM IT AND CONFIRMED HIMSELF ANOTHER GOD!!! HE PROVOKED GOD!!!

    Reflect on the event in the desert, IF YOU ARE GOD DO THIS, AND SO ON.

    HE SIMPLY TOOK IT FOR GRANTED THAT HE CREATED OUR WORLD,AND THE WORLD WAS BEING HELD BY HIM!!! NOT UNLESS GOD PROVES OTHERWISE.

    but NOW!! God, for the first ever time, through His son,

    HE OWNS A SCEPTER, AND HE ALSO CAN PERFORM JUSTICE!!!

    YOU KNOW WHY MIKE???

    BECAUSE GOD ALMIGHTY IS VISIBLE BOTH FOR THE SPIRITUAL AND CARNAL  CREATURES: HE IS NO MORE A MYSTERY!!!

    BUT IN JESUS CHRIST OK???

    USING THE FLESH BODY OF JESUS CHRIST!!! HIS OWN SUBSTANCE!!!

    GOD ALMIGHTY RIGHT NOW, IS OFFICIALLY  ACCEPTED ALMIGHTY ONLY SINCE HE GLORIFIED THROUGH JESUS CHRIST, BECAUSE ONLY JESUS CHRIST HAS THE SCEPTER OF JUSTICE, OF BEING BOTH :

    GOD AND MAN

    SPIRIT AND FLESH

    GOD AND JESUS CHRIST!!!

    Through the HOLY SPIRIT THOUGH!!! BECAUSE THE FATHER IS THE PUREST OF THE PURE SPIRIT,AND UNLESS ALL HIS ENTIRE CREATURES ARE PURE,HE WILL NOT ABIDE IN THEM DIRECTLY!!!

    THERE MUST BE A MEDIATOR.

    JESUS CHRIST, BECAUSE:

    Only Him could perform judgment throughout, since He experienced both  God and human  attributes. HE IS AWARE OF BOTH THE SPIRITUAL AND CARNAL BEINGS’ GENERAL STATE OF AFFAIRS.

    John 8:16 And if I do judge, my judgment is true: because I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me IN ONE GLORIFIED BODY OF JESUS

    THE FATHER was of no use regarding MORTAL SINFULL CREATURES general behavior. In the OT. He only considered their evil general behavior, and it was not possible for God to experience their general feelings and the irresistibility to evil deeds.

    But once the Father had His spirit in Jesus soul, which was the Holy Spirit, and Jesus’ pure flesh, which was Jesus’ Spirit, therefore His entire substances in the

    BODY OF JESUS, THE WORK OF GOD. HE EXPEIENCED ALL HUMAN ATTRIBUTES

    Now to the last phrase:

    is the sceptre of thy kingdom

    SO this SCEPTER of JUSTICE belongs to the kingdom of the Son!!!

    SO TO REMIND YOU MIKE,

    JESUS' KINGDOM, NOT THE FATHER'S, and in the same time THE FATHER’S BUT THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT!!! OK MR. MIKE,

    IS A TOTAL AUTHORITY OF JUSTCE, AND ALSO FOR EVER AND EVER!!!

    I WONDER WHY THE FATHER BOTHERED TO CALL HIS SON GOD!!!

    SINCE THERE WAS NO NEED TO!!!

    OH YES I KNOW WHY!!!

    BECAUSE :

    JESUS IS THE ONLY KING IN HEAVEN WHO OWNS A UNIQUE KINGDOM OF BOTH SPIRITUAL AND FLESH CREATURES!!! AND HIS ANGELS ARE ADHORING HIM.

    6 ………………… And let all the angels of God adore him. AND HE IS NOT GOD??? AND HOW HE IS, HE IS UNIQUE!!! HE IS THE TRUE GOD!!!

    SO THEY MAY KNOW YOU THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST.

    BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON

    THAT'S WHY IT IS CALLED HIS KINGDOM!!!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #322981
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote
     Jesus is still a servant of his God, Charles. (Acts 4:30, etc.)

    Mike,

    This is the verse which I like MOST!!!

    13 But to which of the angels said he at any time: Sit on my right hand, until I make thy enemies thy footstool?

    THE FATHER SAID:

    SIT ON MY RIGHT HAND, UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES YOUR FOOTSTOOL!!!

    You Mike, incessantly, AND IN A WAY, I AGREE, STATES that Jesus is STILL the servant of the Father!

    BUT WHAT HAVE WE GOT HERE ???

    THE SON IS SITTING ON HIS THRONE,AND THE FATHER CONFIRMS THAT IT IS HIS TURN TO SERVE HIS SON!!!

    You never stated this !!!

    OK MIKE???

    THE FATHER FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS TO COME, WILL SERVE HIS SON TILL HE MAKES JESUS’ ENEMIES HIS FOOTSTOOL!!!

    Notice Mike, it says Jesus’ enemies, not the Father’s enemies.

    HE DIDN’T SAY:

    Until I make MY ENEMIES your footstool.

    DID YOU NOTICE THIS TRUTH MIKE???

    So God is serving the Son till He makes His Son’s enemies His footstool. AND JESUS IS NOT GOD???

    DO WE HAVE GOD SERVING A BEING WHO IS NOT GOD???

    OR RATHER GOD SERVING A UNIQUE GOD,

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST

    BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON!!!

    AND THERE’S NO EXCUSE, NOW!!!

    WHICH IN THE CASE OF THE FATHER WAS, SINCE HE IS STILL A MYSTERIOUS SPIRIT AND CANNOT BE SEEN.

    John 15:22   IF I HAD NOT COME, AND SPOKEN TO THEM,THEY WOULD NOT HAVE SIN; BUT NOW  THEY HAVE NO EXCUSE FOR THEIR SIN.
    23 He that hateth me, hateth my Father also. 24 If I had not done among them the works that no other man hath done, they would not have sin;

    BUT NOW THEY HAVE BOTH SEEN AND HATED BOTH ME AND MY FATEHR .

    SO JESUS IS BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON!!!

    25 But that the word may be fulfilled which is written in their law: They hated me without cause.

    So Now my question Mike is,

    Does this mean that GOD THE FATHER, is serving His Son, WHO ACCORDING TO YOU, IS NOT GOD right now???

    OR RATHER GOD THE FATHER is serving His own UNIQUE TRULY  GOD???

    Since Jesus is HIS SON, He isn’t also HIS GOD, in the same way  :

    That His Son’s Kingdom is also the father’s kingdom

    GOD’S  kingdom???

    Peace and love in  Jesus

    Charles

    #323003
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel……….Jesus is not both Father and Son. that is an oxymoron you can't be both at one time. God the Father who is a Spirt was in Jesus But that does not make the person that God is in a God of anykind. Scripture says that God may be “IN” ALL and “Through” ALL. Yopur problem is you as well as many here do not Know waht a Spirit is. God is a Spirit and Jesus is a Man. Scripture says God is not a man that he should lie or a “SON OF MAN” that he should repent. I think maybe you are not putting “ALL” the scriptures together reguarding what you believe on this subject brother.

    peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………………………..gene

    #323021
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (carmel @ Nov. 30 2012,23:45)
    IT IS THE SON'S THRONE, IT IS HIS DON'T FORGET! NOT THE FATHER’S,YET!!! AND THERE WON’T BE ANOTHER ONE LIKE IT, AND SUPERIOR TO IT, NOT EVEN WHAT THE FATHER OWNS RIGHT NOW, SINCE IT EVENTUALLY WOULD BE OWNED BY THE FATHER ON THE LAST DAY!!!


    You are confused, Charles. Jesus will rule forever, not from God's throne, but from the throne of God's servant David. (Luke 1:32, Ezekiel 34:23-24, 37:24)

    (Btw, if you said anything important in the latter part of your post, please bring it up again. I only read far enough into your posts to find a single issue I can scripturally refute. I stop reading after I've found one.)

    #323022
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (carmel @ Dec. 01 2012,00:06)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 01 2012,12:24)
    WHO is that God you speak of?  And who is the Son of that God?

    God the Father was not in the position to perform justice in the truth!!!


    This is just nonsense, Charles. Is there an actual answer to my question somewhere in that manifesto? If so, then please post that answer in A WORD OR TWO.

    #323023
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=mikeboll64,Dec. 01 2012,12:18][/quote]

    Quote
    What do you mean by “glorified IN our God and his God”?

    If Jesus IS our God, what does it mean that he is “glorified in our God”?

    And more importantly, if Jesus IS God Almighty, what does it mean for him to be “glorified in HIS God”?

    Mike,

    Again:

    You simply  both do not read all my post, and also do not reflect enough!!!

    Or unless my English is not clear enough, which I believe it is also probable!!!

    SO:

    YOU ASKED: If Jesus IS our God, what does it mean that he is “glorified in our God”?

    When Jesus was on earth, HE WAS NOT ACCEPTED BY EVERYBODY THAT HE WAS :

    GOD IN FLESH. WHICH MEANS  THE SPIRIT OF THE FATHER IN JESUS’ FLESH BODY. OBVIOUS IN HIS SOUL!!!

    WE ALSO HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IN OUR SOUL, BUT JESUS’ SOUL WAS THE HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF, SINCE MARY WAS CONCEIVED THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

    JESUS WAS NOT EVEN ACCEPTED BY SOME OF HIS OWN DISCIPLES:

    BUT AFTER HE DIED,AND THROUGH HIS DEATH ERADICATED SATAN’S DOMINION ON EARTH THROUGHOUT.

    HE WAS OFFICIALLY DECLARED:

    GOD OF ALL FLESH:

    SINCE HE WAS THE ONLY SPIRIT BEING TO BE BORN AS MAN,MANIFESTED GOD’S ATTRIBUTES, DIED, AND GLORIFIED THROUGH DEATH ITSELF AND MANIFESTED HIS SUPERIORITY  AMONG ALL THE ENTIRE SPIRITS.

    AND GOD OF ALL SPIRITS.

    FIRST SINCE ONLY HE ACHIEVED THIS FLESH GLORIFICATION,

    SECOND BECAUSE THE FATHER UNITED WITH HIM THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!

    AND BECAME ONE SUBSTANCE!!!

    You also asked:

    And more importantly, if Jesus IS God Almighty, what does it mean for him to be “glorified in HIS God”?

    When Jesus walked on earth He was  a human being, and not yet glorified !!!

    He was a SINLESS man, and WITH THE EXCEPTION THAT HE HAD THE SPIRIT OF THE FATHER IN HIS SOUL.

    HE HAD TO DIE IN ORDER TO GLORIFY AS A MAN FIRST,SINCE HE DIED AS MAN!!!

    TO ERADICATE THE DEATH, SATAN’S ASSET!!!

    SOMETHING THAT TRUE JESUS FROM THEN ON, ALL CHRISTIANS SHOULD DO!!!

    GOD NEVER DIED, SO GOD ALSO NEVER RESURRECTED.

    It is the same story when He was born, HE WAS NOT BORN IN FULL POWER OF GOD.

    Luke 2:52 And Jesus  ADVANCED IN WISDOM , and age, and GRACE with GOD and MEN.

    IT IS CLEAR NO!!!

    THEN ON BAPTIZM HE ACQUIRED OFFICIALLY THE FULL POWER OF THE FATHER.

    ALSO IN THE WEDDING IN CANA, HE CONFIRMED THAT IT WAS NOT HIS TIME YET.

    THEN GLORIFIED IN HIS GOD AFTER  WITH THE UNIFICATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT FROM THE FATHER, AND BECAME ONE SUBSTANCE.

    NOT ANYMORE TWO, LIKE HE WAS WHEN HE WALKED ON EARTH!!! FULLY GOD SPIRITUALLY IN JESUS’ SOUL, AND FULLY MAN IN JESUS’ FLESH!!!

    BUT ONE SUBSTANCE IN

    BOTH AS HIS GOD (SPIRIT) AND OUR GOD (CARNAL)

    Therefore:

    WE ARE SUBJECTS ONLY TO HIM NOT TO THE FATHER.

    THE SPIRITUAL CREATURES ARE ALSO SUBJECTS TO JESUS FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT HE IS VISIBLE TO THEM, THEY ARE NO LONGER RELYING ON THEIR FAITH AS WELL SINCE JESUS GLORIFIED AND BECAME IN FULL GLORY OF THE FATHER.

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #323024
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (carmel @ Dec. 01 2012,00:13)

    Quote (mikeboll @ 64)
    Jesus is still a servant of his God, Charles. (Acts 4:30, etc.)

    So God is serving the Son till He makes His Son’s enemies His footstool.


    So if Jehovah gives me the strength to move a mountain, He is my “SERVANT”?  I am the “MASTER” of God Almighty because He helps me?   ???

    Well, if the fact that Jehovah HELPS Jesus makes Jesus the God that Jehovah “serves”, then we are all God Almighty – not just Jesus.

    Charles, I honestly don't know where you come up with your ideas.  They are certainly not from God-given common sense, nor from scripture.

    #323025
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (carmel @ Dec. 01 2012,12:57)
    WE ARE SUBJECTS ONLY TO HIM NOT TO THE FATHER.


    Oh brother! ???

    Charles, what you practice is called “diversion flooding”. There used to be a member here named “Worshipping Jesus”, who was a master at this technique. The idea is to fill each post with SO MUCH stuff, that it would take the other person hours to refute each unscriptural and nonsensical claim.

    I don't have time for all this nonsense. If you want to discuss scripture with me, post a SENTENCE OR TWO about one particular thing you believe. Then we will take to the scriptures and see if they really teach what you claim they do.

    You can start by explaining your scripture above in light of 1 Cor 8:6. For US, there is but one God, and the one He made Lord over us. How are we not subjects of our one God? ???

    (Remember, just a SENTENCE OR TWO, along with a SCRIPTURE OR TWO to support your two sentences.)

    #323035
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 02 2012,05:56)

    Quote (carmel @ Dec. 01 2012,00:06)
    God the Father was not in the position to perform justice in the truth!!!


    This is just nonsense, Charles.  


    What?  Did Charles really say that?  ???

    #323044
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote
    Carmel……….Jesus is not both Father and Son. that is an oxymoron you can't be both at one time

    Gene,

    ARE YOU CONSIDERING THIS EVEN REGARDING GOD???

    Quote
    Jesus is not both Father and Son.

    John 14:9 Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip,

    HE THAT SEETH ME SEETH THE FATHER ALSO.

    How sayest thou, Shew us the Father?

    Quote
    God the Father who is a Spirt was in Jesus But that does not make the person that God is in a God of anykind.

    GENE : You should have written the above properly READ:

    FATHER (SPIRIT)IN THE SON (JESUS)NO???

    OR!

    GOD THE FATHER WHO IS A SPIRIT WAS IN JESUS WHO IS FLESH. OK???

    SO THE SPIRIT (GOD)WAS IN THE FLESH.( JESUS)OK???

    OR PROPERLY STILL

    GOD IN FLESH OK???

    WHAT'S WRONG WITH :

    GOD IN FLESH ???

    FATHER IN THE SON ???

    DIDN'T JESUS CONFIRM THAT THE FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING,AND ONLY THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE???

    SO IF THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE TO THE FLESH,

    THAT PARTICULAR FLESH IS THE MANIFESTATION OF THAT PARTICULAR SPIRIT NO???

    SO JESUS' FLESH BODY,WAS ONLY ALIVE THROUGH THE FATHER'S SPIRIT NO??? SINCE THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE!!!

    SO JESUS IS THE FATHER MANIFESTED NO???

    SO JESUS IS THE FATHER AS LONG AS THE FATHER REMAINS IN HIM NO???

    NOW READ:

     Hebrews 1:3 Who (JESUS)being the brightness of his(THE FATHER’S) glory, and the figure of his(FATHER’S) substance, and upholding all things by the word of his (FATHER’S)power, (JESUS)making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high.

    So it is clear that the Father is functioning in

    HIS OWN BRIGHTNESS,

    IN HIS OWN SUBSTANCE,

    HOLDING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER ,

    AND MAKING PURGATION OF SINS,THROUGH JESUS, WHO SITS NEXT TO HIM,AS:

    THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST.

    SO WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT TO ACCEPT  THAT GOD IS ALSO JESUS CHRIST BUT IN FLESH.

    Quote
    Yopur problem is you as well as many here do not Know waht a Spirit is.

    GENE, I NEVER BELIEVED THAT ON EARTH THERE IS A PERSON WHO KNOWS SPECIFICALLY, AND TRULY :

    WHAT A SPIRIT IS!!!

    ALSO SINCE:

    Quote
    God is a Spirit and Jesus is a Man.

    SO DO YOU KNOW THAT ON THE CROSS THERE WAS A BODY OF THAT MAN JESUS WHICH HELD ALL THE SPIRITS OF:
                  

    THE FATHER      

    THE SON      

    THE HOLY SPIRIT

    AND 

    SATAN

    Isaiah: 45: I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.

    Psalm 139:But darkness shall not be dark to thee, and night shall be light as day: the darkness thereof, and the light thereof are alike to thee.

    ALSO SINCE:

    Quote
    God is a Spirit and Jesus is a Man.

    John8:23 And he said to them: You are from beneath, I am from above. You are of this world, I am not of this world.

    IF JESUS IS A MAN AND CONFIRMED THAT HE WAS NOT OF THIS WORLD, ARE YOU ALSO NOT OF THIS WORLD SINCE YOU ARE A MAN LIKE JESUS, AND KNOW ALL ABOUT SPIRITS????

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

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