John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 23,881 through 23,900 (of 26,009 total)
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  • #943009
    Berean
    Participant

    @ Jodi

    what you say is not right
    JESUS DID NOT NEED THE FORGIVENESS OF HIS OWN SINS, AND THEREFORE TO BE BAPTIZED TO BE PURIFIED FROM SIN.

    FOR JESUS IS THE FLAWLESS AND SPOTLESS LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD.

    JOHN THE BAPTIST PROCLAIMED IT
    THUS EVEN BEFORE HIS BAPTISM (in the present tense)
    John 1:28 These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
    [29] The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, 👉Behold the Lamb of God, which takesth away the sin of the world.👈

    PIERRE ALSO AFTER:
    1Peter
    But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb 👉without blemish and without spot:👈

    Jesus was and always was without sin:

    Heb.4:15
    For we have not a high priest who cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, 👉yet without sin.👈

    IF JESUS HAD BEEN A SINNERMAN, HE WOULD NEED A SAVIOR, BUT THIS IS NOT THE CASE.
    He never said that God was his savior, his God, YES, but not his savior because of his own sin.

    The baptism of Jesus was his commitment to bear the sins of the world to save the world from sin.
    But in no way did he need to be cleansed from sin to be our saviour.

    And yes Jodi, sweeping away the pre-existence of Christ and his divinity leads you to make untenable statements.

    🙏

    #943011
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You: The glory that Jesus received upon rising from the dead is glory written by the prophets since the world began. 

    This is the glory that Jesus asked for that was of God for this Son of Man from even before the world began. 

    Me: Scripture:

    John17:1 THESE things Jesus spoke, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said:

    Father, the hour is come,

    glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee. 

    Jodi, the glory mentioned by Jesus is not the glory that you are referring to

    ON HIS RESURRECTION ON THE THIRD DAY!

    READ AND REFLECT PLEASE:

    the hour is come,

    glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee. 

    THE ABOVE JODI IS A REFERENCE TO JESUS DEATH NOT TO HIS RESURRECTION!

    Unless you understand the process of Jesus’ death, you will never be aware of

    THE TRUE GLORY OF JESUS!

    THE LORD OF GLORY! Read Please:

    1Corinthians 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew; for if they had known it,

    they would never have crucified the

    Lord of glory.

    Jodi, JESUS WAS ALREADY THE LORD OF GLORY BEFORE HIS CRUSIFICTION! 

    Well clear in

    John 13:3 Knowing that the Father had given him all things into his hands,

    and that he came from God, and goeth to God; 

    31 When he therefore was gone out, Jesus said:

    Now is the Son of man glorified,

    and God is glorified in him.

    32If God be glorified in him,

    God also will glorify him in himself;

    and immediately will he glorify him.

    Jodi what the above scripture tells you specifically about

    THE SON OF MAN and :

    HIS GLORY 

    YOU NEVER PRODUCED THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE Jodi !

    Why didn’t you do so?

    THAT WILL DO FOR NOW!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #943013
    Jodi
    Participant

    First thing to recognize is Jesus suffered and then entered into his glory when he rose from the dead and was a flesh and bones immortal human being. That indeed was glory and was a promise fulfilled that had been of God for him and all of mankind since before the world began, where Jesus became a firstborn of many of eternal life.

    Then Jesus teaches about himself according to all that the holy prophets spoke about him since the world began, where therein there was a great deal of glory that had been promised by YHVH to be fulfilled in ONE HUMAN BEING. Jesus was teaching that he was IN God’s WORD before the world began. He is the man who has our Creator YHVH’s Spirit living in him where through that Spirit he will judge mankind and bring forth righteousness and peace upon the earth.

     

    #943016
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi to all

    Here is the Daily Devotional

    IMPAIRED TO THE GLORY OF GOD

     

    Louis Braille (1809–1852) is the inventor of the Braille system of reading for the blind. Through a series of organized bumps that represent letters, this system allows people with no light perception to enjoy the same written materials as people with normal sight. Mr. Braille was not born blind, however. He became blind after accidentally stabbing himself in the eye with his father’s awl.

    Though it was a personal tragedy, Mr. Braille’s unfortunate accident led him to develop the Braille system, which is still widely used today. Countless numbers of blind and visually impaired people have benefitted from the invention. Thus, his accident led to a much larger good that has served many people since.

    Jesus was called to heal a blind man who was begging. His disciples asked whether it was his own or his parents’ sin that caused him to be blind. Christ’s answer was that neither party’s sin caused the blindness, but rather that he was born blind so “the works of God should be revealed in him” (John 9:3). God does not permit His children to suffer unwarrantedly.

    Though the blind man surely suffered throughout his life, his blindness caused Him to “see” Jesus for who He really was, and it led to his salvation. Additionally, his story has strengthened the faith of many Bible students throughout time.

    When tragedy strikes, we must remember that God is bigger than the tragedy and that He must have a larger purpose in mind—or else He would have prevented the tragedy from occurring. Like Mr. Braille and the blind man in Jesus’ day, we should allow God to use our suffering to His glory. Great good, and even salvation, can come from surrendering to God in the midst of hardship.

    KEY BIBLE TEXTS
    And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness. Isaiah 29:18 

    God bless

    From Amazing facts

    #943017
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Carmel,  what Jodi said here is “exactly right”…..”First thing to recognize is Jesus suffered and then entered into his glory when he rose from the dead and was a flesh and bones immortal human being. That indeed was glory and was a promise fulfilled that had been of God for him and all of mankind since before the world began, where Jesus became a firstborn of many of eternal life.

    Then Jesus teaches about himself according to all that the holy prophets spoke about him since the world began, where therein there was a great deal of glory that had been promised by YHVH to be fulfilled in ONE HUMAN BEING. Jesus was teaching that he was IN God’s WORD before the world began. He is the man who has our Creator YHVH’s Spirit living in him where through that Spirit he will judge mankind and bring forth righteousness and peace upon the earth”

    Carmel,  if the “SPIRIT OF TRUTH”, abided in you you would know that”  

    peace and love to you and yours Carmel………gene

     

    #943018
    Jodi
    Participant

    Good Morning Berean,

    John didn’t know that he needed to baptize Jesus, he actually thought otherwise, and Jesus said it must be done in order to fulfill all righteousness, what does that tell you?

    Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    Berean, to me it seem like you have some major blinders on!

    The fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness righteousness and truth (Eph 5:9)

    A man was to receive the Spirit of God and bring forth judgement to the Gentiles according to Isaiah. Also according to Isaiah in that same chapter YHVH would call this man to righteousness, where he would be sent out into the world to be for a light unto the Gentiles.

    Do I really have to spell this out for you? Are you really going to continue denying that Jesus was a man whom God called to righteousness? If Jesus was without sin, then he wouldn’t need to be baptized and he most certainly wouldn’t need to be called to righteousness.

    We see Jesus was indeed baptized and then he received the Spirit without measure, he was thus filled with all goodness, righteousness and truth, which is exactly why YHVH had said that He would call him to righteousness, the giving of His Spirit unto him was a calling to righteousness.

    YHVH had purpose for calling this man to righteousness, where He said that He would hold his hand and keep him. That purpose was for him to fulfill God’s covenant and be for a light that brings forth salvation unto eternal life. What was God keeping him from, so that he could fulfill God’s covenant? God called him to righteousness, having God’s Spirit/seed remain in him, where God held his hand and KEPT HIM FROM SIN! 

    1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    Berean, it could not be more clear, at the moment that Jesus had the Spirit descend upon him he was indeed called to righteousness, he was indeed born of God not capable of sin as God’s seed remained upon him, which is exactly why at that moment the Spirit came to dwell in him, God declared this man to be His Son. This is God’s WORD manifested in the flesh, God’s promise unto a son of David made true, where God made a son of David into His own Son.

    This was also declared by Jesus as his ANOINTING, him being made into the promised Messiah. 

    1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 

    In the anointed Jesus there is no sin and our savior is according to a promise made to David concerning his seed. 

    The word of God was not that He would send down an only begotten son to be our savior who would empty himself and be made into a seed of David. The word of God is that He would make David’s son into His own Son and give him His Spirit without measure for the purpose of him to be our savior. We are saved through the Spirit of God dwelling in one man without measure, why the son of David who was promised to be made into a Son of God and promised to be a Messiah, was given a name that means YHVH is salvation. 

    Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

    John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    Deut 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

    John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    TRUTH came by Jesus Christ because he was the only mortal human born of God’s Spirit without measure anointed to be sent out to speak God’s word of TRUTH whereby people could be saved. THIS WAS GOD’S WORD before the world began. 

    This is why we read prior to John 1:17 in that same chapter about the LIGHT, that LIGHT was the LIGHT of God’s WORD spoken by Isaiah that comes through God calling a man to righteousness by begetting him with His Spirit. Thus why we read in verse 14 that the WORD of God was made true in the flesh and people beheld the glory of the only begotten Son filled with grace and truth. He was filled with the Spirit, which we read in verse 32 and we read in verse 34 that John bore record that THIS WAS THE SON OF GOD. 

    YHVH is righteous and the source for human righteousness and “the Spirit is life because of righteousness”.  God’s everlasting covenant declared from the beginning was a promise of righteousness through being born of God’s Spirit where therein comes eternal life. The righteousness of one man has given us access to the One Spirit and he is our example, for he received the Spirit and it brought forth his obedience which brought forth his resurrection where he received the promised Spirit and eternal life. 

    In the beginning was the WORD of God’s everlasting covenant, that covenant was fulfilled in the man Jesus where it then gave us access to have it be fulfilled in us, which was also God’s WORD from the beginning.

     

    #943019
    Berean
    Participant

    @Jodi

    “If Jesus was without sin, then he wouldn’t need to be baptized and he most certainly wouldn’t need to be called to righteousness.”

    Me

    For he (God) hath made him (Jesus) to be sin for us, 👉who knew no sin; 👈that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (Jesus)  (2Corinthians 5:21)

    This verse sums up EVERYTHING GOD HAS DONE FOR US, THROUGH HIS SON, TO SAVE US.

    May God bless You.

    🙏

    #943020
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    Paul is speaking of CHRIST who is the ANOINTED JESUS. Jesus was baptized and then was called to righteousness, begotten of God’s Spirit without measure at the river Jordan, by such he could not sin and therefore the ANOINTED JESUS knew no sin.

    2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
    18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
    19 To wit, that God was IN Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
    20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ‘s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
    21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    #943021
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    Apply the fact that the child Jesus, son of David, was a human to whom many prophesies written in the OT would be fulfilled in him.  In scripture Jesus is given this identity, called what he is ACCORDING TO PROPHECY that will be fulfilled in him.

    Matthew 2:4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.

    Matthew 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

    John 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

    John 12:13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

    The baby Jesus, the child Jesus, the anointed man Jesus, the Jesus at God’s right hand, his destiny from God is to be king of Israel. Jesus is identified as that king because he is going to be that king. This is the same with the asking of where Christ will be born, Jesus is identified as the Christ because that is who he is going to become according to God’s word.

    Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

    The above is a bit of a different story because the angel is in this case directly expressing prophecy with saying “he shall be”, “shall be”, “shall give” and “shall reign”. This prophecy is not knew from the angel, it’s directly from the OT in 1 Chronicles 17, where the Son of God has nothing to do with pre-existing but rather everything to do with a promise to be fulfilled in a human son of David.

    Something else to keep in mind is the fact that when the authors were writing the NT, Jesus was sitting at God’s right hand at that time.  So they could reference Jesus acknowledging who he is now while they speak of him according to another time and place when prophesies had not yet been fulfilled in him.

    #943022
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You: John DIDN’T KNOW that he needed to baptize Jesus, 

    Me: Jodi, you are excellent when it comes to your CORRUPTED ANALYZES! 

    Scripture:

    John 1:23 He said: I am the voice of one crying out in the wilderness,

    make straight the way of the Lord,

    as said the prophet Isaias.

    Matthew 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet?

    yea, I say unto you,

    and more than a prophet.

    Jodi, WHY DID JESUS CALL JOHN:

    MORE THAN A PROPHET?

    WHAT ACTUALLY THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE TELLS YOU REGARDING JOHN?

    DIDN’T YOU ANALYZE WHO JOHN IN ACTUAL FACT WAS, IF HE WAS

    MORE THAN A PROPHET?

    Keep on reading with the hope that you clear your MIND with every respect!

    10 For this is he, of whom it is written,

    Behold, I send my messenger before thy face,

    which shall prepare thy way before thee.

    ANALYZE THIS TITLE FROM GOD PLEASE:

    “MY MESSENGER”

    I’ll give you  hand:

    NOT ALL THE ANGELS ARE 

    GOD’S MESSENGERS?

    WHY IN THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE DIDN’T SAY JUST

    Behold I send A MESSENGER…..?

    WHAT CAN YOU MAKE OUT OF THIS PERCEPTION PLEASE, Jodi?

    SAY SOMETHING PLEASE!

    Wait, wait, let’s continue reading to give YOU more LIGHT, as you are completely in

    PITCH DARKNESS. With every respect!

    11Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a

    greater than John the Baptist:

    notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 

    DO YOU ACCEPT JESUS’OWN WORDS Jodi, and Gene?

    THAT JOHN THE BAPTIST IS THE GREATEST PROPHET!

    NOW COMES YOUR MISAPPREHENSION:

    You: John DIDN’T KNOW that he needed to baptize Jesus, 

    I AM NOT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING FOR NOW, LET’S KEEP ON READING!

    12And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven

    suffereth violence,

    and the violent take it by force. 

    CAN YOU MAKE SOMETHING OUT OF THIS AS WELL? SAY SOMETHING!

    WHAT HAPPENED TO JOHN SINCE HE CAME, I MAKE IT CLEAR TO YOU!

    AND REMOVED SATAN FROM ALL SINNERS FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME ON EARTH, AT LEAST TEMPORARILY AS HUMANS WOULD EVENTUALLY FALL AGAIN, SINCE JESUS, ATTENTION PLEASE,

    DIDN’T YET 

    MAKE ALL JUSTICE THROUGH HIS BAPTISM!

    THE PROPER  CLEAR WORDS Jodi!

    ALL JUSTICE!

    DO YOU KNOW WHY? NO, YOU DON’T  I’M AFRAID! I WILL LET YOU KNOW THOUGH, BUT NOT JUST NOW!

    13For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 

    14And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

     15He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    DID YOU HEAR THAT Jodi, and Gene?

    KEEP IN MIND THAT

    ELIAH NEVER DIED!

    Now Jodi to conclude as I must leave, I LET YOU READ hereunder and PLEASE PONDER DEEPLY AND ANALYZE SUFFICIENTLY IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO DECLARE AGAIN WHAT YOU CORRUPTEDLY SAID:

    You: John DIDN’T KNOW that he needed to baptize Jesus, 

    Luke: 13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 

    15For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord,

    and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink;

    and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost,

    even from his mother’s womb.

     16And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 

    17And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias,

    to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children,

    and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just;

    to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

    HA , HA, HA, JOHN DIDN’T KNOW that he needed to baptize Jesus, 

     

    You: If Jesus was without sin, then he wouldn’t need to be baptized and he most certainly wouldn’t need to be called to righteousness.

    Matthew 3:14 But John stayed him, saying: I ought to be baptized by thee, and comest thou to me? 15And Jesus answering, said to him: Suffer it to be so now.

    For so it becometh US to fulfill ALL JUSTICE.

    Then he suffered him.

    WAIT FOR THE NEXT POST Jodi  and Gene,

    HUMBLY SPEAKING, IF GOD PERMITS I TELL YOU ALL ABOUT THE ABOVE!

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #943023
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Jodi

    As long as you ignore the pre-existence and divinity of Christ and what God really did through him, (who knew no sin: 2 Cor.5:21) You will remain thirsty and go around in circles tirelessly.

    John 6:40

    And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which
    👉seeth the Son👈,

    and 👉believeth on him👈,

    👉may have everlasting
    life👈:

    and👉 I(Jesus) will raise him up at the last day.👈

     

    John 12:45 ] And he that👉 seeth me👈 👉seeth him👈 that sent me.

    🙏

    #943026
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    Your assessment is rather inaccurate.

    Repeating scriptures many times over that connect directly with each other and outlining the facts that are held in them because you continue not to apply any of it, and much of it you won’t even address, is not me going around in circles being thirsty. Debating with you that causes me to read more and more scripture has only exposed all the further how weak and deceptive your doctrine is.

    I have brought the argument forth twice now and you can’t even acknowledge it, the anointed Jesus is said to have remained without sin, this is not the same as saying Jesus from his birth remained without sin.

    In Luke 4:18,  The man Jesus declared that the Spirit came upon him because God ANOINTED him to SEND him out into the world to do God’s work and fulfill God’s will, which included shedding his blood on the cross to set us free. 

    Jesus was born having the destiny to be made into the Christ of YHVH’s prophecy, YHVH’s WORD declared from the beginning, His calling of one man to righteousness who would then be sent to bring forth righteousness to many.

    Eph 5:9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth

    John 3:34 For he whom God hath SENT speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 

    Berean, to say that God sent a pre-existing Jesus to be a human baby in order to free us of our sins is a LIE and is a worthless doctrine, the truth is far richer, meaningful and impactful.

    You can’t even acknowledge a few basic clear given truths, YHVH our Father saves us through His Spirit upon the man Jesus and the fruit of that Spirit in Jesus is in all goodness, RIGHTEOUNESS and truth, why we read prophecy of a man who would be called to righteousness to fulfill God’s covenant and be for a light, a man through his righteousness by the Spirit thus able to be obedient going to the cross to shed his blood to set us free.  The calling to righteousness IS BEING BORN OF GOD, BEGOTTEN OF HIS SPIRIT.

    1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

    Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

    17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

    18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

    19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    1 John 3 aligns perfectly with what Paul teaches in Romans 8. The Son of God and the Children of God are manifested in the SAME WAY, through being born of God’s Spirit.

    When you are born of the Spirit you are “led by the Spirit and thus are Sons of God” (Romans 8:14)

    When the Spirit is dwelling in your own spirit it bears witness that you are a child of God (Romans 8:16)

    We are heirs of God’s Spirit, joint heirs with the anointed Jesus and such makes us thus into the image of the Son, the firstborn of many. YHVH promised that he would make a son of David into His own Son and would make him into His firstborn Son, higher than all the kings.

    Your Son of God Berean is a figment of your imagination, some kind of divine spirit being that came to earth to be a human. God’s Son Jesus and all who are to be made into the image of the Son and thus made Sons of God as well, represent a human begotten of God’s Spirit to the cause of righteousness, being led in all of God’s ways.  

    Jesus is called God’s only begotten Son because he was the only mortal human called to righteousness having received the Spirit not by measure, where by such he was filled with grace and truth and people beheld his glory as he was sent out to perform God’s works in God’s name. By that Spirit he existed in the form of God where he saw himself equal to God but was an obedient servant only following God’s will, where he humbled himself going to the cross, where he found himself in likeness of man when he was numbered with transgressors as a sinner, when God made him who knew no sin to be sin for us.

     

    #943027
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    Let’s take a look at the surrounding text of John 12:45 and how we can apply it all to other passages where then the truth can be established.

    44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
    45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
    46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
    47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
    48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
    2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
    3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
    4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
    5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
    6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
    7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
    8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

    John 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Apply the prophecy that a man would receive God’s Spirit and be called to righteousness to that of 1 John 3 that speaks of righteousness coming through being born of God and that the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth Eph 5:9. Being a begotten Son is having the Spirit aboding in you which causes righteousness. 

    When we read from each of the Gospels about the Spirit descending upon the man Jesus, he is declared to be God’s Son at that moment.

    Also, when we read of he who received the Spirit not by measure and was sent to speak God’s word of TRUTH, this man is also declared to be the Son of God. Total blindness to say that him being declared God’s Son has nothing to do with the fact that the Spirit of God came to abode in him.

    Also think about how John chapter 1 speaks of a LIGHT, which that LIGHT according to prophecy is through God’s Spirit coming to dwell in a man a calling to righteousness which is said to be GLORY given to NO OTHER. Think about how the Spirit is upon Jesus for him to be sent out into the world among the people to speak the TRUTH. When we come to verse 14 of John 1, we are clearly reading God’s WORD of Isaiah having been made true in the man of flesh Jesus. Jesus was begotten of God’s Spirit not by measure filled with grace and TRUTH, to be SENT to be for a light, being the glory that God had promised to no other and the people beheld that glory given to ONLY ONE man. 

    The only begotten Son that was SENT out into the world filled with grace and truth is Jesus because he is the ONLY man that was indeed begotten of God’s Spirit not by measure having such a glory.

    As this man begotten of God’s Spirit’s without measure was sent for the purpose to speak God’s TRUTH, do God’s work and fulfill only God’s will and not his own, by such he was in the form of God and made himself a servant of God and is exactly why we read in John 12,  “He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me and he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.”

    The him that was SENT was the man that received the Spirit for to be a LIGHT, God’s word made true in the flesh, why we read in John 12, “I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.”

    But Berean, you do not believe in who was actually sent into the world to be for a light who was actually sent having become God’s only begotten Son. You do not believe in the glory of Jesus as it is directly given to you. You also do not want to apply the fact that God declared the End from the beginning where He would call ONE MAN to fulfill His purpose for having created all things in the first place, to bring forth righteousness upon all the earth. You don’t want to apply that it is a Son of Man at God’s right hand and a Son of Man who is returning in the glory of our Father having God’s Spirit upon him given all the earth to rule over bringing it forth in peace and righteousness, fulfilling God’s purpose for having created all things in the first place. A man is going to come and sit on an eternal throne, the throne of his father David. All things were created by YHVH, by His power, His Wisdom, His Discretion through the utterance of His own voice, all by reason of this man and for this man.

    #943028
    Berean
    Participant

    Jodi

    Throughout his life, the Son of God knew no sin.
    Jesus’ baptism was not for his sins.

    🙏

    #943029
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    You have a correct statement, “the Son of God knew no sin”.

    When Jesus was baptized he then was born of God’s Spirit where he was called to righteousness and could not sin. He died but then was raised having received God’s Spirit.

    Would you mind speaking specifically to these 3 passages below?

    Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles…6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

    Ephesians 5:9 For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth.

    1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

     

    #943030
    Berean
    Participant

    @Jodi 

    “Quand Jésus a été baptisé, il est alors né de l’Esprit de Dieu où il a été appelé à la justice et ne pouvait pas pécher. Il est mort mais a ensuite été ressuscité après avoir reçu l’Esprit de Dieu.” 

    Me

    I’m sorry, no scripture AFFIRM this.

    🙏

    #943035
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi……scripture says, not me …….“unless the lord build the house , the weary builders, build in “Vain”.  

    These people have not the Spirit of truth abiding”in” them, or they could easily see what we are saying.  That is why I believe, Desire truth,  has stopped posting,  he sees the futility in speaking to those who have not the love of truth of truth,  in them .

    Sad Jodi, but that’s the way it is , IMO,   We have done a good work here Sis , even if it turns into our own edification , we still tried to share what was givens us.

    Peace and love to you and yours Jodi……….gene

    #943037
    Berean
    Participant

    Gène 

    You have tried to make us believe what is not the truth about WHO JESUS CHRIST REALLY IS.
    IT’S NOT TOO LATE TO REACH YOURSELF AND TRY TO SEE WHAT IS NOT WORKING.

    #943038
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @ Gene,

    I haven’t stopped posting; I am simply buried in the happenings of life, so certain things become less of a priority. I will admit, to a point, the futility of posting my thoughts and responding to others; but I haven’t dusted my feet off yet.

    I come from a perspective that most do not. I believed in the trinity, I believed in the preexistence of Christ, I believed Christ was on par/equal/is God, and many other doctrines held within the church and could explain them just as everyone else does; but why did I believe all this? The answer is simple; it was what I was told was the “truth”. Then literally overnight something didn’t make sense; and this is when I started looking into these “truths” for myself and the discoveries have been amazing!

    What I have realized over the last year speaking with others is doctrine and the strong belief in that doctrine is more important than discovering truth. To try explaining anything that doesn’t align with the held belief becomes impossible because to them anything outside the belief is a lie; and what happens next is predictable – I’m right and your wrong. As the saying goes, tell a lie long enough and it will become truth. Satan is the master deceiver and has been polluting man’s thoughts since creation.

    #943039
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Jodi,

    You: First thing to recognize

    is Jesus suffered and then entered into his glory when he rose from the dead

    NOT QUITE PRECISE Jodi, I’m afraid!

    When we read scripture we become aware that Jesus, THE SON OF MAN from the time He came into this world experienced not just one GLORY when He rose from the dead, SPIRITUALLY DEAD, FOR OUR SAKE IN ORDER TO MAKE US ALL BORN AGAIN AUTHENTIC IN HIS RESURRECTED DEAD BODY 1 Peter 1:3-4.

    First and foremost

    WHETHER YOU ACCEPT IT OR NOT IT’S YOUR PIGEON,   Jesus PRE-EXISTED, and for the first-ever time was in His UNIQUE glory with the Father, THE PHYSICAL EMBODIMENT OF GOD. THE SON OF MAN BEFORE CREATION STARTED.  well asserted in

    John17:5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, WITH THYSELF,

     WITH THE GLORY WHICH I HAD, before the world was, WITH THEE.

    Thus, in the above, Jesus asked the Father that as He was in one glory in the heavens

    before creation started,

    Now it was the time for God the Father to glorify JESUS IN THE SAME GLORY,

    ALSO, ON EARTH, SUPPOSED SATAN’S PROPERTY, 

    BEFORE THE NEW CREATION STARTED.

    How on earth Jodi, you simply ignore such clear scripture related to His pre-existence  I don’t know! 

    JESUS IN THE ABOVE REFERRED TO HIS ETERNAL FULL GLORY ONE WITH THE FATHER, PRECISELY AS HE WAS ORIGINALLY BEFORE CREATION EVER STARTED, AS THE UNIQUE PHYSICAL EMBODIMENT OF GOD!

    Colossians 2:9For in him DWELLETH all the fulness of the Godhead corporeally; 

    BEFORE CREATION STARTED!

    This is well depicted also in 

    Mark 9:1And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter and James and John, and leadeth them up into a high mountain apart by themselves,

    and was TRANSFIGURED before them.

    3And his garments became shining and exceeding white as snow, so as no fuller upon earth can make white.

    Jodi, didn’t you ever read the above scripture?

    And if you did read it, WHAT CAN YOU MAKE OUT OF IT?

    THE ABOVE Jodi is BOTH JESUS’ CONFIRMATION OF HIS PRE-EXISTENCE IN FULL GLORY WITH THE FATHER BEFORE CREATION STARTED IN THE HEAVENS Genesis 1:1 AND ALSO IN THE SAME GLORY BEFORE THE NEW CREATION STARTED ON EARTH ON THE CROSS.   

    John17:1 THESE things Jesus spoke, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: Father,

    the hour is come,

    glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee. 

    AS WHEN I AM WEAK I AM POWERFUL 2Corinthians 12:10

    You: and was a flesh and bones immortal human being.

    Yes, PRECISELY, Jesus was also a flesh and bones immortal human being;

    The Son of Man!

    BEFORE CREATION STARTED,  Read please

    Isaiah:48:16 Come ye near unto me, and hear this:

    I have not spoken in secret from THE BEGINNING:

    from the time BEFORE IT WAS DONE,

    I was there,

    and now the Lord God hath sent ME, and his SPIRIT.

    Isaiah49:1Listen to me, you islands; hear this, you distant nations:

    Before I was born the Lord called me;

    from my mother’s womb he has spoken my name.

    2 He made my mouth like a sharpened sword,

    in the shadow of his hand he hid me;

    he made me into a polished arrow

    and concealed me in his quiver.

    ALSO IN

    John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven,

    but he that descended from heaven,

    the Son of man who is in heaven.

    YES A MAN IN FLESH AND BONES IMMORTAL HUMAN BEING, IN GOD’S OWN TERMS THOUGH, THROUGHOUT SPIRIT BOTH THE SON OF GOD and THE SON OF MAN.

    IN THE FIRST-EVER BEGINNING John1:1

    As flesh counts for nothing when it comes to God’s general work especially AD INTRA, WITHIN THE DEITY, it is His spirit which gives life/existence to all His work even AD EXTRA  OUTSIDE THE DEITY, WITHIN CREATION.

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

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