John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 20,341 through 20,360 (of 26,009 total)
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  • #863442
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    Thanks for prompting me to a particular bible study today.

    Before I get back to John 17 in my next post I want to give my understanding that one has to be born of water and of the Spirit to enter into God’s kingdom with eternal life.

    God’s purpose is to be ALL IN all.

    It is by God’s Spirit in full measure that a man is kept from all sin, and if a man through God’s Spirit is being caused by that Spirit to walk in all His ways, then there is no penalty of death, there is only life eternal.

    The Spirit and Eternal life thus go hand in hand, if you don’t have the fullness of God’s Spirit, Him being all in, then you don’t have eternal life. God has forgiven our sins through Christ so that we may have access to that full measure of the Spirit.

    When I read the word of the promise of eternal life, to me that equates to a promise of having the fullness of God’s Spirit dwelling within my spirit, God all in.

    #863445
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    I have a post prepared for you with scriptures, but I really think I just want to ask you a question first now that I think about it.

    Would you say that the below statements are true,

    You can have an inheritance but not actually have yet that which you are to inherit from the inheritance.

    Sometimes to receive that which you are to inherit from the inheritance that has been given to you, you must fulfill certain criteria first.

    When you believe you are at the near point of reaching that criteria you may find yourself giving acknowledgement to the person who gave you the inheritance and telling them that it’s near time that you receive it.

     

     

    #863452
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU: This is clearly not the glory he was asking God to return him to in his prayer, and we know this from verse 24…

    Father, I want those you have given me to be with me

    where I am,

    and to see my glory,

    the glory you have given me (PRESENT PERFECT TENSE, AN ACTION INITIATED IN THE PAST,  PRE-EXISTENCE OF JESUS) 

    (WELL CLEAR HEREUNDER:)

    because you loved me before the creation of the world.

     

    MIKE,  TELL JODI, WHERE JESUS WAS IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME JESUS 

    DECLARED HE IS?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #863455
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Lu,

    YOU:

    Jodi said: Mike, I can rightfully ask God for the glory that I had of God before the world was, just as Jesus did.
    Jodi would not have the opportunity to ask God for glory of any kind before the world was because she wouldn’t have even existed with or without glory apart from the Son’s existence. If not for the Son none of us would be here longing for glory of any kind.

    ME:

    2 Timothy 1: 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also GLORFIED. 

    1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be THE GOD and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to HIS abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    LU, God GAVE an inheritance to whom He foreknew, an inheritance in Christ BEFORE the WORLD BEGAN, justification and GLORY with eternal life, was given. 

    I did not have to exist in order for our All Knowing God and Father to give me an inheritance, as said, He foreknew and predestined people.  I can have an inheritance be given to me before I am even born, and have it be reserved for me to receive. 

    Have you ever heard the expression “well I have it, it’s just not with me at the moment” or “I have it, it’s just not on me at the moment”?

    When your mom sends you a present in the mail that present IS yours, you don’t have it yet, but it is yours all the same, it has been given to you.

    I have hope, I anxiously await having FAITH that I am going to receive my inheritance. God wanted to make sure that we know that such an inheritance was given to us by His foreknowledge, even before the world began. 

    So knowing and believing in the direct truth given in scripture, I can most certainly ask God to give me the glory which I had from Him before the world began. 

     

    #863458
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Jodi,

    To have the hope that you will receive an inheritance, you have to believe in the Son of God which you clearly do not.

    1 John 5 10Whoever believes in the Son of God has this testimony within him; whoever does not believe God has made Him out to be a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given about His Son. 11And this is that testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.…

    #863460
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Irenaeus says, regarding the Word of God:

    And again Moses tells how the Son of God drew near to hold converse with Abraham: And God appeared unto him by the oak of Mamre in the middle of the day. And looking up with his eyes he beheld, and, lo, three men stood over against him. And he bowed himself down to the earth, and said: Lord, if indeed I have found favour in thy sight. And all that which follows he spake with the Lord, and the Lord spake with him. Now two of the three were angels; but one was the Son of God, with whom also Abraham spake, pleading on behalf of the men of Sodom, that they should not perish if at least ten righteous should be found there. And, whilst these were speaking, the two angels entered into Sodom, and Lot received them. And then the Scripture says: And the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven: that is to say, the Son, who spake with Abraham, being Lord, received power to punish the men of Sodom from the Lord out of heaven, even from the Father who rules over all.115 So Abraham was a prophet and saw things to come, which were to take place in human form even the Son of God, that He should speak with men and eat with them, and then should bring in the judgment from the Father, having received from Him who rules over all the power to punish the men of Sodom. And Jacob, when he went into Mesopotamia, saw Him in a dream, standing upon the ladder, that is the tree which was set up from earth to heaven;116 for thereby they that believe on Him go up to the heavens. For His sufferings are our ascension on high. And all such visions point to the Son of God, speaking with men and being in their midst. For it was not the Father of all, who is not seen by the world, the Maker of all who has said: Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me, or what is the place of my rest? and who comprehendeth the earth with his hand, and with his span the heaven117—it was not He that came and stood in a very small space and spake with Abraham; but the Word of God, who was ever with mankind, and made known beforehand what should come to pass in the future, and taught men the things of God. He it is who spake with Moses in the bush, and said: Seeing have I seen the affliction of my people that is in Egypt; and I am come down to deliver them. He it is who came forth and came down for the deliverance of the oppressed, bringing us out from the power of the Egyptians, that is, from all idolatry and impiety; and delivering us from the Red Sea, that is, delivering us from the deadly confusion of the Gentiles and the grievous vexation of their blasphemy. For in them the Word of God prepared and rehearsed beforehand the things concerning us. Then He set forth in types beforehand that which was to be; how in very truth He has brought us out from the cruel service of the Gentiles, and a stream of water in the desert has He made to flow forth in abundance from a rock; and that rock is Himself; and has given twelve fountains, that is, the teaching of the twelve apostles. And the obstinate unbelievers He brought to an end and consumed in the wilderness; but those who believed on Him, and in malice were children,118 He made to enter into the inheritance of the fathers; whom not Moses, but Jesus puts in possession of the heritage:119 who also delivers us from Amalek by the expansion of His hands,120 and brings us to the kingdom of the Father. So then the Father is Lord and the Son is Lord,121 and the Father is God and the Son is God; for that which is begotten of God is God.122 And so in the substance and power of His being there is shown forth one God; but there is also according to the economy of our redemption both Son and Father. Because to created things the Father of all is invisible and unapproachable,123 therefore those who are to draw near to God must have their access to the Father through the Son. And yet more plainly and evidently does David speak concerning the Father and the Son as follows: Thy throne, O God is for ever and ever: thou hast loved righteousness and hated unrighteousness:124 therefore God hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

    From here: The Demonstration of the Apostolic Preaching: An Early Christian Writing; page 32 Kindle version.

    https://www.amazon.com/s?k=The+Demonstration+of+the+Apostolic+Preaching%3A+An+Early+Christian+Writing&ref=nb_sb_noss

    #863461
    carmel
    Participant

    HI Mike,

    YOU: No he’s not.  But if he was, then your doctrine is in trouble.

    How can a single word someone spoke be greater than the one who spoke that word?

    ME: Again Mike, YOUR HUMAN REASONING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD’S REASONING.

    YOU, GENE, and JODI PUT GOD INTO

    THE SAME BASKET OF HUMANS, HIS MERE CREATURES.

    Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

    9For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.

    whether you believe it or not it’s not my problem. But

    ALLOW ME MIKE PLEASE IN FULL HUMILITY TO REVEAL  A SPECK OF GOD’S MYSTERIES.

    REVEALED IN THE PAST, AND STILL BEING REVEALED EVEN NOW AS GOD PLEASES BY THE PARACLETE!

    John 14: 16 And I will ask the Father: and he shall give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you for ever: 17The spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, nor knoweth him. But you shall know him; because he shall abide with you and shall be in you.

    John16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself: but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak. And the things that are to come, he shall shew you. 14He shall glorify me: because he shall receive of mine and shall shew it to you. 15All things whatsoever the Father hath are mine. Therefore I said that he shall receive of me and shew it to you.

    HUMAN WORD/S HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GOD’S WORD/S.

    GOD’S ENTIRE WORDS, SPOKEN AND STILL TO BE SPOKEN ARE

    SPIRITS.

    John 6:63The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and

    LIFE

    infinitesimal spirits, which no microscope could be invented in order to be

    DETECTED.

    EQUIVALENT SPIRITS REGARDING HIS DIVINE WORDS, : AD INTRA 

    SEPARATED FROM CREATED SPIRITS: AD EXTRA  but at the same time ONE SUBSTANCE! ATTENTION MIKE: SIMPLY AS

    IN WHOSE SPIRITS THERE IS, THEIR LIFE! John6:63 above.

    “THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of  Man, THE BEGINNING! 

    THE ONLY SPIRIT/MEDIATOR between God’s ELEMENT and His creatures’ element.

    NOW IN “THE WORD” AS AN INFINITESIMAL SPIRIT, MIKE, there is 

    GOD THE FATHER, THE SOURCE! PROTECTED! SHIELDED! BY “THE WORD” Jesus.

    NOW, ONLY WITHIN THIS SUPER SPIRIT “THE WORD” GOD THE FATHER FUNCTIONS!

    HE CANNOT FUNCTION ON HIS OWN! NOT POSSIBLE OR ELSE HE COULD BE CONTAMINATED!

    https://www.lexico.com/

    AD INTRA

    ADVERB
    With reference to an action or characteristic of God which is not communicable to the world beyond the Persons of the Trinity. Also more generally: with effect or result only in one’s own mind, self, etc. (rather than in the outside world); within, internally. Opposed to ad extra .
    ADJECTIVE
    Designating an action or characteristic of God that is not communicable beyond the Persons of the Trinity. Also more generally: designating an action that does not have an effect or result in the outside world; imperceptible, internal, interior. Opposed to ad extra .
    Origin
    Early 17th century; earliest use found in John Boys (d. 1625), dean of Canterbury. From post-classical Latin ad intra towards the inside from classical Latin ad to, towards + intrā.

    AD EXTRA

    ADVERB
    With effect or result in the outside world (as opposed to one’s own mind, self, etc.); in the world at large; externally, perceivably; especially with reference to an action or characteristic of God which is communicable to the world beyond the Persons of the Trinity. Opposed to ad intra .
    ADJECTIVE
    Designating an action that has an effect or result in the outside world; exteriorized, perceivable, external; designating or relating to an action or characteristic of God which is communicable beyond the Persons of the Trinity. Opposed to ad intra .
    Origin
    Early 17th century; earliest use found in Thomas Morton (d. ?1647), colonist in America. From post-classical Latin ad extra towards the outside from classical Latin ad to, towards + extrā.

     Cheers.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #863466
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Jodi and Gene,

    There is not a single man (100 percent human)
    who has not sinned and is not deprived of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) and who does not fundamentally need the Lord Jesus to hope one day to inherit eternal life.
    This is why a hundred percent human Jesus makes him a person who needs a savior.
    The Bible is formal, salvation came from above through the only begotten Son of God who was made flesh and who dwelt among us full of grace and truth.

    WHO, BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD, THOUGHT IT NOT ROBBERY TO BE EQUAL WITH GOD:
    [7] BUT MADE HIMSELF OF NO REPUTATION, AND TOOK UPON HIM THE FORM OF A SERVANT, AND WAS MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN:
    [8] AND BEING FOUND IN FASHION AS A MAN, HE HUMBLED HIMSELF, AND BECAME OBEDIENT UNTO DEATH, EVEN THE DEATH OF THE CROSS.
    Jesus was in the form of God…. and  He took upon him the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men

    FORM OF GOD ……………….FORM OF MAN’S SERVANT

    This is not a Babylonian mystery religion teaching but a part of the pure and simple truth of the eternal Gospel.

    #863472
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean…..Your wrong JESUS IS 100% human and was without sin. SEE that your problem you do n I t see a 100% human being living without sin. You see a GOD LIVING “DESGUISED” AS A HUMAN.  In that sense you are denying Jesus was,   and still is a “flesh” human.  what did  John say, “about people who do that? ‘” whosoever that deny’s Christ (the anointed one) as comming in the “flesh” IS a  ANTICHRIST .  let’s slow that statement down a little,  now why would JOHN say that the person who denies Jesus (the anointed one) is ANTI-CHRISTO’S  ( meaning against his Anointing)?   Think about that a minuite please,  a human being has to become anointed inorder to do the will of GOD,  BECAUSE IT TAKES THE “SPIRIT” OF GOD TO GUIDE HIM.  IT “MUST” THEREFORE BE “IN” HIM TO DO GOD’S WILL. 

    So understanding that then if we say AS YOU PEOPLE DO M that Jesus is GOD, THEN PLEASE TELL US WHY DID HE HAVE TO BE ANOINTED BY God inorder to do the will of GOD..  SO IF I SAY JESUS WAS ALREADY A God before he came to this earth and was God on this earth , I am denying the “nissesity of him having to be “Anointed” by God the Father, reason being,  he was already GOD , AND A GOD IN THE FLESH DOES NOT HAVE TO BE ANOINTED BY ANYONE.  

    The word Anitchrist is not against the man Jesus himself, it’s the anointing of the man. So when you deny him being 100% flesh, by saying he was a God, that makes you a Antichrist.  Did you follow that Berean?  If not I will try to explain it clearer for you.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

    #863473
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Mike,

    YOU: You are very confused, Carmel…

    Not “God the son”, but “the son OF God”.  Big difference.

    ME: Mike the SON OF GOD IS 

    GODMAN on earth!

    GOD THE SON

    1John 5:20 And we know that

    the Son of God is come.

    And he hath given us understanding that we may know

    the true God and

    may be in his

    true Son.

    This is the true God and life eternal.

     

    YOU: Galatians 4:7 isn’t about Jesus.

    Galatians4:1As long as the heir is a child, (LIKE JESUS WAS) he differeth nothing from a servant,( LIKE JESUS WAS)  though he be lord of all, ( LIKE JESUS WAS/IS)

    2But is under tutors and governors ( LIKE JESUS WAS as a spirit slain like a lamb from the beginning of the world Rev.13:8) until the time appointed by the father. (WHEN THE FATHER SENT JESUS INTO THE WORLD  AS MAN)

     

    3So we also,(LIKE JESUS)

    when we were children, were serving under the elements of the world. (CARRIERS OF SATAN AND HIS DEMONS

      Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness and hath translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love, )

     

    4But when the fulness of the time was come,

    God sent his Son, MADE of a woman, MADE under the law:

    (NEITHER SUBJECT TO THE WOMAN, NOR TO THE LAW, as the woman was created by HIM, AS A SPIRIT IN HER HEART

    and the law was made by HIM AS A SPIRIT, THE FINGER OF GOD THE SERVANT, Luke 11:20)

     

    5That he( JESUS)  might redeem them who were under the law: that we might receive

    the adoption of sons. (SINCE JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD/GOD THE SON)

    6And because you are sons, ( IN THE SAME WAY JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD/GOD THE SON)

    God hath sent

    the Spirit of his Son (JESUS “THE WORD” James 1:21) into your hearts,

    crying: Abba, Father. (JESUS CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD/

    GOD THE SON, BOTH the Holy Ghost and “THE WORD” UNITED as ONE John4:36-37)

    Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which

    THE HOLY GHOST hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased

    WITH HIS OWN BLOOD.

    (JESUS CHRIST, ONE SPIRIT, ONE GOD, ONE FATHER:

    of humanity purchased created ANEW, by His own blood,)

    Ephesians 4:1I therefore, a prisoner in the Lord, beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation in which you are called: 2With all humility and mildness, with patience, supporting one another in charity. 3Careful to keep the unity of the Spirit( CHRIST’S) in the bond of peace. 4One body and one Spirit: (CHRIST’S)as you are called in one hope of your calling. 5One Lord,(CHRIST’S) one faith, one baptism.

    6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.

    (JESUS CHRIST Isaiah 9:6)

    7But to every one of us is given grace, according to the measure of the giving of

    Christ.

    Galatians 4:7 Therefore, now he (LIKE CHRIST IS)is not a servant, but a son. ( like Jesus) And if a son, an heir also through God. ( IN JESUS CHRIST THE TRUE GOD ON EARTH)

    NOT IN GOD THE FATHER AS THE FATHER NEVER DIED!

    YOU: Paul is talking about believers undertaking a new and

    better relationship (WRONG MIKE WE NEVER HAD ANY RELATIONSHIP)  with God. (WE WERE SATANICLY RELATED)

    YOU:   It was about us( DEVILS IN FLESH) being “promoted” ( NO, RECREATED Hebrews1:10-12, ON THE CROSS AND PURCHASED acts 20:28) from simple slaves (WE WERE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, BUT  DEAD CREATURES)  to actual spiritual sons (NEVER SEEN IT IN SCRIPTURES,  CHILDREN)  of God. (IN ONE SAME FATHER, IN ONE SAME BLOOD IN CHRIST, Jeremiah  32:39 -41)

    YOU:Jesus was (IS) a spiritual(THE) son of God (HIS ESSENCE, GOD CAN MULTIPLY HIMSELF AS MUCH AS HE WANTS! WITHOUT DIMINISHING HIMSELF. JESUS IS THE ACTUAL SPIRIT OF GOD, of the Holy Ghost, Genesis 1:2, John 6:49)

    YOU: from the moment God created him (LIES MIKE, “THE WORD” Jesus, IS ETERNALLY IN GOD THE FATHER and Vice Versa)

    YOU: as the first of His works.( PRE-EXISTED BEFORE THE BEGINNING ETERNALLY WITH THE FATHER Colossians 1:15-20)

    YOU: Jesus didn’t need to get promoted to “spiritual son of God” ( WHERE IN SCRIPTURE EXISTS THIS TERM MIKE  it is your INVENTION, YOUR FABLES, JESUS IS ETERNALLY A SPIRIT, EVEN WHEN HE WAS MADE FLESH. He was made flesh because HE EMPTIED HIMSELF OF HIS SPIRIT, BECAME POOR, and ENRICHED US with his spirit, OUR ETERNAL LIFE )

    YOU: And even as “spiritual sons of God”,

    we  ( WHO ARE WE MIKE? WE WERE DEVILS IN FLESH, NOT EVEN A PEOPLE 1Peter 2:10)

    John15:4 Abide in me: and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine,

    so neither can you, unless you abide in me. (NOT IN THE FATHER, WE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FATHER UNLESS IN JESUS CHRIST, OUR FATHER, John20:17, John17:23)

    5I am the vine: you the branches. He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit:

    for without me you can do nothing. (absolutely nothing, bye, bye Father.)

    6If anyone abides not in me,

    he shall be cast forth as a branch and shall wither: and they shall gather him up and

    cast him into the fire: and he burneth. 

    1John1:3 That which we have seen and have heard, we declare unto you: that you also may have fellowship with us and

    our fellowship may be with the

    Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 

    YOU: we and Jesus will always still be servants of our God. ( YOUR CARNAL MENTALITY MIKE. WE HAVE A SPECK OF JESUS IN US IN ORDER FOR THE FATHER TO ACCEPT US AS HIS CHILDREN, JESUS ENRICHED US WITH HIS SPIRIT,  )

    YOU: Case in point: the prayer in Acts 4 was AFTER Jesus was raised to the right hand of his and our God,(THE FATHER IS NOT OUR GOD EXCEPT IN JESUS CHRIST JOHN17:23, John 20:17)  and AFTER he had been given a

    ton of power and authority

    ME:(YOUR HEAD IS BURIED IN THE SAND MIKE)

    Matthew 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying:

    All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.

    YOU: BY his and our God. (IN JESUS CHRIST) Yet they still called him God’s holy servant, right?

    WHERE MIKE? WHICH SCRIPTURE?

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #863474
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    I started a new thread to discuss Philippians 2, I hope you will post on it there.

    YOU:This is why a hundred percent human Jesus makes him a person who needs a savior.
    The Bible is formal, salvation came from above through the only begotten Son of God who was made flesh and who dwelt among us full of grace and truth.

    ME: Jesus DIED Berean and he needed God to SAVE him from his death. He was resurrected by his God and our God. 

    OUR ONE GOD THE FATHER is our savior through the Anointed Son of Man Jesus. 

    Put some simple scriptures together.

    First of all, Isaiah 61 IS God’s word made true in the flesh of Jesus. The Spirit rested upon Jesus, AN ANOINTING and he was SENT out TO specifically set us at liberty. He was given the Spirit so that he could set us at liberty.

    God called Jesus to righteousness, He held his hand and kept him for to be a light, to fulfill God’s covenant, which that covenant was God’s promise of salvation and eternal life, of which He promised before the world began.

    Jesus the ANOINTED IS the Son of God, and at the moment he was anointed with the Spirit God declared this Anointed Jesus to be His Son, THEN we see that is WHEN THIS SON IS SENT, and he is sent to set us at liberty. 

    YOU:the only begotten Son of God who was made flesh and who dwelt among us full of grace and truth.

    ME: That is not scripture Berean. It is Jesus the Anointed who was called the only begotten Son of God and the Anointed one came to us in the flesh. He received the Spirit not by measure, the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of the LORD. JESUS who was ANOINTED was FILLED with grace and truth as he was said to leave the river Jordan having been FILLED with the Spirit. 

    #863475
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    You have it wrong, it doesn’t add up at all what you say.

    Can you agree that Isaiah 61 is God’s word made true in the flesh?

    Can you agree that Jesus said that he could do nothing of himself?

    Can you agree that it is by the Spirit upon him that he is sent out to set us at liberty?

    Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

    The Anointed Jesus is sent to set us at liberty Berean, and he came to us FROM GOD/DOWN FROM HEAVEN. It just so happens that this Anointed Jesus at his anointing at the river Jordan God declares him to be His Son, and it just so happens that it is this Anointed Jesus who is said to BE God’s Son, and it just so happens that this is WHEN we see Jesus being SENT.

    #863476
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Jodi…..you have it right.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

    #863480
    Ed J
    Participant

    Berean…..Your wrong JESUS IS 100% human and was without sin.

    Hi Gene,

    (Matthew 1:18 / Matthew 1:20 / Luke 1:35) (Luke 10:30-37)

    Jesus lineage explained

    “Son of Man”: 25%; Mary’s mother’s lineage was of the tribe of Levi. (Luke 1:5, 1:36)
    “Son of Man”: 25%: Mary’s father’s lineage was (Judah) through Nathan(son of David). (Luke 3:23-31)
    “Son of God”: 50%: Jesus’ Father was the “HolySpirit”; NOT Joseph! (Mathew 1:18 / Mathew 1:20 / Luke 1:35)

    At birth: Jesus was 50% HolySpirit(God)(Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35), 25% Levite(Priest) and 25% Judah(King)!
    At baptism by John the baptizer, Jesus was filled with the HolySpirit(God) beyond measure! (John 3:34 / John 1:14)

    Here is why Jesus is called both the “Son of Man” and the “Son of God”…

    ……………….Mother……….Father
    ………………..Mary………HolySpirit
    …………………50%…………50%
    ……………………\……………/
    ……………………..\………../
    ………………………..Jesus
    ………………………./…….\
    ……………………./…………\
    …………………../…………….\
    ……….Son of Man…….Son of God
    ………..(Mark 6:3)……..(Luke 1:35)

    Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
    יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

    #863481
    Ed J
    Participant

    Hi Jodi and Gene,

    There is not a single man (100 percent human)
    who has not sinned and is not deprived of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) and who does not fundamentally need the Lord Jesus to hope one day to inherit eternal life.

    Hi Berean,

    Gene is blinded to this.

    But what do you expect, Gene doesn’t have a “Free Will”

    Just ask him

    #863482
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Berean,  what do you do with the geology of Jesus given in Luke 3:23-38,  have you thrown it out of your bible?  It not only shows Jesus through the linkage of King David, but also calls Adam the “son of God”.  No scripture say what you have posted, that just another “trinitarian” teaching that has not true scripture SUPPORT.  That the problem Berean, we are supposed to us our scriptures to SUPPORT our belifes, not some churches SUPOSITIONS derived by the triditions of men.  

    Jesus said clearly he was the  root and off spring, of King David. he did not say he was “half” the offspring of King David now did he?, you seen to think being called a Son of God somehow makes you not a 100% human being. That is completely a false concept,  Adam was not half human and half God, when he was called the “son of God”,  we are not half human and haf God  either , where scriptures says, “now we are the sons of God”. 

    I notice you are getting more and more away from scripture support for your teachings, and going more and more toward what trinitarian concept are, without textual support. Please use scriptures as we do,   to support your teachings.  We have posted to you very clear textual support for what we are saying.

    Again we say Jesus was 100 % a flesh man who came into his “only” ever existence as a human being, who received the Holy Spirit after his baptizim,  and from there this  100% human being became a son of God, just like we do by recieving the Holy spirit into us also. When Jesus returns he still will be a “son of man” and a son of God, just like we,  who have the Spirit of God also are. 

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

     

     

     

    #863483
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Edj…..Wrong again, JESUS IS A 100% HUMAN BEING AND NEVER SINNED.  He is what God the Father has in mind for us all , Jesus is the completed work of God for all humanity, he is what God had in mind at the very creation of man kind.

    As far as “free will” goes you believe you save yourself by your so-called free will choices, I believe it is GOD’S WILL THAT SAVES US, we will see who is right in the end.  Free will is a “OXYMORON ”  NONE EXISTS, all will are driven by influencing going on in the mind, including  yours nothing “free” about it.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene

    #863490
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Seriously Gene,

    You asked Berean: Berean, what do you do with the geology of Jesus given in Luke 3:23-38, have you thrown it out of your bible?

    First of all, you mean genealogy, not geology. Second of all, Christians all over the world acknowledge the genealogy of Jesus as the son of created man which is different than how he is the only begotten son of God as the Firstborn over all creation, born before anything was made in heaven and on earth. Do you not understand the teaching of the incarnation of the Son, Gene?? He who eternally existed with his Father, was not a man. He was the same in nature as the Father, no difference in nature. In order for the Son to redeem sinful mankind, he who was not a man and did not have flesh, took on flesh and entered our world as a baby human through the womb of a virgin. That is the incarnation. He wasn’t to be born of a random person but a virgin and he was to be a descendant from the tribe of Judah, a son of David. The genealogy is very important to show that his ancestry, according to his humanity, was from the tribe of Judah and King David. Both genealogies confirm that.

    #863505
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Edj,

    YOU: Jesus lineage explained

    ME: Jesus came in all things like His brethren but not SIN.

    His brethren are 100% HUMANS. NO?

    Now reflect:

    Adam was CREATED in the image and likeness of God. 100%MALE and 100% FEMALE, A LIVING SOUL in God’s terms!

    Now, Adam and his wife, INDIVIDUALLY  LIVING SOULS:

    1oo%MALE and 100%FEMALE in God’s terms, NO SEX YET, as God is androgynous, ON THEIR SIN, lost their

    1oo%MALE and 100%FEMALE in God’s terms; DIED and BECAME ONLY

    100%MAN, ADAM, and 100%WOMAN,  HIS WIFE  in Satan’s terms, WHICH MEANS

    TOTALLY SPIRITUALLY DEAD! They lost their GOD’S TERMS

    AS LIVING SOULS, 100% SOULS, and 100% FLESH INDIVIDUALLY, CHILDREN OF GOD, PLUS THEIR REPRODUCTIVE PROCESS IN HARMONY WITH GOD. WHICH MEANS  THEY LOST AS WELL

    THE SPIRIT OF GOD, AS BEFORE SIN THEY WERE

    SPIRIT, SOUL, and FLESH:  THE TRIUNE IMAGE OF GOD INDIVIDUALLY ALL

    ALIVE! Consequently ON THEIR SIN

    THEY LIVED ONLY IN SATAN’S TERMS, which means

     THEY CORRUPTED THEIR HOLY 100% IMMORTAL FLESH and

    THEY DESTROYED THEIR 100% SOULS DROWNED IN THE SUBSTANCE OF

    FLESH AND BLOOD, PLUS THEY LOST THE MOST VITAL

    THE SPIRIT OF GOD, and INHERITED ONLY 

    100% MORTAL FLESH, WITHOUT LIFE. TOTALLY DEAD, CURSED, and SATANIC. SIMPLY AS SATAN REIGNED

    totally spirit, soul and flesh IN THEM!

    Genesis 3:15 I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: …..

    God is Just and Jesus said WHO IS NOT WITH ME IS AGAINST ME! Consequently, SINCE THEY REJECTED GOD’S WILL,

    God established Adam and his wife according to the process and will which PLEASED His enemy, UNFORTUNATELY, once Adam and his wife became God’s enemies! Hence: A CORRUPTED PROCESS IN 

    MAN, WOMAN, SEX, SIN, and DEATH,

    ALL ASSETS ATTRIBUTED TO SATAN

    THE FIVE WILLS OF LUCIFER IN Isaiah 14:12-14 

    ADAM and HIS WIFE DESPERATE FOR GOD’S MERCY; HE HIMSELF AS A REDEEMER IN JESUS!

    Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said:

    God will provide

    himself

    a victim for a holocaust,

    my son.

    So they went on together.

     THE FATHER and THE SON, ON THE CROSS!

    THUS  WE COME TO THE REDEEMER

    “THE WORD” made FLESH JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, 

    SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD IN 

    THE HEART OF ADAM, HIS WIFE, and SATAN! ALL OF STONE!

    LIGHT SHINES IN DARKNESS and darkness comprehended NOT;

    GOD HIDDEN IN THE HEART OF HIS SERVANT “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE,

    IN FULL CONTROL! 

    Isaiah 45: 15Verily thou art a hidden God, the God of Israel the saviour.

    16They are all confounded and ashamed: the forgers of errors are gone together into confusion.

    17Israel (LUCIFER’S SPIRIT IN THE HUMAN RACE THE LOST SHEEP)  is saved in the Lord with an eternal salvation:

    you (LUCIFER)shall not be confounded, and you shall not be ashamed forever and ever.

     

    JESUS WAS BORN IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN:

    ADAM and HIS WIFE BEFORE SIN, MALE, and FEMALE IN GOD’S TERMS, SOUL, and FLESH. 

    HUMANS WERE ONLY 100% FLESH; SPIRITUALLY DEAD.

     ATTENTION Edj, and ALL! ESPECIALLY,

    JODI, and GENE,

    JESUS WAS BORN:

    100% SOUL in the Holy Ghost,  THE DIVINE NATURE OF JESUS, ATTRIBUTED TO THE SON OF GOD  (THE MALE/WATER)

    100% FLESH in “THE WORD”  THE HUMAN NATURE OF JESUS.ATTRIBUTED TO THE SON OF MAN (THE FEMALE/FLESH)

    100% SPIRIT OF THE FATHER, (ON HIS CONCEPTION! ATTRIBUTED TO GOD!)

    1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world,

    but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 

    6This is he that came by WATER and BLOOD, ( MALE AND FEMALE, SOUL and FLESH) Jesus Christ: not by water only but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth that Christ is the truth.

    7And there are Three who give testimony in heaven,

    the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost.

    And these three are one.

    ( OUR LORD GOD AND FATHER JESUS CHRIST, ISAIAH9:6)

     

    Peace and Love in Jesus Christ

     

     

     

     

    #863506
    Lightenup
    Participant

     

    Does this sound like anyone here?

    Saint Ignatius of Antioch: The Epistles, page 141

    If any one says there is one God, and also confesses Christ Jesus, but thinks the Lord to be a mere man, and not the only-begotten [931] God, and Wisdom, and the Word of God, and deems Him to consist merely of a soul and body, such an one is a serpent, that preaches deceit and error for the destruction of men.

     

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