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Quote (Marlin1 @ Jan. 09 2013,14:35) Quote according to the LAW what are the works of men 
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PierreBrother,
To live by LAW is DEATH !!!!!Do you live by LAW?
bro. Marlin
Marlin1.I can not wait to agree with you in this.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 09 2013,23:23) Quote (Marlin1 @ Jan. 09 2013,14:35) Quote according to the LAW what are the works of men ————–
PierreBrother,
To live by LAW is DEATH !!!!!Do you live by LAW?
bro. Marlin
Marlin1.I can not wait to agree with you in this.
wakeup.
like usually you do not read the conversation just butt in and then take the wrong conclusions ,why bother even discussing anything ,you have already made up your mind any way
all
many believe that Israel of 1948 his the Israel that is talked in scriptures,
ISA 52:6 “Therefore My people shall know My name; therefore in that day I am the one who is speaking, ‘Here I am.’ISA 58:1 “ Cry loudly, do not hold back;
Raise your voice like a trumpet,
And declare to My people their transgression
And to the house of Jacob their sins
Ac 2:5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven.Ponce Pilate ,ask Jesus “what his the truth
“”so can any of you tell what his the truth
we know the word of God his the truth but I do not think that is what Christ ad in mind,what you think
m1 and Gene and wakeup
all three believe that just LOVE is enough and that it is not necessary to understand what it mean AGAPE (love of and for God )
they all agree but do not know or understand what they agree on ,I do not think they care much for truth of God and understanding to know God ,their are other in the millions like them
Terricca…….. Your words are false as usual Pierre, Please show us a scripture anywhere that says “a person must understand the word AGAPE” , Love is what those who have “IT” have “IN” them, Love is Love no matter who it is direct toward, Scripture says Love fulfills the Law and again it say this Love for God and Love for man is what hinges “ALL” the Laws and the Prophets and again “But as touching brotherly love you need not that i write unto you: for you yourselves are “TAUGHT” of GOD to love one another”.
Pierre you need to post what people say instead of “LYING” about them as a false accuser like the one you seem to be following most of the time here.
peace and Love to you and yours…………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 06 2013,21:09) Terricca…….. Your words are false as usual Pierre, Please show us a scripture anywhere that says “a person must understand the word AGAPE” , Love is what those who have “IT” have “IN” them, Love is Love no matter who it is direct toward, Scripture says Love fulfills the Law and again it say this Love for God and Love for man is what hinges “ALL” the Laws and the Prophets and again “But as touching brotherly love you need not that i write unto you: for you yourselves are “TAUGHT” of GOD to love one another”. Pierre you need to post what people say instead of “LYING” about them as a false accuser like the one you seem to be following most of the time here.
peace and Love to you and yours…………………….gene
Geneplease show that you understand what the LOVE of GOD his
and then explain to me what the LOVE FOR GOD his
and then tell me how it is to be applied with the scriptures
saying it by reading it does not mean you understand it right
so please teach me ;do not be only a hearer of the words but also a man that practice what he read ,and to practice it you have to understand it right
Terricca………..Have you become a Judge of Me? Why don't you give us your understanding of the questions you ask us?
Are you so ignorant of what LOVE IS that you would ask me to teach you?Here is a good “START” for “YOU” . 1 Th 4:9 , and then when you understand that go to his 1 John 4:7 and them go to here Rom 5:5, and then go here Rom 13:10 and if that is not enough go here Gal 5:22
Now if you still don't understand what Love is come back and i will give you more scurptures of the “UNDERSTANDING” of What LOVE “IS” OK?
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
g
1Jn 4:7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
1Th 4:9 Now about brotherly love we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other.
Ro 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
Ro 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
thank you for those scriptures but like you know very well I know my scriptures ,and so I have posted your so to remind you of them while I show those in relation to those scriptures you quoted me ,so to have kind of good understanding what it is that transpires in those words ;
Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—
Gal 1:7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.1Jn 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
1Jn 5:2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1Jn 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,Ro 1:6 And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ.
Ro 1:7 To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints:
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS TO BE CALLED A SAINT
Ro 13:8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law.
Ro 13:9 The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Ro 13:10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.quoting scriptures does not mean you understand them ,it just confirms that you can read ,right
I am not your judge ,we both have the same judge Jesus Christ and his words
Terricca……….So what exactly is your point? You understand and we Don't or What?
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 16 2013,20:50) Terricca……….So what exactly is your point? You understand and we Don't or What? peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………..gene
GQuote Terricca……….So what exactly is your point? the teachings of scriptures
IF THE TRUTH OF GOD HIS TRUTH AND AS BEEN WRITTEN FOR US TO KNOW HIM ,THEN IT IS ALSO TRUE THAT WE WILL ONLY UNDERSTAND HIS TRUTH IF WE GO TO HIM IN FULL SUBMISSION,AND SO LET HIS WORDS BE FULL PART OF OUR SOUL OUR HEART,AND MIND USING ALL OUR STRENGTH TO DO AS HE SAYS IN SCRIPTURES ,SO THAT GOD CAN THROUGH HIS OWN WORDS GIVE US ENLIGHTENMENT IN OUR HEARTS TO SEE HIS TRUTH AS HE WANT US TO UNDERSTAND IT ,IF NOT SO TELL ME WHAT WOULD YOU COLLECT OF INFO
WOULD IT NOT BE YOUR OWN YES IT WOULD BE ,AND IT WOULD NOT BE THE TRUTH BUT YOURS.IT SEEMS TO ME THAT SOCRATES UNDERSTOOD THE TRUTH ,IN WHICH HE EXPLAIN IT TO HIS FRIEND PLATO,IN THE ALLEGORY OF THE CAVE;
The Allegory of the Cave—also known as the Analogy of the Cave, Plato's Cave, or the Parable of the Cave—is an allegory presented by the Greek philosopher Plato in his work The Republic to illustrate “our nature in its education and want of education” (514a). It is written as a dialogue between Plato's brother Glaucon and Plato's mentor Socrates, narrated by the latter at the beginning of Book VII (514a–520a). The Allegory of the Cave is presented after the metaphor of the sun (508b–509c) and the analogy of the divided line (509d–513e). All three are characterized in relation to dialectic at the end of Book VII and VIII (531d–534e).
Plato has Socrates describe a group of people who have lived chained to the wall of a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows. According to Plato's Socrates, the shadows are as close as the prisoners get to viewing reality. He then explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall do not make up reality at all, as he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows seen by the prisoners.
The Allegory may be related to Plato's Theory of Forms, according to which the “Forms” (or “Ideas”), and not the material world of change known to us through sensation, possess the highest and most fundamental kind of reality. Only knowledge of the Forms constitutes real knowledge.[1] In addition, the Allegory of the Cave is an attempt to explain the philosopher's place in society: to attempt to enlighten the “prisoners.”
Plato's Phaedo contains similar imagery to that of the Allegory of the Cave; a philosopher recognizes that before philosophy, his soul was “a veritable prisoner fast bound within his body… and that instead of investigating reality by itself and in itself it is compelled to peer through the bars of its prison.”[2]
Contents [hide]
1 Synopsis
1.1 Inside the cave
1.2 Release from the cave
1.3 Return to the cave
1.4 Remarks on the allegory
2 References in Culture
3 See also
4 References
5 External links
[edit]Synopsis[edit]Inside the cave
In Plato's fictional dialogue, Socrates begins by describing a scenario in which what people take to be real would in fact be an illusion. He asks Glaucon to imagine a cave inhabited by prisoners who have been chained and held immobile since childhood: not only are their legs (but not arms) held in place, but their necks are also fixed, so they are compelled to gaze at a wall in front of them. Behind the prisoners is an enormous fire, and between the fire and the prisoners is a raised walkway, along which people walk carrying things on their heads “including figures of men and animals made of wood, stone and other materials”. The prisoners cannot see the raised walkway or the people walking, but they watch the shadows cast by the men, not knowing they are shadows. There are also echoes off the wall from the noise produced from the walkway.
Socrates suggests the prisoners would take the shadows to be real things and the echoes to be real sounds created by the shadows, not just reflections of reality, since they are all they had ever seen or heard. They would praise as clever, whoever could best guess which shadow would come next, as someone who understood the nature of the world, and the whole of their society would depend on the shadows on the wall.
[edit]Release from the caveAllegory of the Cave. Left (From top to bottom): Sun; Natural things; Shadows of natural things; Fire; Artificial objects; Shadows of artificial objects; Analogy level.
Right (From top to bottom): “Good” idea, Ideas, Mathematical objects, Light, Creatures and Objects, Image, Metaphor of the sun and the Analogy of the divided line.
Socrates then supposes that a prisoner is freed and permitted to stand up. If someone were to show him the things that had cast the shadows, he would not recognize them for what they were and could not name them; he would believe the shadows on the wall to be more real than what he sees.
“Suppose further,” Socrates says, “that the man was compelled to look at the fire: wouldn't he be struck blind and try to turn his gaze back toward the shadows, as toward what he can see clearly and hold to be real? What if someone forcibly dragged such a man upward, out of the cave: wouldn't the man be angry at the one doing this to him? And if dragged all the way out into the sunlight, wouldn't he be distressed and unable to see 'even one of the things now said to be true' because he was blinded by the light?”
After some time on the surface, however, the freed prisoner would acclimate. He would see more and more things around him, until he could look upon the Sun. He would understand that the Sun is the “source of the seasons and the years, and is the steward of all things in the visible place, and is in a certain way the cause of all those things he and his companions had been seeing” (516b–c). (See also Plato's metaphor of the Sun, which occurs near the end of The Republic, Book VI.)[3]
[edit]Return to the cave
Socrates next asks Glaucon to consider the condition of this man. “Wouldn't he remember his first home, what passed for wisdom there, and his fellow prisoners, and consider himself happy and them pitiable? And wouldn't he disdain whatever honors, praises, and prizes were awarded there to the ones who guessed best which shadows followed which? Moreover, were he to return there, wouldn't he be rather bad at their game, no longer being accustomed to the darkness? Wouldn't it be said of him that he went up and came back with his eyes corrupted, and that it's not even worth trying to go up? And if they were somehow able to get their hands on and kill the man who attempts to release and lead them up, wouldn't they kill him?” (517a) The prisoners, ignorant of the world behind them, would see the freed man with his corrupted eyes and be afraid of anything but what they already know. Philosophers analyzing the allegory argue that the prisoners would ironically find the freed man stupid due to the current state of his eyes and temporarily not being able to see the shadows which are the world to the prisoners.
[edit]Remarks on the allegory
Socrates remarks that this allegory can be taken with what was said before, namely the metaphor of the Sun, and the divided line. In particular, he likens
“the region revealed through sight”—the ordinary objects we see around us—”to the prison home, and the light of the fire in it to the power of the Sun. And in applying the going up and the seeing of what's above to the soul's journey to the intelligible place, you not mistake my expectation, since you desire to hear it. A god doubtless knows if it happens to be true. At all events, this is the way the phenomena look to me: in the region of the knowable the last thing to be seen, and that with considerable effort, is the idea of good; but once seen, it must be concluded that this is indeed the cause for all things of all that is right and beautiful—in the visible realm it gives birth to light and its sovereign; in the intelligible realm, itself sovereign, it provided truth and intelligence—and that the man who is going to act prudently in private or in public must see you it” (517b–c).
After “returning from divine contemplations to human evils”, a man
“is graceless and looks quite ridiculous when—with his sight still dim and before he has gotten sufficiently accustomed to the surrounding darkness—he is compelled in courtrooms or elsewhere to contend about the shadows of justice or the representations of which they are the shadows, and to dispute about the way these things
are understood by men who have never seen justice itself?” (517d–e)
[edit]References in CultureMt 11:19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.” ’ But wisdom is proved right by her actions.”
Mt 12:42 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now one greater than Solomon is here.
wisdom is proved right by her actions.”
it is like having an bible at home in your on a shelf ,but never read it ,or some read it but do not react to it ,
unless ;
PS 143:8 Let me hear Your lovingkindness in the morning;
For I trust in You;
Teach me the way in which I should walk;
For to You I lift up my soul.
PS 143:9 Deliver me, O LORD, from my enemies;
I take refuge in You.
PS 143:10
Teach me to do Your will,
For You are my God;
Let Your good Spirit lead me on level ground.
PS 143:11 For the sake of Your name, O LORD, revive me.
In Your righteousness bring my soul out of trouble.PS 145:10 All Your works shall give thanks to You, O LORD,
And Your godly ones shall bless You.
PS 145:11 They shall speak of the glory of Your kingdom
And talk of Your power;
PS 145:12 To make known to the sons of men Your mighty acts
And the glory of the majesty of Your kingdom.
PS 145:13 Your kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,What is called TRUTH in scriptures is a communication connection ,little like a phone line
But unless you are connected with the line in question you can not speak or call anyone ,and so it is withe God,s truth,if you are not connected ,you can not communicate with him ,
This is what Christ try to explain to the Pharisees ,
We have to be in a state of godly truth .to atract God,s attention
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 02 2013,05:00) IF THE TRUTH OF GOD HIS TRUTH AND AS BEEN WRITTEN FOR US TO KNOW HIM ,THEN IT IS ALSO TRUE THAT WE WILL ONLY UNDERSTAND HIS TRUTH IF WE GO TO HIM IN FULL SUBMISSION,AND SO LET HIS WORDS BE FULL PART OF OUR SOUL OUR HEART,AND MIND USING ALL OUR STRENGTH TO DO AS HE SAYS IN SCRIPTURES ,SO THAT GOD CAN THROUGH HIS OWN WORDS GIVE US ENLIGHTENMENT IN OUR HEARTS TO SEE HIS TRUTH AS HE WANT US TO UNDERSTAND IT ,IF NOT SO TELL ME WHAT WOULD YOU COLLECT OF INFO WOULD IT NOT BE YOUR OWN YES IT WOULD BE ,AND IT WOULD NOT BE THE TRUTH BUT YOURS.
Terricca……….then why don you believe what God said when he said plainly there were “NO OTHER GOD” that he looked and found NONE” and Why don't you believe God created everything BY Himself and “ALONE” . You preach out of one side of your mouth but deny His very words and act like you have some “secret” Meanings to them.
That reminds not of them that profess God but deny the power thereofpeace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 10 2013,07:07) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 02 2013,05:00) IF THE TRUTH OF GOD HIS TRUTH AND AS BEEN WRITTEN FOR US TO KNOW HIM ,THEN IT IS ALSO TRUE THAT WE WILL ONLY UNDERSTAND HIS TRUTH IF WE GO TO HIM IN FULL SUBMISSION,AND SO LET HIS WORDS BE FULL PART OF OUR SOUL OUR HEART,AND MIND USING ALL OUR STRENGTH TO DO AS HE SAYS IN SCRIPTURES ,SO THAT GOD CAN THROUGH HIS OWN WORDS GIVE US ENLIGHTENMENT IN OUR HEARTS TO SEE HIS TRUTH AS HE WANT US TO UNDERSTAND IT ,IF NOT SO TELL ME WHAT WOULD YOU COLLECT OF INFO WOULD IT NOT BE YOUR OWN YES IT WOULD BE ,AND IT WOULD NOT BE THE TRUTH BUT YOURS.
Terricca……….then why don you believe what God said when he said plainly there were “NO OTHER GOD” that he looked and found NONE” and Why don't you believe God created everything BY Himself and “ALONE” . You preach out of one side of your mouth but deny His very words and act like you have some “secret” Meanings to them.
That reminds not of them that profess God but deny the power thereofpeace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
genewhy you do not believe when God says that he his the GOD OF GODS,???
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