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Hi t8,
First, God created the world through and for him, to be the firstborn human with eternal life and then be a King of kings over all of creation. Such cannot be likened to your average Joe.
Hi Jodi,
You say here: God created the world through Jesus
Can you please explain to me what you mean here: in more term…
How specifically did God created the world through Jesus?Thank You in advance for your answer!
____________
God bless
Ed JT8……so you believe and teach Jesus “himself” is the ANOINTING , you couldn’t be more wrong even if you tried. My answer to you is No, he is not the anointing that was upon him, he is the anonit-ed one. NOT the anointing .
Now I will ask you two question, requiring a yes or no, ANSWER.
1….DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS WAS ANOINT-ED and recieved , THE HOLY SPIRIT AT THE RIVER JORDAN?
2….Do you believe Jesus HIMSELF IS THE ANOINTING SPIRIT?
So you have two questions here to answer with a YES OR NO answer PLEASE.
I have many, many, more, yes and no questions for you this is just the start.
ANTHONY you can join in also.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Hi Gene, can I answer you simplified one part yes/no questions?
1 Yes
2 YesHere is what you got wrong, you think…
God’s Holy Spirit
and
The Spirit of Christ
are just different names for the same spiritBUT
The truth is: one is the spirit of the Father
and the other is the spirit of the son____________
God bless
Ed JFeel free to ask more questions.
Oh wait a minute, You can’t, you don’t have a “Free Will”
Well maybe you can ask Jodi what questions she would ask as she does have a “Free Will”
____________
God bless
Ed JHi Gene
1. Do you believe the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily in Him. (Jesus Christ)
2. Do you believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah before His Baptismal?
3. Do you believe that Jesus Christ was before John the Baptist and Abraham and before the foundation of the world?
4. Do you believe Jesus Christ is the First and the Last?
5. Do you believe that Joseph was Jesus Christ biological Father?
6. Do you believe that Jesus Christ was God with us?
7. Do you think God is going to allow you to play games with Him for ever?
God bless 🙏 I’m still praying for you.
Hi Anthony,
1 Yes
2 Yes
3 No, only “The Spirit of Christ” was before the foundation of the world
4 First and Last what?
5 No
6. Yes, after his Baptism with His Father’s Spirit
7 Ha ha haSee, this is how y/n questions help to clarify one’s ideas
____________
God bless
Ed JHi Edj
Thanks for the reply. Gene hasn’t answered yet, I thought he wanted to play a a question and answer game of some kind.
God bless
Hi All
Info that may help.
The Watchtower book, Holy Spirit–The force behind the coming new order, printed in 1975 says that Jesus became the Christ at His baptism. This is not true. Jesus was born the Christ as it says in Luke 2:11
for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord,”
The literal translation of the Hebrew word mashiach (messiah) is “anointed“, Hebrew mashiakh (משיח) meaning “anointed”, and is usually transliterated into English as “Messiah“. Christ (Greek: Χριστός, Christós, meaning “the anointed one“)
In the New Testament, Adam, and, most notably, Jesus Christ are called “son of God,” while followers of Jesus are called, “sons of God.” In the New Testament, ”
Jesus came to be called “Jesus Christ” (meaning “Jesus the Khristós”, i.e. “Jesus the Messiah” or “Jesus the Anointed”)
But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to ransom those under the law, so that we might receive adoption. As proof that you are children, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying out, ‘Abba, Father!” – Ephesians 4:4-6
prophecy of Isaiah, “The spirit of the Lord is upon me, because the Lord has anointed me; he has sent me to bring glad tidings to the lowly, to heal the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and release to the prisoners…to give them the oil of gladness in place of mourning…” (61:1, 3b), was fulfilled on multiple levels.
Jesus is the fulfillment of the whole of the Old Testament. He is the new Adam, the new Aaron, the new Moses, the new David and Solomon. He is anointed for a special mission, a mission to be our true priest, prophet and king. He is the Redeemer, Savior, Messiah/Christ. He is Yeshua Ha’Mashiach, Jesus the Messiah. His name means, literally, “Yahweh saves, the anointed one.”
May God bless you, for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord,”
To all…… simple question….. IS Jesus the ANOINTING, “himself” OR the ANOINT-ED ONE. which is it? LET STAY SIMPLE and not go off in a tangent all over the place .
Peace and love to you and yours ……..gene
God created every thing through the channel of an act, for his purpose,
IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
From the above is quite clear that there was a BEGINNING ENTITY. This beginning entity was definitely the first ever creature ever created. According to the above verse of scripture, within this BEGINNING ENTITY, the first ever creature, WAS “THE WORD”.
Thus we are aware that”THE WORD” and THE BEGINNING are TWO entities not one, THE BEGINNING, and “THE WORD”.
TWO IN ONE SPIRIT ENTITY! Let’s continue reading John1:1
and the Word was with God,
In the above, it is more than clear that “THE WORD” was with God.
Thus we can conclude that since as explained the phrase: IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD were TWO ENTITIES,
and now according to John, we know that THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, it is obvious that they were not TWO ENTITIES AT ALL, BUT
THREE ENTITIES. OBVIOUS ALWAYS SPIRITS.
Now, these three entities were definitely:
GOD, “THE WORD” and THE BEGINNING, the first ever creature!
Now God is a being, “THE WORD” is a being, and the beginning is also a being.
Now are you still with every respect to you, with the WRONG mentality that
God created
not through a “preexisting ” being of somekind .
t8, I will not continue expanding on this most mysterious verse in John for now since it would be boring repeating certain phrases and words, despite the fact that by continuing the THREE BEINGS WILL BECOME MORE BEINGS, NOT JUST:
“THE WORD” The fact that God created ALL IN HIM, ALL BY HIM, AND ALL FOR HIM! Permit me to ask you:
HIM to whom is a reference!
t8, I simply wanted to make clear to you and all, that GOD CREATED DEFINITELY ALL BY HIMSELF, but definitely not in the way we understand SINCE WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT GOD IS, EXCEPT THAT GOD IS
THE FATHER, “THE WORD” and THE HOLY GHOST as well declared in
1John5:7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel….. there are TWO things that bare wittness, of one YEHWEH WHO IS OUR GOD, ONE IS YEHWEH “HIMSELF” , “I am that I am”. And his word “IS” Him. you can’t seperate our God, YEHWEH , from his words, NO MORE THE YOU CAN BE SEPARATED FROM YOUR WORDS. You and your words are one and the same person ALSO.
THE WORD GOD, is not a person or being, it is a relationship “DESCRIPTOR” term. It describes the power who you trust in . The original Hebrew language was pictorial, like the Egyptian language was. The word for God was a head of an OX, with a Shepards STAFF leaning toward it. The ox head, Represented power, the Shepards staff , is what they leaned on and trusted in for support.
So the word God means a kind of real or imagined power, you put your trust in for strength or support. Again the word GOD is a descriptor, of a person or thing, rather real or imagined .
Therefore it says, the LORD (YEHWEH) “our” GOD. IS “ONE LORD”. that is why it does nor say one GOD, but instead it says “ONE LORD”.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi TC,
There is NOTHING to reconcile, your problem is you search for a passage to fit your doctrine instead of reading a passage and applying it to the direct surrounding context.
9 But what went ye out to see? a PHROPHET? yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet, 10 for this is he of whom it hath been written, Lo, I do send My messenger before thy face, who shall prepare thy way before thee. 11 Verily I say to you, there hath not risen, among those born of women, a greater than John the Baptist, but he who is least in the reign of the heavens is greater than he. 12 And, from the days of John the Baptist till now, the reign of the heavens doth suffer violence, and violent men do take it by force, 13 for all the prophets and the law till John did prophesy, 14 and if ye are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was about to come; 15 he who is having ears to hear — let him hear. 16 And to what shall I liken this generation? it is like little children in market-places, sitting and calling to their comrades, 17 and saying, We piped unto you, and ye did not dance, we lamented to you, and ye did not smite the breast. 18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a demon; 19 the Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, Lo, a man, a glutton, and a wine-drinker, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners, and wisdom was justified of her children. 20 Then began he to reproach the cities in which were done most of his mighty works, because they did not reform.
There had been NO greater prophet than John the Baptist to that point. Jesus compares how they said John had a devil because he didn’t eat or drink and NOW they call him, THE SON OF MAN a glutton. The fact that Jesus speaks of history up to the time of John declaring John as the greatest prophet up to that point, doesn’t make Jesus greater than John because he wasn’t a man. The people ridiculed John and Jesus who calls himself the Son of Man, and Jesus says what shall I liken this generation? The people wouldn’t believe in John who Jesus called the greatest prophet up to that point, and now they will not believe in him either, him being the SON of MAN according to his own words in this passage.
Isaiah prophesied about both John and Jesus, BOTH MEN, and one comes before the other to proclaim the other. Though Jesus comes after John he is preferred before him, as he is before John, before John according to God’s promise of eternal life, before John as firstborn of the dead. When God created the world He created it through and for the Son of Man who God would perfect and give dominion of His hands over to. God created the earth and man, in order for man to obtain eternal life and live forever upon God’s beautiful creation, He created it FOR the LAST ADAM, a righteous eternal human. Since the foundation of the world Jesus had been appointed chief over John, he was to be ANOINTED ABOVE all fellows, given the inheritance of all of God’s creation.
John 1:27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before (above) me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
You want to apply TC an invention to passages and not the Word of God that had been given that then was fulfilled in the flesh of Jesus, where he as the bread of life coming from heaven/God, is perfected FLESH able to bring life through being as a lamb without spot or blemish, having been made through being called to righteousness by an anointing Christos of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said he was anointed and SENT, the anointed Son of Man had come from heaven, meaning come from God, born of God, SENT by God to restore that which was lost.
What makes Jesus greater than John, is obvious, by God’s predetermined purpose Jesus of Nazareth is the HUMAN who God PERFECTED and made him to be the source for eternal salvation, which John receives because of Jesus, to the glory of the WORKS of the One True God by the Power, Wisdom, Understanding, Knowledge, Council and Might, FOREKNOWLEDGE, DETERMINED PURPOSE of the One True God’s Spirit.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second MAN IS the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
The image of Jesus a PERFECT MAN who is of the image of God, is the SAME image that we will be. Exactly WHY in Genesis we are told that when God made Adam He did so in His image, He did so by His foreknowledge and determined purpose of the Last Adam.
In Genesis the first Adam was given dominion over creation, but it is the Last Adam that would be given dominion for an eternity. He receives this dominion NOT because he pre-existed, it is given to a SON OF MAN, a descendant of David, the firstborn of the dead MADE a master overall because he suffered as we suffered and thus can be a righteous judge.
Pslam 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou MADEST him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
CHRIST- Christos -the anointed, is a MAN anointed WITH God’s Spirit, God had VISITED him and rested upon him, giving him of His Spirit. As this anointed one, ONE CHOSEN FROM among the people, of thy fellows, of the brethren, he BECAME the firstfruits having been raised from the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and BECOME the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath MADE that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Jesus of Nazareth was MADE into a master and the anointed, not by his birth pre-existing as a master the Christ, Jesus says EXACTLY how it is that he is the Christ and a Master, the Son of MAN a master over the Sabbath, a master able to forgive sins and heal, a master over the elements of the earth, because the Spirit descended upon him like a dove and rested upon him and then SENT him out into the world, not to do his will but God’s will, hence why he is said to have come from heaven, as this Son of Man had been SENT by God to fulfill God’s predetermined purpose.
Then this master the anointed DIED, but having been raised from the dead incorruptible with power, with glory, he had life once again. He is the Son of Man with eternal life, a descendant of David according to the flesh having been predestined before creation to sit on David’s throne for an eternity, a Son of God ACCORDING to the Holy Spirit BY his resurrection from the dead, given the inheritance of a firstborn son, dominion over all the works of God’s hands.
Hi Gene and Carmel
I just got done reading your last post haven’t had time to look in to them closely, but I know something does sound right with either one. That’s because there probably not right. For one I saw that you really don’t know how to talk about Holy Spirit you really don’t know who it or what the Holy Spirit is, it’s not a person, because this Spirit lives in my heart.what I think is it’s the Spirit of the Father and The Only Begotten Son. Only two beings not three. Gene I’ll get back to you on the way you use the word Word.
God bless 🙏
T8……so you believe and teach Jesus “himself” is the ANOINTING , you couldn’t be more wrong even if you tried. My answer to you is No, he is not the anointing that was upon him, he is the anonit-ed one. NOT the anointing .
I haven’t thought about this specific question before. My answer would be no. He was anointed by God Spirit, the Holy Spirit.
But he was also born from God unlike us who were born as the offspring of Adam, but since have had this new birth. As God is his Father, then I do not believe he was ordinary like us, but a perfect man instead. Without sin, he was able to do that which Adam did not. He opened the way for humanity to fellowship with God eternally, unlike Adam who closed that door for us.
Hi Anthony,
But when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to ransom those under the law, so that we might receive adoption. As proof that you are children, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying out, ‘Abba, Father!” – Ephesians 4:4-6
The Son that was SENT, was Jesus of Nazareth who had been BORN of the Spirit at the river and God declared at that moment “THOU art my Son“.
When the fullness of time had come, God’s word that He had spoken to David, but that had been WITH God long before David, even in the time of eternity before man and death, BECAME flesh as God’s word was that on a certain day God would beget David’s son, making him into His own Son.
Perfect example Anthony of how you take a passage that speaks of a Son of Man, Jesus of Nazareth, and say it it NOT speaking of him.. Perfect example Anthony of how you take a passage and refuse to apply God’s word, His promises, and His determined purpose.
WAS NOT this Jesus spoken of below BORN of a WOMAN, born under the law?? Is it not this Jesus of Nazareth who is called God’s Son upon being born of God’s Spirit and who is said to be SENT? It MOST CERTAINLY is.
Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased….Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness…14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about…18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath ANOINTED me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath SENT me to heal the brokenhearted to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Psalm 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
ALL passages that speak of Jesus as God’s Son are TRULY speaking of JESUS, the son of David. You change this, refusing to apply God’s word that was given to Abraham, David, and Isaac, His words spoken through His foreknowledge and predetermined purpose that were with Him before the world was.
To All,
WORD logos,
of speech
a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
what someone has said
a word
the sayings of God
decree, mandate or orderGod spoke giving promises to what He would cause to occur in the future. He would cause a man of the seed of David to be born of His Spirit, such is the WORD, the WORD of God. This WORD was concerning a human of flesh and blood who would be born of God’s Spirit and sent out into the world. This WORD of God became flesh in a son of David, the son of David who was named JESUS.
God’s WORD contained many promises that this son of David named Jesus would fulfill according to his flesh having been anointed, including becoming our salvation through shedding his blood on the cross, including becoming God’s firstborn.
God promised He would bring forth a man according to the flesh of the seed of David through a virgin birth.
God promised He would rest His Spirit upon the seed of David, a man according to the flesh.
God promised He would send the anointed, this seed of David according to the flesh, out into the world to perform signs and miracles, to save that which was lost.
God promised He would not allow this anointed one, chosen from among the people foreknown by God, He would not allow his flesh to see corruption.
God promised He would give this seed of David according to the flesh upon rising from the dead David’s throne for an eternity.
God promised He would take this Son of Man according to the flesh and give him dominion over the works of His hands.
Below is but one example of God’s WORD being fulfilled in that of a human, a man of flesh. Marvelous how God builds our faith in Him through the writings of men giving us of His Word, first spoken in promises and then later shown to be fulfilled. OT gives the promises, NT speaks to their fulfillment, and the NT even quotes OT showing us exactly how God’s WORD was fulfilled, made true in a man of flesh named Jesus.
26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. 27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. 28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. 29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. 30 But God raised him from the dead: 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Hi Anthony,
Could you comment on my last post on the “The Creations of Genesis 1 and John 1 Revised” thread?
Jodi.
Logos has a meaning, we all know about that.
But the Logos was with God in the beginning and became flesh.
Something had to be first with God and it looks like the Logos was.
Truth also has a meaning. But Truth was also with God because Jesus said he was the truth and he was one with the Father.
Just because logos, truth, life, and light are attributes of God doesn’t mean that a being that came from God cannot be these and named these.
You focus on the attributes and ignore the person.
Did not Jesus change the name of some of his disciples? Names are often attributes of God ot titles that describe an attribute.
Hi T8,
Thanks for the insight. To capitalize “word” is up to the discretion of the interpreter. I believe that the “word” became one with the seed of David (John 1:14) and became the “Word”, a person. Christ epitomized the words or thoughts of God. The expressed mind of God or “word” became one with the person of the seed of David through the holy spirit.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
To all……there is no word “being”, a word is intelligent utterance, it is brought forth from the mind. God the Fathers words come from his mind, just as yours do. words are a product of the spirit in a person. RATHER that spirit be of the devil, or of God depends on the SPIRITS PRODUCING THEM.
BUT TO SAY A BEING is an actual WORD, IS NOT TRUE. BEINGS, and the words they speak are one, and the same . You cannot seperate beings from their words. The “LORD” our GOD, and His words are one and THE SAME THING.
Jesus is not the word of God, He is the one who speaks “God’s words to us. And therefore God’s mind and will , TO US.
Jesus is called the word of God, because he tells us what GOD is telling him to tell us, JESUS , himself is not the word of God, the LORD OUR GOD WHO IS SPIRIT, was “IN” the “man” Jesus and was speaking through him to us. Just as he was in the prophets before Jesus ever existed.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Jodi
You forgot the first part of my post.
The Watchtower book, Holy Spirit–The force behind the coming new order, printed in 1975 says that Jesus became the Christ at His baptism. This is not true. Jesus was born the Christ as it says in Luke 2:11
for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord,”
God bless 🙏
Hi Anthony,
You don’t apply verse 10 of Luke 2 to verse 11. The angel is proclaiming good tidings that SHALL be for all people, “FOR UNTO you” he says, to begin verse 11, telling us what he is going to say in verse 11 directly applies to what he just said in verse 10. Verse 10 is a direct reference to God’s promise to Abraham and it is foolish not to apply it to what the angel says regarding the infant in verse 11.
Was Jesus a savior at his birth, are we saved by his birth?
Was Jesus a master at his birth, then who and what did he have as an infant authority over?
Anthony you know full well that the infant is called a savior because of what he was going to do in the future, die for our sins.
The one who died for our sins, thus was our SAVIOR through his death, he had been born an infant of the blood of Abraham, he had been born as the one who would fulfill God’s promises to Abraham, David, and Isaiah. The one who died on the cross, was indeed Christ the Lord, our SAVIOR.
If the infant was yet the savior, and the savior is Christ the Lord, then it stands to reason that the infant was yet Christ the Master. I would say such should be obvious because what infant is a master? But more importantly scripture gives us the direct answer, that as he, as an infant was yet the savior but was in fact predestined to be the savior, he was also yet the anointed master, which he was ALSO was predestined to be.
Christ the Lord is the savior which the infant WOULD BE, not already was a savior, otherwise God would not need to PERFECT him nor have him die.
FACT, the infant Jesus is called a savior, but he is NOT YET a savior, and in the passage the savior is Christ the Lord. To assert that at his birth the angel is telling us Jesus was Christ the Master because his former self was in him and that former self was Christ the master is just an invention of man, one of which speaks against the word of God, specifically God’s word He gave to Isaiah. It is also against the direct words of Jesus where Jesus even quotes Isaiah concerning himself.
You don’t want to address my posts because they are too specific in detail of what passages actually say, details you would rather ignore. You’d rather just speak hypocritically about my long posts.
28 So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”
Matthew 9:6 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.”
Anthony HOW IS IT that Jesus has the ability to forgive sins and heal? How is it that Jesus has authority, thus is a master? He is the Son of Man who had been anointed with God’s Spirit, not because his former self finally bared fruit that had been in him as you say since he was an infant.
Luke 3: 22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.” 23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry 4:1 Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness…. 14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside… 7 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written: 18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has SENT me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free, 19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” 20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him.
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