The Ordinary Jesus Brigade

[Proclaimer]

You have never heard me say Jesus is not the Christ,

Was Jesus the Christ in the City of David? If not, then that is one instance right there. The next question would be when he became the messiah according to you.

[Proclaimer]

God created every thing through the channel of an act, for his purpose, not through a “preexisting ” being of somekind .

Bible

but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

Gene

but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and by whom he channelled the act of creating the universe for his purpose. 

Honestly, if you are allowed to add as many words as you want to scripture, then anyone could justify anything.

To be fair, why not copy this scripture, then reword as you see fit. Then we can judge whether you are being faithful to the text. So far it is not looking very good.

[Proclaimer]

According to other scriptures I have over the years quoted here, that it was God who created everything “ALONE” AND BY “HIMSELF.  MANY SCRIPTURE SAY THAT.

Regardless of creating through, God is still the only creator. In other words Zeus for example didn’t create anything either through the Son or not. Only YHWH created all things. The Son is not the creator, only the means by thich God created all things. All things through and for him.

No one but God created all things. He created all things through the Son of God.

Think about it. If the Son is creator too and all things were created through him, then did he create things through himself?

[Proclaimer]

ME: You are reading VERY incorrectly to what I have said. Jesus was able to overcome his temptation and not sin because God’s Spirit had anointed him.

Hang on a minute, are you not one of those who believe as Nick does that he was anointed at the Jordan with no prior connection to the Holy Spirit?

So how was he able to not sin, prior to his baptism if he was born a son of Adam like us? Please explain yourself.

[Jodi]

Good Morning t8,

The Son in this passage is Jesus, and he is appointed heir of all things just like God had promised to David, it was a Son of Man who God was going to give dominion to over all the works of God’s hands to. When God made earth, man, all things he did it BECAUSE of this Son of Man who He would give dominion to. Adam had been given dominion over the earth, Jesus as the firstborn of the dead, the last Adam receives the inheritance of the earth, he also receive charger over the angels as well.

Gene is right, and you are trying to prove your view pretending that the word through can only mean one thing, when in fact it is commonly known, used often in the exact way we are using it.

So t8, Before I was found with child I created a nursery, it was created through and for my child. So to you this can only mean ONE THING, my child pre-existed and created the nursery.

When we are given the future which speaks of the coming forth of one from the tribe of Judah who would be a ruler in Israel ruling the world, and then this one from Judah is born and fulfills other prophecies concerning him as a Son of Man, we should have all faith that this Son of Man will return and be ruler in Israel. God created all things by His hands and He did it through and for this Son of Man who He had foretold He was going to give all dominion to, thus he was to be placed before all, this being established even before all existed.

[GeneBalthrop]

T8…….God was with him  but not “IN HIM” till he was baptized and anointed with his HOLY SPIRIT,  at the Jordan river.

If you understood the real meaning of the Greek word , dia, as applied to our text, you would understand that it was for the purpose of all mankind,  God alone and by himself created everything , Jesus being the first fruit of that purpose. 

T8…..Jesus  the Christ, did not exist in any form of any kind, before he came into existence at his berth, you preach a false JESUS as existing as whatever,  before his berth on this earth. You nor anyone else who preach that have  any idea, what he was before his berth on this earth.  If you or anyone else preach a preexisting JESUS CHRIST, in any form before his berth on this earth are simply put wrong. 

As far as Nick goes he was right,  Jesus was not the CHRIST, OR MESSIAH,  before his anointing  at the Jordan river, when he recieved the HOLY SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD, into him. 

Tell me T8, do you people just throw out all the scriptures that disagree with you?  By the way the word “by” also comes from the Greek word Dia,  also.  You need to make a true and honest word study of that word and how it applies to our text.   Trinitarian translators forced the text to meet their preexistence views of Jesus,  they also force the text to say Jesus is a God.  They are “ANTICHRISTS ” because they believe Jesus is a God and had no need to be ANOINTED,  because he was already a God.  Do you believe that also?  Go read what I wrote on “2 Ths 2 explained”. See where you stand.

If you really want this site to take off, you need to adjust you understandings, and see what happens here.  May God grant you that, for Jesus’ sake for the furtherance of the truth.

Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

[Proclaimer]

Since I do not see much transparency and honesty here, I have decided to show the debate here in a concise and clear way for all to see. Feel free to correct me on any of the points made and I will amend accordingly.

NOTE: GJN = Gene, Jodi, and Nick

T8: Was Jesus the Christ in the City of David?

GJN: No

T8: When did Jesus become the Christ?

GJN: At the Jordan.

T8: So Jesus in scripture refers to the man only and is never the Christ.

GJN: Correct. Jesus is just an ordinary man like us. Jesus Christ is the union of this ordinary man with the Holy Spirit that took place for the first time at the Jordan.

T8: So Jesus is not the Christ then.

GJN: Correct. Jesus is just an ordinary man like us and is not the Christ. Only at the Jordan did he become the Christ, thus Jesus Christ is the Christ. Jesus is never the Christ. It is a rule.

It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist

[Jodi]

Hi t8,

Well convenient to join our 3 names together into GJN, but to be honest I don’t really like my name to be connected to Nicks.

I am trying to follow you with what you said,

YOU: GJN: Correct. Jesus is just an ordinary man like us and is not the Christ. Only at the Jordan did he become the Christ, thus Jesus Christ is the Christ. Jesus is never the Christ. It is a rule.

ME: Jesus is a man but I wouldn’t say he was an ordinary man.

First, God created the world through and for him, to be the firstborn human with eternal life and then be a King of kings over all of creation. Such cannot be likened to your average Joe.

Second, his birth was foretold and occurred through the power of God’s Spirit bringing forth a human of the seed of David by a virgin. Such cannot be likened to your average Joe.

Thirdly, God anointed him with His Spirit to a measure that made him in the form of God, able to manipulate the elements of the earth, from healing people of infirmities, raising the dead, walking on water, turning water into wine, multiplying food etc.. such cannot be likened to your average Joe.

Fourthly, he was called to righteousness through the anointing of God’s Spirit, where God would hold his hand and not allow him to fail, he would remain without sin, become perfected through displaying obedience and faith unto his death, where God thus made him our source for eternal salvation by erasing the penalty for our sins, which was the penalty of death, giving all men a resurrection. Certainly not an average Joe.

I am sure I could think of a few more, but the point is that you would like to reduce the glory that I see in Jesus by saying I think he was/is just an ordinary man. There is truly nothing ordinary about the man Jesus. Honestly the assertion you are trying to make is just absolutely false with the language you are using. Don’t you really mean to say I have a problem because I reference Jesus as a man, when you say he was more than a man? As a man Jesus was not an ordinary man, but you are trying to tell me that I believe he was an ordinary man, which is FALSE. That is the language you are using, you probably need to fix that. You are the one with the problem however because you try and tell me that you believe that Jesus was in fact a man, a human, but then you want to tell me that I need to believe that he wasn’t an actual human, he was more than just a human, either your a human or you are not a human. Plain and simple if you are more than a human you are not a human, you are more than a human. There are about 100 passages in the NT that call Jesus the Son of Man, or a man –anthropos, but you say what exactly t8?? I am not sure yet what you think the human growing in Mary’s womb actually was, as you say there is a son of God who emptied himself of his glory, but then you say that Jesus as the only begotten of the Father who the people beheld the GLORY of was the one who emptied himself of his glory.

Christ is Christos meaning “anointed”

Jesus of Nazareth was “anointed” he said himself he was and he doesn’t speak of it according to his birth but according to the prophecy of Isaiah. At his birth an angel refers to him according to prophecy as well, not just Isaiah’s prophecy but in the verse prior he speaks of the promise given to Abraham concerning his seed that would come forth and be the anointed bringing blessing to all nations.In that verse he says he is declaring good tidings and then he speaks of the infant according to the good tidings which Isaiah spoke of. Scripture couldn’t fit more perfectly together here t8, but you don’t see it yet. 

Define the word Christ t8? How is it that Jesus is called Jesus ANOINTED.

OT

Anoint — Mashach , smear with liquid, consecrate,

Consecrate – Male’, to fill, be full

Sanctify – Qadash, be separate, hallowed, consecrated

Exodus 28: 41 And thou shalt put them upon Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him; and shalt anoint them, and consecrate them, and sanctify them, that they may minister unto me in the priest’s office.

Psalms 89:9 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people. 20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed (mashach) him: 21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. 22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him. 23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. 24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. 29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven. 

Isaiah 61: 1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed (mashach) me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness…14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about…18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath ANOINTED me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath SENT me to heal the brokenhearted to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

 

 

[Proclaimer]

Jodi, your long posts are wasted because I and others do not have the time to read essays. I also dislike them because it is too easy to hide within many words and you can be less honest too because of complexity.

I way prefer a yes or no as it is very clear and honest. More than that and the Evil One can be hidden in the detail. Regardless, you are free to continue so long as you realise that I’m not reading all your post and neither will most others. What I do is skim read and look for the first error that deserves a reply. I will do that in my next post. Essays have their place, but discussions are mostly point by point conversations.

[Proclaimer]

Don’t you really mean to say I have a problem because I reference Jesus as a man, when you say he was more than a man?

Of course Jesus was a man, I have no problem with this. It is a central belief I hold. My problem is not about something I believe about Jesus, but what the three of you believe and teach.

Nick has a rule. Jesus is always talking about a man. Whereas Jesus Christ is the same man, but adjoined or filled with the Spirit. So Jesus in the City of David is not the Christ, but after the Jordan he is the Christ.

I’m pretty sure you hold this view too and I know Gene holds this view. The three of you  seem to have this belief in common.

Here is the problem. All three of you do not actually believe Jesus is the Christ. Jesus was born in the City of David and you say he was not the Christ. When Jesus turned 5 years old, he was not the Christ. When he was 20 he was not the Christ. The day before his baptism he was not the Christ. So what does scripture say about that?

It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist

What you guys actually believe is Jesus Christ is the Christ., but Jesus is not the Christ.

This qualifies as a belief that an Antichrist holds right? Yes or no?

[Proclaimer]

The other problem I have with you three is your inability to answer yes or no, so I’m betting you will not answer this way, but will continue to write essays instead of answering simple questions.

“But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes ‘ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil

[Anthony]

Hi T8 and Jodi

Good post’s T81. GJN, neglect to see that “The Messiah ” is Christ, the Annoited One

As you said: It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist.

Jodi said: Define the word Christ t8?     Me:  Christ is a translitralion from the word MESSIAH.                       Jodi,T8 said: that you write a essay, sometimes a book,it seems that you can’t answer with a yes or no.  T8 is right you go all around the barn to redirect the conversation and you end up answering according to your meaning not Scripture, why is this?

But let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes ‘ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil .

God bless 🙏

[Anthony]

Hi Gene 👋

You haven’t been praising Jodi so much lately. You must beginning to see some truth in things others are saying, scripture. God bless keep your Spiritual eyes open, your doing good.

Praise no man praise God.

[GeneBalthrop]

T8……so you believe and teach Jesus “himself”  is the ANOINTING ,  you couldn’t  be more wrong even if you tried.  My answer to you is No, he is not the anointing that was upon him, he is the anonit-ed one. NOT the anointing . 

Now I will ask you two question, requiring a yes or no, ANSWER. 

1….DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS WAS ANOINT-ED and recieved ,  THE HOLY SPIRIT AT THE RIVER JORDAN?

2….Do you believe Jesus HIMSELF IS THE ANOINTING SPIRIT?

So you have two questions here to answer with a YES OR NO answer PLEASE.

I have many, many,  more,  yes and no questions for you this is just the start.

ANTHONY you can join in also.

Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

 

[GeneBalthrop]

ANTHONY……Jodi has expounded scripture more clearly then anyone else here has that is for sure. She has went into scriptures and put them together for us, but if you fail to read the posts what good does it do for you or anyone else?

Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

[Anthony]

Hi Gene

1. Do you believe the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily in Him. (Jesus Christ)

2. Do you believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah before His Baptismal?

3. Do you believe that Jesus Christ was before John the Baptist and Abraham and before the foundation of the world?

4. Do you believe Jesus Christ is the First and the Last?

5. Do you believe that Joseph was Jesus Christ biological Father?

6. Do you believe that Jesus Christ was God with us?

7. Do you think God is going to allow you to play games with Him for ever?

God bless 🙏 I’m still praying for you.

[Truthcomber]

Gene:

 

You: 1….DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS WAS ANOINT-ED and recieved , THE HOLY SPIRIT AT THE RIVER JORDAN?

 

Me: N0!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Young’s Literal Translation
John 1:14 And the Word (word) became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.
The Messiah did not need to receive the spirit of God at Jordan. The word (lower case w) together with the human mind and heart of David became bonded as one. This is the word (spirit) of God revealed that was to grow in its bond as one with his expression. The spirit (word) of God conveyed the mind of God.

American King James Version
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind. 24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

 

Me: After we are baptized with the holy spirit, we conform to the Messiah’s mind that conformed to his and our Father’s mind.

Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

So I answered your question. Now answer what John 1:14 means to you. You have never clarified this.

 

[Truthcomber]

Gene,

 

You: 2….Do you believe Jesus HIMSELF IS THE ANOINTING SPIRIT?

Heb 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten (born) thee.

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten (born) of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amien.

Romans 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Me: The Messiah was ANNOITED  King and high priest from the resurrection and glorification with God after his ascension into heaven, NOT AT JORDAN.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

1 Cor 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Me: The Son of God of man became the son of God of the spirit. You do not see “the Son of Man anywhere in scripture anywhere past the gospels.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=the+son+of+man&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1

 

 

[Truthcomber]

Hi All,

John 1:27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before (above)  me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
Matt 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Me: So, how do you reconcile the above two scriptures? Is John greater than Christ or is Christ greater than John?

New American Standard Bible
Luke 17:21 nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.” 22 And He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it…24 “For just like the lightning, when it flashes out of one part of the sky, shines to the other part of the sky, so will the Son of Man be in His day.

Me: What would make Christ greater than John and still be born of Mary, his human mother? It is because John was born of the holy spirit at his birth, and Christ was of the holy spirit at his conception.

John 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even FROM his mother’s womb.

Me: The Word became one with flesh (John 1:14) at his conception. He was the Son of God of man. Thus the kingdom of God was among those in Luke 17:21 above. In verse 23, no one will see the Son of God of man but the Son of God of the spirit. He will come like lightning with a spirit body.

[Proclaimer]

T8……so you believe and teach Jesus “himself”  is the ANOINTING ,  you couldn’t  be more wrong even if you tried.

That’s just your way of denying that Jesus is the Christ it seems. If Jesus is just a man to you, and Anointed is Christ, then Jesus is not the Christ as you already admit, like when he was born, when he turned 20 years old. To you Jesus is not the Christ.

Your above statement is an attempt to ridicule my belief that Jesus is the Christ because you don’t believe he is the Anointed.

You clearly lay your cards on the table when you deny Jesus as the anointed. I have mentioned it before, but you really believe that Jesus Christ is the Christ, but Jesus is not. You have been given rope and now you are hanging yourself with it.

It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist.

Notice that it doesn’t say that denying Jesus Christ as the Christ? It is denying Jesus is the Christ.

[Author]

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