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Gene, there is a difference between the one who creates and the one by whom he creates through. Only one of those is the creator. No one else created the cosmos through the son of God or through another agent. What you need to realise at this point is that Christ and the Son of God as a mystery was not fully revealed during Old Testament times.
There are many mysteries that became known at and after the time of Christ such as Christ in us the hope of glory and the wisdom of God being made known to rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, via the Church.
As Believers, we need to keep up with revelations so that we are prepared for the season we find ourselves in. For example, if we decide to live by the law and be justified by the law, then we are not in the full revelation that is available in our season that is, the grace of God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
T8….what you need to realize is this, the Berean’s were more noble then those in Thesolinica, because they searched the scriptures (old testement) to see if what they were hearing or being told was true or not. SO , If what you or anyone else says doesn’t meet what the old testement say, then you are in error.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Gene, did I say the Old Testament has become irrelevant? No. What I basically said was there are new revelations to consider that take us to the next stage in God’s plan that you ignore. It’s like saying that the Law of Gravity is still relevant, even though we have the Law of Aerodynamics and you wrongly assume I’m bagging the Law of Gravity.
Once again you got the wrong end of the stick. It seems that so consistent are you with error that we can take it to the bank that Gene will be wrong.
False teachers have a spirit of error. Convince me that you are not a false teacher. Why are you consistently wrong. Even your analysis of what I say is wrong and far from the truth.
I believe that to be true, you have to love truth and the one who is true. Too many love theological debates because they want to be the truth or to win arguments for the sake of pride. But if we love truth, then we will even rejoice when we discover we are wrong, because we have just taken one more step closer to the truth and are no longer in darkness on that point.
Ed J,
Once again Micah does not speak of Jesus pre-existing, it says WHOSE comings forth are from old, from ancient times, from before time began. The coming forth of a human from the tribe of Judah is from ancient days. This should really be obvious to you if you consider other OT prophecies that perfectly align with Micah’s words. How do you take a person from the tribe of Judah being spoken to come, whose COMING has been Spoken by God since before He even created the world into that saying this person who is to come whose coming forth was promised along time ago, also means this Son of man promised to come pre-existed?
What Micah says is that a Son of Man from the tribe of Judah will come from Bethlehem, and that the prophecy that Micah was giving of this Son of man was NOT KNEW, it was spoken before him by Isaiah, even before that it was spoken by David, even before that God revealed it to Abraham, even before that God spoke it before time on earth began, before death thus when there was only the eternal God and His word about a Son of Man who would come and then sit at His right hand and who God would give all the works of HIS HANDS to.
Hi Jodi,
What came from eternity to Bethlehem?
____________
God bless
Ed JHi Ed J,
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
The going forth of one of the tribe of Judah have been from of old..
Our eternal God promised before time began, so at a time of everlasting before man and death existed, God promised eternal life to man. God knew exactly how eternal life would come, what the source of our eternal life would be, a man made perfect shedding his blood, who would be born in Bethlehem and would be of the tribe of Judah. The going forth of this man of the tribe of Judah was spoken from ancient of days, even by the eternal God before time on earth even existed.
The passage is NOT saying that a man from the tribe of Judah pre-existed from everlasting. The GOING FORTH of this man has been from of old, before Micah, Isaiah spoke about this man, before that David spoke about the coming of this man, before that God promised the coming forth of this man coming from Abraham’s seed, before that, before time on earth even existed the coming forth of this man was in our eternal God’s word.
The passage is NOT saying that a man from the tribe of Judah pre-existed from everlasting.
Do you really expect that all scriptures about the messiah will say he pre-existed or not?
The reality is we read about the man Jesus Christ of Nazareth and we read about the Word becoming flesh and Jesus Christ coming in the flesh. We read about God creating all things through his Word and again that God created all things through the Son. Then we see that the Son is now in the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.
So read scripture verses for what each is actually saying. If a scripture doesn’t mention that he had glory with God before the universe, then that doesn’t negate that truth because other verses address this. Surely you should have worked out by now that not all scriptures will delve into origin. Some will and some won’t. Don’t get hung up with the ones that don’t and pretend somehow that the idea is preposterous because this or that scripture doesn’t mention it.
Hi Jodi,
What came from eternity to Bethlehem?
Hi Ed J,
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
The going forth of one of the tribe of Judah have been from of old..
Hi Jodi,
What??? the tribe of Judah came from eternity to Bethlehem?
____________
God bless
Ed JHi t8,
The NT reveals God’s word from the OT being fulfilled.
The NT gives light to that which God spoke in the OT.
The NT repeatedly quotes the OT revealing the prophecies of God’s word being fulfilled in Jesus and by Jesus.
Certainly at different times new things did God declare unto people, these things most definitely were not knew to Him though, they had been WITH Him since eternity, before time on earth and death even existed.
The word of God spoken by the prophets had been WITH God since before time on earth began. When God revealed them they were new to us but they had been WITH God all along.
Paul revealed that God had promised eternal life to man even before the world was, this word of God that Paul spoke had been WITH God since the beginning, but was now being shared by Paul.
The foundation that God created the world upon was founded by that WORD that Paul shared that had been WITH God all along, God would not have created the world WITHout His word of eternal life that He promised. Since the word of eternal life was WITH God all along and that word of eternal life equates also to the word of God that eternal life comes from a Son of man shedding his blood, that WORD of this man was also WITH God before the world was. The man was not with God before the world was, the word from God was. God’s word that had been with God from the beginning was fulfilled in the man given the name Jesus. In the beginning was not a non flesh being that was with God and was God. What had been WITH God in the beginning was His own words promising eternal life, and God is also those words, eternal life. God gave Jesus eternal life, he is not the word, he BECAME the WORD through having BEEN MADE perfect, thus BECOMING the source of the word, and because he was MADE perfect he was not only the source of the word, but he RECEIVED himself the WORD, which was eternal life.
The problem I see you have t8, is that you declare something new is given in the NT, when in fact it is actually speaking of OT fulfillment, it matches perfectly with OT promises of God, you refuse to apply it. You do not apply God’s word to God’s word when it perfectly matches, instead you say this word or that word of God is a new thing revealed to us. There are many passages in the NT that speak against what you declare as a new revelation being revealed in the NT, also what you declare as a new revelation, is destruction to God’s word given to us in the OT that we see fulfilled in the NT.
You want to say God is revealing something new, but what God is revealing is that what He promised in ancient of days to the prophets and from eternity before sin and death existed, He can actually fulfill. The point of God speaking of it before it springs forth is so that when it does springs forth we know that God is true, and thus what God has promised that has yet to be fulfilled we can count on also as becoming true.
God told David that He would make David’s son into His own Son, so when God calls Jesus His Son in the NT one would think that it is obvious that He is calling him His Son according to His promise given to David. What makes it completely obvious is the fact that Paul tells us that Jesus is the son of David but is the Son of God according to God’s Holy Spirit. What makes it completely obvious is that we are told that the unity of our faith is that we believe the Son of God is a perfect man, the fullness and measure of an anointing of God’s Spirit. What makes it obvious is that Jesus is said to be full of the Spirit and power of God when the Spirit descended upon him like a dove, and Jesus declares that he has been anointed and sent out, himself quoting direct OT prophecy. What makes it completely obvious is that at the moment the Spirit descends upon Jesus God says to this anointed son of David, “THIS is my beloved Son”. God promised David that He would be a Father to his son, so it should be obvious that the Son who God says He sends into the world is this son of David who God had said He would be a Father to. Additionally obvious is the fact that Jesus as the son of David was the only mortal to receive God’s Spirit without measure, thus when Jesus is sent out and begins to perform miracles and signs and the people witness his glory calling him God’s only begotten Son, the people are declaring the fulfillment of when God promised David’s son, “Today have I begotten you”. This is even more obvious when you know that God said in the OT that He would not give His glory to another, speaking of a man who God had His Spirit rest upon. You say however t8, that the NT is revealing something new, instead of it fulfilling what was said by God prior so that our faith in God’s word could be built up. You say that Jesus is called the Son of God because he pre-existed as a non flesh son of God, you speak against the written word, changing who the Son of God is according to who God promised he would be.
God told David that He would make David’s son into His firstborn Son, so when we are told in the NT that Jesus is firstborn overall creation, one would obviously recognize that God has kept His word to David. You on the other hand say that this is NT scripture revealing something new, that the son of man actually pre-existed as another being, and was the firstborn one of a kind non flesh son of God. You continue to claim this even though OT prophecy tells us that the Messiah -the anointed, would COME from David’s seed and Abraham’s seed and Jesse’s seed, and when this Son of man is born being said he was of the genes of these men and given the name Jesus, you say that a new thing is declared to us that Jesus has come from a non flesh one of a kind son who emptied himself becoming a man. Even when the NT says this firstborn son overall creation is speaking of the man that shed his blood, you refuse to apply it to this man who was sitting at God’s right hand when these words were written by the apostle Paul, the man that when he was being called firstborn over all creation by Paul was literally sitting at God’s right hand having been given all dominion over the works of God’s hands BECAUSE he shed his blood. Even when the NT goes further to explain this firstborn son, saying he is firstborn of the dead, a new beginning, fulfilling God’s word spoken to David of God making his son into His own firstborn Son who would be an eternal king on David’s throne, you tell us the verse that was given after Jesus was raised from the dead, is not speaking of this Jesus raised from the dead, but that God was giving us a new revelation. It’s just pure foolishness, as you don’t apply what is given by God’s word that matches perfectly giving us the fulfillment of God’s word, instead you say it is a new revelation.
God told David that He would beget David’s son on a certain day. This you seem to just ignore completely. First you have David’s son, then you have God making him born of God. You instead say that God begat a non flesh son of God and then made him into a man.
God told Isaiah that He would anoint a man with His Spirit, specifically a man of the seed of Jesse. First you have the seed of Jesse, then you have God anoint him with His Spirit. You however say that the anointed already existed and then became a man. You declare new revelations that thus make God’s word into a lie.
God told David that He was going to make his son into an eternal king to sit on David’s throne for an eternity. A king is certainly known to be a master over his people. The NT reveals that Jesus the Son of Man, of the seed of David was MADE both a master and an anointed one. You say that this Son of Man is an anointed one because he pre-existed as a one of a kind non flesh master. You once again reverse that which is given. You change why it is Jesus is a master and said to be the anointed one. Instead of Jesus being a master on earth as a mortal because he received God’s Spirit and power in fullness, you say instead that he is a master and the anointed one according to a new revelation, of which being he pre-existed. Instead of Jesus being a master because he received for shedding his blood, dominion over all of creation, you say he is master because he existed prior in non human form as a master. t8, you take the clear image of Jesus that is shown to have fulfilled God’s word, and you ignore that word and create a false image of Jesus instead.
The NT reveals to us that God, before the world was made, promised us eternal life. David and Abraham saw the source of their salvation coming from their own seed. They died in having faith that God would fulfill such a promise from their seed. You on the other hand say that the NT reveals something new, that salvation comes not through their seed but through God’s one of a kind non flesh son, choosing to come to earth and be made flesh.
God promised in the OT Israel a savior a Son of Man from one of their own tribes. The NT tells us directly that Jesus is the one fulfilling this promise, “From this man’s descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised.” So when Jesus is born said to be of the genes coming from David’s descendants, the one to fulfill the promise of God, you instead of apply God’s word to God’s word, you declare that an angel is revealing a new revelation. Instead of the angel speaking of God’s promise, speaking to that which Acts tells us Jesus fulfilled of which matches perfectly, you say this Jesus that was born is not being called the savior through God’s promise but is the savior because of a new revelation, because he pre-existed.
You assert t8 a passage is a new revelation, when in fact it is shown according to God’s word that it absolutely is not. Instead of a passage showing that God’s word is true by Him fulfilling a promise, you instead say it is God revealing something new.By doing such you have created a very false image of Jesus the anointed.
I could give more examples like above but I will just stop here.
Yes we already know Jesus of Nazareth was a man, again no one doubts that. Muslim’s even believe that. But I take issue with the way you negate really clear scripture by ignoring it and applying other scriptures to counter them that are more favourable to your view. To me this is not an honest search for truth and to a person who loves truth this stands out.
I can read all the scriptures you give and in good conscience say I believe them all and I see no conflict at all. But you cannot in good conscience include these scriptures I quote without severely twisting them toward your own view. How about you directly talk about these, one scripture one post at a time. I am not a fan of inflated legal documental essays that try to hide the devil in the detail. Give us a simple answer like a child about each of these scriptures. One post pers scripture. Keep it simple. Show us clearly why you deny what these scriptures so clearly say:
Start with this one:
Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.Notice how close it is to this one:
John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.Deal with Hebrews 1:1-2 in a concise manner so we can focus on each point.
Hi Ed J,
YOU:What??? the tribe of Judah came from eternity to Bethlehem?
ME: What?? How on earth did you get that from what I said? …which was “The going forth of this man of the tribe of Judah was spoken from ancient of days, even by the eternal God before time on earth even existed.”
Ed J, is Micah NOT giving a prophecy, a promise from God of what will occur in the future?
Verse 2 is Micah giving us a prophecy which was a PROMISE God made that a ruler in Israel will come forth.
Does God just make things up as He goes and this is a promise God just now had invented and gave to Micah? Of course not, God is all knowing, He established this promise before the world even existed, before death, in a time of everlasting. Before Micah spoke it God gave this promise long before to David it was of old of ancient times, even long before David God gave it to Abraham. This is exactly why Micah says concerning his prophecy of a man that the coming forth of this ruler in Israel was of old, from everlasting.
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee SHALL he come forth unto me that is TO BE ruler in Israel; This is a PROPHECY a promise that had already been given long ago to other prophets, that had been planned by God before earth even existed, which is why Micah SAYS, whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Ed J, can you admit that Micah’s prophecy of a ruler in Israel that would come forth one day, was a plan of God before earth and man even existed?
If such is true, which has to be true as our God is all knowing, then it is absolutely true that the coming forth of a ruler in Israel had been established from of old, from of a time of everlasting.
You are saying Ed J that the passage says that the ruler that was to come is from of old, from everlasting. You say that this ruler that is to come already existed.
But what the verse says concerning a PROPHECY, a PROMISE of God, is that the ruler that was to come his COMING FORTH is from of old, from everlasting.
A prophet speaks of the coming Messiah a ruler in Israel, and his coming is from ancient of days, as it was spoken before and was established before by our eternal God, long before Micah, before death even existed, during a time of everlasting.
A virgin gave birth to a son named Jesus, this virgin birth was of old, it was an old promise that had been given long before it actually occurred to the prophet Isaiah, it was from everlasting, as even before Isaiah spoke the prophecy, it was with God, it had been with God in his plan during a time of everlasting before earth and death existed.
Jesus was anointed by the Holy Spirit, this anointing was from of old, from everlasting, as the anointing was promised long ago to Isaiah, and as God had planned such an anointing of a man in a time of everlastings, before earth and death existed.
The flesh of Jesus did not see corruption, such was of old from everlasting, as it was a promise given LONG AGO to David concerning his son and had been planned by God during a time of everlasting before earth and death existed.
Hi t8,
Does it matter to distinguish a scripture that is referring to an eternal non flesh son of God you believe in, from the scriptures that are referring to this same person but at the time where he had emptied himself and was a mortal?
Does it matter to distinguish a verse that is referencing a mortal Son of Man, verses the scriptures that are referencing the eternal Son of Man?
Does an understanding of a scripture change if one person says the scripture is speaking of a person in relation to a specific time in history, verses another person say that same verse is speaking of a different time in history? For example, does the understanding of a verse have a different meaning if a person says that a verse is speaking of the resurrected Jesus, verses a person saying it is speaking of a non flesh Son of God before the Son of Man born of a woman existed.
To All,
There is a HUGE Problem that occurs when a passage is to be understood that it is speaking specifically of a Son of Man who is the son of David, but is instead said to be speaking of a non flesh one of a kind Son of God.
Hebrews 1:1 Long ago God spoke to our ancestors in many and various ways by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom he also created the worlds.
There is a huge difference between God creating the world through his foreknowledge, His appointed purpose, the anointed Son of Man who, “Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:”, and saying that God created the world through having a non flesh one of a kind son create the world for Him.
Did God create the world according to scripture by His hands through His foreknowledge and ordained purpose in the Man that would shed his blood on the cross thus fulfilling God’s promise of eternal life that He had given to mankind before mankind was even created?
Are we not told that God THROUGH ONE MAN would bring righteousness and eternal life? Yes those are Paul’s words speaking God’s words, because God’s words were WITH Paul, and these same words that Paul spoke had been WITH God all along, they might have been new to Paul but they were certainly NOT knew to our all knowing God, who had these words before the world began, and performed all things according to these words.
Psalms 89: 11 The heavens are yours, the earth also is yours; the world and all that is in it—you have founded them. 12 The north and the south —you created them; Tabor and Hermon joyously praise your name. ….19 Then you spoke in a vision to your faithful one, and said: “I have set the crown on one who is mighty, I have exalted one chosen from the people. 20 I have found my servant David; with my holy oil I have anointed him; 21 my hand shall always remain with him; my arm also shall strengthen him. 22 The enemy shall not outwit him, the wicked shall not humble him. 23 I will crush his foes before him and strike down those who hate him. 24 My faithfulness and steadfast love shall be with him; and in my name his horn shall be exalted. 25 I will set his hand on the sea and his right hand on the rivers. 26 He shall cry to me, “You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation!‘ 27 I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth. 28 Forever I will keep my steadfast love for him, and my covenant with him will stand firm.
Scripture never says that God through a non flesh one of a kind son, He made the world, and then He sent that son down to earth to become a mortal man. Scripture says that God himself created the world, and that he exalted a man that He chose from the people, who He would make into His firstborn and God would keep His steadfast love for him and that God’s covenant with him will stand firm.
When you CHANGE WHO it is a passage is speaking of a Son of Man of the seed of David, to a non flesh one of a kind son of God, you end up with a completely DIFFERENT message.
Did God create the world by His own hands through His knowledge of the Son of Man, of the seed of David that would be raised from the dead and sit at God’s right hand being given dominion over all the works of God’s hands BECAUSE he died on the cross for our sins?
or Did God create the world through a non flesh one of a kind son, who became a Son of Man?
Psalms 8: 1 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens. 2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. 3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: 7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; 8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. 9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
When God made the sheep and oxen and beasts He did so by his own fingers, and He did it through the Son of Man that He was going to VISIT, place His Spirit upon, bring him forth to die on the cross for our sins, and then for doing so God gives him dominion over all the works of His fingers, which includes the sheep and oxen!!
Proverbs 3:18 She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her; those who hold her fast are called happy. 19 The Lord by wisdom founded the earth; by understanding he established the heavens; 20 by his knowledge the deeps broke open, and the clouds drop down the dew. 21 My child, do not let these escape from your sight: keep sound wisdom and prudence, 22 and they will be life for your soul and adornment for your neck. 23 Then you will walk on your way securely and your foot will not stumble.
God founded the earth upon His Wisdom, in that wisdom was His ordained purpose which contained His foreknowledge of the Son of Man who He would visit and place His Spirit of Wisdom upon, where with that Spirit he is able to fulfill God’s purpose, which is for God to perfect him, become the source of eternal life, then have him sit at His right hand as His firstborn Son, giving him the inheritance of a firstborn Son, appointing him to have dominion over all of creation, fulling God’s promise to David that his seed according to the flesh would be an eternal king over David’s throne.
When a passage says it is speaking of the Christ, or the Son of God, it is speaking of the seed of Abraham who God promised the Christ would COME FROM, it is speaking of the Son of David who God said He would make into His own Son, and into His firstborn Son. It is NOT speaking of a NON flesh one of a kind son of god, at a time before the Son of David walked on the earth.
Hi t8,
YOU:
John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been madeME: John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 6: 27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for FOOD that endures to eternal life, which the Son of MAN will give you.
The HIM in verse 3 and 4, you say is speaking of a non flesh son of God.
I say it is speaking of the Christ according to the seed of Abraham, and the Son of God according to the seed of David, the Son of Man that is said to bring us eternal life, the Son of Man who we are told we are to believe in order to receive eternal life. Through this Son of Man did God make the world by His Hands, as God made all things through His Wisdom, His foreknowledge and by His determined purpose, which consisted OF the root and offspring of David sitting at God’s right hand being given dominion over all the works of God’s hands BECAUSE God had perfected this man by His Spirit bringing him to obedience dying on the cross for our sins. God created all things through and for the Christ, the perfected man, where our unity of faith is believing that he is the Son of God as a perfect man according to the fullness and measure of an anointing of God’s Spirit.
God would not have made the earth by His Hands if He did not have a plan for redemption. He made it through and for the seed of David that brought us our redemption dying on the cross. As we are DIRECTLY TOLD t8, God established the NEW BEGINNING before the earth was made. That New Beginning is the firstborn of the dead, the Son of Man, the first of many brethren, for God had exalted one chosen from among the people to be a savior and be given dominion over God’s creation. Such makes this Son of Man who is our source of eternal life, before all things, as in him is the supremacy, and in whom all things consist.
Jodi……I tell you they just don’t get it. Your words are good for us, but just fly’s over their heads.
Sorrow and vexsation of Spirit. But at least they can’t say they haven’t been wittnessed to.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
T8…..That is your problem, it’s still a “mystery” to you, even with all things the new testement brings out. GOD created everything “alone” and by “himself”. That alines with the new and the old testement. What you call “mystery” doesn’t line up, and according to Paul if it dosen’t we shouldn’t buy it.
Go and really study what Jodi is telling you, for a change, who knows God might open your mind.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi Ed J,
You are saying Ed J that the passage says that the ruler that was to come is from of old, from everlasting. You say that this ruler that is to come already existed.
Hi Jodi
You don’t seem to understand my question.
You’re all over the place, as usual. Please
answer my question, the one I asked.Who is the “HE” referring to in Micah 5:2? (<–please answer)
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel;
whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.Please quit trying to jump the gun answering different questions.
Now when you answer that, I have more follow-up questions.____________
God bless
Ed JJodi,
I don’t study what you write, so please stick to asking each other questions.
And avoid the long winded speeches. I don’t bother reading long posts.
Any point you want to make gets lost in your convoluted ideas._____________
God bless
Ed JHi Ed J,
YOU: Who is the “HE” referring to in Micah 5:2? (<–please answer)
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel;
whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.ME: He that comes forth to be a ruler in Israel is Jesus the Son of Man of the seed of David who God raised from the dead and made him into His firstborn Son as God promised David. As also promised to David concerning his son, he would become an eternal ruler over David’s throne.
..yet out of Judah shall the son of David come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel.
the going forth of the son of David has been from old, as Micah knew it had been a promise God gave to David, and that as Micah knew that the eternal God is all knowing, Micah knew that God had planned the coming forth of this Son of Man in the days of everlasting before earth and the death of man even existed.
Hi Ed J,
You say my posts contain convoluted ideas. GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE?
I will give you scriptures, and then I will give a paragraph or two that combines them. Then I’d like you to tell me what you think is convoluted.
Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.
Acts 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: ...30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
2 Samuel 7: 12 When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Acts 13:23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Hebrews 9:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Psalms 89: 11 The heavens are yours, the earth also is yours; the world and all that is in it—you have founded them. 12 The north and the south —you created them; Tabor and Hermon joyously praise your name. ….19 Then you spoke in a vision to your faithful one, and said: “I have set the crown on one who is mighty, I have exalted one chosen from the people. 20 I have found my servant David; with my holy oil I have anointed him; 21 my hand shall always remain with him; my arm also shall strengthen him. 22 The enemy shall not outwit him, the wicked shall not humble him. 23 I will crush his foes before him and strike down those who hate him. 24 My faithfulness and steadfast love shall be with him; and in my name his horn shall be exalted. 25 I will set his hand on the sea and his right hand on the rivers. 26 He shall cry to me, “You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my salvation!‘ 27 I will make him the firstborn, the highest of the kings of the earth. 28 Forever I will keep my steadfast love for him, and my covenant with him will stand firm.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Colossians 1:8 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many…19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
God declared the end before the beginning, that end was the end of sin in man, which God knew that sin would come shortly after He created the beginning of earth and man with His own Hands. The end that God established that was an end to sin, was also thus a new beginning of eternal righteousness in man, the entire reason why God made earth in the first place, to bring man into righteousness and eternal life. Jesus the resurrected son of David whose flesh did not see corruption but instead eternal life, as promised to David, was that new beginning as he was the firstborn of the dead of many brethren, the firstborn Son that God had promised to David. This Son of Man, the son of David who is called a Son of God according to God’s Holy Spirit, shed his blood becoming the author of eternal salvation, and thus is a savior to Israel and also to all nations of people. Because this son of David was raised from the dead as promised to David, made an eternal king over David’s throne as was promised to David, he is exactly what Paul said, “MADE of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of Holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:” If there was any doubt that Jesus as the son of David performing signs and miracles unto the people was not the Son of God according to the Spirit and according to God’s promise to David that He would make his son into His own son, and as well into His firstborn Son, his resurrection from the dead that people witnessed, should leave no doubt. For Jesus did DIE, and He was raised from the dead, and how are the dead raised, “42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:”
Upon Jesus rising from the dead he received glory, this glory was in the beginning with God, it was from God’s foreknowledge and determined purpose of God, it was what He created the world through and for, an eternal righteous man, a firstborn of many brethren, who had been made perfect according to an anointing of God’s Spirit.
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