The Ordinary Jesus Brigade

This topic contains 1,626 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  Anthony 28 minutes ago.

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  • #835800
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    The approval of a Gnostic adds little validity to your parroted teachings.

    A divine son of man? Contradictions abound.

    For us there is one God.

     

     

    #835802
     Anthony 
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    Hi Jodii It seems obvious from these scriptures that when Jesus spoke of Himself as being the Son of Man, He had Daniel 7 in mind.In addition, some first century Jews identified the Son of Man as also the Christ or Messiah.Jesus had just spoken of His death by crucifixion as being ‘lifted up.’ The crowd responded, ‘We have heard from the Law that the Christ will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up?’ Who is this ‘Son of Man?’’Jesus also believed the Son of Man, the Son of God, and the Messiah (Christ) were the same person. Not only did He claim to be all three separately, but in an interesting passage He responds in the affirmative to the Jewish leadership’s linking both Son of God and Christ, then adds Son of Man:

    The high priest said to him, ‘I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.’ ‘Yes, it is as you say,’ Jesus replied. ‘But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.’ Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, ‘He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?’ ‘He is worthy of death,’ they answered.(Matthew 26:63-66) Jodi it seems appropriate that Jesus Christ new that He was the Divine Son of Daniel He quotes the same phrase. God bless

    #835803
     Anthony 
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    Jodi

    The Divine Son of God….  Not Daniel lol .  God bless

    #835804
     Anthony 
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    Hi Nick ivI’ already showed you that it’s you three that belive like the Gnostic. Google early church Gnostic/ Adoptionists . They believe just like you , that Jesus Christ is just a man. God bless.

    #835805
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Anthony,

     

    You: My hang up with you TC is you don’t believe that Jesus Christ and Us don’t have to die body ,soul and spirit. We sin in all three therefore Jesus Christ would have to for the sins of the whole world. The wages of sin is death. There wouldn’t be Atonement for anyone. God bless TC.

    Me: But I do.

    Heb 9:13 or if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

    Me: You need to separate the man from God inside of Christ.

    God does not die. The Word is God (John 1:1). The Word became one with the man Jesus Christ. The Word as God was inside of Christ (2 Cor 5:19). The Word is the expression of God and is God. The Word did not grow in spirit, but the mind of the man Christ grew in its bond with the Word.

    2 Cor 5:19 To wit, that God (through the Word) was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

    Me: God does not change and God does not die. But someone had to die to void the first contract (old covenant) to establish the new covenant. And it wasn’t God (his Word). It was the Lamb of God. Because of the first Adam, all descendants of him were dead in their spirit mind. Man has one human mind, that of the flesh. But those born of the spirit now, still have one human mind that can follow the spirit or follow the flesh—follow one or the other.

    Christ also had one human mind. But he could follow the spirit with no hindrance from his flesh; he did not have sin in it. He had the spirit of God as his only spirit (Eph 4:4). His human mind was bonded with the mind of the Word (image of the mind of God) in him as one in total agreement with the mind of God.

    Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

    Me: Christ became the savior by his complete bond to the Word.  The man Christ died in the same way we do. The Word and holy spirit (his life force) left him. His body together with his inner self or soul (human self) went to the grave. The Word in him resurrected him form the grave (John 2:19-22).

    Acts 2:31 (bible Hub) Having foreseen he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ that neither was he abandon into hades nor the flesh of him saw decay.

    When disciples die, Christ resurrects them from the dead.

    John 5:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

    Rom 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. 18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

    Our bodies are but a reflection of the glory that will be in us.

    #835807
     t8 
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    Hi TC,
    Yes you agree with their foolish understanding.
    Come out of her lest you suffer for her sins.

    Calling people to come out of her is justified, but calling them out of the pan and into the fire, well that isn’t.

    Calling people out of false religion is done by showing them true religion. Just calling people out will not solve anything.

    We need to know what true religion is, then call people out of false religion and toward the truth.

    #835808
     t8 
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    Jodi, your last 4 or 5 posts pointed at me do not answer the question and solve the issue you guys have.

    You can read all that scripture and it is true of course, but you also need to read other scriptures which are also true.

    8 And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. 9 An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. 10 But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. 11 Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. 12 This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.”

    13 Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying,

    14 “Glory to God in the highest heaven,
    and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”

    Clearly, you guys do not believe that he was born the messiah and the lord. Jesus is the lord and he is the messiah. Any spirit that confesses this at anytime is of the Antichrist spirit. It opposes the truth about who Jesus is. Further, this spirit preaches through some here that Jesus is nothing but the flesh, thus Jesus is not the Christ. What they teach is Jesus Christ is the Christ because Jesus is the flesh only. This doctrine subtly denies that Jesus is the Christ. Surely you can see that?

    #835809
     Anthony 
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    Hi TC

    No TC      I see it that the Spirit of God goes back to the Father and the the body , spirit and soul of a man go back to the grave, till the resurrection. No more no less. Jesus was dead three days. God bless

     

     

    #835810
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Anthony,

    Went have gone over this before.  So no need to go over it again.  I have shown you my position, that the saints resurrect spiritually at their spiritual deaths and after Pentecost and never die thereafter.  They receive new bodies at the coming back of Christ.

    #835811
     t8 
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    and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

    Obviously, the resurrection was a game changer as far as death goes.

    We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So we aspire to please Him, whether we are here in this body or away from it.…

    Yep, it was a game changer alright.

    And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?”…

    Indeed it was.

    #835813
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    Acts 14.11

    And when the multitudes saw what Paul had done, they raised their voice, saying in the lycaonian  language

    ’The gods have become like men and have come down to us’

     

    Nothing has changed.

    Ignorant carnal men cannot know God and His works.

    They relate heavenly events according to their evil pagan understandings.

    #835814
     GeneBalthrop 
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    • Total replies 16,607

    Nick…….AMEN, brother, nothing changes,  those who understand  who Jesus really is, know he was a man, exactly as Moses prophesied,   not a prexisting God or demagod or being of any kind.  They understand Jesus was exactly like us in every way,  that he was taken from mankind and anointed by God with the holy spirit at the Jordan river and the spirit sent him into the wilderness to be tempted, and after that he was sent out into the world to preach the gospel of the kingdom of God.

    These people who preach their false doctrines  OF “SEPERATION”,  are doing EXACTLY what Satan wants, CHANGING  the “IMAGE” of Jesus, to  2Ths 2,  someone completely different then he is.

    Jesus was sure right when he said they would come in his name saying he is,  and decieve ‘MANY”.  But we know him as a son of man, and when he come he will still be a son of man, who came from the roots and offspring of King David, and is a Son of God, just as all are who have the Spirit of God the Father abiding in them.

    Not only do we understand that,  but so does Jodi. We are waiting  for our brother the king to return and serve in his kingdom with him forever.

    Peace and love to you and your………gene

    #835815
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    The natural sons of Adam never had the Spirit of God.

    They are of the breath of God and at death that breath returns to Him.

    Only those chosen and reborn of water and the Spirit can walk in the Spirit as sons of God.

    #835816
     Jodi 
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    • Topics started 10
    • Total replies 1,545

    Hi Anthony,

    I believe in ALL scripture.

    Daniel was a prophet and spoke of a vision,

    In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.(Daniel 7:13-14)

    Anthony was DANIEL the ONLY prophet to SEE the Son of MAN, did God not give knowledge of him throughout the ancient of days where they saw their savior?

    The Christ certainly approached Abraham and David as well in visions, long before Daniel, they saw the Son of Man that would be given all authority, and this man would be of their seed.

    Ephesians 1: 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

    Ephesians 3: 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

    10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. 13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

    A pre-existing son did not create heaven and earth, God created all things through Jesus the Christ. There is NO CHRIST that pre-existed, CHRIST means anointed, and Jesus is the human born of a woman who BECAME the perfect HUMAN. CHRIST was promised to COME one day of Abraham’s SEED. ALL things were made through and for this SEED of Abraham. We are even told that God would take David’s son and make him His firstborn. 

    Anthony, God made the world by His knowledge of JESUS CHRIST, we are specifically told the name JESUS, this was the NAME given to the MAN born of a woman, and that name is given because this man would save HIS OWN PEOPLE from their sins.

    Matthew 1:21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, BECAUSE he will save HIS PEOPLE from their sins.

    Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

    There is ONE TRUE DOCTRINE of CHRIST, and that doctrine is that JESUS is a PERFECT man, KNOWLEDGE EXIST in KNOWING that this MAN is the Son of God, any other doctrine is DECEIT.

    God made the world through and for Jesus the Christ, the man that SAVED HIS PEOPLE from their sins. I believe EXACTLY what we are told. The Christ is Abraham’s SEED having been ANOINTED with God’s Spirit, as that is what CHRIST means, CHRISTOS anointed. Jesus even speaks of his own anointing and being SENT out into the world reading prophecy about himself.

    Jesus had appeared to Isaiah in many visions, in ancient days God made Jesus the Son of Man appear and Isaiah wrote about him, in none of his writings did he pre-exist. We are told directly by Isaiah that God tells us of His anointed one and His plan ahead of time, God declares it before it springs forth. We are told that God would not give His glory to another, and this glory was to occur in the future. 

    Anthony, we are told that Jesus sits at God’s right hand BECAUSE he had followed God’s will and died for us. What is so important to understand about this is that Jesus was a weak mortal human in the flesh just like us, that he had a human will, and he was able to OVERCOME that weakness and go to the cross because God was with Him. This is WHY he was made firstborn over a new creation, one of eternal life, FIRST place among many brethren.

    TWO HUGE POINTS Anthony,

    #1. We are saved because of God’s work in a human being making a MAN perfect.

    #2 Jesus sits at God’s right hand today, and is firstborn among many brethren having authority over all of creation BECAUSE he went to the cross for us denying the will of man and overcoming. 

    Anthony, your sins being wiped clean has absolutely nothing to do with a pre-existing being, the Son that was sent out into the world is the Son of prophecy, the Son of Man, David’s son that prophecy said God would MAKE into His own son and God would make him into a firstborn son. Your master Anthony, has nothing to do with him pre-existing, but because he was a man who overcame what all mankind struggles with, following our own wills and denying faith in God.

     

     

     

     

     

    #835817
     t8 
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    The real Jesus is in the bible.

    The real Jesus was born as the messiah and lord.

    There are other people called Jesus.

    #835818
     NickHassan 
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    Hi,

    Jesus of Nazareth was made both Lord and Christ.

    Acts 2.36

    #835819
     Jodi 
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    Hi t8,

    You:

    and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

    Obviously, the resurrection was a game changer as far as death goes.

    We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So we aspire to please Him, whether we are here in this body or away from it.…

    Yep, it was a game changer alright.

    And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?”…

    ME: You wonder why t8 it said many of the BODIES of the saint were raised from the grave, BUT it DOES NOT say ALL were raised? WHY not ALL the bodies of the saints were raised?

    Also t8 did you catch that, it said the bodies from the graves, not spirits, but bodies were resurrected.

    Also t8 this does not say they were raised to eternal life.

    What are we told by Paul,

    Hebrews 11:39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, 40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

    1 Thess 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    1 Corinthians 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 

    2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 

    6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

    t8 Paul is taking about being at home in the mortal body that he was burdened in, that he groaned in, as he speaks in this very chapter as well as extensively in Romans 7  that he being mortal serves the law of sin and death, and his DESIRE was to be ABSENT from a BODY of MORTALITY, and to be clothed with an incorruptible BODY. Paul never speaks of having hope in having NO BODY at all, but being clothed with an immortal incorruptible body that is free from sin.

    7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    JUDGEMENT t8 occurs when you wake from being DEAD. As wise king Solomon told us, that the dead know nothing, and the dead will continue to know nothing as they sleep the sleep of death until they WAKE rising from being DEAD into either the resurrection of life, or the resurrection into judgment. Those in the first resurrection cannot be hurt by the second death. Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 

    #835824
     Ed J 
    Participant
    • Topics started 155
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    Gene:

    You: TC…

    Me: John 20:17 in conjunction with the three verses above mean that God become our father after we receive the baptism of the holy spirit and become God’s adopted sons. The apostles did not have the holy spirit in them until John 20:22 and the holy spirit with Christ in it until after Christ had ascended into heaven. The same is true for the Lord’s Prayer. They could not be the sons of God until then, neither God be their father until then.

    Hi Truthcomber,

    Good job!

    #835825
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive to God, (Lk 20 37-8) but dead to you.

    Our wonderful God is the God of the living , not the dead.

    Are you not yet alive to God?

    #835826
     NickHassan 
    Participant
    • Topics started 284
    • Total replies 70,979

    Hi Ed,

    Ot is not those who are blessed with the Spirit who are the sons of God

    but those who are led by the Spirit.

    Rom 8.14

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