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Gene:
You: WHAT ABOUT THIS SCRIPTURE , “the son of man can do “NOTHING” of himself, the Father who is in him “HE” doth the works.”.
John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Me: The Jews that sought to kill the Messiah understand more than you do. They understood that the Messiah said he is one and equal with his father. They are one person. The Word is the direct and exact expression of his Father. The son raises the dead and judges them. God is spirit. The Messiah is his exact image and the Word in him is spirit. The temple of that spirit is the body of Christ with his human mind and heart in it. God didn’t change. His temple did, not in form but with the Messiah’s heart and mind in it. We are of that temple or the lively building blocks of it, Christ being the chief corner stone. The Word (God) in that temple raised up that temple from the dead (John 5:21, John 2:19-22).
Nick,
I said the ones who killed Christ knew that the messiah claimed he was the son of God and thus God. I did not say I align myself with all their thinking. They knew what Christ said, something that you and Gene do not understand.
Gene:
You:
Face it TC your whole work is to “SEPERATING” JESUS FROM HIS BROTHERS AND SISTERS. YOU PUSH THE FATHER ASIDE As you advance Jesus ahead. Go read 2ths2, and see if you are not doing the same thing with JESUS’ “IMAGE”.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM IDENIFYING JESUS AS THE HEAD OF THE HOUSE HOLD “OF” GOD , but you say relate Jesus as GOD, BY quoting scriptures where Jesus said he was in God and God was in him, that true, but you fail to say we also are in the father and in the son and they are in us. You leave t h at pRt out of your understanding, why because it make us and Jesus all in God the same way and God in us just as he is also Jesus.
You also treat the word messiah, as if that some how seperate Jesus’ from us. Tell me this was Moses not a messiah also? , was he not a fellow human being? There were many messiahs. Or anointed ones of God throughout all human history.
The word messiah simply means a human being anointed with the HOLY SPIRIT which Jesus as well as Moses was, and all who have the spirit of the living God in that are also anointed ones. But you use that word messiah to “SEPERATE” JESUS from his brothers and sisters.
You are indeed a worker of “SEPERATION” rather you see it or not.
Did not Jesus even say that all who believe in him would do greater works the he did, because he was going to the Father.
You even try to change context by infasizing wrong parts of sentences or go to different trinitarian understandings from their sites to try to blend text to meet your renditions of “SEPERATION” , IMO.
By the way I do not worship Jesus as a God , I worship the same God he worships. I bow to Jesus to the “GLORY OF GOD” that is why I bow to him.Me: Like you, this is a psychotic and lot of bull.
https://www.gotquestions.org/what-does-Messiah-mean.html
Question: “What does Messiah mean?”
Answer: Messiah comes from the Hebrew word mashiach and means “anointed one” or “chosen one.” The Greek equivalent is the word Christos or, in English, Christ. The name “Jesus Christ” is the same as “Jesus the Messiah.” In biblical times, anointing someone with oil was a sign that God was consecrating or setting apart that person for a particular role. Thus, an “anointed one” was someone with a special, God-ordained purpose.
In the Old Testament, people were anointed for the positions of prophet, priest, and king. God told Elijah to anoint Elisha to succeed him as Israel’s prophet (1 Kings 19:16). Aaron was anointed as the first high priest of Israel (Leviticus 8:12). Samuel anointed both Saul and David as kings of Israel (1 Samuel 10:1; 16:13). All of these men held “anointed” positions. But the Old Testament predicted a coming Deliverer, chosen by God to redeem Israel (Isaiah 42:1; 61:1–3). This Deliverer the Jews called the Messiah.
TC……messiah simply means and anointed one, MOSES said the Lord would raise up from among their “breathern” a phophet “like him”, and told then to listen to. The word messiah does not make that person into some other kind of being from the rest of human kind, but just an anointed “human” being. Messiah doe not make that person any different then the rest of his brothers and sister in their human make up. You again are trying desperately to make Jesus appear different then his brothers and sisters, while at the same time discrediting GOD POWER “IN” MAN, THE MAN JESUS CHRIST. We see God “IN” Jesus doing his work, you present Jesus as himself being GOD’S WORD, We see Jesus as a man who the word of God came to be in, by the Anointing he recieved at the Jordan river . Your Jesus a lines with trinitarian teachings and you use their Reasonings to justify your positions. If you know the real Jesus you would not need to go to them to get your teachings. We do not SEPERATE JESUS FROM OUR HUMAN IDENITY WITH HIM , YOU ON THE OTH ER HAND DO. You spin you time making Him different then we are, you are doing the work of SEPERATION, exactly what Satan wants. You can not see yourself as being “in’ him and he “in” you by the same anointing Spirit of our Father.
It’s your choice to move him away from you likeness not us. So continue to make him different from his brothers and sisters. Making God the Father his father only, but not ours too .
You are preaching a different Jesus, exactly as Jesus said would come about. For “Many” will come in my name saying I am, and shall decieve “MANY”, and again, “wide is the way that leads to destruction and many there be that go in threat there of., but narrow is the gate and straight is the way that leads to life, and “FEW” there be that find it.”.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
Gene,
What are you talking about? I just showed you Messiah means anointed one. But Jesus means salvation.
Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. The Word is God (John 1:1) and was in Christ. The Word became one with Christ (John 1:14). Trinitarians believe that God was made incarnate through Christ. I do not believe this. There is a lot of differences between me and them. There is a lot of differences between what you believe and scripture. To say that John the Baptist was born with the spirit of God but not Christ is unbiblical. To say that we retain our bodies of flesh and bone is absurd. To say that Christ is flesh and bone and not spirit is insane. To say that he becomes like us and not us like him is untrue. You make Christ, the son of a God a travesty. You do not know him.
Gene,
You believe what you want. Don’t try to make me like you. I wish not to discuss this matter any more. Take it or leave it.
Nick:
A lot of what the trinitarians teach I do not believe, especially there core doctrines like three persons in one God yet one person. A lot of your foolish doctrine I do not believe either. These one liners do not do it.
Hi TC,
What miracles did Jesus do by his own power?
Know that it is his anointing from above that enabled all his words and works.
Flesh contributes nothing.
TC…..I believe I WILL LEAVE IT, TC, please tell us “one” mircale Jesus ever did himself, infact show us one mircale God did through him before he was anointed at the Jordan river. We know of where we speak, you on the other hand go to trinitarian teachings websites to back up your dogmas. We rely on the spirit of truth to teach us, the spirit we have recieved from our heavenly father, and that is where our understandings come from, we have no need for anyone to teach us, for the spirit itself teaches us to reconize the truth in “all” things. We have no need of GNOSTIC PLATOIAN INFLUENCED TEACHERS.
You teaching is a teaching of “SEPERATION”, and is not of God nor Jesus, our lord (adoni a fellow human ruler) who God the Father took from humanity and perfected him and elevated him to his present position, who we bow our knee to , unto the GLORY OF GOD.
You would have better luck pedeling your trinitarian drived teachings to other Platoian influenced teachers like the ones you use to try to teach us with. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours ………gene
Hi All
“In my vision, there before me was one like a Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven.” Daniel 7:1
So what did Jesus mean when He called Himself the Son of Man?
To find the answer, let us go back to the Old Testament and look at what the prophet Daniel said.
In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.(Daniel 7:13-14)
Daniel speaks of the ‘son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven.
For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. (John 5:27)
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. (Matthew 24:30)
So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time. But in those days, following that distress, ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens. (Mark 13:24-27)
At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. (Luke 21:27) It seems obvious from these scriptures that when Jesus spoke of Himself as being the Son of Man, He had Daniel 7 in mind.
The high priest said to him, ‘I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.’ ‘Yes, it is as you say,’ Jesus replied. ‘But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.’ Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, ‘He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. What do you think?’ ‘He is worthy of death,’ they answered.(Matthew 26:63-66
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. (John 3:13)
What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!(John 6:62)
Jesus’ favourite term to refer to Himself was ‘Son of Man.’ He understood the designation to refer to the divine Son of Man of Daniel 7 who would rule with glory and power. Moreover, He understood the Son of Man also to be the pre-existent Son of God and Messiah. Who did Jesus think He was? Clearly He thought He was the divine Son of Man
God bless
Hi Gene, Jodi and Nick
Do you believe in these scriptures?
John 7:38-39
38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From [a]his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’” 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
If you don’t believe in them scriptures, there no Spirit flowing out of you, apparently your hearing from the wrong spirit. Think about it. All you have to do is renounce your false teaching ask God to forgive you, “and believes in Me(Jesus Christ), as the Scripture said, . God bless
Anthony……we do believe Jesus is a son of man, we have no problem with that, he came into his existence as a man so why not believe he is a man. This is the way we see it, “unto us there is “ONE” GOD, AND “ONE” MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN, THE “MAN” JESUS THE CHRIST” we also believe “GOD WAS RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO “HIMSELF” IN AND “THROUGH” THE “MAN” JESUS BY HIS ANOINTING SPIRIT “IN” JESUS.
We don’t have to try to make Jesus into something other then a real son of man who God by his spirit dwelt in. We understand JESUS THE SON OF MAN (like us) could do “NOTHING” BY HIMSELF, the FATHER who was “IN” HIM DID THE WORKS.
We also understand that, “if the spirit of him (God) who raised Christ Jesus from the dead, dwell in us, he (God) will “also” quicken (bring to life) our mortal (dead) bodies.
Now do you understand, that to us would be the better question? WE DO NOT “SEPERATE” OURSELVES FROM THE LIKENESS OF JESUS CHRIST OUR lord (adoni, a human or son of man ruler) whom GOD our Father placed over us, again, question is do you?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Anthony,
I agree whole heartily with your last couple of posts. You seem to understand scripture. I may not agree with all you say elsewhere, but your recent posts are enlightening to me. The part of Dan 7:14 ” He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him” shed some new light. Although the KJV has “serve him” the definition here includes “to pay reverence to” which is the same as “worship”.
Hi Gene
So you believe these scriptures?
Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.’ ‘Yes, it is as you say,’ Jesus replied. ‘But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.’ Christ= Messiah, the Son of God = the Only Begotten Son, the Son of Man = The Divine Son of Man.
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. (John 3:13)
What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!(John 6:62)
He understood the designation to refer to the divine Son of Man of Daniel 7 who would rule with glory and power.He understood the Son of Man also to be the pre-existent Son of God and Messiah.
So you really do? Or are you again trying to twist the Word of God again? And teaching falsely again. You saw the truth and deny to believe it. God bless.
Hi Anthony,
YOU:
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. (John 3:13)
What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!(John 6:62)
Jesus’ favourite term to refer to Himself was ‘Son of Man.’ He understood the designation to refer to the divine Son of Man of Daniel 7 who would rule with glory and power. Moreover, He understood the Son of Man also to be the pre-existent Son of God and Messiah. Who did Jesus think He was? Clearly He thought He was the divine Son of Man
ME: Anthony show me scripture where Jesus understood himself to be some pre-existing being? He understood himself as a person fulfilling prophecy, as the SEED of David and Abraham who would come and be made into the author of eternal salvation.
The reason why Jesus sits at God’s right hand is BECAUSE he was a HUMAN that was made perfect and died for our sins. The reason why he is firstborn over all creation is because he was the human that was made perfect. Jesus is a Son of God we are told directly according to the Spirit of Holiness, a seed of David that was given God’s Spirit without measure.
No other human was born of God’s Spirit without measure, no other human God elected from among the brethren to be a light to the Jews and the Gentiles where God called him into righteousness to fulfill His will which existed before time began.
Hi Jodi I said Daniel did, and you don’t.
He understood the designation to refer to the divine Son of Man of Daniel 7 who would rule with glory and power. “He” Daniel do you believe that scriptures?
God bless
Hi TC
My hang up with you TC is you don’t believe that Jesus Christ and Us don’t have to die body ,soul and spirit. We sin in all three therefore Jesus Christ would have to for the sins of the whole world. The wages of sin is death. There wouldn’t be Atonement for anyone. God bless TC.
Hi TC
Here’s a piece from Ernest Martin on the Atonement.
Did Christ really die? That is, did all of Him die or was it only part of Him that died? This is an important point for us to consider and understand. A vast number of preachers and theologians accept that only part of Christ actually died at the time of His crucifixion while the rest of His personality continued to live without interruption and in a complete conscious and active state. In a word, they are saying that the real Christ did not actually die on the tree of crucifixion.
Let me make this point plain. If Christ did not in fact die (or did not die completely) then His Atonement becomes thoroughly ineffective. This means that you and I, and all Christians, do not have a savior (1 Corinthians 15:12–17). We had better be assured in our minds that Christ did die and that all His person died, or the teaching of Christianity about the efficacy of Christ’s Atonement is destroyed.
Note this point. There can be no forgiveness of sins unless someone pays for those sins through the act of death. The Book of Hebrews puts it this way.
“And for this cause he [Christ] is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal[eonian] inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator [a contract victim in the Old Testament was an animal sacrifice and in the New Testament it was Christ]. For a testament is of force after men are dead; otherwise it is no strength at all while the testator lives”
Hebrews 9:15–17
What we need to determine is whether Christ did in fact die, or did He continue to live without really dying? Of course, the Scriptures tell us time and again that Christ did die, but preachers and theologians are prone to accept this teaching as referring to the death of His body—not that His soul or His spirit died. But the Book of Hebrews makes it clear that if a testator does not die [the author is referring to Christ] then there can be no“redemption of the transgressions.” And without all of our transgressions being forgiven by the death of Christ in our place, then we are all still in our sins, as are all other humans from the time of Adam until now. This would make the whole meaning of Christ’s Atonement to be disallowed and of no value in saving us from our sins. The truth is Christ Jesus did in fact DIE, just like you and I will die. He did not possess some kind of “immortal soul” in the Platonic fashion of explanation. Christ did not go to heaven immediately at His death, like so many people imagine Him doing today. He was dead in His grave for three days—thoroughly dead and totally unconscious.
God bless
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