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Gene:
Me:
2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Me: Got that, the Lord is spirit which can be expressed as a glorious light like the sun in heaven.
You: All who try to seperate Jesus from themselves will get what they want in the end IMO , I believe he will say to those who make him different then themselves, depart from me you workers of iniquity I know you not, from whence you are? Not seening Jesus as a fellow human being a son of man, as well as a son of God, is dangerous ground in my opinion. His sacrifice is not really that of a perfected human being , but a “morphed” creature of somekind, from some other place then the rest of us come from, he then could not qualify to take away any sin, much less the sins of the world, if that were the case.
Me: You judge yourself. We strive to become like him, not him like us. He says follow me.
You: But go ahead and tell us how we are not the son of God, but he is. I have shown where Jesus disagrees with what you are saying now show us where he ever said we were not the sons of God nor just like him?
Me: Again you misrepresent me. I have never said that, to the contrary. We become the adopted sons of God through Christ’s death and resurrection in this life and fully when we receive our new bodies. We become the sons of God when we are baptized with the holy spirit.
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Me: Christ is the only begotten son of God. We become sons of God through the baptism of the holy spirit. Christ was called the son of God at birth. Christ is the Son (son of God) of man. He is a spirit that expresses himself as a the bright morning star.You: How could he command us to overcome “even as I have” seening he was completely different then we are? The Jesus christ you preach is not the Jesus Christ of the bible IMO. But then JESUS did say that “MANY” would come in his name saying he was ? And decieve MANY.
Me: The many that deceive the many includes the few that will deceive the few. Look in the mirrow.
Phil 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Me: I guess you don’t want to bow down to the son of God. This is called lawlessness. We will see.
Gene:
So why does Christ worship God if he is God. There is one God, himself and himself expressed. It is analogous to we having a conscious and subconscious mind. The conscious mind is inferior to the conscious but both work together as one. The humanity of the seed of David is bonded with the church as one body. Thus as a human unit they worship the Father.
Psalm 22:22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.
Tc…..Your the one presenting Jesus as a God, not me, and where it says ” I will declare your name unto my brethern ” that clearly shows he is Identifying himself with us as a human being, not some kind of “morphed” preexisting person of some kind. You and all trenitarians preach a preexisting Jesus, not Me. You turn to them to get your understandings not me.
Tell us…..do you believe Jesus prexisted as a centinel being , before his berth on this earth?
Do you believe Jesus is the root and offspring of KING DAVID?
Do you believe JESUS said that people before pentocost were childern of GOD THE FATHER?
DO you believe Jesus called himself “son of man” over 60 times in scriptures.
Do you actually think the apostles saw Jesus as a God or fellow human being, who worshiped the true God as they did?
Do you understand that Jesus was a son of God as Adam was, because God supplied his male DNA, into the womb of Mary?
Do you understand the God was Jesus actual Father at berth, even before he was born again at his baptizm.
Do you understand that the term “only begotten” is referencing that Jesus was the “only” human being brought into his existence by GOD impregnating a human women?
Do you understand that being born by a women , makes him a son of man also like us?
Do you understand that he was the actual decendent of KING DAVID as he said he was?
TC…..your problem is you have incorporated trinitarian theological thinking into you mind, and that has caused you to constantly use their Reasonings to try to explain scripture, their Reasonings are based on GNOSTIC PLATOIAN false teachings.
TC better to be taught by the SPIRIT OF TRUTH , then man’s “mystery religious concepts”
Bottom line TC is, you seem unable to relate with Jesus on any human level, your teaching of seperation is exactly what SATAN want people to believe. His teachings moves Jesus away from his brothers and sisters, by making him out to be completely different then we are, because he does not want us to see ourselves as Jesus is, and there by weaken our FAITH IN GOD, by not believing GOD the Father can do for us “exactly” what he did for our brother JESUS.
I believe you may be more of a trinitarian then you think. Go reread 2thes2 , and see how satan makes Jesus into a God, turning the “IMAGE” OF HIM , INTO A GOD, which turn the IMAGE of Jesus into a man of sin, by breaking the first commandment of GOD, “YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GOD BESIDES ME, NOR MAKE ANY “IMAGE’ OF ME IN HEAVEN ABOVE OR EARTH BENEATH. Thats what false religion has done to the “IMAGE” OF THE “MAN” JESUS. It’s all there for those who have to see and ears to hear.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Nick, your one liners cannot compete with the truth in scripture. Don’t give up you day job as the saying goes. lol.
The Ordinary Jesus Brigade still has a serious problem. They have failed to float their proposition that Jesus had not the Spirit of God and was not the Christ, until he reached near the end of his life. They still lack true understanding of Jesus. They have failed to prove their proposition which is that Jesus was not the Christ.
T8…..you need to truly examine you false belief of JESUS prexisting his berth on this earth, you teaching is also a teaching of seperation, that drives a wedge between the man Jesus and his brothers and sisters. You are only half way out of “mystery religion” , you need to repent and come all the way out of those trinitarian teachings. Remember what it says, ‘because you are not hot or cold I will sue you out of my mouth”, so come all the way out brother.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
To all……Anyone who seperates the “MAN” Jesus from his human brothers and sisters, are doing exactly what Satan wants, in so doing they descourage mankind from thinking they can come to, “the measure and “FULL” stature of Christ Jesus”. Who ever worships Jesus as a God is commiting “IDOLATRY”, remember what John said, “little childern, keep yourselves from “IDOLS”.
JESUS IS THE FIRST HUMAN BEING TO ACHIEVE THE GOAL GOD HAS IN MIND FOR ALL OF HUMANITY. DO NOT LET ANY ONE SEPERATE YOU FROM YOU EXACT IDENITY TO HIM. REMEMBER “ALL” THINGS ARE POSSIBLE WITH GOD”. HAVE FAITH IN GOD, AND YOU SHALL CONFORM TO THE EXACTNESS OF JESUS.
Peace and love to you all and yours. …….gene
Gene,
You: Tc…..Your the one presenting Jesus as a God, not me, and where it says ” I will declare your name unto my brethren ” that clearly shows he is Identifying himself with us as a human being, not some kind of “morphed” preexisting person of some kind. You and all trenitarians preach a preexisting Jesus, not Me. You turn to them to get your understandings not me.
Me: Trinitarian means three beings and yet one being. I do not preach this. I declare that God is on being, I just wrote that above. You could not get three out of the son and his father. The Word was with God, and the Word was God (John 1:1). Try not to use your false reasoning to say I am wrong by association. What rubbish.
All phrases and words in the parenthesis are mine.
John 1:14 And the Word (became one with) flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
You, in fact use the Trinitarian clause “God the Father” even as I had told you about this. This shows you how intransigent you are.
You: Tell us…..do you believe Jesus prexisted as a sentinel being , before his berth on this earth?
Me: For the hundredth time no. The Word existed eternally and became one with the seed of David. Christ, the man, came into existence two thousand years ago. Christ was real in the bosom of God from eternity (John 1:18).
You: Do you believe Jesus is the root and offspring of KING DAVID?
Me: not just the root of David but also the Son of God.
Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
We become adopted sons of God through Christ by being baptized in the holy spirit.
You: Do you believe JESUS said that people before pentocost were childern of GOD THE FATHER?
Me No, the word of God says no such thing. You need to baptized by holy spirit to be a son of God. You need to crucify and die to your old man and resurrect with your new man. Then you become a son of God by adoption through Christ as I explained above. Adam was called a son of God because he had no ancestors and was brought into being in the image of God. The angels too are called the sons of God because they had no angelic ancestors but came directly from God and are in his image. But you need to be baptized of the holy spirit to be called a son of God.
You: DO you believe Jesus called himself “son of man” over 60 times in scriptures.
Me: He was also called the son of God about 43 times. Jesus is called the Son of God, not the son of God in the NT. He is the (Son of God) of man.
You: Do you actually think the apostles saw Jesus as a God or fellow human being, who worshiped the true God as they did?
Me: The apostles saw Christ as the son of God who is God revealed to our senses (Matt 223:19). They also seen him as a man. You see him just as a man.
Matt 14:27 But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. 28 And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. 29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. 31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? 32 And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased. 33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.
The Disciples Were Not Afraid to Worship Jesus (Even Though They Should Have Been)
Gene:
Gene:
You: Do you understand that Jesus was a son of God as Adam was, because God supplied his male DNA, into the womb of Mary?
Me: He had a human tent with his life here on earth. His human DNA was from the seed of David through his mother Mary. His spirit mind was the Word of God with the heart of God (Jn 1:1,14) His spirit was the holy spirit. His human heart was of the seed of mind of David (Ezk 36:26).
You: Do you understand the God was Jesus actual Father at berth, even before he was born again at his baptizm.
Me: What you just said is plain stupid. God is spirit. He does not have DNA. Yes, God could create DNA from nothing and bind it with the human DNA of Mary, his mother, and create the image that was the Word expressed from eternity. The Messiah was not born again. The Word in him was never born but existed from eternity. That is the fullness of the deity in him from conception. The human mind and heart in him was conceived 2,000 years ago. They grew humanly and in their bond with the Word of God.
You: Do you understand that the term “only begotten” is referencing that Jesus was the “only” human being brought into his existence by GOD impregnating a human women?
Me: Begotten refers to the spirit firstly and then the body that follows. The “ only begotten son of God” refers to both Christ as the only human formed by God directly in the womb of Mary, AND the only son (the Word became flesh) born of God directly and fully in the womb of Mary. We become adopted sons of God through the baptism of the holy spirit, not directly as he was.
You: Do you understand that being born by a women , makes him a son of man also like us?
Me: Christ is the (Son of God) of man. Son is capitalized in the NT. Christ is THE Son of God, not a son of God. He is the Son of God in man. He is the only one born directly of God as the Son of God. We becomes sons of God through him.
You: Do you understand that he was the actual decendent of KING DAVID as he said he was?
Phil 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Me: The Word of God is God (John 1:1). The Son of God is God (Heb 1:8). The Messiah father is greater than he, but the image is still one and the same as God. The “Word was with God” in John 1:1 shows subordination.
Meaning of Lord is master, not brother.
Me: As God the Messiah is our master. He is called Master many times in the NT.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=Master&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_3
As a human, he is our brother.
Luke 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
Hi T8,
You:
The Ordinary Jesus Brigade still has a serious problem. They have failed to float their proposition that Jesus had not the Spirit of God and was not the Christ, until he reached near the end of his life. They still lack true understanding of Jesus. They have failed to prove their proposition which is that Jesus was not the Christ.
Me: Amein to that.
Gene:
You: TC…..So Jesus lied when he said we should pray “Our Father” which art in heaven? And when Jesus said to them I am going to my father “and” Your father, my God “and” Your God. That was before Pentecost when those words were spoken, there are even more “Your Father who is in heaven knows you have need of these things”, and even more, but you are desperate to make Jesus completely different from his brothers and sisters, but it seem Jesus never tried to make himself different or separate from us, saying over 60 times he is a son of man. Just as we are. Jesus had a complete different point of view then you it seem.
Me: No, Jesus doesn’t lie—you do.
1 Cor 12:3...and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
John 14:20 At that day (time) ye shall know that I am in MY Father, and ye in me, and I in you…23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and MY Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of MY Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
Me: God becomes our father when we become God’s sons through Christ through the holy spirit. Notice in the above verses that it is “MY father” and not “OUR father”.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to MY Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Me: John 20:17 in conjunction with the three verses above mean that God become our father after we receive the baptism of the holy spirit and become God’s adopted sons. The apostles did not have the holy spirit in them until John 20:22 and the holy spirit with Christ in it until after Christ had ascended into heaven. The same is true for the Lord’s Prayer. They could not be the sons of God until then, neither God be their father until then.
Good Morning t8,
YOU: but through his death he provided the way of salvation to all,
ME: Yes “through his death he provided the way of salvation to all” I agree.
I also think we can agree to this statement,
According to WHO the infant Jesus was at his birth we have salvation through his death.
As you have just demonstrated t8 that your understanding of salvation does not come from just one verse, it does not just come from Luke 2:11 alone.
I am hoping that we can go through and discuss the many other passages that speak of our salvation.
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he SUFFERED; 9 And BEING MADE PERFECT, he BECAME the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Isaiah 52 and 53 below speaks of this person WHO suffered and why he was to suffer and what he would OBTAIN BECAUSE of it. This person is called a servant, and it is the SAME SERVANT also spoken of by Isaiah beforehand in chapter 42 and 49, and is the SAME SERVANT Isaiah spoke about later in chapter 61.
Isaiah 52:13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. 14 As many were astonished at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: 15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider. 53: 3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed… 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Hi t8,
Not only do we have prophecy that speaks of Jesus suffering and what he receives because of it, we also have prophecy about God forming Jesus in the womb to be His servant, to bring Jacob again unto Him as well as bring light to the Gentiles.
Isaiah 49: 1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. 2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified. 4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God. 5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. 6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. 7 Thus saith the LORD, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the LORD that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee. 8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages; 9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places. 10 They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.
TC…..You completely engorged the scripture I quoted, and changed subject matter . I quoted scriptures where Jesus plainly said he was going to his fat h e and our father, his God, and our God. Does that sound to you that Jesus was in anyway seperating himself from the rest of his brothers and sisters?
As I said you are using trinitarian reasonings, to SEPERATE Jesus from his human brothers and sisters.
You try to make the word “master” as meaning JESUS IS DIFFERENT THEN WE ARE. Like because he is a master or teacher we should worship him, as a God somekind. Did not Jesus say “it is enough the the student be as the teacher.”
Your over work is to SEPERATE JESUS FROM HIS BROTHERS AND SISTERS, making him appear completely different then we are.
That is exactly what Satan wants his preachers to preach. Even when you quote scriptures like ‘we should bow our knee to JESUS, BUT YOU FAIL TO INFASIZE IN ITALICS , “TO THE GLORY OF GOD”,
WHAT ABOUT THIS SCRIPTURE , “the son of man can do “NOTHING” of him self, the Father who is in him “HE” doth the works.”.
Face it TC your whole work is to “SEPERATING” JESUS FROM HIS BROTHERS AND SISTERS. YOU PUSH THE FATHER ASIDE As you advance Jesus ahead. Go read 2ths2, and see if you are not doing the same thing with JESUS’ “IMAGE”.
I HAVE NO PROBLEM IDENIFYING JESUS AS THE HEAD OF THE HOUSE HOLD “OF” GOD , but you say relate Jesus as GOD, BY quoting scriptures where Jesus said he was in God and God was in him, that true, but you fail to say we also are in the father and in the son and they are in us. You leave t h at pRt out of your understanding, why because it make us and Jesus all in God the same way and God in us just as he is also Jesus.
You also treat the word messiah, as if that some how seperate Jesus’ from us. Tell me this was Moses not a messiah also? , was he not a fellow human being? There were many messiahs. Or anointed ones of God throughout all human history.
The word messiah simply means a human being anointed with the HOLY SPIRIT which Jesus as well as Moses was, and all who have the spirit of the living God in that are also anointed ones. But you use that word messiah to “SEPERATE” JESUS from his brothers and sisters.
You are indeed a worker of “SEPERATION” rather you see it or not.
Did not Jesus even say that all who believe in him would do greater works the he did, because he was going to the Father.
You even try to change context by infasizing wrong parts of sentences or go to different trinitarian understandings from their sites to try to blend text to meet your renditions of “SEPERATION” , IMO.
By the way I do not worship Jesus as a God , I worship the same God he worships. I bow to Jesus to the “GLORY OF GOD” that is why I bow to him.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Hi t8,
There is even more word of God about this servant in prophecy,
Isaiah 61: 1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified…. 11 For as the earth bringeth forth her bud, and as the garden causeth the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord GOD will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.
The word anointed here is mashach, which Messiah or mashiyach also means anointed, which the word origin of mashiyach is mashach.
Luke 4: 1 And Jesus BEING FULL of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered. 3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread. 4 And Jesus answered him, saying,It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God…. 13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season. 14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. 16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
t8, “according to WHO the infant Jesus was at his birth we have salvation through his death.”
Isaiah 49:5 now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him,
The angel was NOT ignorant to God’s word spoken to the prophet Isaiah t8, and as you admit we are not saved by the birth of the infant, it was WHO the infant WAS even before he was born we are saved. The infant was the person of Isaiah’s prophecies. The infant was to be a servant who God would ANOINT (mashach, mashiyach, chrio, christos ) and SEND out into the world to fulfill God’s promise to Abraham. The INFANT was the SEED of Abraham of whom God had foretold in His word, even before He created heaven and earth. WHY do I say these things?? BECAUSE they are WRITTEN, because they are the word of God and I BELIEVE them.
This servant would be anointed and be through his death a SAVIOR, and it is the savior that the angel said was the Christ the Lord. He says, “a Savior, which is Christ the Lord.”
Isaiah 42: 1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
Hi t8,
There is EVEN MORE WORD OF GOD that we can APPLY!!
Romans 1: 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was MADE of the SEED of David according to the flesh; 4 And DECLARED to be the Son of God with power, ACCORDING TO the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
1 Chronicles 17: 7 “Now then, tell my servant David, ‘This is what the LORD Almighty says: I took you from the pasture, from tending the flock, and appointed you ruler over my people Israel. 8 I have been with you wherever you have gone, and I have cut off all your enemies from before you. Now I will make your name like the names of the greatest men on earth. 9 And I will provide a place for my people Israel and will plant them so that they can have a home of their own and no longer be disturbed. Wicked people will not oppress them anymore, as they did at the beginning 10 and have done ever since the time I appointed leaders over my people Israel. I will also subdue all your enemies. “ ‘I declare to you that the LORD will build a house for you: 11 When your days are over and you go to be with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, one of your own sons, and I will establish his kingdom.
12 He is the one who will build a house for me, and I will establish his throne forever. 13 I will be his father, and he will be my son. I will never take my love away from him, as I took it away from your predecessor. 14 I will set him over my house and my kingdom forever; his throne will be established forever.’ ”
Psalms 89:21 My hand will sustain him; surely my arm will strengthen him. 22 The enemy will not get the better of him; the wicked will not oppress him. 23 I will crush his foes before him and strike down his adversaries. 24 My faithful love will be with him, and through my name his horn will be exalted. 25 I will set his hand over the sea, his right hand over the rivers. 26 He will call out to me, ‘You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.’ 27 And I will appoint him to be my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth. 28 I will maintain my love to him forever, and my covenant with him will never fail. 29 I will establish his line forever, his throne as long as the heavens endure.
The eternal purpose is HELD, not in a pre-existing being that was SENT to earth, but it is by Jesus of the SEED of Abraham who would be the CHRIST and sent out into the world. ALL things were created by God through Jesus Christ. ALL THINGS were created not through and FOR a pre-existing son, ALL THINGS were created through and FOR Abraham’s SEED and David’s SEED, who shed his blood to be our savior. This anointed seed of Abraham and David had to first learn obedience and be perfected through suffering, as by that reason he is able to be our sacrificed lamb.
Being raised firstborn of many brethren he fulfills God’s word from Psalms 89. ALL things were created through and FOR the CHRIST, the seed of Abraham t8.
We are told that because Jesus the Christ died for us BY THAT REASON he is worthy to obtain FIRST PLACE over all of creation and be a master over all of God’s works.
Ephesians 3: 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: 12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. 13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Gene:
You: TC…..You completely engorged the scripture I quoted, and changed subject matter . I quoted scriptures where Jesus plainly said he was going to his father and our father, his God, and our God. Does that sound to you that Jesus was in anyway seperating himself from the rest of his brothers and sisters?
Me: Let someone with a little more spirit than you comment on the verses you quoted.
Ellicott’s Commentary for English Readers
But go to my brethren, and say unto them.–Comp. Notes on Matthew 28:10, and on John 15:15. There is a special force in the word “brethren” as spoken by the risen Lord, in that it declares the continuance of His human nature. (See Hebrews 2:11.)I ascend unto my Father, and your Father.–The present is used of the future, which He regards as immediately at hand. The message to the brethren is an assurance that the going to the Father, of which He had so often spoken to them, was about to be realised. The victory over death has been accomplished. This appearance on earth is an earnest of the return to heaven. “Unto My Father,” He now says, “and your Father.” It is a more emphatic expression than “our Father” would have been. “I ascend unto My Father. Because He is My Father, He is also your Father, and you are My brethren. My victory over death was the victory of man, whose nature has in Me conquered death. My ascension into heaven will be the ascension of human nature, which in Me goes to the Father.”
My God, and your God.–This phrase contains the same fulness of meaning, and adds the special thought of the continuity of the human nature of our Lord, which has already appeared in the word “brethren.” (See Note above.)Me: Notice the order, my God and then your God. My Father and then your father. Christ doesn’t use “our” Father and “our” God. To say that we are not sons of God until after Pentecost and then say God is our Father before that is just plain absurd. Adam was called the son of God because he was created in God’s image and had no ancestors but came directly from God. So were the angels.
Gene:
You: As I said you are using trinitarian reasonings, to SEPERATE Jesus from his human brothers and sisters.
You try to make the word “master” as meaning JESUS IS DIFFERENT THEN WE ARE. Like because he is a master or teacher we should worship him, as a God some kind. Did not Jesus say “it is enough the student be as the teacher.”Me: Pease list the whole context of the thought here: I will.
Matt 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
Me: For what we are addressing, Christ is above his disciples being their lord and master. We should strive to be like him. It is not that we are of equal rank. with Christ. We are not.
John 1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; 27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
Me: Did John the Baptist consider himself equal with Christ. You say yes, I say no.
You: Your over work is to SEPERATE JESUS FROM HIS BROTHERS AND SISTERS, making him appear completely different then we are.
That is exactly what Satan wants his preachers to preach. Even when you quote scriptures like ‘we should bow our knee to JESUS,Me: No where did I say or imply that we should be completely different from Christ. I have always emphatically emphases that we should strive to be like him, not him lower himself and become like us, especially you.
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Me: We should strive to become like Christ not some flesh and bone zombie with any blood— sick. We are to become holy, yet you seem to say that Christ did not. Da.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Me: Christ builds us up to be like him. That is the good news. That is the gospel message—flesh to become one with God as the Word became one with flesh. But depending on one’s good works, a reward is in store. Not all will be of the same glory (Luke 19:16-19, 1 Cor 3:12-13, 1Cor 15: 41).
Gene:
You: BUT YOU FAIL TO EMPHASIS IN ITALICS , “TO THE GLORY OF GOD”,
Phil 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
Me: Our heavenly Father honors the son and the son likewise honors his Father. It is complementary and reciprocally. They are one person.
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Me: God here includes his Word. The light is the expression of God with the humanity of Christ in it.
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