- This topic has 3,867 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 1 year ago by
.
- Posts
Hi T8,
‘Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it’ was the instruction God gave to Adam and Eve.
But instead you think his children were told to PARTAKE OF FLESH?
Interesting.
Gene you are so correct!
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
34 Then said Jesus,Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
Psalms 73:22 So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee.
Isaiah 56:10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy
Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded 8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. 30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
WITHOUT God’s mercy and his calling, we are left BLIND, IGNORANT, like a snake who cannot see or hear, having no knowledge of God, only our carnal minds where we invent with our own imaginations that which is righteous. While God keeps others in darkness it allows those who are called to SEE the source of truth and wisdom, that only God is good, and we need His mercy, His gift of the Spirit. Otherwise we might think it comes from us. Adam and Eve thought they could get it from eating fruit, but the truth is that in order for us to be made in the image of God as God intended we must learn from Him and receive from Him. Jesus teaches us that it is by a calling and an anointing that we are made in God’s image.
To t8 and ALL,
I am seeing a major lack of not counting prophecy in understanding Luke 2:11.
I’d like to start with Jesus telling John that he was to be baptized in order to fulfill ALL righteousness, which was a prophecy that Isaiah gave.
Matthew 3: 13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Isaiah 42: 1 “Here is my SERVANT, whom I uphold, my CHOSEN one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations…6 “I, the LORD, have CALLED YOU IN righteousness; I will TAKE HOLD OF YOUR HAND. I will KEEP YOU and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, 7 to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness. 8 “I am the LORD; that is my name! I will NOT yield MY GLORY to ANOTHER..
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, THE GLORY as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 6: 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
When Jesus went to meet John at the river, he was the SERVANT that God upheld, he was God’s chosen from among the people, God would anoint him with His Spirit without measure and with all power, MAKING him THE CHRIST the ANOINTED, CALLING him into RIGHTEOUSNESS, where God would take his hand and keep him for a covenant for the people a light for the Gentiles. God would NOT give this GLORY to another! God would not beget any other mortal human with this glory. At the river the SERVANT was made the Christ, being BORN of the Spirit, the only begotten Son.
Isaiah 42 MUST be applied to Matthew 3, John 1, John 6, and definitely Luke 2. How do you declare anything you say about a scripture to be true, if you do not keep the WORD of God spoken to Isaiah of which we see referenced and quoted time and time again in the Gospels?
Isaiah 42: 9 Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.
Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
The angel was declaring the words of the prophet Isaiah in the infant Jesus.
Likewise so did Simeon ALSO in Luke 2,
Luke 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. 26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ. 27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, 28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31 Which thou hast PREPARD before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
Simeon said, “Which thou hast PREPARD before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.”
t8, Simeon CLEARLY knew prophecy of Isaiah which says, “I will keep “you” and will make “you” to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles,”
Simeon said his eyes saw God’s salvation, the salvation that He prepared, it would be a light to lighten the Gentiles and the glory of the people Israel, which is of Isaiah 42.
The SERVANT Jesus would become the CHRIST, anointed with the full measure of the Holy Spirit, being begotten by God, BORN of the Spirit. Through this anointing he would be a light for the Gentiles.
John the baptist’s Father ALSO during John’s circumcision GAVE his own prophecy and spoke of OT prophecy in regards to John and to Jesus who was not born yet.
Luke 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
Zacharias is speaking of the CHILD that would grow being a servant of God who God would find delight in, God would put his Spirit upon this servant, call him to righteousness and will make him into a covenant for the people a light for the Gentiles.
Read it again!!
Isaiah 42: 1 “Here is my SERVANT, whom I uphold, my CHOSEN one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations…6 “I, the LORD, have CALLED YOU IN righteousness; I will TAKE HOLD OF YOUR HAND. I will KEEP YOU and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, 7 to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness. 8 “I am the LORD; that is my name! I will NOT yield MY GLORY to ANOTHER..
Isaiah 7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. 16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
Luke 2: 39 And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth. 40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
The child grew strong in spirit, filled with wisdom and the GRACE of God was upon him.
Compare that to,
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
PRIOR to the baptism Jesus was a SERVANT who God delighted in. At the river he was given the GLORY of God so that he could preach, heal, show signs and miracles, so he could be kept from sin, so that his faith could be made perfect, so he could fulfill the covenant for the people, be a lamb without spot or blemish, save the people from their sins by his death.
Compare
The child grew strong in spirit, filled with wisdom and the GRACE of God was upon him.
To,
Mathew 3: 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness..
Isaiah 11:1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. 2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him— the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of might, the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the LORD— 3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears; 4 but with righteousness he will judge the needy, with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked. 5 Righteousness will be his belt and faithfulness the sash around his waist.
Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
The passage says that born this day is a savior.
The infant’s birth did not save us, the infant Jesus would BECOME a savior dying on the cross for our sins.
The infant would become a savior and that savior is said to be Christ our master.
The angel’s words were of prophecy, as likewise were Simeon’s words quoting from Isaiah and likewise Zacharias gave prophecy about the child of him becoming a savior, and it is the Savior that is Christ our master.
Luke 2:11 is speaking of prophecy. The infant was not yet a savior, that was prophetic, neither was the infant yet anointed or a master.
The infant did not come out of the womb and by that we are saved.
He did not come out of the womb anointed full of God’s Spirit and power able to speak God’s words, able to perform signs or miracles.
He did not come out of the womb as a master to anyone as he sucked from his mother’s breasts.
He did not come out of the womb a perfect human, that was established after he had been given the GLORY of God, the full measure of the Spirit, then going to the cross in FAITH being MADE perfect by that which he suffered, BECOMING the author of eternal salvation to them that obey him (Hebrews 5).
Ephesians 4: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
The Son of God is a HUMAN, he is the offspring of David, he was a servant that at the river Jordan was BORN of God’s Spirit becoming a Son of God, the only human given the full measure of an ANOINTING, and why we call him the CHRIST.
Recall Jesus’s WORDS to John, he must be baptized “to fulfill all righteousness”, recall Isaiah’s prophetic words, that the servant would be filled with the Spirit and CALLED to righteousness. Now read the words of John,
1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest,
Jesus was BORN of God called to righteousness at his baptism, this is how the Son of God was manifested. The servant of the seed of David was filled with God’s seed, the Spirit given without measure. The Spirit remains in him, Isaiah the prophet said that the servant would receive the Spirit, he would be called to righteousness and God would hold his hand and KEEP him so that he could be a savior, flesh without spot or blemish to be sacrificed for sins.
The Spirit that came down like a dove onto Jesus, it was the bread of life, ANOINTED FLESH. JESUS SAID the BREAD of LIFE is HIS FLESH. This is not any flesh, but the flesh that was anointed and CALLED into RIGHTEOUSNESS. God’s WORD became flesh, the prophet Isaiah’s words were fulfilled upon the flesh of Jesus becoming anointed, he was born of God, called to righteousness, the Son of God was manifested and then SENT out into the world.
What we find in the NT is fulfilled prophecy given in the OT, we even have prophecy of the OT being quoted in the NT. Many on this forum are ignoring it. They change the Christ to a god, to a pre-existing being, and to an infant, when it is a literal descendant of David who was a servant of God becoming ANOINTED with God’s Spirit. They change the Son of God ignoring prophecy, that he is the Son of Man, the Son of David, a servant being begotten of God through His Spirit calling him into righteousness. The Son of God came to be when the Son of David became the Christ. They go hand in hand. That is exactly what the scriptures I have given prove. BELIEVE in God’s WORD spoken through the prophet Isaiah, and apply it to NT passages, it is truly that simple. When you KEEP the knowledge of who the TRUE CHRIST and who the TRUE Son of God is then you can understand other scriptures correctly, when you don’t you end up creating distortion and lies. This is exactly what happens when people read John 1, Colossians 1 and Philippians 2, and Hebrews 2, and many other passages not holding to this truth.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, THE GLORY as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Isaiah 42: 1 “Here is my SERVANT, whom I uphold, my CHOSEN one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will bring justice to the nations…6 “I, the LORD, have CALLED YOU IN righteousness; I will TAKE HOLD OF YOUR HAND. I will KEEP YOU and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, 7 to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness. 8 “I am the LORD; that is my name! I will NOT yield MY GLORY to ANOTHER..
The ONLY begotten of the Father in John 1 is the SERVANT in Isaiah who God gave his Spirit to, this is when the only begotten was made. Jesus was the only man to received God’s Spirit and power without measure. God would not yield His GLORY to ANOTHER, He gave it to this servant who was of the fruit of David’s loins.
Jesus SAID he needed John to baptize him in order to FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS, in Isaiah we are told that God places His Spirit on His human servant calling him into RIGHTEOUSNESS.
WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED of WHEN Jesus BECAME the only begotten Son? Paul tells us in Ephesians 4, that the Son of God IS a PERFECT MAN, not a pre-existing god, or a pre-existing son.
Paul tells us,
Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
God’s word to David was that his son’s flesh would not see corruption. Paul declares God’s promise as being fulfilled. The Son is of the seed of David, not of pre-existence.
Jesus is of the seed of David according to the flesh. He is a Son of God according to his anointing, he is a Son by his resurrection from the dead.
Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Jodi….good post, so clear, so exact, and most can’t even understand it here. Simply amazing. What this shows if God has sent unto a person a deluding spirit, no matter how clear it is put before them , they just can’t get it. Many live in confusion and are deluded, which brings to mind the scripture that says, “unless the LORD, builds the house the weary builders build in vain” , unless the LORD’S the city shield, the guards maintain a uses watch.”
Keep up the good work Jodi, because some who have the spirit of truth are ediffied by it here.
Peace and love to you and yours ………gene
Thanks Gene, your post reminded me of a song I use to sing, back when we both belonged to the same church. Wondering now if we ever attended the same Feast of Tabernacles at one point. I live on the West Coast so I attended various sites mostly not too far. Victoria Canada and Tucson Arizona was the furthest we traveled from Oregon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SrsyeXucWs
.iHi Gene,
Yes. Some are so deluded they do not recognise Satan and his works among men.
Their approval of your fanciful ideas counts for little
Jodi……I was in the WWCG and attended the Feast of tabernacles, at lake Tahoe in California US. I was in my 30’s , that was over 46 years ago. Those feast days were wonderful time in my and my families life, my childern still speak of t h e wonderfully times we had, I wish we were all keeping them again, and according to Zachariah 14:16 we will again, looking forward for that great time of joy again.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Nick. …..You would do much better to listening to what were saying, instead of trying to trash it. You really don’t full understand yet what you think you do brother.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Hi Gene,
But you and Jodi speak with the voices of strangers.
Your words do not align with the teacher’s.
We are not meant to listen to them.
Hi T8,
According to you all men PARTAKE OF FLESH. An odd turn of phrase.
They begin life by conception in their mother’s womb, just as Jesus did.
But somehow you think that this man had life before he was conceived?
Are you sure you are not confusing the man with the anointing Spirit?
Heb 10.5
Therefore when he comes into the world, he says
’Sacrifice and offering Thou hast not desired,
but a body Thou has prepared for me;’
The WORD, that was with God and was God in the beginning, was made flesh and dwelled among us.
Nick…..No word “IS” FLESH, even our words are not flesh, God is a Spirit, that is if you believe Jesus, the word who is God “came to be”, “IN” the flesh man Jesus, by the anointing he recieved at the Jordan. But the word itself “never” became flesh. No word can “BE” FLESH, BUT IT CAN EXIST “IN” FLESH.
God used Jesus’ body as a temple he dwelt in, just as he can ours. Just as it says, “your body is the temple of the living God”.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Nick,
What did God say? What did God promise?
He promised that a human servant would be anointed with His Spirit.
This word of God an anointing became flesh, as the flesh of Jesus was anointed at the river.
The word of God was fulfilled in the flesh.
Jesus said,
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Isaiah tells us (the word of God tells us) that the servant would be anointed and thus led by the Spirit, we are told in the NT that Jesus received the FULL measure of the Spirit. We are also told that this anointing of the Spirit is a CALL to righteousness. Jesus said he had to be baptized in order to FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS. We are also told by Paul that by the suffering of Jesus’s flesh he was MADE PERFECT, he remained faithful and when he died on the cross his flesh was without spot or blemish.
The living bread that came down from God, Jesus SAID WAS HIS FLESH and he GAVE HIS FLESH for the LIFE of the WORLD.
The WORD of God was prophecy, it was FULFILLED in the FLESH of Jesus. The WORD of God is truth, when He speaks of the future it is as if it already exists, because it will happen.
Speaking of the ANOINTING and the SERVANT’S call to righteousness, Isaiah 42 says,
8 “I am the LORD; that is my name! I will NOT yield MY GLORY to ANOTHER.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The WORD here is God’s word, which we are told, 3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
God’s WORD that He spoke before He even made the world, that WORD that He gave to the prophets was anointed flesh that would save people from their sins, this word of God existed in the flesh of Jesus upon his anointing, where he received God’s glory and BECAME God’s “only begotten Son”. He then sent this Son out into the world, He sent this “only begotten Son” to die for our sins.
Nick……JESUS SAID, John 6: 63….. “it is the Spirit that quickens; the flesh prophets nothing: the words I speak unto you,they are Spirit and are life”, that alone should clarify it for you, but he also said,
John 14:10……” believes you not that I am in the Father and the Father is “in” me?, the ‘WORDS’ that I Speak unto you, I speak not od myself: but the Father that delete in me he does the works.
Jesus also said that God was a Spirit. And the spirit is not flesh. He told us Nick, so put it together , the word which is spirit did not “become flesh” , but “came to be in flesh, the flesh man Jesus. Trinitarians were forcing the text to make it appear that the flesh man Jesus was GOD. ARE YOU NOW BACKING THEM UP NICK? Just kidding I know you are not.
Peace and love to you and yours Nick………gene
God’s Word before He made the world was eternal life for human beings of which was held in the anointed mortal human flesh of Jesus.
That anointed human flesh would be made perfect, as it was a CALL to FULFILL ALL righteousness, and that flesh was made PERFECT when it went up to the cross with unrelenting faith in God, so that when Jesus died in weak mortal flesh, it was the lamb without spot or blemish, pure from sin and pure in faith, having overcome all temptation and following the will of man.
To ALL,
The angel spoke prophecy, that the child being born is the one that would be the savior, and the savior is Christ the master.
I compared the difference between the child that grew in wisdom, verses the man who was a servant well pleasing to God who became filled with the Spirit of God without measure.
The anointing of Jesus at the river, where he received the glory of the Father in full measure was when he became the “only begotten Son”. The only mortal who God had said He would call to righteousness, and be a light to the Gentiles and save Israel, was begotten of God being born of His Spirit at the river.
Jesus said he had to be baptized in order to fulfill ALL righteousness, Jesus said that he had been anointed by God’s Spirit and SENT out to perform God’s will. Jesus as a mortal human with weak flesh was GIVEN God’s glory, Jesus had all the powers of God, he could even raise the dead! He never used those powers to serve his own will, he only used them to serve the will of God.
1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
That which was SENT into the world that we might live through him, was not a pre-existing Son. We live through the FLESH of Jesus, the flesh that was a servant that became anointed with the full measure of God’s Spirit, and through that anointing Jesus was perfected, and through the death of this perfected human we are saved from our sins.
Hi Jodi,
To be ANOINTED BY the Spirit does not ensure that anyone is LED BY the Spirit.
Not my will but thine be done.
Nick when you have been anointed with the Spirit you are being led by the Spirit they are one and the same.
Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,….18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Hi Jodi,
Nonsense.
Those given the 10 minas in Lk 19 did not always produce a profit for the nobleman.
Some were worthless slaves.
Nick I have been talking about JESUS, he was anointed with the full measure of the Spirit, and was led by God’s Spirit to perfectly follow God’s will.
Some people have been anointed with God’s Spirit receiving a gift, whether it be to speak in tongues, or to give prophecy, or to heal..ect. These have not been fully anointed, and thus they are not fully led by the Spirit.
If it is God’s will that a person performs something, they will be anointed in order to perform it being led by the Spirit to accomplish it. This does not equate to them following God perfectly as Jesus did, how could they as they did not receive the full measure, this does not equate to them being led by the Spirit in all aspects of their life with everything they do, how could it they did not receive God’s Spirit without measure. Jesus is the only mortal human from among the brethren that was begotten by God, and thus the ONLY mortal human that will have ever been led by God’s Spirit to perfectly follow God’s will.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
