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God promised a messiah. When he came, he wasn’t just a mere prophet like the others. He wasn’t just a mere man like the others. He wasn’t just a mere teacher like the others.
God sent his Son into the world.
Why?
Because he paid the highest price to redeem humanity.
Such is the love of God that he paid the highest price to save us.
The price that some suggest here is that he whipped up a single random man, just one average man from among billions. Upon choosing him as the best man for the job, he paid the price with his life.
But God does things above an beyond what you can imagine. Trouble is you cannot imagine it, so you do not believe it. Just take a look at what we understand about the universe and its sheer size and scale. There are more worlds than sand grains on all the beaches in the world.
Further, it is logical to assume that an eternal God begat another life beside him and that there had to be a first begotten. So why couldn’t God send the first begotten if his love is eternal? Why couldn’t God send the first born of all creation to replace the firstborn of our world who sinned? Is it not God’s nature to not only fix a problem, but for the remedy to make things even better.
But as it is written, eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
I realise not all have such faith in the wonders of God.
Proclaimer……It not about what God, “COULD DO” or “CAN DO”, it’s about what he “DID DO” , right? , your looking at “ORDINARY”, mankind in a nothing sense , only shows you disregard for MANKIND and even the work of God himself. Did God not say he “created us in his ‘image”?, What your missing is how “Great a work God the Father can do”, in and through “HIS” , or as you call it, “ordinary ” human beings . You presenting Jesus as completely removes him from the rest of us humans, makes him appear different then his brothers and sisters, a completely different being, then we are. That is ‘EXACTLY” what Satan want’s you and others to do, believe Jesus is not, a “REAL” human being, exactly like we are, WHY, so we can’t believe God the Father can do with us “EXACTLY” what he did for Jesus our “BROTHER’.
As far as “ORDINARY” goes, I really don’t know any “ORDINARY” HUMAN BEING, I don’t think any such thing exists, I think everyone is special in their own way.
YES Proclaimer, move Jesus away from us all, make him appear different, make us think we never can ” attain to the “MEASURE and the “FULL” STATURE OF Jesus Christ”, Satan LOVES you for that, right along with all the rest of the Trinitarians out there.
Can’t you see, it not only destroys, the work of Jesus in human kind, but the work of God “IN” and “THROUGH”, his human creation. “Wake up Man”.
peace and love to you and yours Proclaimer……….gene
Proclaimer……It not about what God, “COULD DO” or “CAN DO”, it’s about what he “DID DO” ,
This is what he did do. Note, this is not me saying it. I am simply quoting scripture. Yet, you will oppose me for that. Enough said.
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross.…
I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do. And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.
Yourself, Jodi, and Gadam do not believe. That is fine. You are allowed to not believe. You have free will.
Proclaimer……God sent Jesus “into” the world, does not mean he sent him from outside the earth into this world, it means he sent him from “IN” the world, to go out “INTO” the world, to preach the Gospel of the kingdom of God. JESUS also sent the apostles out into the world to preach the same gospel. It means to be sent forth throughout this world, not from outside it, but to be sent out into this earth with the message, God wanted the people in this earth to hear.
peace and love to you and yours Proclaimer……..gene
Proclaimer……God sent Jesus “into” the world, does not mean he sent him from outside the earth into this world,
It says he sent his Son into the world.
It also says that he emptied himself and partook of flesh.
Then it says he is back in the glory he had with the Father before the world.
You have to twist these words which is easy to do.
But I can simply leave the scriptures intact.
And as I mentioned before. I only need to quote the verses and you are opposing me.
Says a lot. But I guess you can’t see how you are attacking the scriptures.
But as I have said before. You are free to choose to believe or not.
You and gadam are brothers in this sense. Both of you do not believe in him.
Hi Proclaimer ,
Allow me to add these scriptures as well:
John6:62If then you shall see THE SON OF MAN ascend up where
HE WAS BEFORE?
NOTICE PLEASE, JESUS WAS ALREADY PHYSICALLY THE SON OF MAN,
PR-EXISTED BEFORE THE WORLD WAS AS
JESUS CHRIST!
GODMAN
THE EMBODIMENT OF GOD, THE GENUINE PHYSICAL IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD!
THE PRIMORDIAL LIGHT,
IN ONE GLORY WITH THE FATHER A SPIRIT WITHIN!
THE FATHER IN THE SON AND THE SON IN THE FATHER!
John 1:11IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
THE FACT THAT JESUS EMPTIED HIMSELF!
NOW READ THIS PLEASE:
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,
the Son of man who is in heaven.
As clear as crystal:
THE SON OF MAN IS IN HEAVEN;
ETERNALLY IN HEAVEN, AND HE REMAINED IN HEAVEN, DESPITE JESUS BEING ON EARTH, BUT HIDDEN AND UNKNOWN!
OBVIOUS IN ORDER FOR THE SON THE REVEAL HIM PHYSICALLY BODY-WISE IN JESUS!
JESUS PRE-EXISTED!
John16:28 I came forth from the Father, (AD EXTRA)
and am come into the world:
again I leave the world,
and I go to the Father. (AD INTRA)
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Yes, this verse is very clear.
Gene doesn’t believe this verse as well.
John 6:62
If then you shall see THE SON OF MAN ascend up where HE WAS BEFORE.
Proclaimer and Carmel………In God we “all” existed before. We are the fulfillment of God the Fathers plan and we’re preordained before we and everything else ever existed.
When Jesus said , “no, “MAN” “Can”, ascend up into heaven except he who descended from heaven, He was speaking of mankind , Jesus was A “Son of man” and therefore a man, but all the men that are born from above or heaven, will, after they are “born” again like Jesus was, after he was resurrected from the dead, will also “ascend ” up into heaven exactly like Jesus did. Jesus is the “first born” OF “MANY” BROTHERS”, not the “ONLY” one born, from above, but of “MANY BROTHERS”, that are to be born of the Spirit of God the Father, not as you people try to make him appear to be different then we his brothers and sisters are.
You people never stop “SEPARATING” JESUS , from the rest of his, “God given”, human brothers and sisters .
Believe me, you people are exactly who Satan want’s working for him. No one could do a better job of, “Separating” Jesus from his human brothers and sister as you people do. That’s a ” great Iniquity “.
Therefore he says, ” MANY” shall come in “MY” name saying I am Christ, and deceive “many”. And again, Many shall come and say unto me, Lord, Lord , we have in your name cast out demons, in your name heal the sick, and done many wonderful works , and I shall say unto them, “depart” from me, you workers of “iniquity”, I know you not”.
Now ask yourselves, who exactly is a “worker of iniquity ” , find the answer of what an “iniquity is” and it may surprise you and help you out . Go read the letter to the Church of Ephesus, the problem is there, and the answer is here, Matt 22:36-40
peace and love to you all and yours………….gene
Hi Gadam,
Thanks for giving your understanding and some of the OT passages you believe are referring to a coming Messiah. Knowing your understanding is helpful in responding to your other post, 891807.
If I interpreted the NT passages that you gave from that post as you do, I would reach the same conclusions as you do, but I don’t. Seems like this is a continuation to a conversation we had a while back! I do not believe that my interpretations to those NT passages conflict with the promised coming Messiah from the OT prophecies.
I do not believe that the NT teaches that Jesus pre-existed, nor that he is more than a human being, nor that he is equal to YHVH. Jesus is a human who was perfected by YHVH through the works of YHVH’s Spirit.
Hi Berean,
YOU:
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
[38] For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.Jesus comes from above
He is the creator of all things, he is before all things, all things subsist in him … (see Colossians, Hebrews, John etc …)ME:
Once again, scripture tells you WHEN he was sent.
Jesus quotes an OT prophecy concerning himself, prophecy of a coming anointed one who would be the offspring of Jesse (Isaiah 7,42,61).
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, BECAUSE he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
According to YHVH’s word, according to His promise, FIRST you have an offspring of Jesse, THEN the Spirit of YHVH comes upon him where he is anointed for the purpose of being sent out into the world TO preach, TO heal, TO liberate.
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
There was no sending until Jesus received the Spirit at the river Jordan. His purpose was to speak the words of God, he was sent when he received the Spirit that enabled him to do so.
Acts 13:23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
Once again, FIRST you have an offspring of Jesse, THEN that offspring is sent.
Acts 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
If they are not of the world and they are being sent into the world, where are they from?
Heaven and God are used interchangeably, kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God mean the same exact thing.
John 6: 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Jesus came down from God, and they being not of the world and sent into the world like Jesus, they came down from God as well. To state it in another way that means the same exact thing, Jesus and those he spoke of in John 17 all came down from heaven.
Hi Berean,
Let me continue,
Acts 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Acts 13:23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
We read of that promise in the passage below,
1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
Psalms 89:24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Once again FIRST you have an offspring of Jesse and David, THEN YHVH becomes His Father.
Berean, it doesn’t appear that you actually believe in God’s word from Paul, including that Jesus is a firstborn of many brethren.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Prior in the chapter we are told by Paul how we become Sons of God to where we thus are in the image of Jesus where he is thus a firstborn of many.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Berean, come out from the darkness! If we are promised to be made into the image of the Son that he might be a firstborn of many brethren, and Paul defines the image of a Son of God as one who is led by the Spirit of God, such is how the son of David, Jesus, is a Son of God and why we are said to be joint heirs of God with him. We are even given an account of Jesus having God’s Spirit descend upon him where at that very moment God declares “this is my beloved Son”. Is God not declaring his promise unto David as being fulfilled?? He most certainly is!! John was there and he bore record that he who had the Spirit descend upon him is “the Son of God”. John was declaring also God’s promises fulfilled, that of 1 Chronicles 17 and Isaiah 7. Then low and behold what happens next? This Son is sent out into the world where he is the only begotten of our heavenly Father to have received the Spirit without measure to where he is led by the Spirit in all ways.
When Jesus dies and is resurrected, what happens?…ACCORDING TO A PROMISE he RECEIVES THE SPIRIT and has eternal life, thus made into an eternal Son and a firstborn of many brethren, no more to return to corruption, as was also promised unto David concerning his son.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Romans 1: 1-4 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures, concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Hi Jodi
I don’t believe everything you tell me.
Jesus comes from heaven.
Heaven is a physical place where the Father and Christ are.
When Jesus told us that he came from heaven, it was because he came from the physical place where he was near his Father.
Ephesians 4: 8
Therefore it is said, Having ascended on high, he led away captives, and gave gifts to men.4: 9 Now what does He ascended mean except that He also descended into the lower regions of the earth?
4:10 He who descended(The Son of God) is the same who ascended above all the heavens to fill all things.
Luke 24:50
He led them as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them.
24:51 While he was blessing them, (JESUS) parted with them and was taken up into heaven.
24:52 As for them, after having worshiped him, they returned to Jerusalem with great joy;
24:53 and they were continually in the temple praising and blessing God.
Jodi & Gene’s teachings on the origins of Jesus Christ have been well and truly debunked.
Scripture shows us their teachings are false.
Hi Berean,
I gave you ample scriptures that contradict your belief and you couldn’t respond addressing not even one of them, it is pointless to discuss scripture with you if we can’t go over the same scriptures. Can you tie in the passages you just gave me with the ones that I gave you and show how the word of God is all united?
Yes, Jesus ascended to heaven, he ascended to the house of YHVH just as YHVH had promised David concerning his son, “but I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever”.
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
descending to the lower parts OF THE EARTH was representing his death, not him coming down from heaven and descending TO earth.
1 Cor 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Psalms 63:9 But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.
Isaiah 44:22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. 23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.
Genesis 37:35 And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted; and he said, For I will go down into the grave unto my son mourning. Thus his father wept for him.
1 Sam 2:6 The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
Job 7:9 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
21:13 They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave.
Psalms 30:3 O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.
Prov 1:12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:
Jodi & Gene’s teachings on the origins of Jesus Christ have been well and truly debunked.
Scripture shows us their teachings are false.
YES TOTALY, SADE TO SAY
Thanks for giving your understanding and some of the OT passages you believe are referring to a coming Messiah. Knowing your understanding is helpful in responding to your other post, 891807.
If I interpreted the NT passages that you gave from that post as you do, I would reach the same conclusions as you do, but I don’t. Seems like this is a continuation to a conversation we had a while back! I do not believe that my interpretations to those NT passages conflict with the promised coming Messiah from the OT prophecies.
I do not believe that the NT teaches that Jesus pre-existed, nor that he is more than a human being, nor that he is equal to YHVH. Jesus is a human who was perfected by YHVH through the works of YHVH’s Spirit
Hi Sis Jodi, thanks for your reply to my posts. Yes I know you will not agree with my arguments on Jesus stating that he was not fit for the post of Hebrew Messiah and he was much more than a human as per the NT which you are ignoring as per your posts on this Forum.
I have gone from Trinitarianism to Unitarianism and now I stand at neutral ground on these Biblical texts.
Thanks for the nice chat…….Adam
Acts 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
If they are not of the world and they are being sent into the world, where are they from?
Hi Sis Jodi I think the above scripture is wrongly mentioned by you as Acts 17:16-18. Please check it up.
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