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Hi Carmel,
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
preeminence -Proteuo
to be first, hold first place
Carmel, God had promised David that he would MAKE his son His firstborn son, higher than the kings of the earth in Psalms 89. . Jesus is the firstborn human of the dead given eternal life. God also promised to David’s son in Psalms 8, that He would be mindful of him, visit him and given him dominion OVER ALL the works of His hands. God also promised, of which we read in Isaiah 53, that the man who would be numbered with transgressors, pay for our transgressions, God would “divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong”.
There was NO person who had preeminence beforehand. The plan was for the firstborn from the dead to receive it from God, this was declared, determined by God before the world even existed.
Hi t8,
YOU:Yes, God declares things in advance. Anyone who believes that the Bible is prophetic, will accept that. And yes Jesus is was a man. He emptied himself and came in the flesh. Wondrous works and grace from God to send his only son to bring many sons into that glory that he had before the cosmos.
ME: OOPS t8, total error on your part,
JESUS is called God’s only begotten Son, there is NO scripture that speaks of some spirit as being God’s only begotten son whose NAME is JESUS, nor is there a scripture that says God sent a spirit son down to earth.
FYI t8, JESUS is NOT the name of a spirit being, JESUS is the name of the son of DAVID, who WOULD be called the Son of the Highest.
31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
FYI t8, God had promised David’s son that He would BEGET David’s son making him into His own Son, such is WHY the angel speaks as he does, as it is according to God’s word from long ago, even before time began.
FYI t8, JESUS after the Spirit resting upon him, an ANOINTING, Jesus says he was SENT. As well 3 scriptures in Acts tell you that Christ CAME after John the baptist preached repentance, preparing the way for the coming of Christ.
Also, scripture tells us that Jesus speaks the words of God for God gave him the Spirit not by measure. The Spirit descends like a dove upon Jesus and abodes upon him, where such is said that he is filled with the Holy Spirit and power. At that moment God says “THIS is my beloved Son”. Paul tells us that JESUS is the son of David and the Son of God according to the Spirit.
ALSO, the son of Jesse would receive the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of the LORD. God would call this man to righteousness, and a man who is righteous according to Paul’s words is one who has been born of God.
Furthermore, as God had promised a man to come who He would rest His Spirit upon and direct all his ways, fill him with the Holy Spirit with Wisdom and Understanding and Knowledge, means that this would become TRUE in the FLESH one day, as a MAN is indeed of FLESH. A man in the FLESH, as that is what a man IS, would be filled with GRACE and TRUTH. RECALL JESUS speaks the word of TRUTH the word of God because God gave him the Spirit not by measure. God’s word from long ago spoken to the prophets WOULD BECOME TRUE in the FLESH, whose FLESH?? The FLESH of JESUS.
JESUS WHOSE NAME means GOD is SALVATION, which according to prophecy a MAN would pay the penalty for our sins according to God. The VERY NAME of JESUS is according to a MAN of prophecy. A MAN called to righteousness for to be a LIGHT to all people. BUT you want to change his name to represent some spirit son.
YOU:He emptied himself and came in the flesh
ME: That’s NOT what scripture says AT ALL. First off, the passage is speaking of JESUS, and it was thus JESUS WHO emptied himself and was made in the likeness of men. ALL MEN are sinners except for the Christ Jesus, for Jesus is the only man that God called to righteousness, the only man God anointed, where God would hold his hand and keep him to be a light, a covenant, where his sinless blood would pay the penalty for all sins.
JESUS having been FILLED with the Holy Spirit and Power without measure was in the form of God. He however was also in the likeness of man because he had weak mortal flesh, and he went to the cross to die in the likeness of a sinful man. Jesus at anytime being in the form of God could have saved himself, he could have made bread from stones and fed himself, he could have taken himself down from the cross and not die, but he instead was a SERVANT, humbling himself, obeying God and not serving his own will.
t8, DON’T you GET IT???
As Daniel teaches us, it is God that raises up kings and makes them fall. God brings forth prosperity, wealth, and power, but man is vein, he is puffed up like the king of Babylon declaring himself as a god dwelling in the heavens, given no credit where credit is due. Jesus is the only man who emptied himself, he had all of God’s powers but he emptied himself making himself of no reputation, he emptied himself of his own will, he emptied himself declaring that he is NOTHING without God, nothing without God’s Spirit resting upon him. No such man before or after who were given far less from God had such a mind as Christ Jesus has. He had such a MIND that was different from all men because he is the only mortal man who God gave His Spirit to without measure, the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of the LORD. He is the only man where God elected him out of the people to direct all his ways.
Jesus is the man who was given all power being in the form of God and thus feeling equal to God, but he was likewise in the likeness of man having weak mortal flesh, tempted like all men, and though he was obedient, a servant to God, not using his form for his own gain, he received death as though he was a sinner.
To all……When we view Jesus as a human being just like we are, who God the Father, in his plan for “all” humanity, predestined and therefore foreknew and gave this man his HOLY SPIRIT, anointing him and perfecting him, with it , to the point of him actually laying his “only” life , he every had for us. You can easely see what a great sacrifice that really was. JESUS didn’t say “my God, my God have you forsaken me”, for no reason, or like a being that had a prexisting life of somekind before , he said it like a man who was loosing his “only” life he ever had.
When we see Jesus this way we can really come to see what a great sacrifice that was, and how much the Spirit of God the Father can do to also perfect us. It “all” boils down to the work of God in Jesus and in all and through all.
God the father is the only saviour, and we are saved through his sacrifice of his only “bogotten” human son, Jesus Christ, our lord, better yet our brother.
Carmel glad to hear you are digging deeper into scriptures, wish more here was doing the same, espically T8 and Anthony. Hope these debates are causing us all to dig deeper into scriptures.
Peace and love to you all and yours. ………gene
Hi Jodi
Yes Jodi God’s Only Begotten Son, your getting it. The Only. With His Father before creation. He has a Spiritual body in heaven (the Spiritual world ) that we can’t see yet till the resurrection, it’s invisible to us now.
May God save you 🙏
Hi Jodi,
YOU: OOPS t8, total error on your part,
JESUS is called God’s only begotten Son, there is NO scripture that speaks of some spirit as being God’s only begotten son whose NAME is JESUS,
ME:OOPS Jodi , total error on your part,
John1: 18 No man hath seen God at any time:
the only begotten Son
WHO IS
in the Bosom of the Father,
he hath declared him.
The above is the complete statement Jodi
Now John made it emphatically clear that
WHILE JESUS WAS ON EARTH
HE WAS ALSO
IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER! As much as the Father was in His Son JESUS as
A MAN on earth while He was also in heaven.
As you know THE FATHER IS A SPIRIT and the Father has a name
YAHWEH! Thus, Jesus His begotten Son is
ALSO A SPIRIT and
ALSO HAD/HAS A NAME
JESUS
So scripture speaks more than you CARNALLY THINK with regards
SOME SPIRIT AS BEING GOD’S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON AND WHOSE NAME IS
JESUS
So your conclusion HERE-UNDER are VOID and simply LIES!
YOU: there is NO scripture that speaks of some spirit as being God’s only begotten son whose NAME is JESUS,
Now read more scriptures regarding Jesus as
SPIRIT
THE FATHER’S SUBSTANCE:
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of
his (FATHER’S) glory (God the Father)
and the figure of
his (FATHER’S) substance (“THE WORD” the Son of Man)
and upholding all things by the word of his
(FATHER’S) power, (THE HOLY GHOST)
making purgation of sins, sitteth on the right hand of the majesty on high:
More scriptures:
Hebrews 10:5
Wherefore, when he( A PREEXISTED SPIRIT FROM THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER) cometh into the world he saith: Sacrifice and oblation thou wouldest not:
but a body thou hast fitted to me. (THE FATHER’S SUBSTANCE)
6Holocausts for sin did not please thee.
7Then said I: Behold I come: ( A MAN ON EARTH IN YOUR SUBSTANCE)
in the head of the book it is written of me:
that I should do thy will, O God. ( OFFER MY FLESH/YOUR SUBSTANCE AS A RANSOM SO YOU BE GOD AND SAVIOR)
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
HI Jodi,
YOU: preeminence -Proteuo
to be first, hold first place
Again Jodi, here is the full scripture:
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,
THAT IN ALL THINGS
he may hold the primacy:
Jodi the problem is your dishonesty of denying the
TRUTH of scriptures,
JESUS IS FIRST OF ALL THINGS
Answer WHEN ALL THINGS STARTED! to make it as clear as CRYSTAL!
When did Jesus became FIRST of the
VERY FIRST
THING
THE BIG BANG
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Anthony,
The one who is CALLED God’s only begotten Son is the mortal man Jesus of Nazareth.
Do you know any other mortal man who was begotten of God’s Spirit without measure? Do you know of any other man who said, “18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.”
We are told that the Holy Spirit came upon men giving them various gifts of the Spirit, the Spirit according to a measure, so that they could go out into the world, being not of this world as Jesus was not of this world, they were to preach, prophecy, heal, perform signs and miracles.
1 Corinthians 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy;
In comparison, the mortal Jesus of Nazareth, as was prophesied that would occur to the son of Jesse, he received ALL the gifts and Powers of God’s Spirit, he received Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of the LORD (Isaiah 11). He would be called to righteousness for to be a LIGHT. When the Spirit descended like a dove and abode upon him, never leaving him, directing all his ways, he became God’s only begotten Son, just as was also prophesied in Psalms 2, and the very reason why upon the Spirit descending upon Jesus of Nazareth God declared “THIS is my beloved Son“, as rightfully he was the ONLY MORTAL MAN to have God ALL in him.
Jesus DIED, but he was raised from the dead receiving life once more and the promised Holy Spirit that God had declared to David concerning the fruit of his loins. As also said, Jesus received the promise of the mercies of David that God had sworn to him with an oath.
Jesus went from being God’s only begotten Son to becoming a firstborn Son of eternal life of many brothers and sisters, as was also prophesied unto David that God would make his son into “His own firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth”, a king of kings and a lord of lords. Such was also of prophecy, where a MAN would receive dominion over all the works of God’s hands, glory that God had declared before the world was. Also that which was prophesied was of a man who would be bruised and put to grief unto death, but God would raise him up and give him a portion with the great and have him divide the spoil with the strong.
Anthony, it’s like you don’t know God’s word at all.
To All,
People KNEW Jesus was the Son of God, their Messiah, BECAUSE he was preaching God’s words with authority, because he was healing, because he was performing signs and miracles doing good deeds. They saw him as the prophesied son of David, son of Jesse, who God had promised He was going to anoint and send.
They saw him as God’s word spoken to the prophets as true in the flesh, where they witnessed him as being filled with grace and truth BECAUSE, God’s word spoken to Isaiah was TRUE, the Spirit had descended and abode upon him, the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and fear of the LORD.
Hi Carmel,
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
OOPS, it DOESN’T say that he SAW him it says he DECLARED him.
DECLARE — Exegeomai
to lead out, be leader, go before
metaph., to draw out in narrative, unfold a teaching
to recount, rehearse
to unfold, declare
the things relating to God
used in Greek writing of the interpretation of things sacred and divine, oracles, dreams, etc.HOW is Jesus ABLE to PREACH the Gospel of God?
Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
John 3:34 For he whom God hath speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
CARMEL, Jesus is quoting a prophecy concerning himself in regards to NOT a spirit coming to earth, but a human of the root of Jesse being sent out upon God resting His Spirit upon him. Remember, Jesus could do NOTHING of himself, God was leading him, directing all his ways, Jesus said, ” but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things”.
Isaiah 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. 13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
Jesus is a MAN who God raised up in righteousness, directing all his ways for to be a LIGHT. God says, regarding the one who He calls to righteousness, holding his hand and keeping him, for to be a LIGHT to all people, that He would not give His glory to another.
This is prophecy, there is no begotten Son that exists yet, there is no person God has called to righteousness yet to be of His image, there is no person who has the glory of being a LIGHT unto all people yet.
WHAT is TRUE is that GOD KNEW and was DELIGHTED in Jesus BEFORE he was conceived in the womb, He loved him before He was born. A MORTAL MAN God gives the full measure and power of his Spirit to, God perfects him by calling him to righteousness directing all his ways, and God through him BRINGS eternal life to mankind, of which God promised before the world was. God made all things through and for the man who SHED his blood who God raised from the dead making him the firstborn human of many humans with eternal life.
Hi Carmel,
CONTEXT,
Numbers 11:10 Then Moses heard the people weep throughout their families, every man in the door of his tent: and the anger of the LORD was kindled greatly; Moses also was displeased. 11 And Moses said unto the LORD, Wherefore hast thou afflicted thy servant? and wherefore have I not found favour in thy sight, that thou layest the burden of all this people upon me? 12 Have I conceived all this people? have I begotten them, that thou shouldest say unto me, Carry them in thy bosom, as a nursing father beareth the sucking child, unto the land which thou swarest unto their fathers?
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
HOW is JESUS in the bosom of the Father?
Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Isaiah 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them,When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her,Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God.
Jesus is the Son of God, in the bosom of God, because he is being taught by God as a Father hold’s the hand of His child and teaches him, directs all his ways, for God is all in him.
When Jesus returns and puts all things under him, God will be all in all. God will be directing all the ways of every man through His Spirit, no longer just Jesus, we will all be fully taught by God. Such is why YHWH is the Father of Jesus and is said to be our Father.
The son of David is a Son of God ACCORDING to the Spirit.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Hi Carmel,
YOU:JESUS IS FIRST OF ALL THINGS
YES Jesus, the Son of Man who God was mindful of and visited and crowned with glory was given dominion over all things. The firstborn of the dead of many brethren was given FIRST place, he received the inheritance of a firstborn Son. As prophesied God would give it to David’s seed. As was also prophesied the man who shed his blood God would give him a portion with the great, and he was given authority to divide the spoil with the strong.
Carmel, the NAME JESUS is given to a human born from the womb of Mary. The NAME of JESUS is according to prophecy, not pre-existing. The name Jesus means, God is Salvation, and in prophecy God would bring us salvation through David’s son, through resting His Spirit upon the root of Jesse, calling him to righteousness.
Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will. 23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his PROMISE raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Carmel, JESUS is our savior ACCORDING to a promise, not according to pre-existing. JESUS is our savior because he is the seed of David to which the promise was made.
Carmel….Your adding so many things to our text that are not written, your making up things as you go along, trying to force the texts to say what you want them to say, at the expense of all other scriptures that clearly show you are wrong.
You shouldn’t add word meanings to scriptures that are not there, no where does it say Jesus ever literally saw God, he “declared” him to us. Big difference. If what you say doesn’t fit the rest of our scriptures , then you simply misrepresenting the truth. You should be careful of what you say, because we will all be held accountable for what we say.
I know the truth were giving you is distressing you, but you need to seriously consider it and if it is not being presented right then it’s your obligation to show us where it is wrong, and if it’s not wrong then you should simply except it as true, even if it goes against you long held belifs. Thats what growth is all about. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
TO ALL,
Romans 1: 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
God’s Son, Jesus the Anointed was made OF (out of, FROM) the seed of David according to the flesh.
People on this forum however don’t believe this clear God given word from Paul, they say that Jesus the seed of David according to the flesh was made OF (out of, FROM) a pre-existing anointed spirit son. THIS is backwards and FALSE.
God’s Son was made OF (out of, FROM) the seed of David according to the flesh. As Paul says this was a promise to come of which the prophets spoke about.
The prophet David said that God was going to take his son and make him His own Son.
The prophet Isaiah said God was going to take the son of Jesse and rest His Spirit Spirit upon him, an ANOINTING and SEND him out into the world.
When that Spirit came to abode on Jesus descending like a dove, God declared “This is my beloved Son“, and it was THEN that THIS Son made OF (out of, FROM) the seed of David was SENT out into the world.
IT IS CLEARLY WRITTEN by the apostle Paul who was given God’s Spirit to declare the Gospel that was spoken also long ago by the prophets. God’s Son CAME from a promise, God’s Son came out of the seed of David according to the flesh and is declared a Son ACCORDING to God’s Spirit.
Continued..
We have many passages in the OT giving the prophecy of God’s promise that was of good news, glad tidings, concerning the seed of David according to the flesh.
The prophet David speaks of this promise in Psalms 89. There is NO promise of God taking an anointed spirit and making him into a man of flesh. From a man of flesh God was going to make a Son, a master and The Christ.
We have God giving an oath to David.
We have God swearing to David that God will establish his seed forever, and build up David’s throne to all generations.
We have God laying help on one who is mighty, God exalting one who He has CHOSEN from OUT OF THE PEOPLE.
We have a man anointed, crying to God calling him his Father, and God saying that He would MAKE him His firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
We have the questions, did God make all men in vain? What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? Shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave?
Psalm 89:1 I will sing of the mercies of the LORD for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations. 2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens. 3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, 4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah. 5 And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O LORD: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints. 6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD? 7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him. 8 O LORD God of hosts, who is a strong LORD like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee? 9 Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them. 10 Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm. 11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them. 12 The north and the south thou hast created them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name. 13 Thou hast a mighty arm: strong is thy hand, and high is thy right hand. 14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face. 15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance. 16 In thy name shall they rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted. 17 For thou art the glory of their strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted. 18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king. 19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people. 20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him: 21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. 22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him. 23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. 24 But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him. 29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven. 30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; 31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; 32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. 33 Nevertheless my loving kindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. 34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. 35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. 36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. 37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah. 38 But thou hast cast off and abhorred, thou hast been wroth with thine anointed. 39 Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown by casting it to the ground. 40 Thou hast broken down all his hedges; thou hast brought his strong holds to ruin. 41 All that pass by the way spoil him: he is a reproach to his neighbours. 42 Thou hast set up the right hand of his adversaries; thou hast made all his enemies to rejoice. 43 Thou hast also turned the edge of his sword, and hast not made him to stand in the battle. 44 Thou hast made his glory to cease, and cast his throne down to the ground. 45 The days of his youth hast thou shortened: thou hast covered him with shame. Selah. 46 How long, LORD? wilt thou hide thyself for ever? shall thy wrath burn like fire? 47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain? 48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah. 49 Lord, where are thy former loving kindnesses, which thou swarest unto David in thy truth? 50 Remember, Lord, the reproach of thy servants; how I do bear in my bosom the reproach of all the mighty people; 51 Wherewith thine enemies have reproached, O LORD; wherewith they have reproached the footsteps of thine anointed. 52 Blessed be the LORD for evermore. Amen, and Amen.
Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man’s seed hath God ACCORDING TO HIS PROMISE raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the PROMISE which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Jesus was raised from the dead RECEIVING the sure mercies that God had promised to David concerning David’s son. Jesus is an eternal king having dominion over all because of a promise God made concerning David’s son BEFORE the WORLD WAS, NOT because he pre-existed as God’s anointed spirit son before the world was.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and HAVING RECEIVED of the Father the PROMISE of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
GOD MADE the seed of David a master and The Anointed, of which is according to prophecy according to a promise.
God did not take a master anointed spirit and make him into the seed of David.
OF, (out of FROM) the seed of David according to the flesh God made a Son, a master and The Christ.
Concerning the son of Jesse,
1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the judge of quick and dead.
God ANOINTED the son of David and SENT him out. God raised the son of David from the dead and ordained him a master to judge the quick and the dead.
The Son of Man Jesus, is a MASTER just as he is considered God’s Son, ACCORDING to God’s Spirit resting upon him, NOT because he pre-existed.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Hi Jodi,
YOU: Hi Carmel,
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
OOPS, it DOESN’T say that he SAW him it says he DECLARED him.
OOPS, READ AND ACCEPT THE TRUTH:
John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father:
but he ( JESUS) who is of God, (preexisted)
he(Jesus) hath seen the Father.
Now read again
John1:18 No man hath seen God at any time;
the only begotten Son, ( SAW GOD, PREEXISTED IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER)
, who is ( PRESENT tense Jodi, while Jesus was on earth, He was also in heaven)
in the bosom of the Father,( as much as the Father was in Jesus on earth, and was also in heaven: I am in the Father and the Father in me! eternally that state!)
he ( GOD THE FATHER) hath declared him. (JESUS, HIS SON)
Now read:
Matthew 3:17 And behold a voice from heaven saying:
This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
ok Jodi!
God the Father declared that Jesus is His Son! More to read:
John 8:12 Again therefore, Jesus spoke to: them, saying:
I am the light of the world. He that followeth me walketh not in darkness, but shall have the light of life. 13The Pharisees therefore said to him:
Thou givest testimony of thyself. Thy testimony is not true.
14Jesus answered and said to them: Although I give testimony of myself, my testimony is true:
for I know whence I came ( PREEXISTED, FROM GOD, FROM THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER)
and whither I go.
15You judge according to the flesh: I judge not any man. 16And if I do judge, my judgment is true:
because I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. ( TWO IN JESUS’ FLESH EMBODIMENT “THE WORD”)
17And in your law it is written that the testimony of
two men is true.
18I am one that give testimony of myself:
and the Father that sent me giveth testimony of me. ( AT THE RIVER JORDAN, AND ON MOUNT TABOR)
John5:36 But I have
a greater testimony than that of John:
for the works which the Father hath given me to perfect, the works themselves which I do,
give testimony of me,
that the Father hath sent me. (PREEXISTED IN THE FATHER’S BOSOM)
37And the Father himself who hath sent me hath given testimony of me:
neither have you heard his voice at any time,
nor seen his shape.
Jodi Jesus didn’t declare His Father
JESUS REVEALED HIS FATHER IN HIMSELF AS MAN!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Carmel,
Jesus DECLARES God in John 1:18 he doesn’t speak of seeing him with his eyes. He speaks of declaring him by knowing him.
John 8:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him,Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
So what does Jesus teach in the above passages.
No one knew God, no one could see God UNTIL God’s only begotten son JESUS, DECLARED him. Our heavenly Father our one True God was in JESUS, and Jesus was in God.
Jesus does nothing of himself, it is through God dwelling in him.
CARMEL, I will TELL YOU AGAIN,
Jesus is ABLE to DECLARE God and bring people to know Him and see Him, BECAUSE Jesus was BORN of the Spirit, the Spirit descended upon him and came to REST UPON him, the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of the LORD. By this Spirit resting upon him JESUS calls it an ANOINTING which means Chrio becoming CHRISTOS -CHRIST!! He is then sent out because of God’s Spirit being IN him, TO PREACH, to DECLARE GOD, to DO GOD’s WORKS.
Carmel, Jesus is speaking God’s words as God’s messenger.
Jesus is performing God’s deeds as God’s messenger. Through Jesus they know the works of God, they hear God and see who God is. Jesus knows God and sees him because God is all in him through His Spirit resting upon him without measure.
No scripture, no words from Jesus or any apostle tell us that Jesus pre-existed and by such he saw God. No scripture says that Jesus was able to declare God because he pre-existed.
Carmel,
Jesus knows where he came as it is written in prophecy, and Jesus likewise quotes that prophecy (Isaiah 61, Luke 4). Jesus, the Son of Man came from God, he was born of God’s Spirit and then God SENT him out into the world.
The Son of Man was SENT to save that which was lost, for God called him to righteousness, held his hand, and kept him (God kept him in His bosom as a Father holding him by His Spirit directing all his ways) for to be a covenant, a LIGHT to all people.
Hi Carmel,
Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
I John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Seriously Carmel you and others cannot connect simple dots that are given in God’s word.You and others have serious blindness.
Isaiah 42 begin, Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
The Spirit comes to rest upon a human, God says that He made man and gave him a spirit to walk therein, and then He says He has called this human to righteousness for to be a light.
Jesus says he needs to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness, and when he rises up out of the water the Spirit descends upon him, and God declares that “This is my beloved Son”. We are told that those who are righteous have been born of God, they cannot sin. Jesus is called to righteousness for to be a LIGHT. Those who are righteous are the Sons of God. John 1 spoke prior in the chapter about this man being a LIGHT, and John was for to be a witness to this LIGHT.
John 1 is all about prophecy. God’s Word that was before the world was, that God later revealed to the prophets, was made true in the flesh of Jesus. The LIGHT God promised to send into the world became true in the Son of Man Jesus of Nazareth.
The dots are so visible unless you are ignorant of scripture or totally blinded by false doctrine.
Seriously you are told, the Son of Man Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of Abraham, Jesse, and David left the river Jordan having been FILLED with the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Wisdom and Understanding as was prophesied, which thus would make him full of GRACE and TRUTH, God’s word made true in the flesh and people beheld his glory. God’s Son according to having God be all in him having anointed him with God’s Spirit. The people didn’t behold the glory of an anointed spirit son becoming a human, they beheld the glory of the man who had God’s Spirit descend upon, an anointing so that he could preach, heal, bring good tidings, perform signs and miracles, deliver captives.
There is NO sending of a pre-existing only begotten Son in scripture, there is JESUS the Son of Man who was sent to save that which was lost, there is Jesus the Son of Man who God rested His Spirit upon him, and THEN declared him to be His Son and then we see him being SENT out into the world.
Carmel…..your not even reading what Jodi and I are clearly showing you, words that are very clearly written in our scriptures. Your going down the wide way that leads to destruction, like most all Christendom is. As I have said, you are adding words and therefore meaning to our text, trying to force them to say thing they don’t say, which only shows how blind your really are to the truth.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi t8,
You are not making sense at all.
YOU:
Jodi, nothing you have ever said about God’s plans disproves the scriptures that state that he is the Christ and that he had glory with the Father before the cosmos.
Case closed.
If God says he will send his son into the world for example, that would in no way mean he didn’t send his son into the world just because God revealed he would do it.
And if God made the cosmos through the son, that in no way means that he is talking about a future event. In that event, it would say that God will make the new cosmos through the son just like it says that all things will be made subject to God through Christ.
ME: the scriptures that state that “he” is the Christ and that “he” had glory with the Father before the cosmos.
The “he” who is called Christ is JESUS of Nazareth. The “he” who asked God for glory WAS JESUS of Nazareth the Son of Man.
the word “WITH” is PARA meaning of, with, from. The Son of Man who was SPEAKING to GOD was asking for the glory that the Son of Man had OF God before the world was.
t8 READ what is SAID prior so you can have CONTEXT,
FIRST don’t forget that Jesus said that he was the SON OF MAN WHO WAS SENT to SAVE that which was LOST.
Don’t forget that Jesus quoted Isaiah concerning himself how he was ANOINTED and SENT TO preach (declare God and His coming kingdom), heal, deliver captives. Jesus of Nazareth was ANOINTED and SENT TO fulfill God’s will, make God KNOWN, glorify God to the people as he made no reputation of himself but said he could do nothing of himself.
Don’t forget that God promised eternal life to mankind before the world was.
Don’t forget that it is the Son of Man, the Son of Jesse who God said He would call to righteousness for to be a LIGHT to all people.
Don’t forget that Jesus said, “but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed”.
Don’t forget that God PROMISED He was going to be mindful of a MAN, visit him, and give him, this MAN, dominion over all the works of His hands.
Don’t forget that Paul TELLS you DIRECTLY that the Son of God was MADE OF (out of, FROM) the seed of David declared a Son according to God’s Spirit, just as God had promised, just as David the prophet spoke. NOT The seed of David was made out of an anointed spirit son, such is a directly falsehood against the apostle Paul, a LIE against God’s word.
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
t8, it is the man that was prophesied to come who is speaking in John 17. God KNEW Jesus before he was born, God delighted in the man Jesus before he was born. God KNEW and delighted in him before God created all things. When God said in Genesis 3, LET THERE BE LIGHT, God spoke those words having JESUS in Him, God was making all things through whom He KNEW and DELIGHTED IN, as God declared the END from the beginning.
When God said let there be LIGHT, the Son of Man JESUS was in God and God was well pleased, for God KNEW of the man who He would call to righteousness, hold his hand, keep him (as a father holds a son in his bosom). For God knew of the man that God would make FOR to be a LIGHT unto all things that God was creating. God was created all things through and for the man that would BRING LIFE, as God knew first there would be sin and death.
What is the GLORY that the Son of Man received? Jesus DIDN’T go back to being a one of a kind Son, He became the firstborn of the dead of many brothers and sisters. He received the glory that God had promised to the Son of Man in Psalm 8, Isaiah 53, 2 Samuel 7.
t8, if God declared the END from the beginning, and the end is a Son of Man with eternal life having dominion over all, THEN that would be the glory that was OF God before the world was that Jesus was asking for.
Jesus raised in glory, raised in power, raised incorruptible went to teach before he ascended as the Son of Man sitting at God’s right hand. That which he taught according to scripture according to Jesus own words was that which the prophets spoke concerning him. He didn’t go teach that he went back to his former glory, he didn’t go preach that he pre-existed. He taught his disciples that which the prophets spoke.
2 Samuel 7:12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son.
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
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