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T8…..if you ask do fish live in water yes/no ? No problem, but if you take a scripture you don’t rightly understand to try to entrap a person to yo u r way of thinking, that’s a whole different set of values, one works because everyone agrees withthe wording,no hidden meanings involved. But if one uses words that “clearly” can be taken differently and the general construct is applied differently, as both me and Jodi has shown you, not just from the meaning of the word itself, but what overall scriptures imply. Then yes you are using your yes/no to push your own view points, which are not correct.
So the only way we can answer youŕ yes/no question is both yes and no, yes it does say “through” but no it does not mean he did it “through” Jesus as a preexisting being goes, it means he did it in view of the future man Jesus, and the rest of those chosen ones. That is why God made the creation in the first place for all saved humanity.
I believe you down right know that, so you are being deceptive to force your own conclusions, even though they are not true to scripture intent.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
It is humorous to think that writing volumes to debunk a simple clear verse is going to convince anyone not to believe.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Amen!
Hi T8,
What is not humorous is to see someone like you who wants to ignore scriptures and at the same time say that they know the truth of scripture.
THREE passages t8, can you discuss them?
Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man’s seed hath God ACCORDING to his PROMISE raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. 6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Discussion, scripture tells us that a savior was promised to come a long time ago and that he would come FROM the seed of Jesse and David. This Son of Man does all things through the Spirit of God that rests upon him, why we hear Jesus say that he could do nothing of himself and that he, as the Son of Man, CAME to save that which was lost.
Yes, he came in the flesh. These scriptures you quote do not debunk that Jesus was the Christ in the City of David.
Back to the drawing board Jodi.
Hi t8,
YOU: Yes, he came in the flesh. These scriptures you quote do not debunk that Jesus was the Christ in the City of David.
ME: Of course Jesus was the Christ in Jerusalem, he was the Christ for the entire world, I am not trying to debunk that Jesus was not the Christ in Jerusalem.
I suppose you meant to say Jesus was the Christ in the City of David upon his birth, and I am trying to debunk that, right?
t8,
I believe when Jesus was born, that our promised savior was indeed born, our promised Messiah was indeed born, that our promised eternal king was indeed born, that the firstborn of the dead God’s promised firstborn of the seed of David was indeed born, that our promised Son of God of the seed of David was indeed born, that our promised High Priest was indeed born, that our promised judge of the quick and the dead was indeed born.
Good Morning All,
WORDS that one speaks whether they be many or few should not be a point of concern, it is whether or not the words spoken are true in the light of God’s word.
Acts 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. ..9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. 10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: 11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 12 And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness….14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Acts 13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
Acts 10:36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) 37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Psalm 8:4 What is man (enowsh -mortal man), that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man (Adam -human), that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.Luke 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. 15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. 16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
According to these passages the Messiah didn’t come until after the baptism John had preached, he wasn’t SENT until after the Spirit descended upon him like a dove, and he is said to have been anointed after the baptism John had preached.
The angel was correct,
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
The angel speaks to Mary that she is going to conceive, that she is going to conceive the son of David of prophecy. This son of Mary, son of David is our eternal king, he is our Christ, he is our savior, he is our high priest, he is God’s Son, he is God’s firstborn of many brethren.
Indeed the child that the angel says that Mary is to conceive is the person of God’s many promises that had been given to us by the prophets.
God had promised a Messiah, this child is that Messiah. God had given to the prophets details about this Messiah about this coming son of David, the angel speaks DIRECTLY of those details from prophecy, as the angel says, he would reign over the house of Jacob for ever. The angel also says that the child SHALL BE great and that he SHALL BE called the Son of the Highest.
Luke 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
The angel once again speaks concerning prophecy, the angel speaks of God’s promise, His oath to Abraham that through Abraham’s seed all nations would be blessed. The angel tells the shepherds that born this day is a savior, which is Christ the Master.
This is not just any savior, this is the savior of God’s promises, this is the Christ and the master according to God’s promises, of which the prophets gave us many details of.
DETAILS that the prophets gave,
The Messiah our master was promised to come being of a certain kind of FLESH that God had made, a MAN, an Adam (HUMAN) a ENOWSH (mortal man). The Messiah would come being chosen out of the people, not just any people but of the stock of the seed of Abraham, of Jesse, of David.
BEGINNING in Galilee after Jesus was baptized and anointed, the word of God was being spoken by the anointed Jesus, Jesus began to preach God’s Gospel, he began to perform signs and miracles, healing the sick and even raising the dead, having been filled with the Holy Spirit and powers of God AT the river Jordan. THIS was the Son of Man that had come to save the lost, he was ANOINTED and SENT coming to the people as a MAN in the FLESH. He was being FULLY led by God’s Spirit so that he would follow God’s will without failing, never once giving in to his own desires, his own will. Those that are LED by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God, and Jesus was the ONLY MORTAL MAN that had been begotten by God filled with grace and truth as God rested His Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, of Council and Might upon him. This son of Jesse was the ONLY man who God called to righteousness where God would hold his hand and keep him for a covenant for Israel, even be a light to the Gentiles. This is God’s word made TRUE in the flesh of the son of Jesse. ALL OF WHICH was IN God before the world was made, In God’s word before the world existed WAS this Son of Man who would come to save that which would be lost.
God made man in His image, He made man to have dominion over all his works. The one who shed his blood and was resurrected is the image and glory of God, and we are to be made into that same image, because as Jesus is an heir of God we are joint heirs with him in being also an heir of God.
Hi t8,
“he” that CAME in the flesh to the people, came to the people we are told beginning in Galilee, and “he” we are told was SENT to the people because the Spirit was upon him because he had been ANOINTED to preach God word, deliver captives, heal..
You t8 change who the “he” is.
The “he” is Jesus who was anointed and sent out where beginning in Galilee people witnessed his glory, fame began to spread of him, as he had been anointed with the fullness of the Holy Spirit and power of God, able to preach God’s words, and perform signs and miracles, being full of grace and truth.
Edj…..It sure does say “shall” be called, your problem is not know when the shall be took place, as Jodi and I have clearly shown you, it was when the word of God said, after Jesus’ recieved the anointing Spirit of God on him, and the voice from God said “this is my “son” , hear you him”.
We also must be Born again from above by the spirit of our heavenly Father so his seed can also be in us,and we also become Sons and heirs of God. Just that simple, to bad you don’t seem to understand it. “you must be born again ” that applied to the man Jesus, just as it applies to us. If we have not been born from above, we are simply none of his.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
You t8 change who the “he” is.
The “he” is Jesus
Your not making any sense. I do not say it isn’t Jesus. Wrong again Jodi. Why do you and Gene nearly always get what we say and believe wrong. Could it be an influence on your mind by some kind of spirit perhaps?
This is the opening statement in this topic. It is as pertinent as ever.
This topic is really about exposing the Spirit of Error. While we know that the Trinity Doctrine is of the spirit of error, so it is with other doctrines that lie about who Jesus really is.
It seems the Spirit of error is still hard at work some 100 or more pages later.
T8…..You change “the man Jesus” to being the “word of God” that is a big change. , we preach Jesus as a man, just like us, born of a women, comming into his “only” existence, as we did, through a birth process of a women. You on the other hand say he “preexisted” as the “word” God used to make every thing “through” and was “morphed” somehow, into the egg of a women. You believe God and his word are different beings, we believe God and his word are one AND THE SAME.
T8….. Yes we do have a different spirit, the “spirit of truth”. Maybe you need to consider what spirit is guiding you, it could be the “spirit of error” . Because you believe Jesus preexisted before his birth on this earth as the word. In fact it’s had to know what you people believe because you all differ from one another, haven’t you noticed me and Jodi say the same things over and over. Being accused of saying the same thing over and over, why? Because the truth dosen’t change, it’s the same yesterday and today.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
It is clearly written Gene, that The Word became flesh and when Jesus returns, His name is the Word of God. I simply believe the scriptures.
t8, YES it is clearly written that the word became flesh. God’s word was of a man being anointed and that became true in the flesh of Jesus.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
t8, was it NOT God’s WORD of Isaiah 11, 42, and 61 that spoke of an anointing, that spoke of a man being filled with grace and truth, the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, a glory that God said that He would not give to any other?
Did Jesus not say WHEN he was anointed, WHEN he was SENT? As previously stated, God’s Gospel BEGAN in Galilee, multiple scriptures speak of Jesus Christ COMING AFTER the baptism of John. People were witness of Jesus in his glory healing and speaking God’s word AFTER the river Jordan.
If you cannot read John 1 and the prophecies of Isaiah and see the direct connections, you are blind.
t8, after the Spirit descended like a dove on Jesus it is said that he was full of the Holy Spirit and power, such was a prophecy, and THEN we are given the account of that prophecy having been MADE TRUE in the flesh. This seriously should be completely obvious. It is TRUE!!
God’s WORD spoken by the prophets became TRUE/fulfilled in the FLESH of Jesus. YOU CANNOT deny this, or else you have serious problems.
T8…..We are offering you true perception of scriptures and the proper context they are given, Jesus “will be” or can be “called” the word of God, not because he “is” The word of God “himself”, but because he speaks God the Fathers “words” to us, so in that context he will be called the words of God, Jesus also is the word of God “fulfilled” in the flesh as Jodi says. But, “Mystery Religion”, wants you to believe the “man” Jesus “himself” actually “is” God’s word, as in a seperate being from God called ‘the word”, nothing could be further from the truth then that.
Jesus said plainly and clearly the words he was telling us, we’re “not”, his words, but the words of him who sent him, question is do you believe him T8? , or believe what these decieved teachers here are saying?
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
T8…..We are offering you true perception of scriptures
Hi Gene,
How can you be if you don’t have “Free Will” ?
Hi Gene,
”The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest
shall overshadow thee:therefore also that holy thing which shall
be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” (Luke 1:35)”fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife:
for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit” (Matt 1:20)Does the bible say Jesus is God’s son because of his conception of the HolySpirit? “Yes” or “No”?
____________
God bless
Ed JYes or No ?
Gene you are rambling again.
The Word became flesh. God created all things through the Word.
Jesus Christ came in the flesh. God created all things through the son of God.
And his name is the Word of God. He was with God in the beginning and he is now in the glory that he had with God before the cosmos.
For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
As for Ed J’s comment about gene not believing in free will. Well, he must think that our choices are programmed, thus the debate here is two automatic programs posting different sides of a debate that neither can believe unless they are programmed to do so. Your view of everything Gene is folly in my view. You just seem to take an opposite view of things in the Bible. But I am here to tell you today that you are responsible for what you believe and teach because it is your own doing. You steer your own boat.
t8, was it NOT God’s WORD of Isaiah 11, 42, and 61 that spoke of an anointing, that spoke of a man being filled with grace and truth, the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, a glory that God said that He would not give to any other
Isaiah 42:8 I the Lord, this is my name: I will not give my glory to another, nor my praise to graven things.
Jodi, above is the scripture by which you are convinced that Jesus is AN EARTHLY MAN, NOT DIVINE.
God said: I WILL NOT GIVE
MY GLORY to another.
Hence it is clear that God is referring to HIS GLORY, not to A GLORY as you twisted!
Then He asserted and said:
TO ANOTHER!
Thus since it is HIS GLORY, and He was not ready to give it to ANOTHER,
BUT HE DEFINITELY GAVE IT JESUS, and since God was not ready to give it to ANOTHER, and gave it to Jesus ,
He consequently gave it TO HIMSELF, IN JESUS A DIVINE BEING,
NOW if God gave it to JESUS, A DIVINE BEING, THERE IS NO DOUBT AT ALL THAT
“THE WORD” Jesus, the Son of Man, Jesus’ flesh body, is in the
GLORY OF GOD IN
OUR LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST!
God concluded and said:
nor my praise to graven things.
WHO IN YOUR UNDERSTANDING ARE
THE GRAVEN THINGS?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
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