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Gene,
You: THE “LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD”…….has nothing to do with Jesus, where do you get that from. But it does prove a point about what you falsely believe, you believe the UPPER CASE LORD, there means Jesus. The word LORD there is in the hebrew text (adonia) means ALMIGHTY GOD, you falsely use the term as (adoni) lower case lord , which mean a human ruler or judge. JESUS IS NOT ALMIGHTY GOD, as you falsely assume. HE PLAINEY SAI HE WAS A SON OF MAN, SAYING “that they might know “YOU” the “ONLY” “TRUE” GOD, “AND” Jesus whom you have sent.
Me: We went over this in detail before. But I will give a short version of it here.
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him (me: the Father) that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Me: Both the mind of God and the spirit of God are one person, God.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Isa 10:16 Therefore shall the Lord (adonai), YHWH of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire.
Gen 15:2 And Abram said, Lord (adonai) YHWH, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
Psalm 16:2 O my soul, thou hast said unto YHWH, Thou art my Lord (Adonai) : my goodness extendeth not to thee.
Me: Depending on text, Adonai can and does refer to the almighty and secondarily to men leaders.
Psalm 110:1 A Psalm of David. YHWH said unto my Lord (Adonai) Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Me: The Messiah is our God through the holy spirit. Yes, Adonai can mean a human ruler. But as I have shown you just now, Adonai can emphasize the Lordship of God and is the spirit of God.
New Testament:
Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord (Kurios) God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.Rev 19:16 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord (Kurios) God omnipotent reigneth.
Rev 16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord (Kurios) God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
You: I see no word there saying Jesus is the God being refered to there, did you throw those scriptures out of you bibles?
Me: Totally false as I have just shown you. You do not see a lot of things.
Gene:
You: We believe this, ” but unto us ( the true believers), there is “ONE” GOD, and “ONE” MEDIATOR between men and GOD, the “MAN” Jesus Christ.
Me: Again:
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Me: The body and soul of the Messiah had died. His soul was of the seed of David. The holy spirit or Word in him had not died.
Isa 11:2 And the spirit (Eph 4:4: one spirit) of the YHWH shall rest upon him, the spirit of (1) wisdom and (2) understanding, (3) the spirit of counsel and (4) might, the (5) spirit of knowledge and of the (6) fear (reverence and awe) of the YHWH;
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the (7) seed (of the nature or soul) of Abraham.
Me: There are six aspects of the holy spirit in Isa 11:2.
Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Me: The seventh aspect of the spirit is the soul of the Messiah. We don’t need a body to be alive with the Lord. His spirit gives ours souls life. Neither does the Word need a body to live.
This seventh aspect in the Spirit or Word of God above is the man or soul of God which is the mediator part of the holy spirit.
I have noticed that many people in this discussion change biblical texts into something thing they want them to say rather than what they actually say. It seems some kind of special Revelation is needed.
At the end of the day God allows us to do that to his inspired words, but it is not going to end well for those who lay stumbling blocks. They will be responsible for all that stumble because of their works. God judges all that rises up against him and his truth.
Do not play with fire.
Hi TC,
YOU:
Duet 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
So tell me, who is YHWH one with here? How could the Messiah learn obedience if he did not have his own thoughts like you say.
ME: WHAT??
First, Duet 6:4 is talking about our Heavenly Father He is ONE LORD, ONE master of all masters.
Second, Our Heavenly Father who is master over all, MADE the Son of Man a master over all creation.
Third, what on earth are you talking about “he did not have his own thoughts like I say???
THAT IS THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what I HAVE SAID.
So let me make it clear again,
I have spoken saying that Jesus has his own will, which equates to that he had his own thoughts, of which he denied in order to be obedient to God. His thoughts were for God to “take this cup” away from him, but he followed God’s will instead of his own.
You Quote me:
Duet 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
So tell me, who is YHWH one with here? How could the Messiah learn obedience if he did not have his own thoughts like you say.You: WHAT??
First, Duet 6:4 is talking about our Heavenly Father He is, ONE master of all mastersMe: No it is definitively not. Show me the verses which reinforce that. Instead, here is the reinforcement.
Duet 6:4 Hear, O Israel: YHWH our God is one YHWH
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/deuteronomy/6-4.htm
The correct translation in Duet 6:4 is YHWH and not LORD
:
John 10:30 I and my Father are ONE.John 14:7 IF YOU HAVE KNOWN ME YOU HAVE KNOWN THE FATHER ALSO and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him…10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Me: The Father and son comprise one person, not two. The soul (humanity) of the Messiah is in the spirit of God, that spirit being the Messiah. It is of the seven spirits of the one spirit. That one spirit is in the mind of God (Eph 4:23) and that mind of God is in the spirit (Romans 8:27). Christ is that spirit (2 Cor 3:17).
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/11-34.htm
Young’s Literal Translation
Romans 11:34 for who did know the mind of the Lord (Kurios)? or who did become His counsellor?Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit (Romans 11:34), because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Me: So, the Father is the mind of God. The Messiah is the spirit of God. Together they are one God. The mind can act humanly or as God. The Messiah was not a separate entity from God.
Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
New American Standard Bible
1 Cor 15:28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.Me: God will rule through Christ as a man as of one of one of the seven spirits (Rev 5:6) until all is put under his feet. Then God will be all in all.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Me: God is one God, not two.
You: So let me make it clear again,
I have spoken saying that Jesus has his own will, which equates to that he had his own thoughts, of which he denied in order to be obedient to God. His thoughts were for God to “take this cup” away from him, but he followed God’s will instead of his own.Me: No, The father’s thoughts are the son’s thoughts. God was thinking as a man when we he called upon his Father to help him.
Hos 13:4 Yet I am YHWH thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is NO SAVIOUR BESIDES ME.
TC……There are two words in Hebrew with different meanings, for lord, one is upper case “LORD” ( adonai) means, GOD ALMIGHTY , The other is lower case lord (adon) meaning a “human” rulers, as a human king, Judge, Governors, etc.
Plsam 110:1…..THE LORD (adonai) (Yahweh, the almighty God) , said unto my lord (adon) a human ruler, judge, govenor, sit at my side until I (Yahweh) make your enimies your footstool.
That is “exactly” what that scripture says, you come and leave out part of it, and insert you own meanings , of the words, trying to make Jesus the exact person as God the Father is pure garabage. It is just another atempt to seperate Jesus from his human root and his distinction from God the Father and from the rest of his human brothers and sisters.
Your are very bold not even afraid to change and leave out parts of our text to say what in fact they don’t even hint at, to meet your own conclusions.
Jesus christ is not one of seven spirits of God, as you say, why? , because in revelation it clearly show the lamb (Jesus ) of God that has all seven spirits “on” him, as it “clearly” says. Jesus is not a spirit being, he is a human being a living soul exactly as we are. Who has the seven spirits and the seven horns (powers) of God on him.
If you can’t see Jesus as a “human being” and a completely different individual then GOD the Father, you haven’t even began to see the truth of scriptures yet. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
You: The seed of David, 100% David’s son, 100% a Son of Man, was on a certain DAY BORN of God’s Spirit, becoming a Son of God.
Equivalently the seed of David, 100% GOD’s son, 100% a Son of GOD, was on a certain DAY BORN of God’s Spirit, becoming a
Son of God/SON OF MAN.
John 10:35 Do you say of him whom the Father hath sanctified and sent INTO the world: Thou blasphemest; because I said:
I am the Son of God?
Now this you have to get into your mind Jodi!
NOTHING OF EARTH.
Whether you believe it or not.
Satan, as an angel Lucifer believed in your corrupted wisdom Jodi, that
it would not be possible for God to become a man on earth, ONCE HE /SATAN OCCUPIES THE FIRST HUMAN SOULS/CREATURES IN ADAM AND EVE ON EARTH, simply as through sex, sin, and death, Satan’s assets, he would be in every soul. the generations of EARTH, DEMONS IN FLESH,
WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE SELECT, the generations of HEAVEN ANGELS IN FLESH OF WHICH DAVID WAS ONE RELATED TO THE GENEALOGY OF
Mary/Jesus.
FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING FOR GOD! He could have come down from heaven like a meteorite!
THE SPIRIT “ THE WORD” Jesus to be, the Son of Man to be, GIVES LIFE TO ALL, throughout the entire process of the world! Though slain like a lamb from the beginning of the world.
You, Jodi, are 100% spirit, 100% soul and 100% flesh!
From the above, it comes up to:
200% spirit and 100% flesh.
That 100% flesh is SPIRIT but corrupted through sin by Eve, and through her by Adam.
Obvious this applies also to
MAN’S SPERM!
With your conclusions, you are saying that David was 300% flesh: MADNESS!
YOU: Not a one of a kind human/god was made in the womb of Mary that was part David but more part God. That is just made up garbage,
Now Is it made-up garbage when I said that as son of David from your perception, Jesus’ SEED was/is MORE of God than of DAVID.
SINCE DAVID WAS
200% SPIRIT and 100% FLESH?
Jodi,
It’s no use producing tons of scriptures WHERE through your CARNAL MIND, you see only ONE TRUTH in a PARTICULAR way, of “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, who in respect of the above is
300% SPIRIT for sure! in THE FATHER, “THE WORD” and THE HOLY GHOST.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest
any man cheats you
by philosophy and vain deceit: according to the tradition of men
according to the elements of the world and
not according to Christ. ( spiritual)
9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of
the Godhead corporeally.
DESPITE IN FLESH A SON OF DAVID, but
Definitely not only CARNAL as humans in general, spiritually dead, the way you see things!
Jesus, the Son of Man!
CAME OR SENT INTO THE WORLD, not IN the world as you CORRUPTLY preach.
Now hereunder there’s something for you to
TRY TO FIT DAVID IN, and if you cannot,
IT PROVES THAT JESUS IS NOT A SON OF DAVID AS THE WAY YOU CARNALLY SEE THINGS! Read THE TRUTH!
IJohn5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that
Jesus is the Son of God.
6This is he that came by
BY WATER and BLOOD
Jesus Christ
Not by water only
but by water and blood
Peace and Love in Jesus Christ
Gene,
I have explained this to you already many times. If you still do not understand, it is your problem, not mine. You are not even funny anymore. You and Jodi have not remotely convinced anyone here of your “understanding” and hopefully never will.
TC…..What makes you think your EXPLANATIONS are right, we believe ours are right and yours are wrong, but you are right aboit one thing, most all christendom think like you and Carmel do, that I will give you. BUT THEN AGAIN Jesus told us that would happen , he said “many”, would come and say he was the christ , and decieve “many”, you are definitely of the “many”. He also said ” wide is the way that leads to death and “many” go there in threat, but narrow is the gate and straight is the way that’s leads to life, and “few” there be that find it.
You along with 90% of the other all believe the same false teachings of present christanity, you boster all their false teachings, use their sites to get yoyr information, you force out text by changing, adding, omit words and change them to meet all those other false teachings of your, you now don’t even belive Jesus was not a different being then his God and our God, his Father and our Father.
You not being able to see Jesus as a fellow human being, who God the Father “perfected” as he also does with us, are not even close to the truth. IMO.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
TC….. you mean the many, O, I highly doubt that, because the many have no idea they are decieved, or they would indeed be worried.
When you have fallen for the lie, 2Ths2, because God has sent unto you a spirit of delusion, there is no way you possibly could be worried. Thats the whole idea of being “truly” decieved right?
You people preach and worship a “IMAGE” which you say is A GOD, the “man” Jesus, you are doing exactly what 2 Ths 2 says, and haven’t so much as a clue , your creating a false “IMAGE” OF JESUS, which turns the man Jesus into a MAN OF SIN. , which he at his return will abolish that false teaching about him. You people are IDOLATERS, without a clue how you are.
God the Father told us the first command, not have any God besides him nor to make “any” image of him , in heaven above or earth beneath , but you people “the many” have completely changed the image of the “man” Jesus into a GOD. Now do you honestly think GOD the Father is not against you for that? Are you truly that decieved? It appears you are.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
TC….I highly doubt you are worried, because that would take you KNOWING the truth, but as long as you worship and preach Jesus as a GOD, I am sure you or others “the many” like you, aren’t even the lest bit worried. I can tell that by how you force the text to say what in fact it is not saying, nor even hinting at.
You and those who teach like you have been sent a deluding spirit from God, so you are indeed bold in you false teachings, everyone who is decieved is.. You haven’t considered anything me or JODI have posted here, but that is fine with me , because it only proves the point. ‘Unless the LORD BUILD THE HOUSE THE WEARY BUILDERS BUILD IN VAIN”.
2 Ths 2 clearly shows what you are teaching and that “image” , of Jesus you have made, which turns him, “a son of man” into a God, which you ALSO worship and preach as a God, is quite evident from you posts. You are definitely of the “many” that’s for sure. We will see what the results will be.
He who has ears to hear let him hear.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Carmel, God did not become a man and God is not a man, and God is not contained in a finite body.
It was the Logos that was with God in the beginning that became flesh.
There was God and then the Logos. The origins of the man who walked among us is the Logos and as needs to be stated, no one is denying the origin of all things being God.
Through the Logos, God created the cosmos and likewise, through the son of God, God created the cosmos. These are written so we have no excuse.
I have noticed that people have trouble grasping all scripture, so they quote what they think they understand and spend the rest of the time denying other scriptures.
Just believe all scripture people, and the God of truth will bless you with understanding if you are worthy.
Do not fall into the trap of trusting in your own understanding, but let God’s word renew your mind.
Have some respect for his written word. If you cannot respect what he has revealed, then you are not worthy to receive his revelation.
And finally, be careful with your teaching. God will judge teachers much more harshly than others. Be true in your heart, teach the truth, and respect the truth, and God will reward you.
T8…..but scripture say , “the word “was” God”. Seems you also have a problem T8. T8….You can’t seperate a person’s words from the person, that like saying you and your words are a different person, God and his word was “in” JESUS,VIA THE HOLY SPIRIT, ON HIM. GOD CAN DO THE EXACT SAME WITH US, VIA HIS HOLY SPIRIT.
Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
T8…..but scripture say , “the word “was” God”.
It doesn’t say the Word was THE God as all other mentions of God in John 1:1 do.
Jesus also says, “ye are theos, ye are all sons of the Most High God.”
and
All who worship images are put to shame, those who boast in idols; worship him, all you elohim!
Are both these verses talking about the Most High God? No.
The definite article is not mentioned in John 1:1c while it is in the other instances of theos in John 1:1. Therefore, it is not saying that the Logos was THE God and other scriptures confirm this reading of it.
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.
See how God is the Father and the one who was with him is Jesus Christ the way, the truth and the life?
God without the definite article is used in a qualitative sense to mean something like divine nature or divine being as distinguished from the definite absolute Most High God. Similarly, if I did a good deed and someone called me an angel, that is not the same as calling me THE angel. See how THE makes all the difference?
Hi T8
You: It doesn’t say the Word was THE God as all other mentions of God in John 1:1 do.
The definite article is not mentioned in John 1:1c while it is in the other instances of theos in John 1:1. Therefore, it is not saying that the Logos was THE God and other scriptures confirm this reading of it.
Me: Granville Sharp’s rule doesn’t apply here.
Granville Sharp’s rule
https://www.theopedia.com/granville-sharps-rule
Quote: “Basically, Granville Sharp’s rule states that when you have two nouns, which are not proper names (such as Cephas, or Paul, or Timothy), which are describing a person, and the two nouns are connected by the word ‘and,’ and the first noun has the article (‘the’) while the second does not, both nouns are referring to the same person.”https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/1-1.htm
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/1-2.htmJohn 1:1 (Bible Hub) In beginning was THE Word and THE Word was with God and God was THE WORD.
John 1:1 (King James) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE Word was God.Now in the Greek language, John 1:1 above is more correctly stated in the bible hub than John 1:1 below in the King James Version. It says “God was THE Word”, not THE Word was God. It doesn’t state that God and his Word are the same nor does it state that they are different by trying to apply the Granville Sharp’s rule here. You can’t.
You: God without the definite article is used in a qualitative sense to mean something like divine nature or divine being as distinguished from the definite absolute Most High God. Similarly, if I did a good deed and someone called me an angel, that is not the same as calling me THE angel. See how THE makes all the difference?
It doesn’t say the Word was THE God as all other mentions of God in John 1:1 do.
Jesus also says, “ye are theos, ye are all sons of the Most High God.”
and
All who worship images are put to shame, those who boast in idols; worship him, all you elohim!
Are both these verses talking about the Most High God? No.
The definite article is not mentioned in John 1:1c while it is in the other instances of thehos in John 1:1. Therefore, it is not saying that the Logos was THE God and other scriptures confirm this reading of it.Psalms 97:7 Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods. 8 Zion heard, and was glad; and the daughters of Judah rejoiced because of thy judgments, O YHWH 9 For thou, YHWH, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods. 10 Ye that love YHWH, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O GOD is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God (the Messiah), even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
You: Jesus also says, “ye are theos, ye are all sons of the Most High God.”
and
All who worship images are put to shame, those who boast in idols; worship him, all you elohim!
Are both these verses talking about the Most High God? No.Me: Yes, the true God is called THE most high God, etc. But the Messiah is also called THE son of God, made so much higher than the angels and whom came in his Father’s name and inherited his Father’s name. They are one and the same person. A name fully describes a person’s character.
Judges 13:18 (NIV) He replied, “Why do you ask my name? It is beyond understanding.”
Hi T8
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a SON is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The EVERLASTING FATHER The PRINCE of Peace.
John 10:30 I and my Father are ONE
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; YHWH our God is ONE YHWH. :
Examples of the Granville Sharp’s rule that prove THE Son of God and The Almighty God are one and the same.
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of THE great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Me: No article “the” before savior Jesus Christ. Therefore the sentence refers to the same person. Similarly:
2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
Me: God and savior Jesus Christ refer to the same one person.
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