The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[kenrch]

Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 18 2007,13:45)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,15:32) Hi Oxy, With what? Implication?? Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “He” 8 times in the following 2 verses. You call that an implication?? Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come. Joh 16:14 He will glorify Me, for He will receive of Mine and will announce it to you. On top of that, Jesus addresses the Holy Spirit as “Himself” Also the Holy Spirit hears, guides, announces, speaks, and glorifies Jesus. And you say He is an it?

Are you female? You are part of the body aren't you. OR is the body of Christ all males. Is the bride of Christ all females? I'm surprised that you being born of the Spirit don't understand these things.

But then I'm perfect and NEVER miss what the Spirit is trying to tell me JOKE-JOKE! ok?

We must forget what man has taught us and become as children.

But I love you in the lord anyway,

Ken

[Oxy]

Quote (kenrch @ Dec. 18 2007,15:51)

Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 18 2007,13:45) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,15:32) Hi Oxy, With what? Implication?? Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “He” 8 times in the following 2 verses. You call that an implication?? Joh 16:13  However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come. Joh 16:14  He will glorify Me, for He will receive of Mine and will announce it to you.   On top of that, Jesus addresses the Holy Spirit as “Himself” Also the Holy Spirit hears, guides, announces, speaks, and glorifies Jesus. And you say He is an it? Are you female?  You are part of the body aren't you. OR is the body of Christ all males.  Is the bride of Christ all females?  I'm surprised that you being born of the Spirit don't understand these things. But then I'm perfect and NEVER miss what the Spirit is trying to tell me  JOKE-JOKE! ok? We must forget what man has taught us and become as children. But I love you in the lord anyway, Ken

I think the important issue isn't as much gender as identity. There are two schools of thought. Some say that the Holy Spirit is not an identity as such, and some say that He is, although I don't remember God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit ever being referred to as her.

Jesus recognised the Holy Spirit as “He” on numerous occasions.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Oxy @ Dec. 18 2007,13:45)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,15:32) Hi Oxy, With what? Implication?? Jesus calls the Holy Spirit “He” 8 times in the following 2 verses. You call that an implication?? Joh 16:13  However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come. Joh 16:14  He will glorify Me, for He will receive of Mine and will announce it to you.   On top of that, Jesus addresses the Holy Spirit as “Himself” Also the Holy Spirit hears, guides, announces, speaks, and glorifies Jesus. And you say He is an it?

Hi Oxy,
How should Christ speak of the ministry of God Himself?

[Oxy]

He has already spoken it. A lot of it is recorded in Scripture. It is still being revealed today.

[NickHassan]

Hi Oxy,
Are you a continuing source of truth? The same is claimed of the pope.

[Oxy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 18 2007,21:35)

Hi Oxy, Are you a continuing source of truth? The same is claimed of the pope.

So are you saying that the acts of Jesus Christ and/or God ceased at the end of the book of revelation? God does not communicate with people any more except through the Scriptures?

Paul (among others) was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write the things he wrote, that make up part of the Scriptures.

Are you saying God does not inspire writings any more? I know from my personal experience that He does, and there are many, many people out there who have written under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. It wasn't a unique experience for those who penned the Bible.

[NickHassan]

Hi Oxy,
It is good that you openly expound your faith in your own experiences
but few of us would see you as a new oracle of God.

[Oxy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 19 2007,08:40)

Hi Oxy, It is good that you openly expound your faith in your own experiences but few of us would see you as a new oracle of God.

You are right.

[NickHassan]

Hi Oxy,
So
Jesus the Son PROCEEDED FORTH and CAME FROM God.
He really is a son.
John 8:42
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Jn16
27For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

28I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

However the Spirit PROCEEDS from God.
God never loses that Spirit.
John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

God gave His son the fullness of the Spirit
34For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

Since the Spirit comes from God then God sends it.

Jn14
26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

And since the Spirit had been given to Christ and comes to us through him he too can be said too send it

Jn15
26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Christ died and now lives in the Spirit of God so both God and Jesus can be in relationship with us in the Spirit. We can fellowship with the Father and the Son who come to us.

Likewise in that Spirit we are united in Christ with God

Jn 14
20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

[kenrch]

Luk 10:21 In that hour the Holy Spirit filled Jesus with joy. Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for hiding these things from wise and intelligent people and revealing them to little children. Yes, Father, this is what pleased you.

In that hour the Holy Spirit FILLED Jesus with joy! Afterward Jesus began to speak to the Father. That IS after the Spirit came upon Jesus HE began to speak to the Father!

Hello! Is there any one there?! The Holy Spirit IS the Father who Jesus began to speak too! Not a different Person!

READ IT THROUGH YOUR OWN EYES! NOT THAT OF THE HARLOT!

Look! Everyone has been deceived by the Harlot for Centuries! Those who took the Harlot MORE seriously than the rest are more deeply rooted!

And IMHO will take more time to come out!

God bless,

Ken

[kenrch]

When the Spirit came upon Jesus did HE speak to a “third person”?

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Is the Holy Spirit the spirit of the Father?
Matthew 10:20
“For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
The Word of God is inspired by the Spirit of God.
It is the Spirit of God that quickens men and enables them to walk in God's ways.
Ps 119 among other psalms, contains many prayers for the quickening power of the Spirit of God.

Psalm 119:25
My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken thou me according to thy word.

Psalm 119:37
Turn away mine eyes from beholding vanity; and quicken thou me in thy way.

Psalm 119:40
Behold, I have longed after thy precepts: quicken me in thy righteousness.

Psalm 119:50
This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened me.

Psalm 119:88
Quicken me after thy lovingkindness; so shall I keep the testimony of thy mouth.

Psalm 119:93
I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me.

Psalm 119:107

I am afflicted very much: quicken me, O LORD, according unto thy word.

Psalm 119:149
Hear my voice according unto thy lovingkindness: O LORD, quicken me according to thy judgment.

Psalm 119:154
Plead my cause, and deliver me: quicken me according to thy word.

Psalm 119:156
Great are thy tender mercies, O LORD: quicken me according to thy judgments.

Psalm 119:159
Consider how I love thy precepts: quicken me, O LORD, according to thy lovingkindness.

[NickHassan]

and
Psalm 71:20
Thou, which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and shalt bring me up again from the depths of the earth.
Psalm 80:18
So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.
Psalm 143:11
Quicken me, O LORD, for thy name's sake: for thy righteousness' sake bring my soul out of trouble.

So the secret of salvation, the Holy Spirit of God that gives eternal life, was already taught in the OT.
Those who loved the Word of God would know these things.
They would welcome Jesus.

[acertainchap]

Luke 19:9-10

9 And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham; 10 for the Son of Man came to seek and to save that which was lost.”

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick ……> Have you ever thought that the Holy Spirit might Be Holy i.e. (Godly) intellect . Jesus said the words he spoke were Spirit and truth.
Now if we tie the three things mentioned by Jesus, (words,spirit,truth) together what do we come up with, to me we would come up with Godly intellect, which is being express by Jesus through words. So when were told to try the Spirits to see if there of God, were being told to try the words spoken to see if they Godly words. Maybe it all about intellect from a higher relam, this Higher intellect expressed through words was with God and (WAS) God, Just like John1:1 says. makes sense to me.

peace to you and yours………….gene

[kejonn]

Gene,

Is it written? Nick doesn't believe in anything that is not written.

[Sevena]

Quite personally I read the WatchTower. And Besides. There is no place where in the Bible that says that Jehovah, Jesus, and the holy spirit are one.
If you can prove me wrong please do so.

Sevena

[david]

I read the watchtower too. Here are the reasons why I believe the holy spirit is not a person or part of a trinity:

IS THE HOLY SPIRIT A PERSON OF THE TRINITY, TO BE WORSHIPED AS GOD ALMIGHTY?
The answer to this is unequivocally “No.”
The fact that the Bible does not explicitly mention, explain or teach a trinity is in itself strong proof that the trinity teaching is false. And this is also borne out by what the Bible teaches regarding the holy spirit.
God’s Word will help us and guide us to a correct understanding of the holy spirit. The correct identification of the holy spirit must fit ALL the scriptures that refer to that spirit. For example, one cannot just look at the fact that personal attributes are applied to the holy spirit and conclude that this proves the holy spirit is a person, for personal attributes are definitely applied to very impersonal things in the Bible by means of personification. Just above, we spoke of the Bible as “teaching,” “explaining,” ‘helping’ and ‘guiding.’ Yet we all understand the use of personification and that the Bible isn’t a person, because we can also speak of the Bible in ways that demonstrate it clearly is not a person. The point of this paragraph is that we must therefore find a belief that fits ALL the scriptures.

DOES THE BIBLE TEACH OR SAY THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD?
How many times does the Bible “tell”us that Jehovah is God? Expressions we find in the Bible:
Jehovah God–50 times
the [true] God Jehovah–4 times
Jehovah their God–39 times
Jehovah the [true] God–8 times.
Jehovah is in truth God–1 time
Jehovah is God–1 time
Jehovah is my God–1 time
Jehovah is our God–1 time
Jehovah your God–455 times
Jehovah our God–105 times
Jehovah my God–40 times
Jehovah his God–29 times
Jehovah is a God–7 times
Jehovah the God of–204 times
Jehovah a God–1 time

Does the Bible ever say: “the holy spirit is my God,” or “holy spirit the God” or “the holy spirit my God”?
Expressions such as this occur 1000 times with reference to Jehovah.
Does the expression: “the holy spirit your God” occur 455 times, as it does of “Jehovah your God”?
Why is it that no scripture says clearly and plainly that the holy spirit is God?
It is because it is clear and plain that God’s holy spirit, is not God.
Again, I ask:
HOW MANY TIMES ARE WE TOLD THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD?
In Theological Investigations, Karl Rahner, S.J., admits: “Θεός [God] is still never used of the Spirit,” and: “ο θεός [literally, the God] is never used in the New Testament to speak of the πνευμα αγιον [holy spirit].”—(Baltimore, Md.; 1961), translated from German, Vol. I, pp. 138, 143.

DID JESUS FOLLOWERS WORSHIP THE HOLY SPIRIT AS GOD?
There is no evidence that when Jesus was on earth, faithful Jews viewed the holy spirit as a person equal to the Father. They certainly did not worship the holy spirit. Rather, their worship was directed solely to Jehovah, the One whom Jesus himself called “my Father” and “my God.”—John 20:17.
The holy spirit is never worshiped in scripture, and neither does any verse of Scripture command such worship. This is odd if the holy spirit is truly a co-equal and co-eternal member of a triune “God” worthy of worship. If “God” is worthy of worship, and “God” exists in three persons, then shouldn’t each “God” person be worthy of worship? Then why is this idea not found in the Scripture?
How can this be harmonized with the supposition that the holy spirit is equal with both the Father and the Son?
Most definitions of “god” if you check dictionaries (which is perhaps the wrong place to get such a definition) have the phrase “object of worship” in the definition.
God Almighty is clearly deserving of worship.
If the holy spirit is “god” then you would think it should be worshiped.
If it is not worshiped, then how can we call it God?
Even more basic, if the Bible doesn't call it “god” as it does of Jehovah more than a 1000 times, why would we want to do this?
I think it's best to follow the Bible in this. Nowhere is it clear that the holy spirit is “God” or worshiped as God.
There are two possible reasons for this:
1. the holy spirit is not God or part of a trinity.
2. Despite the holy spirit being equal and God, it is never really called such and never mentioned as being worthy of worship.
If it is right to worship the holy spirt, then God would have made that clear in his word. It seems if the holy spirit is deserving of worship, it would be a sin not to do so, it being God and all. Yet, no mention is made of this. No command. No hint. And even if there was something that some could twist as being a “hint,” why would God's word only hint at such a thing?

WHY DOESN’T THE HOLY SPIRIT KNOW WHAT GOD KNOWS?
LUKE 10:22
“who the Son is no one knows but the Father; and who the Father is, no one [knows] but the Son, and he to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.”
You’d think if the holy spirit was God, he would be included in this. For some reason, only the Father truly knows the Son and only the Son truly knows the Father.
MARK 13:32
““Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father.” (Mark 13:32)
Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?
If the holy spirit is a separate and distinct being with personality, then Jesus either did not know this or was very inconsistent in giving “Him” proper due.
If the holy spirit is a person distinct from the Father, and is also omniscient and almighty “God,” then would he not also have to know what the Father knows? Jesus’ statement, then, would not have been true. If the holy spirit is a person and God, then Jesus statement is a lie.
How could the holy spirit be kept in the dark about this very important prophetic event? Are we to believe that it is possible for one member of the Godhead to keep a secret from another member while sharing the same eternal and divine “essence” of “Godself”?
The holy spirit is conspicuously missing from this statement, just as it is missing from in the many visions seen of God and Jesus below:

A PERSON CAN BE PORTRAYED BY THE IMAGE OF A PERSON–AS JEHOVAH AND JESUS ARE, YET FOR SOME REASON….
For some reason, even though we see visions of God as sitting on a throne and Jesus, such representations of God’s holy spirit are never given AND WHENEVER WE LOOK AT SUCH VISIONS, THE HOLY SPIRIT SEEMS TO BE MISSING…FOR SOME REASON.
Daniel, Stephen and John in visions saw representations of the Father and the Son, but never one of the holy spirit.
STEPHEN’S VISION
Acts 7:55, 56 reports that Stephen was given a vision of heaven in which he saw “Jesus standing at God’s right hand.” But he made no mention of seeing the holy spirit.
No holy spirit is mentioned in this vision because it was not any third person of a Trinity.
DANIEL’S VISION
In Daniel chapter 7 Daniel describes a wonderful vision Jehovah gave to him: “the Ancient of Days” on his heavenly throne, with a multitude of angels ministering to him. Daniel saw also “someone like a son of man [Jesus],” who was given “rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him.” (Daniel 7:9, 10, 13, 14) What, though, about the holy spirit? It is not mentioned as a person in this celestial scene.
JOHN’S VISION
The final book of the Bible—Revelation, (which means: “unveiling, uncovering)—describes other remarkable heavenly visions. The Supreme Being, Jehovah, is depicted t
here on his throne, and the Lamb, Jesus Christ, is with him. But, again, the holy spirit is not mentioned as a distinct person. (Revelation, chapters 4–6)
And again in Revelation chapter 21, we again see the Father and Christ, but holy spirit is once again not seen.
So even the final Bible book does not reveal that there are three persons in one god. Jesus repeatedly mentioned being at his Father’s right hand. No one is mentioned as being at his Father’s left hand. And nowhere are three divine persons pictured together in scripture.
If “the holy spirit” is a “co-eternal” member of a triune Godhead, it is strange indeed that he seems to have no seat of authority on the final throne. *(INSERT “THRONE”)
In contrast to God the Father and Jesus Christ, who are consistently compared to human beings in their form and shape, the holy spirit is consistently represented, by various symbols and manifestations, in a completely different manner—such as wind (Acts 2:2), fire (Acts 2:3; 1 Thes 5:19), water (John 4:14; 7:37-39), oil (Psalm 45:7; compare Acts 10:38; Matthew 25:1-10), a dove (Matthew 3:16) and an “earnest,” or down payment, on everlasting life (2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; Ephesians 1:13-14, KJV).
ACTS 2:2
“and suddenly there occurred from heaven a noise just like that of a rushing stiff breeze, and it filled the whole house in which they were sitting.”
JOHN 4:14
“Whoever drinks from the water that I will give him will never get thirsty at all, but the water that I will give him will become in him a fountain of water bubbling up to impart everlasting life.””
JOHN 7:37-39
“Now on the last day, the great day of the festival, Jesus was standing up and he cried out, saying: “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink. He that puts faith in me, just as the Scripture has said, ‘Out from his inmost part streams of living water will flow.’” However, he said this concerning the spirit which those who put faith in him were about to receive; for as yet there was no spirit, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.”
PSALM 45:7
“You have loved righteousness and you hate wickedness. That is why God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your partners.”
ACTS 10:38
“namely, Jesus who was from Naźa·reth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land doing good and healing all those oppressed by the Devil; because God was with him.”
MATTHEW 25:1-10
““Then the kingdom of the heavens will become like ten virgins that took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish, and five were discreet. For the foolish took their lamps but took no oil with them, whereas the discreet took oil in their receptacles with their lamps. While the bridegroom was delaying, they all nodded and went to sleep. Right in the middle of the night there arose a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Be on YOUR way out to meet him.’ Then all those virgins rose and put their lamps in order. The foolish said to the discreet, ‘Give us some of YOUR oil, because our lamps are about to go out.’ The discreet answered with the words, ‘Perhaps there may not be quite enough for us and YOU. Be on YOUR way, instead, to those who sell it and buy for yourselves.’ While they were going off to buy, the bridegroom arrived, and the virgins that were ready went in with him to the marriage feast; and the door was shut.”
MATTHEW 3:16
“After being baptized Jesus immediately came up from the water; and, look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove God’s spirit coming upon him.”
2 CORINTHIANS 1:22
“He has also put his seal upon us and has given us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit, in our hearts.”
2 CORINTHIANS 5:5
“Now he that produced us for this very thing is God, who gave us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit.”
EPHESIANS 1:13-14
“But YOU also hoped in him after YOU heard the word of truth, the good news about YOUR salvation. By means of him also, after YOU believed, YOU were sealed with the promised holy spirit, which is a token in advance of our inheritance, for the purpose of releasing by a ransom [God’s] own possession, to his glorious praise.”
So not only is the holy spirit not seen in vision with Jesus and Jehovah, represented in human form with a throne, crown, etc, instead, the holy spirit, when it is portrayed, is compared to completely impersonal things.
These depictions are difficult to understand, to say the least, if the holy spirit is a person.
It seems whenever there are visions or images given of the Father and Son, for some reason the holy spirit is not seen or represented and definitely not portrayed as a person. Why is that?
Along the same line….

THE HOLY SPIRIT HAS NO THRONE
In the same line of thought, many times it is explicitly declared that both the Father and the Son have a throne, and are seated upon that throne. (Rev 3:21; 22:3, etc)
But where is the throne of the holy spirit? How bizarre, if the holy spirit is the same as Father and the Son, and is one of the trinity, equal with them in power, substance, and glory! How is it that it has no throne while the others have?

SECONDARY POSITION IN THE SCRIPTURES / GREETINGS…
How could the holy spirit be equal with Jehovah the Father when it is given a secondary position in the Scriptures? Above we saw that it is missing from the visions of Jehovah and his Son in heaven. But it is somehow neglected to be mentioned in several other places by the divinely inspired Bible writers.
“This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”—John 17:3
Where is the holy spirit in this? While speaking of the grand life saving importance of taking in knowledge, where is the mention of this supposed third person of the trinity?
The apostle Paul in the opening of his letters often used expressions like this: “May you have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Romans 1:7) This is Paul’s standard greeting in his letters to the congregations, as well as individuals to whom he wrote. In each of his greetings he never mentions the holy spirit. Why did he not mention the holy spirit as a person? Because Paul knew nothing of the trinity.
James, Peter, and John used similar phrases in their letters where they likewise do not mention the holy spirit. And the same can be said of Peter’s closing words. Why? Because they were not Trinitarians either.
Paul’s same greeting, with only minor variations, appears in every letter that bears his name. (Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:3; 2 Corinthians 1:2; etc.) In Romans through Thessalonians, the Apostle Paul sends personal greetings from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. The holy spirit is always left out of these greetings— an unbelievable and unexplainable oversight if it were indeed a person or entity coequal with God the Father and Christ!
If “the holy spirit” were an integral and personal part of a triune Godhead, then why does “He” not send “His” personal greetings as well?
The only good answer is that there is no such person, for as an inspired writer of Scripture, Paul was on intimate terms with God and his Son, Jesus. If there were a third person involved, wouldn’t Paul have surely known about it and included “Him” in his greetings to the congregations?
When Paul does include additional persons in his greetings, salutations and adjurations, he names “the elect angels,” not “the holy spirit” (1 Tim. 5:21; cp. Luke 9:26 and Rev. 3:5). How interesting.
In all of Paul's writings, only in 2 Corinthians 13:14 is the holy spirit mentioned along with the Father and Christ, and there only in connection with the “fellowship of the Holy Spirit” (NIV)—not in any sort of theological statement on the nature of God. God's Spirit, says Paul, is the unifyin
g agent that brings us together in godly, righteous fellowship, not only with one another but with the Father and Son.
Yet here, too, God's Spirit is not spoken of as a person. Notice that our fellowship is of the Holy Spirit, not with the holy spirit. 1 John 1:3 tells us, “truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.” The Holy Spirit is not mentioned.
Paul states that “there is one God, the Father, . . . and one Lord Jesus Christ . . .” (1 Corinthians 8:6). He makes no mention of the holy spirit as a divine person.

NO DISTINCTIVE NAME, UNLIKE JEHOVAH AND JESUS, AND EVERYONE ELSE
That the holy spirit is without personality is also indicated by the fact that it has no distinctive name.
The Bible never speaks of the holy spirit in the same way that it speaks of God or of Jesus. For example, in the Bible, the holy spirit does not have a personal name.
Is that just an insignificant detail? No, names are important in the Bible. God stressed the importance of his own name when he said: “I am Jehovah. That is my name; and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images.” (Isaiah 42:8) The importance of Jesus Christ’s name was emphasized before his birth when an angel told Mary: “You are to call his name Jesus.” (Luke 1:31) If the names of the Father and of the Son are so important, why does the holy spirit not have a personal name? Surely, this detail alone should make a person wonder whether the spirit is really equal to the Father and the Son.

THE HOLY SPIRIT LACKS PERSONAL IDENTIFICATION
Since God himself is a Spirit and is holy and since all his faithful angelic sons are spirits and are holy, it is evident that if the “holy spirit” were a person, there should reasonably be given some means in the Scriptures to distinguish and identify such spirit person from all these other ‘holy spirits.’
It would be expected that, at the very least, the definite article would be used with it in all cases where it is not called “God’s holy spirit” or is not modified by some similar expression. This would at least distinguish it as THE Holy Spirit. But, on the contrary, in a large number of cases the expression “holy spirit” appears in the original Greek without the article, thus indicating its lack of personality.—Compare Ac 6:3, 5; 7:55; 8:15, 17, 19; 9:17; 11:24; 13:9, 52; 19:2; Ro 9:1; 14:17; 15:13, 16, 19; 1Co 12:3; Heb 2:4; 6:4; 2Pe 1:21; Jude 20, Int and other interlinear translations.
(I don't really care if your Bibles have inserted the definite article (the) in front of it in ever place. It proves nothing.)
“THE HOLY SPIRIT”
Jehovah God, the Creator, the Father, the Most High, the Almighty, has many distinctive titles and designations. He is thus distinctly distinguished from other gods or mighty ones. Likewise with his Son, Jesus Christ. There is only one by that name, only one “only-begotten Son,” only one “First-born,” only one Logos or “Word.”
Jehovah, Christ and the faithful angels are all holy spirits. Is the holy spirit “The holy spirit”?
If so, in what way does he excel Jehovah and Christ either as respects being a spirit or being holy?

USED POSSESSIVELY
More than a hundred times the holy spirit is referred to as “the spirit of Jehovah,” “God’s spirit,” “my spirit” and “spirit of Jesus Christ.” All such possessive uses of the holy spirit further argue that it is an instrumentality rather than a separate and distinct person.—Judg. 3:10; Matt. 3:16; Acts 2:18; Phil. 1:19; Ps 51:11; Joel 2:28,29

LOVE–WE ARE COMMANDED TO LOVE JEHOVAH AND JESUS. WHAT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?
We are required to love God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ; but no one is ever required to love the holy spirit. No such precept is given, nor is there any reference to it. Why?

LOVE–BETWEEN FATHER AND SON. WHAT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?
In many passages, Jesus spoke of the relationship between himself and his Father. (Mat 26:39; Mark 13:32; 15:34; John 5:18,22, etc.) Where does Jesus speak of the holy spirit as a person? Where does he speak of the relationship between himself and the holy spirit? The holy spirit is absent from Christ’s teachings in general. Jesus makes many statements about himself and the Father. He doesn’t make similar statements about himself and the holy spirit.
While very much is said about how tenderly the Father loves the Son, and how devotedly the Son loves the Father, not one word is said about the Father's loving the holy spirit, nor that the Son loves the holy spirit, nor that the holy spirit loves either the Father or the Son. No such thought is ever expressed. How shall we account for this fact if the Father, Son, and the holy spirit, are three persons alike and equal?
How astonishing, we say, that so much is said about the mutual love between the Father and the Son, and yet, not one word is said about a similar love between the holy sprit and the other two persons! Why is it left out in this manner?
Also, consider Luke 10:22, where it says: “who the Son is no one knows but the Father; and who the Father is, no one [knows] but the Son…” Again, why is the holy spirit left out?

LOVE–THE FATHER AND SON LOVE MAN. WHAT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?
Furthermore, it is never said that the holy spirit ever loves man; yet it is quite frequently declared how greatly both the Father and the Son do love man. But no such thing is ever said of the holy spirit. How shall we account for this?
(While some will quote scriptures such as the following, we notice immediately that none of these scriptures speak of the holy spirit personally, as having intamacy between itself and God, Jesus or mankind, DO THEY?
Which of them speaks of the holy spirit loving you? Which of them speaks of the holy spirit loving God? Or loving Jesus?)
Rom 15:30
Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the “love of the Spirit”, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;
Gal 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Phil 2:1
If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Tim 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
I Pet 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:

USED IN PARALLEL WITH QUALITIES AND OTHER IMPERSONAL THINGS
Notice the way the holy spirit is used in association with other impersonal things. You can be filled with it, along with such qualities as wisdom and faith or joy and at 2 Corinthians 6:6, we see that holy spirit is inserted, or sandwiched in, with a number of such qualities.
2 CORINTHIANS 6:6
“by purity, by knowledge, by long-suffering, by kindness, by holy spirit, by love free from hypocrisy,”
ACTS 13:52
“And the disciples continued to be filled with joy and holy spirit.” (Compare Rom 14:17)
ACTS 6:3
“So, brothers, search out for yourselves seven certified men from among YOU, full of spirit and wisdom, that we may appoint them over this necessary business;”
ACTS 6:5
“And the thing spoken was pleasing to the whole multitude, and they selected Stephen, a man full of faith and holy spirit. . . ”
1 THESSALONIANS 1:5
“because the good news we preach did not turn up among YOU with speech alone but also with power and with holy spirit and strong conviction, just as YOU know what sort of men we became to YOU for YOUR sakes;”
ACTS 11:24
“for he was a good man and full of holy spirit and of faith. . . ..”
ACTS 10:38
“namely, Jesus who was from Naźa·reth, how God anointed him with holy spirit and power, and he went through the land . . . “

MATTHEW 3:11
“I, for my part, baptize YOU with water because
of YOUR repentance; but the one coming after me is stronger than I am, whose sandals I am not fit to take off. That one will baptize YOU people with holy spirit and with fire.” (Compare Luke 3:16, Mark 1:8)
HOLY SPIRIT BEARS WITNESS, AND SO DO BLOOD AND WATER
As to the spirit’s ‘bearing witness’ (Ac 5:32; 20:23), it may be noted that the same thing is said of the water and the blood at 1 John 5:6-8.
1 JOHN 5:6-8
“This is he that came by means of water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. And the spirit is that which is bearing witness, because the spirit is the truth. For there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement.” (How can blood and water be in agreement with each other if they are not persons? I guess that’s more personification.)
Lumping the holy spirit in with these impersonal things indicates a lack of personality.

“SOMETHING, NOT SOMEONE”–CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA ADMITS
Even though Catholics view the holy spirit as part of the trinity, New Catholic Encyclopedia Encyclopedia must admit: “The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God’s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God.” (1967, Vol. XIII, p. 575) It also reports: “The Apologists [Greek Christian writers of the second century] spoke too haltingly of the Spirit; with a measure of anticipation, one might say too impersonally.”—Vol. XIV, p. 296.

THERE ARE MANY SCRIPTURES WHICH SPEAK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN A WAY THAT INDICATES IT IS NOT A PERSON.
It is referred to as a “gift.” (Acts 2:33; 10:38,45; 1 Timothy 4:14). The spirit of God is said to be divisible and able to be distributed. (Num. 11:17-25)
The holy spirit can ‘fill’ a person, and a person can be “full of holy spirit.” It can be “upon” him and envelop him. (Acts 2:4; 7:55; Eph 5:18; Luke 2:25-27; Exodus 31:3; Judges 3:10; 6:34)
Can a human get filled with another person?
Holy spirit was ‘given,’ ‘poured out upon,’ and ‘distributed.’ (Luke 11:13; Acts 10:45; Hebrews 2:4) It can be quenched. (1 Thessalonians 5:19) People can drink of it. (John 7:37-39; 1 Cor 12:13) The holy spirit also renews us (Titus 3:5) and must be stirred up within us (2 Timothy 1:6)
It is also called “the Holy Spirit of promise,” “the guarantee of our inheritance” and “the spirit of wisdom and revelation . . .” (Ephesians 1:13-14, 17).
Some of God’s holy spirit can be taken from one person and given to another. (Numbers 11:17, 25) The holy spirit can become operative upon someone, enabling him to perform superhuman feats. (Judges 14:6; 1 Samuel 10:6)
People can be ‘baptized’ “in holy spirit”; and they can be “anointed” with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38)
Far from teaching equality with Jehovah, the Scriptures show that the holy spirit is not even a person. Thus John the Baptist stated that Jesus would baptize “with holy spirit and with fire,” even as he was baptizing with water.
To baptize means to immerse, to dip, to submerge. A person can baptize others with water, dipping them into it, as John did, and a person can baptize others with fire by immersing them in flames or causing their destruction; but how can one person baptize others with another person?
Since neither water nor fire is personal, is it not reasonable to conclude that the holy spirit is also not a person?
Peter stated that God poured out ‘some of his spirit’ upon all kinds of flesh. Can we imagine some of a person being poured out on thousands of other persons, as was the case at Pentecost after Peter had preached to the Jews?—Matt. 3:11; Acts 2:17, 38, 41
Mark 1:10 shows that the holy spirit came down upon Jesus “like a dove,” not in a human form. The holy spirit was not some person coming upon Jesus. If it is a person, why did it not appear as a person?
That power from God enabled Jesus to heal the sick and resurrect the dead. As Luke 5:17 says in the Diaglott: “The Mighty Power of the Lord [God] was on him [Jesus] to cure.” Later, at Pentecost, the apostles also were given the power from God to heal the sick and raise the dead. Did that make them part of some “godhead”? No, they were simply given power from God, through Christ, to do what humans ordinarily could not do.
These impersonal characteristics are certainly not attributes of a person. None of these expressions would be appropriate if the holy spirit were a person.

[Sevena]

Well Now I know that I'm not the only one who reads the WatchTower

[Author]

Posts