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Quote (Marlin1 @ Jan. 05 2012,22:01) Quote MAT 1:23 † Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Emmanuel means “God is with us”. And MANY times in the OT, Jehovah said words to the effect of, “Don't worry, I am with you”, or “Fear not, for I will be with you”. In none of those instances did it mean Jehovah Himself was literally standing beside the person to whom He said those words. It meant that God was causing things to happen in their favor – not that He personally came to earth.The nation of Israel is called Emmanuel in Isaiah 8:8 and 10. But it doesn't mean the nation of Israel IS God, right?
Trinitarians do the same then when Jesus is called “Jehovah is our Righteousness”. They make the claim that it means “Jehovah, our Righteousness”, as if Jesus is Jehovah Himself. But they forget that the nation of Israel is also called by the same name.
This is nothing more than doctoring a translation to FORCE the scriptures into teaching what they WANT the scriptures to teach.
Marlin, the teaching that God Almighty, who is ONE, sent the Son He begot into the world as a sacrifice is all throughout the scriptures. And the unfortunate fact that Satan has blinded so many good people into thinking God Himself somehow came and died for us causes me great sadness and bewilderment.
As far as the rest of your post goes, you have listed many miracles done BY GOD THROUGH JESUS. Jesus wasn't “God” doing the miracles. Rather, it was God doing the miracles THROUGH him, as God did many miracles through many of His other prophets. Funny that I don't ever see anyone claiming that Moses, Samuel, or Elijah WAS the God who did the miracles THROUGH them.
Acts 2:22
“Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.Marlin, every “Jesus is God” discussion I've ever had on this site starts with me refuting scriptural twistings said by the other person. And in every case, the other person doesn't actually address the rebuttals I gave, but instead just moves on to more and more scriptures that I then have to untwist for them.
Before you bring up even one more “proof” that Jesus is God, first address the rebuttals I've already made.
Quote (Marlin1 @ Jan. 05 2012,22:01) you said,Hmmmm………….. Jesus was repeating what he saw “GOD” do? And yet he was this God whose actions he saw and repeated? Does that really make sense to you, Marlin?
I totally believe He only did what He saw by vision. Jesus, the son of man, a prophet. A true prophet always waits for God to show what to do.
Can't you even hear your own self?
You are saying that Jesus, being a true prophet, waited for God to show him what to do. And in the very next breath, you're claiming that Jesus WAS that God he was waiting on. Surely you can understand my confusion.
Marlin, before moving on, please address whether scripture teaches that God SENT His Son into the world, or that God Almighty Himself came into the world and died. Which one of these two choices is the vast, underlying teaching of the gospel?
Brother Mike,
you said,
Quote Marlin, before moving on, please address whether scripture teaches that God SENT His Son into the world, or that God Almighty Himself came into the world and died. Which one of these two choices is the vast, underlying teaching of the gospel? Quote ISAIAH 9:6 † For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Tell me, who is this that Isaiah is speaking of?
Quote John 1:3
“All things were made by Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made.”Again I ask you who is John speaking of?
Quote Gen1:1 “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth”. And who created all things?
God didn't create God, He has always been God and He is the all of it.
JESUS IS GOD, HE AND THE FATHER ARE ONE: THERE IS ONE GOD, AND HIS NAME IS THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.
Quote JOHN 10:30 † I and my Father are one. Quote JOHN 5:7 † For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. The Father, Word, and Holy Ghost are one, You can not have the Son without having the Father and Holy Ghost, for it is the same Spirit.
Not another God as the Trinitarains would like all to believe, but the one and only God made a body to dwell in, (became Flesh). Why is that so hard to believe?You used the old testament Emmanuel to try to prove that you are correct the way you see, 'God is with us'. Is it not true that God could only be with the people, because no provision had been made to take away sin. The blood of bulls and goats was only a covering for a time.
Quote I JOHN 5:8 † And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. These three agree as one, you can be justified without being sanctified; you can be sanctified without receiving the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
You are Justified when you believe, but you are not cleaned out, sanctified yet. And then the Holy Ghost comes.God Bless
MarlinQuote (Marlin1 @ Jan. 07 2012,22:56) Brother Mike, you said,
Quote Marlin, before moving on, please address whether scripture teaches that God SENT His Son into the world, or that God Almighty Himself came into the world and died. Which one of these two choices is the vast, underlying teaching of the gospel? Quote ISAIAH 9:6 † For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Tell me, who is this that Isaiah is speaking of?
Is 9:6 speaks of the anointed one that our ONE God would eventually send, of course.16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Tell me, who are these TWO persons that John is speaking of?
Quote 16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. speaks of the anointed one and our ONE God, in other words, it speaks of the temple that God prepared to live in and God.
John 1:3
“All things were made by Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made.”Gen1:1 “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth”.
And who is spoken of in these two verses?God Bless
MarlinMarlin. God made all things through Jesus Christ who is the Word.
When it says made by him, it means through him.Quote (Marlin1 @ Jan. 09 2012,22:43) Quote 16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. speaks of the anointed one and our ONE God, in other words, it speaks of the temple that God prepared to live in and God.
So John 3:16-17 speaks of our ONE God, AND the one who our ONE God anointed? So it speaks of TWO persons, only ONE of whom is “God”, right?Quote John 1:3
“All things were made by Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made.”Gen1:1 “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth”.
And who is spoken of in these two verses?
Gen 1:1 speaks of the ONE God I mentioned above. John 1:3 speaks of the anointed one OF that ONE God, who I also mentioned above.Marlin, this is a quote from Tertullian, one of the earliest church fathers, and the dude credited with first speaking the word “trinity”:
He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another.
He said this to distinguish the God who created all things from the servant through whom God created all things. Can you refute the logic of his statement?
Also, it seems we're being sidetracked here. I'm still waiting for a DIRECT answer to this question:
Does scripture teach that God sent His Son into the world as a sacrificial Lamb who died for us, or that God Himself came into the world and died?
peace,
mikeBrother Mike,
Sorry my brother, There is one God and His name is the Lord Jesus Christ.
He is the Word, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. One God that came in the Flesh, just as the scriptures says.I answered your question already.
Scripture says that God came to earth to reconcile man to Himself.Quote JOHN 17:5 † And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Who said this and what did He mean?6 † I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 † Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 † For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 † I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 † And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 † And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 † While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.The only name spoke of in the new testament is the Lord Jesus Christ. That is the NAME. And who is the Word.
He was Born the Christ and eight days later He was given the name Jesus.
He is the Lord Jesus Christ, the God of Glory made manifest among us.you said, He said this to distinguish the God who created all things from the servant through whom God created all things.
You believe that Jesus was an anointed man only, RIGHT…
Can you hear yourself, Jesus lived on the earth for 33 1/2 years and then died. Things were created long before He came to earth.God Bless
MarlinSo Marlin,
Is the Word of God also the God he is the Word of? Is the Father of God also the God he is the Father of? Is the Son of God also the God he is the Son of? Is the Holy Spirit of God also the God it is the Holy Spirit of?
I think you need to brush up on the meaning of the word “of”.
The scriptural passage you posted says NOTHING about God Himself coming to earth. Read it again. And then see if you can actually quote a passage that DOES say God Almighty came to earth and died.
And I believe Jesus is the Word of God, through whom GOD created all things. I believe this spokesman of God was made flesh, preached about the coming Kingdom of his God, died, and then was raised from the dead by his God.
He asked to be returned to the same glory he had ALONGSIDE his God before the world was created, but his God decided to exalt him to an even higher position than the one he left to become flesh.
So no, I don't believe Jesus was never anything but a human being.
peace,
mikeBrother Mike,
I can't reveal it to you, only God can do that. I shared the truth. What you do is make Jesus a little god. That is as bad as the trinity people, who cut Him into three pieces.
I shared the scriptures with you and you always say that it doesn't apply, well brother that is your opinion. Unless you have some scripture, I suggest we move on and just set this back and wait on God.
God Bless
MarlinHi Marlin and Mike,
Not understanding “The Word” is the “HolySpirit” creates all kinds of Theological problems. (2Peter 3:16)
Spirit = Ho Logos
“the sword of the Spirit, which is “The Word” of God.” (Eph.6:17)
“The Words that I speak unto you, they are spirit” (John 6:63)
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Marlin1 @ Jan. 11 2012,22:35) Brother Mike, Unless you have some scripture, I suggest we move on and just set this back and wait on God.
God Bless
Marlin
Jehovah is the Most High God. (Gen 14:22)And Jesus is the SON OF the Most High God. (Mark 5:7)
There's some scripture for you, Marlin. Do you believe them?
Quote (Marlin1 @ Jan. 12 2012,22:35) Brother Mike, I can't reveal it to you, only God can do that. I shared the truth. What you do is make Jesus a little god. That is as bad as the trinity people, who cut Him into three pieces.
I shared the scriptures with you and you always say that it doesn't apply, well brother that is your opinion. Unless you have some scripture, I suggest we move on and just set this back and wait on God.
God Bless
Marlin
MarlinHow can you share something you do not understand your self ?
If you have a revelation and can not explain it then do not say it because it would be useless,or confusing right?
Pierre
No my Brothers, the whole Word of God has to be revealed by God. When something is taught us it is just head knowledge. Some things can not be taught, such as..
Quote MAT 11:25 † At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast REVEALED them unto babes. Quote MATT 16:16 † And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 † And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.Now pay close attention to the above.
Jesus said, that it wasn't taught to Peter by any man, it was revealed by God.You see, WHO Christ is, could not be taught then and it can not be taught now. It is only by Revelation. You can have a photographic memory and know all the scriptures by heart and still not know who God is.
God Bless
MarlinQuote (Marlin1 @ Jan. 13 2012,14:21) No my Brothers, the whole Word of God has to be revealed by God. When something is taught us it is just head knowledge. Some things can not be taught, such as.. Quote MAT 11:25 † At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast REVEALED them unto babes. Quote MATT 16:16 † And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 † And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.Now pay close attention to the above.
Jesus said, that it wasn't taught to Peter by any man, it was revealed by God.You see, WHO Christ is, could not be taught then and it can not be taught now. It is only by Revelation. You can have a photographic memory and know all the scriptures by heart and still not know who God is.
God Bless
Marlin
Hi Marlin1.I agree with you.on this.
wakeup.
Quote (Marlin1 @ Jan. 12 2012,21:21) Quote MATT 16:16 † And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 † And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.Now pay close attention to the above.
Jesus said, that it wasn't taught to Peter by any man, it was revealed by God.You see, WHO Christ is, could not be taught then and it can not be taught now. It is only by Revelation.
God Bless
Marlin
Now wait a minute, Marlin. AFTER it was revealed by God that Jesus was the Son of God (NOT God Himself), that revelation was TAUGHT by Jesus' disciples – mere men.In fact, after being blinded, Paul made it his sole mission in life to teach his revelation to others:
Acts 9:20
At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God.The reason we have so many cockamamie unscriptural doctrines is because people claim to have been shown this or that by God Himself.
But we are told to test all things, right? And what do we have to test them against? Nothing but the written word of God.
So Marlin, if your doctrine is not specifically and clearly taught in God's written word, then I fear it is not God Almighty who has shown it to you, but the god of this world, masquerading as an angel of light.
Pierre is right on this one. If you can't show it to us via the actual scriptures themselves, then we have no reason to believe you. We are warned against believing additions and alterations of the words the disciples themselves preached.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2012,10:57) Scriptures say no such thing, Ed. In fact, Jesus says that his Father will SEND the Holy Spirit. Two things, only ONE of them the Father of Jesus.
Hi Mike, (it is more on topic in this thread)The Father did indeed send us his “HolySpirit”.
The Fathers spirit is “HOLY”, are you suggesting something different?
Consider this verse (as in, please explain it as you see it in reference to what we are discussing)……Like God the Father is (perhaps) the father of his “HolySpirit”.
“shall we not much rather be in subjection unto THE FATHER OF SPIRITS, and live?” (Heb 12:9)
Are you going to attempt to leave the HolySpirit out of this verse?And also, please explain this one while you are at it too; OK?…
Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
is above all, and through all, and in you all.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Jan. 14 2012,18:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2012,10:57) Scriptures say no such thing, Ed. In fact, Jesus says that his Father will SEND the Holy Spirit. Two things, only ONE of them the Father of Jesus.
Hi Mike, (it is more on topic in this thread)The Father did indeed send us his “HolySpirit”.
The Fathers spirit is “HOLY”, are you suggesting something different?
Consider this verse (as in, please explain it as you see it in reference to what we are discussing)……Like God the Father is (perhaps) the father of his “HolySpirit”.
“shall we not much rather be in subjection unto THE FATHER OF SPIRITS, and live?” (Heb 12:9)
Are you going to attempt to leave the HolySpirit out of this verse?And also, please explain this one while you are at it too; OK?…
Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
is above all, and through all, and in you all.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDJNo,God did not send his holy spirit to us,this is only you and some others who like to believe that they are of the first fruits,and that they have been called by Christ like Paul,sorry,show me scriptures please
Can anyone here claim that he as been called directly by Christ ?
Pierre
Brother Mike,
Just like others scriptures I have showed you, you change or twist them to fit your doctrine.
They had there ideas of who He was, even as people do today. It was not taught by man then and it can not be taught by man today. It was by revelation then and it is by revelation today.
You are right about people teaching who they believe Jesus is, most have it wrong. How is that, if it is so easily taught? Why are there so many different opinions?
Quote JOHN 5:39 † Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. Quote JOHN 5:43 † I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 † How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?Who's name did he come in?
Isa 9:6 says it all.
Jesus Christ is the mighty Counselor, HOLY GHOST
Jesus Christ is the Ever Lasting Father
Jesus Christ is the Mighty God
Jesus Chrsit is the all of it.You believe you know who Jesus Christ is, yet you can not satisfactory explain without rationalizing it, the difference between Mat 28:19 and Acts 2:38,(water baptism).
The way you believe one of them is wrong……. Jesus said to baptize in the NAME and Peter had a Revelation of what that NAME was and is today.You wouldn't baptize in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, because you do not believe Him to be the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Look up, God still gives Revelation, even today for a very short time more.
God Bless
MarlinEd,
I am not willing to entertain your charade AGAIN. We've been through this and many other misunderstandings you have many of times.
Your claim in the other thread was that God's Holy Spirit is the Father of Jesus. That is untrue.
John 14:26
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.See Ed? Does it say the Father Himself is COMING? Or does it say the Father is SENDING something? Which one?
Acts 2:33
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.Does this one say Jesus received THE FATHER HIMSELF? Or does it say Jesus received something FROM the Father? Which one?
Ed, my correction on the other thread was in no way meant to be taken as my willingness to go through all this with you again. I am not interested, because I already know where it leads.
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