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Edj,
Quote What makes you think you know what God wants and at the same time think others don't know what God wants?
Don't you think that's being a bit 'hypocritical' on your part? Think about it!Not Hypocritical at all – God said so himself and also for that reason he sent his Son: 2 Corinthians 5:19:
Quote that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. Quote 1 Timothy 2:3-4: This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. The gist of it is this: God knows that not ALL men will come to him but he is made himself known (through Crist) to all that they who accept will be saved and those who don't have no excuse when they are judged.
(“For once having known the truth they then return from… there have sealed their own doom” – my paraphrase)
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 27 2010,06:43) Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote God is a plural Unity.
Are you stating God is more than one individual who are all in accord, harmony?
Or
Are you stating God is more than one groups each group that is in accord, harmony with itself?
I assume the first as it seems to make more sense.
You are correct that Genesis 1:26 can be interpreted as proving polytheism or you can conclude God is speaking for his host as well as himself. “Us” is also used in Genesis 3:22.
I see nothing though that supports the Trinity as the Trinity is not about three individuals bound in a unity equivalent to marriage. I believe it is instead taught to be three persons that are still one individual.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 27 2010,06:43) Kerwin You are correct that Genesis 1:26 can be interpreted as proving polytheism or you can conclude God is speaking for his host as well as himself. “Us” is also used in Genesis 3:22.
No it can't be interpreted as Polytheism! Because that would be contradictory to Monotheism!There is no Biblical record that any other creature was made in the Image of God. However we know that Jesus is “The image of God”!
The unique thing about man over every other creation is he is created in the “Image of God” so the “Us” in Gen 1:26 could not be the host of Heaven, but would be the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
God is One Divine being, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit share the same essence that makes God, God!
WJ
Hi WJ,
So The Father is God and others are blessed to be allowed to share His Spirit.
You are getting close though He is ever one with His own Spirit.WJ
Christ and man are made in the image of God,but you have stated that it is only Jesus so we will believe you in stead of the scriptures this must be the true way to go .(you would like that don 't you???)
a true christian will never follow men doctrine no matter what.that's the truth.Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote No it can't be interpreted as Polytheism! Because that would be contradictory to Monotheism!
I believe that is not speaking of polytheism but your argument sound like you are stating that it is speaking of polytheism. I had to admit it can be interpreted that way even though I believe that such an interpretation is false.
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote There is no Biblical record that any other creature was made in the Image of God. However we know that Jesus is “The image of God”!
So according to you if God did not put it in the bible it cannot be true.
Mind that mankind is said to be created in the image of God and Jesus is a member of mankind.
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote The unique thing about man over every other creation is he is created in the “Image of God” so the “Us” in Gen 1:26 could not be the host of Heaven, but would be the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Do you have evidence to support your claim that man is unique in this way?
Here is my evidence to say we are not unique in being made in the image of God.
What does “image of God” mean?
I believe that that this verse man’s creation and fall.
Ecclesiastes 7:29(KJV) reads:
Quote Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
If that is so then angels to, were created in the image of God.
Jesus was tempted by even as we are but without choosing to sin and so he remains in the image of God.
In Romans 8:29 it states those who were made in the image of God but fell from the grace of God will come to conform to the image of Jesus the Anointed. In this way those who believe once more join the unity of the Spirit.
Romans 8:29(KJV) reads:
Quote For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote God is One Divine being, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit share the same essence that makes God, God!
Shiva, Brahma, and Vishnu all share the same essence that makes them One divine being even though they are fictional figures.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 28 2010,16:58) Worshipping Jesus wrote: Quote No it can't be interpreted as Polytheism! Because that would be contradictory to Monotheism!
I believe that is not speaking of polytheism but your argument sound like you are stating that it is speaking of polytheism. I had to admit it can be interpreted that way even though I believe that such an interpretation is false.
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote There is no Biblical record that any other creature was made in the Image of God. However we know that Jesus is “The image of God”!
So according to you if God did not put it in the bible it cannot be true.
Mind that mankind is said to be created in the image of God and Jesus is a member of mankind.
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote The unique thing about man over every other creation is he is created in the “Image of God” so the “Us” in Gen 1:26 could not be the host of Heaven, but would be the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Do you have evidence to support your claim that man is unique in this way?
Here is my evidence to say we are not unique in being made in the image of God.
What does “image of God” mean?
I believe that that this verse man’s creation and fall.
Ecclesiastes 7:29(KJV) reads:
Quote Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
If that is so then angels to, were created in the image of God.
Jesus was tempted by even as we are but without choosing to sin and so he remains in the image of God.
In Romans 8:29 it states those who were made in the image of God but fell from the grace of God will come to conform to the image of Jesus the Anointed. In this way those who believe once more join the unity of the Spirit.
Romans 8:29(KJV) reads:
Quote For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote God is One Divine being, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit share the same essence that makes God, God!
Shiva, Brahma, and Vishnu all share the same essence that makes them One divine being even though they are fictional figures.
Hi Kerwin,Excellent points!
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ Jan. 28 2010,00:58) So according to you if God did not put it in the bible it cannot be true.
You make a valid point, I also believe the word “Trinity” is not found in the Bible, but as you infer here that doesn't mean it is not true. In fact your point is true for everything I am saying!The scripture you quote says nothing of Angels being in the image of God. So you will have to try another.
Of course as you say just because it is not in the Bible doesn't necessarily mean it is not true.
The other problem that you have though is the “Us” could not have created anything since YHWH created everything by and through Jesus it is more plausible that Jesus was present and we know the Holy Spirit was!
To further add validity to the text is Jesus is the firstborn of all creation meaning he has the preeminence over it.
Who is the image of the invisible God, “the firstborn of every creature“: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: “all things were created by him, and for him: AND HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS, AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST”. Col 1:15-17
Blessings WJ
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 27 2010,19:44) WJ Christ and man are made in the image of God,but you have stated that it is only Jesus so we will believe you in stead of the scriptures this must be the true way to go .(you would like that don 't you???)
a true christian will never follow men doctrine no matter what.that's the truth.
Missrepresentation and a lie!WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 29 2010,02:42) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 28 2010,00:58) So according to you if God did not put it in the bible it cannot be true.
You make a valid point, I also believe the word “Trinity” is not found in the Bible, but as you infer here that doesn't mean it is not true. In fact your point is true for everything I am saying!The scripture you quote says nothing of Angels being in the image of God. So you will have to try another.
Of course as you say just because it is not in the Bible doesn't necessarily mean it is not true.
The other problem that you have though is the “Us” could not have created anything since YHWH created everything by and through Jesus it is more plausible that Jesus was present and we know the Holy Spirit was!
To further add validity to the text is Jesus is the firstborn of all creation meaning he has the preeminence over it.
Who is the image of the invisible God, “the firstborn of every creature“: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: “all things were created by him, and for him: AND HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS, AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST”. Col 1:15-17
Blessings WJ
WJ……..But others scriptures contradict the way you are implying those you quote, for instance you say scriptures says Jesus himself created all things rather visible or invisible etc.For instance in Issiah It say GOD (ALONE) created everything and even say there is (NO) GOD but he alone, He said he knows of (NO) other GOD, but you TRINITARIANS and PREEXISTENCES completely ignore those scriptures. Among many others that conflict with your ideology of a TRINITY GOD HEAD. You have disallowed these scripture in you thinking.
You make the (ASSUMPTION) the US in Geneses is Jesus and another GOD, but the word Jesus does not even appear in the text. You assume Where is say Jesus is the (FIRSTBORN) of all creation means He is the first thing ever created, when in fact that statement refers to his Status and Rank, and has nothing to do with the original creation of GOD, but the first to be born into the eternal Creation of GOD from the earth.
Trinitarians can't even read a simple and straight forward text like John 1:1 without inserting their own word into it, and forcing the text to mean what they want it to.
And Where Jesus himself even said in prayer “FOR THOU ART THE ONLY TRUE GOD.
And where GOD HIMSELF SAID YOU SHALL HAVE NOT OTHER GOD BESIDE ME”.
And where Jesus quoted scripture ” HEAR O ISREAL THE LORD YOUR GOD IS ONE LORD.Your TRINITARIAN and PREEXISTENCE IDEOLOGIES fall apart when considering the complete and unaltered texts. IMO
peace and love………………..gene
Gene said to WorshippingJesus:
Quote For instance in Issiah It say GOD (ALONE) created everything and even say there is (NO) GOD but he alone, He said he knows of (NO) other GOD, but you TRINITARIANS and PREEXISTENCES completely ignore those scriptures. Among many others that conflict with your ideology of a TRINITY GOD HEAD. You have disallowed these scripture in you thinking Gene,
The new testament EXPLAINS the old. The Father HIMSELF applies the old testament scripture to Jesus:
8 But to the Son He says:
“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”[a]10 And:
“ You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
The old testament Psalm is speaking about God as the Creator. The Father applies that Psalm to the Son. Therefore, the Son is the Creator.The difference between the trinitarian and the anti-trinitarian is plain. The trinitarian accepts the Father's testimony regarding His own Son while the anti-trinitarian does not.
thinker
Hi TT,
THEREFORE logic has no place in the exegesis of Scripture.
Let scripture speak and confirm itself without adding inference.Someone said that God applied this to the Son:
“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”[a]– and so it is. This is shown quite clearly in Revelations. I don't see how this makes Jesus the creator of the universe and all within.
– It is about the triumph of bringing in God's kingdom – the culmination and finality when Jesus finally received and enjoys his reward.And also this:
“ You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.”Jesus was the Chief Architect in teh creation of the earth and heavens – so yes, this is true. Where is ther a problem?
However, if someone then stops at that point it implies that God had nothng to do with HIS (God's) original plan.
Oh, dear, isn't this what I have been trying to get people here to understand – there is a working towards usurping God out of existance and replacing him with his Son (Ha! Satan, get the behind!!)
Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 29 2010,04:17) Gene said to WorshippingJesus: Quote For instance in Issiah It say GOD (ALONE) created everything and even say there is (NO) GOD but he alone, He said he knows of (NO) other GOD, but you TRINITARIANS and PREEXISTENCES completely ignore those scriptures. Among many others that conflict with your ideology of a TRINITY GOD HEAD. You have disallowed these scripture in you thinking Gene,
The new testament EXPLAINS the old. The Father HIMSELF applies the old testament scripture to Jesus:
8 But to the Son He says:
“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”[a]10 And:
“ You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
The old testament Psalm is speaking about God as the Creator. The Father applies that Psalm to the Son. Therefore, the Son is the Creator.The difference between the trinitarian and the anti-trinitarian is plain. The trinitarian accepts the Father's testimony regarding His own Son while the anti-trinitarian does not.
thinker
Thinker………Ignoring what i have written and start bouncing off the wall again is nonsense. Just deal with that i quoted and wrote first before you start your GANDY DANCING. Get the BASICS down (FIRST) THERE IS NO OTHER GOD BUT ONE AND THAT IS (NOT) JESUS IT IS (HIS) GOD AND (OUR) GOD, (HIS) FATHER AND (OUR) FATHER. Get the basics down (FIRST) and never let them (SLIP).This trinitarian garbage has really got you thinking screwed up brother. Dump the trash and clear you head of it. IMO
peace and love…………………gene
And it is primarily the Trinitarian views that lead the way – there are others who follow towards that aim but in their path, though.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 28 2010,21:42) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 28 2010,00:58) So according to you if God did not put it in the bible it cannot be true.
You make a valid point, I also believe the word “Trinity” is not found in the Bible, but as you infer here that doesn't mean it is not true. In fact your point is true for everything I am saying!The scripture you quote says nothing of Angels being in the image of God. So you will have to try another.
Of course as you say just because it is not in the Bible doesn't necessarily mean it is not true.
The other problem that you have though is the “Us” could not have created anything since YHWH created everything by and through Jesus it is more plausible that Jesus was present and we know the Holy Spirit was!
To further add validity to the text is Jesus is the firstborn of all creation meaning he has the preeminence over it.
Who is the image of the invisible God, “the firstborn of every creature“: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: “all things were created by him, and for him: AND HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS, AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST”. Col 1:15-17
Blessings WJ
I understand where you are coming from though I disagree with your interpretation of Colossians 1:15-17. I believe it is speaking of the new creation and not the old.That is an issue for another day. I did want to mention that I believe angels are merely tools in the hands of God though they have free will. When God command the angels act. For that reason when an angel acts it is God who is acting through them.
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 29 2010,04:56) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 29 2010,04:17) Gene said to WorshippingJesus: Quote For instance in Issiah It say GOD (ALONE) created everything and even say there is (NO) GOD but he alone, He said he knows of (NO) other GOD, but you TRINITARIANS and PREEXISTENCES completely ignore those scriptures. Among many others that conflict with your ideology of a TRINITY GOD HEAD. You have disallowed these scripture in you thinking Gene,
The new testament EXPLAINS the old. The Father HIMSELF applies the old testament scripture to Jesus:
8 But to the Son He says:
“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”[a]10 And:
“ You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
The old testament Psalm is speaking about God as the Creator. The Father applies that Psalm to the Son. Therefore, the Son is the Creator.The difference between the trinitarian and the anti-trinitarian is plain. The trinitarian accepts the Father's testimony regarding His own Son while the anti-trinitarian does not.
thinker
Thinker………Ignoring what i have written and start bouncing off the wall again is nonsense. Just deal with that i quoted and wrote first before you start your GANDY DANCING. Get the BASICS down (FIRST) THERE IS NO OTHER GOD BUT ONE AND THAT IS (NOT) JESUS IT IS (HIS) GOD AND (OUR) GOD, (HIS) FATHER AND (OUR) FATHER. Get the basics down (FIRST) and never let them (SLIP).This trinitarian garbage has really got you thinking screwed up brother. Dump the trash and clear you head of it. IMO
peace and love…………………gene
Gene,The Father Himself applied the Psalm to the Son. The new testament EVERYWHERE says that the Son created ALL things.
TO THE SON He [the Father] says,
” 'You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.' “We are not interested in YOUR interpretation of the old testament. We are interested in the new testament's interpretation of the old testament.
thinker
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 28 2010,12:56) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 29 2010,04:17) Gene said to WorshippingJesus: Quote For instance in Issiah It say GOD (ALONE) created everything and even say there is (NO) GOD but he alone, He said he knows of (NO) other GOD, but you TRINITARIANS and PREEXISTENCES completely ignore those scriptures. Among many others that conflict with your ideology of a TRINITY GOD HEAD. You have disallowed these scripture in you thinking Gene,
The new testament EXPLAINS the old. The Father HIMSELF applies the old testament scripture to Jesus:
8 But to the Son He says:
“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”[a]10 And:
“ You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
The old testament Psalm is speaking about God as the Creator. The Father applies that Psalm to the Son. Therefore, the Son is the Creator.The difference between the trinitarian and the anti-trinitarian is plain. The trinitarian accepts the Father's testimony regarding His own Son while the anti-trinitarian does not.
thinker
Thinker………Ignoring what i have written and start bouncing off the wall again is nonsense. Just deal with that i quoted and wrote first before you start your GANDY DANCING. Get the BASICS down (FIRST) THERE IS NO OTHER GOD BUT ONE AND THAT IS (NOT) JESUS IT IS (HIS) GOD AND (OUR) GOD, (HIS) FATHER AND (OUR) FATHER. Get the basics down (FIRST) and never let them (SLIP).This trinitarian garbage has really got you thinking screwed up brother. Dump the trash and clear you head of it. IMO
peace and love…………………gene
GeneIs that all you know how to do, is patronize?
WJ
Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 29 2010,05:30) TO THE SON He [the Father] says,
” 'You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.' “thinker
Hi Thinker,Where did you pull this verse out of context from,
you have not identified from where it came?Quote (Gene @ Jan. 28 2010,11:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 29 2010,02:42) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 28 2010,00:58) So according to you if God did not put it in the bible it cannot be true.
You make a valid point, I also believe the word “Trinity” is not found in the Bible, but as you infer here that doesn't mean it is not true. In fact your point is true for everything I am saying!The scripture you quote says nothing of Angels being in the image of God. So you will have to try another.
Of course as you say just because it is not in the Bible doesn't necessarily mean it is not true.
The other problem that you have though is the “Us” could not have created anything since YHWH created everything by and through Jesus it is more plausible that Jesus was present and we know the Holy Spirit was!
To further add validity to the text is Jesus is the firstborn of all creation meaning he has the preeminence over it.
Who is the image of the invisible God, “the firstborn of every creature“: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: “all things were created by him, and for him: AND HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS, AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST”. Col 1:15-17
Blessings WJ
WJ……..But others scriptures contradict the way you are implying those you quote, for instance you say scriptures says Jesus himself created all things rather visible or invisible etc.For instance in Issiah It say GOD (ALONE) created everything and even say there is (NO) GOD but he alone, He said he knows of (NO) other GOD, but you TRINITARIANS and PREEXISTENCES completely ignore those scriptures. Among many others that conflict with your ideology of a TRINITY GOD HEAD. You have disallowed these scripture in you thinking.
You make the (ASSUMPTION) the US in Geneses is Jesus and another GOD, but the word Jesus does not even appear in the text. You assume Where is say Jesus is the (FIRSTBORN) of all creation means He is the first thing ever created, when in fact that statement refers to his Status and Rank, and has nothing to do with the original creation of GOD, but the first to be born into the eternal Creation of GOD from the earth.
Trinitarians can't even read a simple and straight forward text like John 1:1 without inserting their own word into it, and forcing the text to mean what they want it to.
And Where Jesus himself even said in prayer “FOR THOU ART THE ONLY TRUE GOD.
And where GOD HIMSELF SAID YOU SHALL HAVE NOT OTHER GOD BESIDE ME”.
And where Jesus quoted scripture ” HEAR O ISREAL THE LORD YOUR GOD IS ONE LORD.Your TRINITARIAN and PREEXISTENCE IDEOLOGIES fall apart when considering the complete and unaltered texts. IMO
peace and love………………..gene
GeneTrinitarians believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one!
You are talking to the view point of a Modalist and not a Trinitarian.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 29 2010,05:44) Gene Trinitarians believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one!
You are talking to the view point of a Modalist and not a Trinitarian.
WJ
Hi WJ,Have you forgotten to respond to my question to you?
I have answerwd your question a second time and reprinted mine for you to answer: “Third Post down from the top…
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….4;st=50God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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