The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

Participant

Hi GB,
Did Jesus always speak from his own spirit and understanding or did God use his mouth?

August 21, 2008 at 11:34 pm#102435

Participant

Quote

Rather than a spokesperson for God, which can be a part time interest, Jesus really was a mouth piece for God

Both words apply. He spoke for God, as God's chief messenger. He was sent forth by God to Give God's message. Either word applies.

Can someone remind me what any of this has to do with the holy spirit.?

August 21, 2008 at 11:39 pm#102438

Participant

Nick……..Jesus is no (MOUTHPIECE) at all, He spoke through his own Mouth God's words to us. Please quite belittling Him as some kind of mime Catty Kathy doll or an ignorant person who only knows how to speak what someone else does, a clone of some kind. He is more then a mouthpiece, He is the very son of GOD and represents the Father to us in both word and deeds. Again the word Mouthpiece is not in any scripture so would it be better not to use it, its is a demeaning word, Unless it is used as a descriptor of some piece of an object. IMO

August 21, 2008 at 11:43 pm#102440

Participant

Hi GB,
So are you saying the words were all as a result of his knowledge?
You have already agreed God spoke through him in the first person at times?

August 22, 2008 at 1:04 am#102448

Participant

Quote

Jesus is no (MOUTHPIECE) at all, He spoke through his own Mouth God's words to us.

Someone who is a spokeman (speaks another person's message) is a mouthpiece. (see the definitions.)

August 22, 2008 at 1:53 am#102452

Participant

Nick……..were did say Jesus spoke his own words, You are again misrepresenting what i said. I said Jesus spoke GOD's words to Us Not His words. He said the words He spoke to us were (NOT) his words but the words of Him that sent Him, and Jesus is not portrayed anywhere as a MOUTHPIECE of GOD, in any text so why are you and David insisting on it then. No where did (I) even remote suggest Jesus was speaking His own words to us. A word is a word and is a expression od intellect no matter whose word it was.Nick you need to stop trying to trip me up as the Pharisees did Jesus.

David your definitions are useless seeing there is (NO) where the word (MOUTHPIECE) is written in any scripture so why should you and Nick, try to force the text to say it then. IMO

August 22, 2008 at 2:04 am#102453

Participant

Quote

Jesus is not portrayed anywhere as a MOUTHPIECE of GOD, in any text so why are you and David insisting on it then.

One definition (the one that applies) for “mouthpiece” is “spokesperson.”

A spokesperson is a person who speaks for or represents another.

Do you actually need a list of scriptures that show Jesus was God's spokesperson or “mouthpiece”?

Don't use the word mouthpiece if you're having trouble with it's meaning. I only began this line of conversation because you erroneously suggested that God was Jesus' mouthpiece. Now that, is nowhere in scritpure.

August 22, 2008 at 2:09 am#102454

Participant

Quote

David your definitions are useless seeing there is (NO) where the word (MOUTHPIECE) is written in any scripture

No english words are, including “mouthpiece.” But he was certainly a spokesperson, and that's what mouthpiece means.

August 22, 2008 at 2:55 am#102459

Participant

JOHN 3:34
“For the one whom God sent forth [Jesus] speaks the sayings of God. . . .”

JOHN 12:49
“I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak.”

Jesus was clearly a representative sent forth who spoke what the Father wanted him to speak….hence the very definition of a spokesperson, or mouthpiece.

GB, I just think your understanding of “mouthpiece” is very different from what the dictionaries and what I understand it to be. It means a “spokesperson” which Jesus was. He was the ultimate spokesman for God.

DEUTERONOMY 18:18
“A prophet I shall raise up for them from the midst of their brothers, like you; and I shall indeed put my words in his mouth, and he will certainly speak to them all that I shall command him.”

If God puts his words in someone else's mouth, that makes them a mouthpiece. It does not make God a mouthpiece.

I just heard the sound of a horse falling over.

August 26, 2008 at 8:08 am#102946

gollamudi

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 20 2008,02:50)

Nick………right God the Father does Share His Spirit and that's the spirit that is in us and Jesus.

Hi brothers Nick and Gene, thanks for that explanation on Holy Spirit which is none but the same Spirit of God that was also in Jesus and has been given to us to share God's nature along with the Son of God, Jesus.

Love and peace to you
Adam

August 30, 2008 at 6:48 pm#103442

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 26 2008,20:08)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 20 2008,02:50)

Nick………right God the Father does Share His Spirit and that's the spirit that is in us and Jesus.

Love and peace to you
Adam

Adam ………you have it right, don't let anyone shake that from you, it only one spirit in all and though all that will remain, and that is GOD the FATHERS.

love and peace to you and yours…………gene

August 31, 2008 at 6:48 am#103494

Participant

Hi GM,
Not all who claim to share that Spirit are.
That is why we must test the spirits.

September 1, 2008 at 2:35 am#103598

Participant

Nick…..right and how do we test the spirits is it not through whats said and where does what said come from, the mind ie. intellect of a person, and how is it expressed, in words, so the WORDS EXPOSE the Persons intellect and WORDS ARE SPIRIT according to Jesus. So then we can know a persons SPIRIT (INTELLECT) by His WORDS.

September 1, 2008 at 2:39 am#103599

Participant

Hi GB,
Is the intellect of the mind or the heart?

Matthew 12:34
” You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.

September 1, 2008 at 3:26 am#103608

Participant

Nick…….Both, the mind is the Heart and what is spoken is from its intellect and is expressed in words.They can not work separate of each other, If you have the mind of GOD you will have the Heart of GOD, if your have the mind of Christ you will have the Heart of Christ, you can not separate them. “the heart of a man (CARNAL) man, is desperately wicked and so is his heart, “O” that there were such an Heart in them that it might go well with them”. “The heart is (DECEITFUL) above all things who can know it, I the Lord search the Heart” . I don't see where they can be separated. Deceit is and (ACT) of intelligence and comes from the Heart and mind of man.

September 1, 2008 at 3:43 am#103615

Participant

HI GB,
The MIND is the HEART??

Matthew 22:37
And He said to him, ” ' YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'

Mark 12:30
AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.'

Luke 10:27
And he answered, ” YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”

Philippians 4:7
And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

September 1, 2008 at 5:22 am#103629

Participant

Quote

Matthew 22:37
And He said to him, ” ' YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'

Now that that's settled beyond any doubt, (the mind isn't the heart) and we understand what a mouthpiece is, back to the holy spirit.

September 1, 2008 at 7:13 am#103639

Participant

Nick…….not one quote did not include mind and heart, why because they are all one you cant have one without the other.Because thats the complete being you cant have one with out the other. If you love God with all you Heart you are loving him with you mind also or if you are loving him with all you mind you are loving him with all you heart also, they are one unit which makes up a soul. The person Himself. YOU cant desperate them its impossible. Show me any where where it says he or she loved them in there heart and didn't love them in there mind. You cant have one without the other. Heart and mind are interchangeable in scripture if a man had a heart to go he also had a mind to go, there is no difference. IMO

September 1, 2008 at 7:21 am#103640

Participant

David …..where in scripture does it say he had a mind but he didn't have a heart where does it say they are separate from each other. They are presented in scripture as one unit which represents a being. And where in scripture is the word MOUTHPIECE even mentioned.

September 1, 2008 at 10:19 am#103652