John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 14,781 through 14,800 (of 26,009 total)
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  • #362505
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=kerwin,Nov. 23 2013,06:24][/quote]

    Quote
    but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

    Kerwin,

    Thanks,

    WITH THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE,
    YOU CONFIRMED THAT WHAT I POSTED TO MIKE, WHICH HE IGNORED, WAS THE TRUTH!

    READ AGAIN MY POST IN FULL BUT THIS TIME TO YOU, BUT DO NOT IGNORE LIKE YOU ALSO DID WITH OTHER POSTS WHICH ALSO REVEALED THE TRUTH!

    Quote
    =mikeboll64,Nov. 20 2013,12:26
    Quote
    Did Moses actually carry this PERSON (the word of YHWH) in his hand?

    Mike,

    IS GOD A BEING LIKE US?  DEFINITELY NOT!

    IS GOD A DISCERNABLE BEING LIKE US? DEFINITELY NOT!

    AND THE LIST GOES ON!

    SO WHAT IS THE REASON THAT YOU ARE COMPARING GOD WITH US?

    ALSO THROUGHOUT THE BIBLE THE WORD WORD IS USED  HUNDREDS OF TIMES, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT IS ALWAYS A REFERENCE TO THE WORD WHICH WAS MADE FLESH, JESUS CHRIST!        

    GOD IS A SPIRIT, AND ALL HIS ATTRIBUTES ARE SPIRITS!

    AND IF HE WANTS TO BE VISIBLE HE COULD DO SO IN EVERY SENSE LIKE US, AND IN THE SAME TIME HE WOULD MAINTAIN HIS SPIRITUAL STATE!LIKE HE DID WHEN HE WENT TO ADAM AND ATE FOOD!

    JESUS HIMSELF CONFIRMED AND SAID:

    MY WORDS ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE!

    OUR WORDS ARE NEITHER SPIRITS, NOR LIFE!

    GOD THE FATHER IS LOVE ITSELF!

    THE SON IS WISDOM ITSELF! HAPPY NOW? THIS WISDOM WAS ORDAINED BEFORE THE WORLD WHEN HE LEFT THE FATHER AS THE WORD ALL IN THE SON'S SPIRIT,THE TRIUNE CREATOR MEDIATOR GOD,TO CREATE OUR WORLD

    THE HOLY SPIRIT IS POWER ITSELF!

    Quote

    AND THEY ARE ALL BEINGS, AND IN THE SAME TIME ONE GOD ALMIGHTY!

    SO:

    THE WORD IS GOD HIMSELF, BUT ALL WITHIN THE SON'S SPIRIT. GOD'S ABODE, THE ONLY MEDIATOR CREATOR TRIUNE GOD!

    NOW READ:

    Hebrews 4:12For the word of God is living and effectual, HAPPY NOW?

    THE WORD IS A LIVING AND EEFECTUAL!

    READ MORE!
    and more piercing than any two edged sword; and reaching unto the division of the soul and the spirit, of the joints also and the marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature invisible in his sight: but all things are naked and open to his eyes, to whom our speech is.

    OK? THE WORD DOES ALL THAT WE DO WITH OUR BODY

    SO YES MIKE, THE WORD IS A BEING ITSELF, EVEN MORE

    HE IS THE MOST POWERFUL BEING! AND HE IS IN CONTROL OF ALL THE ENTIRE CREATION!

    HE IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #362506
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=terraricca,Nov. 23 2013,16:44][/quote]

    Quote
    You do not understand yet, the creation of God is the works done by his knowledge and wisdom : the words are only used to give orders ,

    Terraricca,

    WITH EVERY RESPECT:

    CORRECTION:

    YOU SAID:the creation of God is the works done by his knowledge and wisdom

    FIRST OF ALL KNOWLEDGE IS A BRANCH OF WISDOM!

    MERRIAM WEBSTER DICTIONARY

    WISDOM:

    knowledge that is gained by having many experiences in life

    : the natural ability to understand things that most other people cannot understand

    : knowledge of what is proper or reasonable : good sense or judgment

    SO CORRECTION NOW:

    THE CREATION OF THE WORLD IS THE WORKS DONE BY:

    THE FATHER          LOVE  ITSELF

         THE SON              WISDOM ITSELF

         THE HOLY SPIRIT  POWER ITSELF

    ALL IN THE SON'S SPIRIT UNDER THE TITLE OF THE WORD

    THE TRIUNE MEDIATOR CREATOR GOD

    THAT IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #362507
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 23 2013,14:26)

    Quote (jammin @ Nov. 23 2013,07:03)

    Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 23 2013,06:27)

    Quote (jammin @ Nov. 22 2013,14:54)

    Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 21 2013,13:31)

    Quote (jammin @ Nov. 21 2013,07:54)
    kerwin,

    ill repeat what i said. the version said the Word was God.
    the version also said the Word was divine BUT NO VERSION SAYS GOD IS LIKE HIS WORD IN JOHN1.1

    you said GOD is like his word. now im asking you where can you find that in john 1.1.

    we are now at page 1047 but i  still get no answer from you boy


    Jammin,

    Any version that can be interpreted to be true will do if you understand the truth.

    So do you believe both God and his word are divine.


    cant you read my posts??

    i said the version said the WORD was GOD. some versions said the WORD was divine but no version said GOD IS LIKE HIS WORD

    how can you win the case if you dont have materials to provide?

    this is very obvious that you just waNT TO POLLUTE THE MINDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE.
    praise the LORD because the bible clearly tells us that THE WORD WAS CHRIST HIMSELF. he was DIVINE and he was GOD.

    John 1:1

    New Life Version (NLV)
    Christ Lived Before the World Was Made

    1 The Word (Christ) was in the beginning. The Word was with God. The Word was God.

    this topic should now be closed. it is no longer profitable to talk to false teachers like you kerwin. you say non sense words.


    Jammin,

    The word divine means godlike.

    godlike

    Quote
    Synonyms
       blessed (also blest), divine, holy, godly, heavenly, sacred, supernatural

    Note: godlike


    the word godlike is not the same as  “GOD IS LIKE HIS WORD.”

    do you know english boy???

    i think you should go back to elementary school


    Jammin,

    You are the one arguing with an English dictionary, not me.


    im not arguing with it.
    you are saying words that are not written in the dictionary.

    what dictionary can you give that says that the meaning of the word “godlike” is GOD IS LIKE HIS WORD?

    make your own dictionary LOL

    #362508
    jammin
    Participant

    i do not know if this kerwin is really an english man.
    how come you dont understand the meaning of the word godlike.
    godlike is not the same as GOD IS LIKE HIS WORD.

    you said that john 1.1 tells us that GOD IS LIKE HIS WORD but until now you dont have version for your opinion.

    poor guy.

    #362512
    942767
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 22 2013,10:25)

    Quote (942767 @ Nov. 22 2013,04:22)
    Hi Pierre:

    Quote
    now you think that the words that where said by the prophets is less important than the words that Christ said right ???

    your are wrong ,you have mist the truth ,and I getting tire to say and show the scriptures to the truth of God ,over and over again ,it seems you do not understand the meaning of them

    Quit putting words in my mouth.  I did not say any thing about what Word of God was more or less important.

    But no other prophet obeyed the Word of God without sin unto death on the cross.

    And so if you are tired of my giving you my understanding of the scriptures, then quit responding to my posts.

    Have you ever considered that it might just be you that is wrong?

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Marty

    MT 23:35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
    LK 11:51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation

    I do not put words in your mouth ,but your logic of explaining things brings you to that version of events,
    THE WORDS SPOKEN BY GOD ARE ALL OF EQUAL POWER ,THE ONE THAT SAYS THEM BECOMES IRRELEVANT TO WHAT IS SPOKEN,BUT IN THE CASE OF CHRIST IT WAS NOT THE WORDS ONLY THAT HE SPOOKED BECAUSE THE WORDS HE SPOOKED WHERE ALREADY WRITTEN AND RECORDED BY PREVIOUS PROPHETS ,BUT IT IS HIS SPECIAL   ACTION THAT HE DID ,;FOR THAT IS WHY HE WAS SEND DOWN FROM THE FATHER TO FULFILL THOSE ACTIONS IN THE NAME OF HIS TRUE FATHER AND GOD,SO THAT “THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD IS COMPLETE WITH THE ACTIONS THAT WAS WRITTEN IN IT ;SO THAT GOD'S GLORY WOULD BECOME COMPLETE ,”

    Quote
    your are wrong ,you have mist the truth ,and I getting tire to say and show the scriptures to the truth of God ,over and over again ,it seems you do not understand the meaning of them

    I LET YOU WITH YOUR OWN MIND TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG ;


    Hi Pierre:

    The point that was being made by the scriptures posted is that the “Word” or the Word of God is not a person, but is that which He has spoken.

    And yes, I will discern the truth through God's Word, even if you disagree with what I have written:

    This is what Jesus said:

    Quote

    Jhn 17:14

    I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

    Jhn 17:15

    I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

    Jhn 17:16

    They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.  

    Jhn 17:17

    Sanctify them through thy truth:thy word is truth.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #362513
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    To All……..God and his Words are one because those utterances or Words come from him alone, Just as you and your utterances of”words” are come from you, the same thing with God and His words.  Jesus spoke God the Fathers words to us, which God gave him to speak, Just as he said he did. The words i am telling you are “NOT “MY”  WORDS, but the words of Him that sent me. Remember it says GOD 'SPOKE” to us, in times past “THROUGH” the PROPHETS, has in these latter days “SPOKEN” to us “THROUGH” a SON. So who Spoke?, GOD “SPOKE”.

    God is a Spirit and his words are Spirit , and they reflect (his life), Just as your word are spirit and reflect your mind and life also, also. Remember where it says, we are to judge the spirits to see if they are OF GOD, if what a man says is not in line with what God has said, then he or she, is simply not of GOD.

    God and his words are one and the same and can not be separated from him, Just as you and your words are, Jesus spoke as a messenger God's word to us. How can something so simple become so confusing in the minds of men, it is just amazing what false religions and teachers can produce. “THE WORD “WAS” GOD AND GOD'S WORDS ARE WITH HIM, JUST AS YOU WORDS ARE WITH YOU,SAME THING, no mystery religion needed.

    Now the “POWER” to carry them out is quite another thing. God's “POWER” is unlimited while ours is quite limited to these bodies we have.  IMO

    peace and love to you all……………………………….gene

    #362514
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ Nov. 23 2013,13:23)

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 23 2013,16:44)


    Quote
    You do not understand yet, the creation of God is the works done by his knowledge and wisdom : the words are only used to give orders ,

    Terraricca,

    WITH EVERY RESPECT:

    CORRECTION:

    YOU SAID:the creation of God is the works done by his knowledge and wisdom

    FIRST OF ALL KNOWLEDGE IS A BRANCH OF WISDOM!

    MERRIAM WEBSTER DICTIONARY

    WISDOM:

    knowledge that is gained by having many experiences in life

    : the natural ability to understand things that most other people cannot understand

    : knowledge of what is proper or reasonable : good sense or judgment

    SO CORRECTION NOW:

    THE CREATION OF THE WORLD IS THE WORKS DONE BY:

    THE FATHER          LOVE  ITSELF

         THE SON              WISDOM ITSELF

         THE HOLY SPIRIT  POWER ITSELF

    ALL IN THE SON'S SPIRIT UNDER THE TITLE OF THE WORD

    THE TRIUNE MEDIATOR CREATOR GOD

    THAT IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles


    charles

    this is men's view and understanding ,because of man has limits in knowledge and time of his life ;

    all those things do not apply to God Jehovah the creator .

    #362517
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Nov. 23 2013,13:40)

    Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 23 2013,14:26)

    Quote (jammin @ Nov. 23 2013,07:03)

    Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 23 2013,06:27)

    Quote (jammin @ Nov. 22 2013,14:54)

    Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 21 2013,13:31)

    Quote (jammin @ Nov. 21 2013,07:54)
    kerwin,

    ill repeat what i said. the version said the Word was God.
    the version also said the Word was divine BUT NO VERSION SAYS GOD IS LIKE HIS WORD IN JOHN1.1

    you said GOD is like his word. now im asking you where can you find that in john 1.1.

    we are now at page 1047 but i  still get no answer from you boy


    Jammin,

    Any version that can be interpreted to be true will do if you understand the truth.

    So do you believe both God and his word are divine.


    cant you read my posts??

    i said the version said the WORD was GOD. some versions said the WORD was divine but no version said GOD IS LIKE HIS WORD

    how can you win the case if you dont have materials to provide?

    this is very obvious that you just waNT TO POLLUTE THE MINDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE.
    praise the LORD because the bible clearly tells us that THE WORD WAS CHRIST HIMSELF. he was DIVINE and he was GOD.

    John 1:1

    New Life Version (NLV)
    Christ Lived Before the World Was Made

    1 The Word (Christ) was in the beginning. The Word was with God. The Word was God.

    this topic should now be closed. it is no longer profitable to talk to false teachers like you kerwin. you say non sense words.


    Jammin,

    The word divine means godlike.

    godlike

    Quote
    Synonyms
       blessed (also blest), divine, holy, godly, heavenly, sacred, supernatural

    Note: godlike


    the word godlike is not the same as  “GOD IS LIKE HIS WORD.”

    do you know english boy???

    i think you should go back to elementary school


    Jammin,

    You are the one arguing with an English dictionary, not me.


    im not arguing with it.
    you are saying words that are not written in the dictionary.

    what dictionary can you give that says that the meaning of the word “godlike” is GOD IS LIKE HIS WORD?

    make your own dictionary LOL


    Jammin,

    So, do you agree that divine, godlike, godly, and the like are words that mean the same but sound different? It sounds like you do.

    You instead do not believe that God's Utterance is like him even though both God and his word framed the worlds and ages.

    These are the words of a Jew of that time speaking of the word.

    Quote
    Now the image of God is the Word, by which all the world was made.” (The Special Laws, I, XVI, 81).

    That is what Jew like John in the same age as John.

    Note: I obtained the quote from Philo of Alexander on the word here.

    #362528
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (942767 @ Nov. 23 2013,20:32)

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 22 2013,10:25)

    Quote (942767 @ Nov. 22 2013,04:22)
    Hi Pierre:

    Quote
    now you think that the words that where said by the prophets is less important than the words that Christ said right ???

    your are wrong ,you have mist the truth ,and I getting tire to say and show the scriptures to the truth of God ,over and over again ,it seems you do not understand the meaning of them

    Quit putting words in my mouth.  I did not say any thing about what Word of God was more or less important.

    But no other prophet obeyed the Word of God without sin unto death on the cross.

    And so if you are tired of my giving you my understanding of the scriptures, then quit responding to my posts.

    Have you ever considered that it might just be you that is wrong?

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Marty

    MT 23:35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
    LK 11:51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation

    I do not put words in your mouth ,but your logic of explaining things brings you to that version of events,
    THE WORDS SPOKEN BY GOD ARE ALL OF EQUAL POWER ,THE ONE THAT SAYS THEM BECOMES IRRELEVANT TO WHAT IS SPOKEN,BUT IN THE CASE OF CHRIST IT WAS NOT THE WORDS ONLY THAT HE SPOOKED BECAUSE THE WORDS HE SPOOKED WHERE ALREADY WRITTEN AND RECORDED BY PREVIOUS PROPHETS ,BUT IT IS HIS SPECIAL   ACTION THAT HE DID ,;FOR THAT IS WHY HE WAS SEND DOWN FROM THE FATHER TO FULFILL THOSE ACTIONS IN THE NAME OF HIS TRUE FATHER AND GOD,SO THAT “THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD IS COMPLETE WITH THE ACTIONS THAT WAS WRITTEN IN IT ;SO THAT GOD'S GLORY WOULD BECOME COMPLETE ,”

    Quote
    your are wrong ,you have mist the truth ,and I getting tire to say and show the scriptures to the truth of God ,over and over again ,it seems you do not understand the meaning of them

    I LET YOU WITH YOUR OWN MIND TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG ;


    Hi Pierre:

    The point that was being made by the scriptures posted is that the “Word” or the Word of God is not a person, but is that which He has spoken.

    And yes, I will discern the truth through God's Word, even if you disagree with what I have written:

    This is what Jesus said:

    Quote

    Jhn 17:14

    I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

    Jhn 17:15

    I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

    Jhn 17:16

    They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.  

    Jhn 17:17

    Sanctify them through thy truth:thy word is truth.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Marty

    Quote
    Hi Pierre:

    The point that was being made by the scriptures posted is that the “Word” or the Word of God is not a person, but is that which He has spoken.

    And yes, I will discern the truth through God's Word, even if you disagree with what I have written:

    This is what Jesus said:

    well their is our different understanding ;from God's written word ;this is not new ,is it ;?

    Quote
    And yes, I will discern the truth through God's Word,

    I always wander why we (and many) read the written scriptures and yet find different interpretation of what it says,

    THIS TO ME IS THE MYSTERIOUS WAY OF GOD TO SEPARATE HIS CHOSEN ONES ,what you think ?

    #362538
    Wakeup
    Participant

    And the *Word* spoken was *made flesh* and dwelleth amongst men. *HE* is the light of the world.
    Without him there is no life.
    Without *HIM* we can not come to God.
    Without *HIM* we are lost.
    The 10 commandments can not save us from death.

    wakeup.

    #362556
    Lightenup
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2013,20:26)
    Here's an example, Kathi:

    2 Chronicles 35:6 KJV
    6 So kill the passover, and sanctify yourselves, and prepare your brethren, that they may do according to the word of the LORD by the hand of Moses.

    Did Moses actually carry this PERSON (the word of YHWH) in his hand?

    Or does “word of YHWH” simply refer to the commands YHWH had given them through Moses?


    Mike,
    I was writing about how the Targums substituted the name 'Jehovah' with 'the Word of Jehovah.' I understand your rabbit trail but it really does not address how the Targums equated Jehovah with 'the Word of Jehovah' when Jehovah appeared and spoke.

    If the Jews back then in John's day heard the term 'the Word' and the 'Word was God,' they would likely relate it to how the OT Jews used 'the Word of Jehovah' to replace the name 'Jehovah' when Jehovah was seen and or heard.

    It seems that the Jews were very well aware of the scriptures and the Targum understandings of the scriptures.

    The ongoing argument of whether there is an 'a god' or 'the God' or just 'God' is just chasing the wind and getting nowhere.

    Jehovah a was with Jehovah b in the beginning. Jehovah a was begotten, Jehovah b begot Jehovah a. Both are eternal, both have the same attributes and together they form one ruler-ship. We need to believe in both for our salvation. Both receive the same blessing, the same honor, the same glory, and the same might.

    #362560
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 24 2013,03:18)

    Quote (jammin @ Nov. 23 2013,13:40)

    Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 23 2013,14:26)

    Quote (jammin @ Nov. 23 2013,07:03)

    Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 23 2013,06:27)

    Quote (jammin @ Nov. 22 2013,14:54)

    Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 21 2013,13:31)

    Quote (jammin @ Nov. 21 2013,07:54)
    kerwin,

    ill repeat what i said. the version said the Word was God.
    the version also said the Word was divine BUT NO VERSION SAYS GOD IS LIKE HIS WORD IN JOHN1.1

    you said GOD is like his word. now im asking you where can you find that in john 1.1.

    we are now at page 1047 but i  still get no answer from you boy


    Jammin,

    Any version that can be interpreted to be true will do if you understand the truth.

    So do you believe both God and his word are divine.


    cant you read my posts??

    i said the version said the WORD was GOD. some versions said the WORD was divine but no version said GOD IS LIKE HIS WORD

    how can you win the case if you dont have materials to provide?

    this is very obvious that you just waNT TO POLLUTE THE MINDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE.
    praise the LORD because the bible clearly tells us that THE WORD WAS CHRIST HIMSELF. he was DIVINE and he was GOD.

    John 1:1

    New Life Version (NLV)
    Christ Lived Before the World Was Made

    1 The Word (Christ) was in the beginning. The Word was with God. The Word was God.

    this topic should now be closed. it is no longer profitable to talk to false teachers like you kerwin. you say non sense words.


    Jammin,

    The word divine means godlike.

    godlike

    Quote
    Synonyms
       blessed (also blest), divine, holy, godly, heavenly, sacred, supernatural

    Note: godlike


    the word godlike is not the same as  “GOD IS LIKE HIS WORD.”

    do you know english boy???

    i think you should go back to elementary school


    Jammin,

    You are the one arguing with an English dictionary, not me.


    im not arguing with it.
    you are saying words that are not written in the dictionary.

    what dictionary can you give that says that the meaning of the word “godlike” is GOD IS LIKE HIS WORD?

    make your own dictionary LOL


    Jammin,

    So, do you agree that divine, godlike, godly, and the like are words that mean the same but sound different?  It sounds like you do.

    You instead do not believe that God's Utterance is like him even though both God and his word framed the worlds and ages.

    These are the words of a Jew of that time speaking of the word.

    Quote
    Now the image of God is the Word, by which all the world was made.” (The Special Laws, I, XVI, 81).

    That is what Jew like John in the same age as John.

    Note: I obtained the quote from Philo of Alexander on the word here.


    There is no version that says God is like his word. Stop fooling people. I cant imagine that you are not afraid of altering the words of the bible. I think you need to go back to gradeschool bec your reasoning is like a kid who does not know how to read properly. The bible said the Word was God. The bible said the Word was divine. The bible did not say God is like his word. Only a moron can say that

    #362561
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 24 2013,08:30)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2013,20:26)
    Here's an example, Kathi:

    2 Chronicles 35:6 KJV
    6 So kill the passover, and sanctify yourselves, and prepare your brethren, that they may do according to the word of the LORD by the hand of Moses.

    Did Moses actually carry this PERSON (the word of YHWH) in his hand?

    Or does “word of YHWH” simply refer to the commands YHWH had given them through Moses?


    Mike,
    I was writing about how the Targums substituted the name 'Jehovah' with 'the Word of Jehovah.' I understand your rabbit trail but it really does not address how the Targums equated Jehovah with 'the Word of Jehovah' when Jehovah appeared and spoke.

    If the Jews back then in John's day heard the term 'the Word' and the 'Word was God,' they would likely relate it to how the OT Jews used 'the Word of Jehovah' to replace the name 'Jehovah' when Jehovah was seen and or heard.

    It seems that the Jews were very well aware of the scriptures and the Targum understandings of the scriptures.

    The ongoing argument of whether there is an 'a god' or 'the God' or just 'God' is just chasing the wind and getting nowhere.

    Jehovah a was with Jehovah b in the beginning. Jehovah a was begotten, Jehovah b begot Jehovah a. Both are eternal, both have the same attributes and together they form one ruler-ship. We need to believe in both for our salvation. Both receive the same blessing, the same honor, the same glory, and the same might.


    LU,

    Do you know why they replaced the God's name with his utterance?

    God spoke his word and all of creation came to be.

    #362562
    jammin
    Participant

    Kerwin
    Do you really understand english?it seems that you have no knowledge about the language. The special laws say the image of God is the Word. It didnt say the image of God is his word.

    #362563
    kerwin
    Participant

    Jammin,

    Philo, a Jew, was a was speaking of the divine word.

    #362564
    jammin
    Participant

    Study hard kerwin

    #362565
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Nov. 24 2013,10:21)
    Study hard kerwin


    Jammin,

    I have chosen to stop clinging to the things of this world and seek and his righteousness instead.

    #362568
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 24 2013,10:02)

    Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 24 2013,08:30)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2013,20:26)
    Here's an example, Kathi:

    2 Chronicles 35:6 KJV
    6 So kill the passover, and sanctify yourselves, and prepare your brethren, that they may do according to the word of the LORD by the hand of Moses.

    Did Moses actually carry this PERSON (the word of YHWH) in his hand?

    Or does “word of YHWH” simply refer to the commands YHWH had given them through Moses?


    Mike,
    I was writing about how the Targums substituted the name 'Jehovah' with 'the Word of Jehovah.' I understand your rabbit trail but it really does not address how the Targums equated Jehovah with 'the Word of Jehovah' when Jehovah appeared and spoke.

    If the Jews back then in John's day heard the term 'the Word' and the 'Word was God,' they would likely relate it to how the OT Jews used 'the Word of Jehovah' to replace the name 'Jehovah' when Jehovah was seen and or heard.

    It seems that the Jews were very well aware of the scriptures and the Targum understandings of the scriptures.

    The ongoing argument of whether there is an 'a god' or 'the God' or just 'God' is just chasing the wind and getting nowhere.

    Jehovah a was with Jehovah b in the beginning. Jehovah a was begotten, Jehovah b begot Jehovah a. Both are eternal, both have the same attributes and together they form one ruler-ship. We need to believe in both for our salvation. Both receive the same blessing, the same honor, the same glory, and the same might.


    LU,

    Do you know why they replaced the God's name with his utterance?

    God spoke his word and all of creation came to be.


    K

    Tell me did God created his heavenly sons before ,but after his only begotten son ,he created the universe and all that it composes or after all creation was completed ???

    #362575
    942767
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 24 2013,05:51)

    Quote (942767 @ Nov. 23 2013,20:32)

    Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 22 2013,10:25)

    Quote (942767 @ Nov. 22 2013,04:22)
    Hi Pierre:

    Quote
    now you think that the words that where said by the prophets is less important than the words that Christ said right ???

    your are wrong ,you have mist the truth ,and I getting tire to say and show the scriptures to the truth of God ,over and over again ,it seems you do not understand the meaning of them

    Quit putting words in my mouth.  I did not say any thing about what Word of God was more or less important.

    But no other prophet obeyed the Word of God without sin unto death on the cross.

    And so if you are tired of my giving you my understanding of the scriptures, then quit responding to my posts.

    Have you ever considered that it might just be you that is wrong?

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Marty

    MT 23:35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
    LK 11:51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation

    I do not put words in your mouth ,but your logic of explaining things brings you to that version of events,
    THE WORDS SPOKEN BY GOD ARE ALL OF EQUAL POWER ,THE ONE THAT SAYS THEM BECOMES IRRELEVANT TO WHAT IS SPOKEN,BUT IN THE CASE OF CHRIST IT WAS NOT THE WORDS ONLY THAT HE SPOOKED BECAUSE THE WORDS HE SPOOKED WHERE ALREADY WRITTEN AND RECORDED BY PREVIOUS PROPHETS ,BUT IT IS HIS SPECIAL   ACTION THAT HE DID ,;FOR THAT IS WHY HE WAS SEND DOWN FROM THE FATHER TO FULFILL THOSE ACTIONS IN THE NAME OF HIS TRUE FATHER AND GOD,SO THAT “THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD IS COMPLETE WITH THE ACTIONS THAT WAS WRITTEN IN IT ;SO THAT GOD'S GLORY WOULD BECOME COMPLETE ,”

    Quote
    your are wrong ,you have mist the truth ,and I getting tire to say and show the scriptures to the truth of God ,over and over again ,it seems you do not understand the meaning of them

    I LET YOU WITH YOUR OWN MIND TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG ;


    Hi Pierre:

    The point that was being made by the scriptures posted is that the “Word” or the Word of God is not a person, but is that which He has spoken.

    And yes, I will discern the truth through God's Word, even if you disagree with what I have written:

    This is what Jesus said:

    Quote

    Jhn 17:14

    I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

    Jhn 17:15

    I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

    Jhn 17:16

    They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.  

    Jhn 17:17

    Sanctify them through thy truth:thy word is truth.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Marty

    Quote
    Hi Pierre:

    The point that was being made by the scriptures posted is that the “Word” or the Word of God is not a person, but is that which He has spoken.

    And yes, I will discern the truth through God's Word, even if you disagree with what I have written:

    This is what Jesus said:

    well their is our different understanding ;from God's written word ;this is not new ,is it ;?

    Quote
    And yes, I will discern the truth through God's Word,

    I always wander why we (and many) read the written scriptures and yet find different interpretation of what it says,

    THIS TO ME IS THE MYSTERIOUS WAY OF GOD TO SEPARATE HIS CHOSEN ONES ,what you think ?


    Hi Pierre:

    I think that God is not the author of confusion, and so it must be that other guy.

    It is not my interpretation or yours that matters but God's Word that is the truth.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #362583
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 23 2013,10:18)
    These are the words of a Jew of that time speaking of the word.

    Quote
    Now the image of God is the Word, by which all the world was made.” (The Special Laws, I, XVI, 81).

    That is what Jew like John in the same age as John.


    Now just change the word “by” to “through”, since in this use it means “through” anyway – and then add these words from Tertullian:  He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing is created is another.

    The source you quoted is saying the same thing Pierre and I have been telling you for years, Kerwin:  God, alone and by Himself, created all things.  And God chose to do that THROUGH His Word – AKA “Jesus Christ”.

    Look at your quote………… Now the image of God is “the Word”…….  WHO is called “the image of God” in scripture?  (Col 1:15)

    And your quote says…… by (THROUGH) which all the world was made.

    WHO exactly were all things made THROUGH?  (Col 1:16, Heb 1:2, 1 Cor 8:6)

    And consider that last scripture – 1 Cor 8:6……….

    yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

    I ask you one simple question – to which I'd like a DIRECT and HONEST answer:  Does the verse above teach us that all things came FROM Jesus Christ?  Or is there a DIFFERENCE between “FROM” and “THROUGH”? Which one please?

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