John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 12,041 through 12,060 (of 26,009 total)
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  • #336957
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 25 2013,12:23)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 25 2013,06:29)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,13:09)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 22 2013,08:06)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,13:00)
    I don't see the words “MOST HIGH God” in that translation.  Do you?

    Also, you posted before I added this to the last post:

    And wasn't that the test to know Satan is not the MOST HIGH God?  If he is listed as someone OTHER THAN the MOST HIGH God, then he can't possibly BE the MOST HIGH God, right?

    jammin, do you agree with me that ONLY the MOST HIGH God should get the capital “G”?


    is that the only verse of the bible. are you saying mark 5.7?

    read rev 1.7-8

    yes the G should be given to the true God and that is the father and the son and the HS.

    they have the same nature, God.

    you and your father are both Human.
    you have the same nature boy and accept that. you are not an animal. you are HUman just like your father., if you feel hunger, then your father also feels that. if you do not know all things, then your father also do not know all things. you are not all powerful, and your father is also not all poweful. you are limited mike and also your father bec you are HUMAN.

    do you understand that?


    Jimmy

    Quote
    you and your father are both Human.

    YES ,BUT I AM NOT MY FATHER AND MY FATHER HIS NOT ME, AND WHAT I WANT IS NOT WHAT MY FATHER WANTS ,


    now you accept that you and your father are both Human by nature.

    i did not say that the father is the son. i did not say that the son is the father. the son is not the father. the father is not the son BUT THEY HAVE the same nature and that is nature God.

    they are both God (not god) by nature.

    Philippians 2:6

    New International Version (NIV)

    6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,


    yes but the almighty God created the son god ,in his nature

    so you have two gods but only one ALMIGHTY GOD  and one leaser god

    the one god that  is created can not be equal to the one that created him ,right ???


    no verse that says that God created his son.
    that is your opinion.

    you do not understand what paul said in col. read trhe context boy

    #336958
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 25 2013,11:41)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 25 2013,06:29)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,13:09)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 22 2013,08:06)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,13:00)
    I don't see the words “MOST HIGH God” in that translation.  Do you?

    Also, you posted before I added this to the last post:

    And wasn't that the test to know Satan is not the MOST HIGH God?  If he is listed as someone OTHER THAN the MOST HIGH God, then he can't possibly BE the MOST HIGH God, right?

    jammin, do you agree with me that ONLY the MOST HIGH God should get the capital “G”?


    is that the only verse of the bible. are you saying mark 5.7?

    read rev 1.7-8

    yes the G should be given to the true God and that is the father and the son and the HS.

    they have the same nature, God.

    you and your father are both Human.
    you have the same nature boy and accept that. you are not an animal. you are HUman just like your father., if you feel hunger, then your father also feels that. if you do not know all things, then your father also do not know all things. you are not all powerful, and your father is also not all poweful. you are limited mike and also your father bec you are HUMAN.

    do you understand that?


    Jimmy

    Quote
    you and your father are both Human.

    YES ,BUT I AM NOT MY FATHER AND MY FATHER HIS NOT ME, AND WHAT I WANT IS NOT WHAT MY FATHER WANTS ,


    now you accept that you and your father are both Human by nature.

    i did not say that the father is the son. i did not say that the son is the father. the son is not the father. the father is not the son BUT THEY HAVE the same nature and that is nature God.

    they are both God (not god) by nature.

    Philippians 2:6

    New International Version (NIV)

    6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,


    Jammin,

    Do you accept that there is only one of the kind God and many of the kind human?


    no. you have the same nature just like your father. you are both HUMAN>

    accept that Christ is just like his father. they are both God

    #336961
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 26 2013,10:16)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 25 2013,12:23)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 25 2013,06:29)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,13:09)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 22 2013,08:06)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,13:00)
    I don't see the words “MOST HIGH God” in that translation.  Do you?

    Also, you posted before I added this to the last post:

    And wasn't that the test to know Satan is not the MOST HIGH God?  If he is listed as someone OTHER THAN the MOST HIGH God, then he can't possibly BE the MOST HIGH God, right?

    jammin, do you agree with me that ONLY the MOST HIGH God should get the capital “G”?


    is that the only verse of the bible. are you saying mark 5.7?

    read rev 1.7-8

    yes the G should be given to the true God and that is the father and the son and the HS.

    they have the same nature, God.

    you and your father are both Human.
    you have the same nature boy and accept that. you are not an animal. you are HUman just like your father., if you feel hunger, then your father also feels that. if you do not know all things, then your father also do not know all things. you are not all powerful, and your father is also not all poweful. you are limited mike and also your father bec you are HUMAN.

    do you understand that?


    Jimmy

    Quote
    you and your father are both Human.

    YES ,BUT I AM NOT MY FATHER AND MY FATHER HIS NOT ME, AND WHAT I WANT IS NOT WHAT MY FATHER WANTS ,


    now you accept that you and your father are both Human by nature.

    i did not say that the father is the son. i did not say that the son is the father. the son is not the father. the father is not the son BUT THEY HAVE the same nature and that is nature God.

    they are both God (not god) by nature.

    Philippians 2:6

    New International Version (NIV)

    6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,


    yes but the almighty God created the son god ,in his nature

    so you have two gods but only one ALMIGHTY GOD  and one leaser god

    the one god that  is created can not be equal to the one that created him ,right ???


    no verse that says that God created his son.
    that is your opinion.

    you do not understand what paul said in col. read trhe context boy


    to me the son of a king in line for the throne his a leaser king

    what is so difficult to understand ???

    but if you think i have all wrong ,sins the beginning ,and that my understanding as to be made anew ;please show me the way ,

    and show me the scriptures that I so mist or overlooked ,

    I do have read the bible about 40 times front to back and that is not counting the books I read 50,60,100,times

    but yes their always could be improvement to my understanding ,so go for it ;I BE LIKE A BABE TO YOU :)

    #337044
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    jammin, do you agree with me that ONLY the MOST HIGH God should get the capital “G”? YES or NO?

    #337046
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 25 2013,22:16)
    no verse that says that God created his son.


    Colossians 1:15
    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

    Revelation 3:14
    To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:

    Proverbs 8:22
    The Lord created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.

    #337055
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2013,12:30)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 25 2013,22:16)
    no verse that says that God created his son.


    Colossians 1:15
    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

    Revelation 3:14
    To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:

    Proverbs 8:22
    The Lord created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.


    col 1.15 and rev 3.14 are right but your interpretation about the verses are wrong.

    prov 8.22 is not about Christ boy. read the context.

    col 1.15 did not say God created but the firstborn of all creation. those words are not the same.

    rev 3.14 says beginning of the creation of God and not created by God. it has a different meaning boy.

    col 1.15 and rev 3.14 speaks about the supremacy of Christ over all creation.
    that is why some version says OVER ALL.

    let me post that
    Colossians 1:15 (New International Version)

    The Supremacy of the Son of God
    15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

    study hard boy

    #337056
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 26 2013,15:46)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 26 2013,10:16)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 25 2013,12:23)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 25 2013,06:29)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,13:09)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 22 2013,08:06)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,13:00)
    I don't see the words “MOST HIGH God” in that translation.  Do you?

    Also, you posted before I added this to the last post:

    And wasn't that the test to know Satan is not the MOST HIGH God?  If he is listed as someone OTHER THAN the MOST HIGH God, then he can't possibly BE the MOST HIGH God, right?

    jammin, do you agree with me that ONLY the MOST HIGH God should get the capital “G”?


    is that the only verse of the bible. are you saying mark 5.7?

    read rev 1.7-8

    yes the G should be given to the true God and that is the father and the son and the HS.

    they have the same nature, God.

    you and your father are both Human.
    you have the same nature boy and accept that. you are not an animal. you are HUman just like your father., if you feel hunger, then your father also feels that. if you do not know all things, then your father also do not know all things. you are not all powerful, and your father is also not all poweful. you are limited mike and also your father bec you are HUMAN.

    do you understand that?


    Jimmy

    Quote
    you and your father are both Human.

    YES ,BUT I AM NOT MY FATHER AND MY FATHER HIS NOT ME, AND WHAT I WANT IS NOT WHAT MY FATHER WANTS ,


    now you accept that you and your father are both Human by nature.

    i did not say that the father is the son. i did not say that the son is the father. the son is not the father. the father is not the son BUT THEY HAVE the same nature and that is nature God.

    they are both God (not god) by nature.

    Philippians 2:6

    New International Version (NIV)

    6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,


    yes but the almighty God created the son god ,in his nature

    so you have two gods but only one ALMIGHTY GOD  and one leaser god

    the one god that  is created can not be equal to the one that created him ,right ???


    no verse that says that God created his son.
    that is your opinion.

    you do not understand what paul said in col. read trhe context boy


    to me the son of a king in line for the throne his a leaser king

    what is so difficult to understand ???

    but if you think i have all wrong ,sins the beginning ,and that my understanding as to be made anew ;please show me the way ,

    and show me the scriptures that I so mist or overlooked ,

    I do have read the bible about 40 times front to back and that is not counting the books I read 50,60,100,times

    but yes their always could be improvement to my understanding ,so go for it ;I BE LIKE A BABE TO YOU  :)


    i need verse and not stories. your words are non sense

    #337057
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 27 2013,08:28)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 26 2013,15:46)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 26 2013,10:16)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 25 2013,12:23)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 25 2013,06:29)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,13:09)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 22 2013,08:06)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,13:00)
    I don't see the words “MOST HIGH God” in that translation.  Do you?

    Also, you posted before I added this to the last post:

    And wasn't that the test to know Satan is not the MOST HIGH God?  If he is listed as someone OTHER THAN the MOST HIGH God, then he can't possibly BE the MOST HIGH God, right?

    jammin, do you agree with me that ONLY the MOST HIGH God should get the capital “G”?


    is that the only verse of the bible. are you saying mark 5.7?

    read rev 1.7-8

    yes the G should be given to the true God and that is the father and the son and the HS.

    they have the same nature, God.

    you and your father are both Human.
    you have the same nature boy and accept that. you are not an animal. you are HUman just like your father., if you feel hunger, then your father also feels that. if you do not know all things, then your father also do not know all things. you are not all powerful, and your father is also not all poweful. you are limited mike and also your father bec you are HUMAN.

    do you understand that?


    Jimmy

    Quote
    you and your father are both Human.

    YES ,BUT I AM NOT MY FATHER AND MY FATHER HIS NOT ME, AND WHAT I WANT IS NOT WHAT MY FATHER WANTS ,


    now you accept that you and your father are both Human by nature.

    i did not say that the father is the son. i did not say that the son is the father. the son is not the father. the father is not the son BUT THEY HAVE the same nature and that is nature God.

    they are both God (not god) by nature.

    Philippians 2:6

    New International Version (NIV)

    6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,


    yes but the almighty God created the son god ,in his nature

    so you have two gods but only one ALMIGHTY GOD  and one leaser god

    the one god that  is created can not be equal to the one that created him ,right ???


    no verse that says that God created his son.
    that is your opinion.

    you do not understand what paul said in col. read trhe context boy


    to me the son of a king in line for the throne his a leaser king

    what is so difficult to understand ???

    but if you think i have all wrong ,sins the beginning ,and that my understanding as to be made anew ;please show me the way ,

    and show me the scriptures that I so mist or overlooked ,

    I do have read the bible about 40 times front to back and that is not counting the books I read 50,60,100,times

    but yes their always could be improvement to my understanding ,so go for it ;I BE LIKE A BABE TO YOU  :)


    i need verse and not stories. your words are non sense


    Jimmy

    show me the scriptures ,and show me how all your understanding reflects the wisdom of God ,the God that never changes ,

    please tell me ;show it to me verse by verse

    #337108
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 27 2013,13:31)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 27 2013,08:28)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 26 2013,15:46)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 26 2013,10:16)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 25 2013,12:23)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 25 2013,06:29)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,13:09)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 22 2013,08:06)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,13:00)
    I don't see the words “MOST HIGH God” in that translation.  Do you?

    Also, you posted before I added this to the last post:

    And wasn't that the test to know Satan is not the MOST HIGH God?  If he is listed as someone OTHER THAN the MOST HIGH God, then he can't possibly BE the MOST HIGH God, right?

    jammin, do you agree with me that ONLY the MOST HIGH God should get the capital “G”?


    is that the only verse of the bible. are you saying mark 5.7?

    read rev 1.7-8

    yes the G should be given to the true God and that is the father and the son and the HS.

    they have the same nature, God.

    you and your father are both Human.
    you have the same nature boy and accept that. you are not an animal. you are HUman just like your father., if you feel hunger, then your father also feels that. if you do not know all things, then your father also do not know all things. you are not all powerful, and your father is also not all poweful. you are limited mike and also your father bec you are HUMAN.

    do you understand that?


    Jimmy

    Quote
    you and your father are both Human.

    YES ,BUT I AM NOT MY FATHER AND MY FATHER HIS NOT ME, AND WHAT I WANT IS NOT WHAT MY FATHER WANTS ,


    now you accept that you and your father are both Human by nature.

    i did not say that the father is the son. i did not say that the son is the father. the son is not the father. the father is not the son BUT THEY HAVE the same nature and that is nature God.

    they are both God (not god) by nature.

    Philippians 2:6

    New International Version (NIV)

    6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,


    yes but the almighty God created the son god ,in his nature

    so you have two gods but only one ALMIGHTY GOD  and one leaser god

    the one god that  is created can not be equal to the one that created him ,right ???


    no verse that says that God created his son.
    that is your opinion.

    you do not understand what paul said in col. read trhe context boy


    to me the son of a king in line for the throne his a leaser king

    what is so difficult to understand ???

    but if you think i have all wrong ,sins the beginning ,and that my understanding as to be made anew ;please show me the way ,

    and show me the scriptures that I so mist or overlooked ,

    I do have read the bible about 40 times front to back and that is not counting the books I read 50,60,100,times

    but yes their always could be improvement to my understanding ,so go for it ;I BE LIKE A BABE TO YOU  :)


    i need verse and not stories. your words are non sense


    Jimmy

    show me the scriptures ,and show me how all your understanding reflects the wisdom of God ,the God that never changes ,

    please tell me ;show it to me verse by verse


    what verse do you want

    #337110
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 28 2013,02:42)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 27 2013,13:31)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 27 2013,08:28)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 26 2013,15:46)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 26 2013,10:16)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 25 2013,12:23)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 25 2013,06:29)

    Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 22 2013,13:09)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 22 2013,08:06)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,13:00)
    I don't see the words “MOST HIGH God” in that translation.  Do you?

    Also, you posted before I added this to the last post:

    And wasn't that the test to know Satan is not the MOST HIGH God?  If he is listed as someone OTHER THAN the MOST HIGH God, then he can't possibly BE the MOST HIGH God, right?

    jammin, do you agree with me that ONLY the MOST HIGH God should get the capital “G”?


    is that the only verse of the bible. are you saying mark 5.7?

    read rev 1.7-8

    yes the G should be given to the true God and that is the father and the son and the HS.

    they have the same nature, God.

    you and your father are both Human.
    you have the same nature boy and accept that. you are not an animal. you are HUman just like your father., if you feel hunger, then your father also feels that. if you do not know all things, then your father also do not know all things. you are not all powerful, and your father is also not all poweful. you are limited mike and also your father bec you are HUMAN.

    do you understand that?


    Jimmy

    Quote
    you and your father are both Human.

    YES ,BUT I AM NOT MY FATHER AND MY FATHER HIS NOT ME, AND WHAT I WANT IS NOT WHAT MY FATHER WANTS ,


    now you accept that you and your father are both Human by nature.

    i did not say that the father is the son. i did not say that the son is the father. the son is not the father. the father is not the son BUT THEY HAVE the same nature and that is nature God.

    they are both God (not god) by nature.

    Philippians 2:6

    New International Version (NIV)

    6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,


    yes but the almighty God created the son god ,in his nature

    so you have two gods but only one ALMIGHTY GOD  and one leaser god

    the one god that  is created can not be equal to the one that created him ,right ???


    no verse that says that God created his son.
    that is your opinion.

    you do not understand what paul said in col. read trhe context boy


    to me the son of a king in line for the throne his a leaser king

    what is so difficult to understand ???

    but if you think i have all wrong ,sins the beginning ,and that my understanding as to be made anew ;please show me the way ,

    and show me the scriptures that I so mist or overlooked ,

    I do have read the bible about 40 times front to back and that is not counting the books I read 50,60,100,times

    but yes their always could be improvement to my understanding ,so go for it ;I BE LIKE A BABE TO YOU  :)


    i need verse and not stories. your words are non sense


    Jimmy

    show me the scriptures ,and show me how all your understanding reflects the wisdom of God ,the God that never changes ,

    please tell me ;show it to me verse by verse


    what verse do you  want


    perhaps the ones that says that Christ his God almighty ???

    or the one that says being in the similar nature of God almighty makes you God almighty ???

    #337113
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 26 2013,20:27)
    col 1.15 did not say God created but the firstborn of all creation. those words are not the same.

    rev 3.14 says beginning of the creation of God and not created by God. it has a different meaning boy.


    jammin,

    Who do you think was the first being God ever created? One of His angels? I'm just asking for you opinion.

    Oh, and please answer this question I keep asking (because I couldn't tell from the other post if you answered it):

    jammin, do you agree with me that ONLY the MOST HIGH God should get the capital “G”? YES or NO?

    #337144
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=mikeboll64,Feb. 22 2013,13:00][/quote]

    Quote
    I still don't see a scripture that says Jesus is the MOST HIGH God,

    Mike,  

    Word by word you will not see, but IN equivalent meaning there is!

    Read.

    John 14:9 Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also.

    So the above it is a clear diclaration from Jesus that:

    Jesus is God Almighty visible. denying this you will call Jesus a LIAR.

    ALSO GOD ALMIGHTY IS A SPIRIT AS ALWAYS HAD BEEN. SO GOD ALMIGHTY, THROUGH GLORIFICATION,HAS TWO ENTITIES NOT ONE LIKE HE HAD.

    ONE ENTITY AS A SPIRIT, AND ANOTHER ENTITY AS BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH BUT IN JESUS WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT! THE WORD!

    BE AWARE ALSO THAT GOD ALMIGHTY IS MORE POWERFUL AS JESUS. THE WORD. NOT AS THE FATHER! THE FATHER WOULD BE SO ON THE LAST DAY,WHEN HE WOULD BE ALL IN ALL.

    THIS IS DECLARED HERE:

    John 20:17 : …………………….I ascend to my Father and to your Father, to my God and your God.

    SO JESUS HAS ASCENDED IN THE GLORY OF BOTH OF HIS FATHER'S (SPIRIT) AND THAT OF OUR FATHER( HUMAN FLESH)

    AND BOTH AS HIS GOD (CREATOR OF ALL CREATED SPIRITS) AND OF OUR GOD( CREATOR OF ALL FLESH)

    THIS IS DECLARED HERE:

    JOHN 17:2 As thou hast given him power OVER ALL FLESH,

    SO JESUS HAS RECREATED THE ENTIRE CREATION IN HIMSELF THROUGH HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS, AND OPENED THE DOOR TO HEAVEN, TO ALL PREVIOUS SAINTS,AND TO ALL THOSE WHO WERE IN HELL AND BELIEVED HIS GOSPEL.
    THIS WAS NOT POSSIBLE FOR THE FATHER AS A SPIRIT. SO SINCE ALL IS POSSIBLE FOR GOD, JESUS THEREFORE WAS GOD IN FLESH.

    Father that he( JESUS, THE WORD, GOD IN FLESH, THE ONLY TRUE GOD SINCE HE GIVES ETERNAL LIFE TO ALL SINNERS) may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.

    AGAIN CONFIRMED HERE:

    Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, THROUGH JESUS, THE WORD, GOD IN FLESH, SINCE AS A SPIRIT THEY (HUMANS) NEVER KNEW HIM the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
    PURPOSELY TO BE VISIBLE ON EARTH AND MANIFEST ALL ALMIGHTY GOD'S ATTRIBUTES

    CONFIRMED HEREUNDER:

    John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth;

    JESUS THE WORD, GLORIFIED THE FATHER ON EARTH, AS GOD IN FLESH. DECLARED HERE:

    I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

    SO JESUS THE WORD, GOD IN FLESH DID THE WORK!!! JESUS THE WORD, GOD IN FLESH RAISED ALL THE DEAD, HEALED ALL THE SICK, FED 5000 PEOPLE WITH THREE LOAVES, AND TWO FISH, CHANGED THE WATER INTO A UNIQE WINE.

    SO IF JESUS CONFIRMED THAT HE DID THE WORK, HE IS TRUELY THE ONLY GOD IN THE TRUTH! HE HAD EVERY RIGHT TO CALL HIMSELF THE TRUTH

    5 And now glorify you me, O Father, WITH YOURSELF,

    THIS IS ANOTHER CONFIRMATION THAT THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE IN ONE GLORY THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

    THEY BECAME ONE ENTITIY!

    SO JESUS WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ALMIGHTY GOD GLORIFIED IN A UNIQUE BODY OF BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH!

    with the glory which I had, before the world was, with thee.

    NOTICE HE SAID ,BEFORE THE WOLRD WAS !

    SO CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT THE WORLD WAS CREATED BEFORE THE REBEL,SINCE AFTER THE REBEL LUCIFER WAS THROWN IN THE WORLD IN ORDER FOR GOD TO RECREATE IT THROUGH DARKNESS, (GENESIS 1:2)
    IT IS DEFINITELY CLEAR THAT JESUS REFERED TO GOD’S GLORY WHEN NOTHING WAS EVER CREATED YET. SO AGAIN JESUS WAS IN ONE GLORY WITH THE FATHER BUT BOTH OF THEM AS ONE SPIRIT.

    SO YES THERE ISN'T ANY SENTENCE IN THE BIBLE,WORD BY WORD, WHICH STATES THAT JESUS IS THE MOST HIGH GOD,
    BUT THERE ARE ENOUGH WHICH STATES THE EQUIVALENT.

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #337145
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 28 2013,08:59)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 26 2013,20:27)
    col 1.15 did not say God created but the firstborn of all creation. those words are not the same.

    rev 3.14 says beginning of the creation of God and not created by God. it has a different meaning boy.


    jammin,

    Who do you think was the first being God ever created?  One of His angels?  I'm just asking for you opinion.

    Oh, and please answer this question I keep asking (because I couldn't tell from the other post if you answered it):

    jammin, do you agree with me that ONLY the MOST HIGH God should get the capital “G”?  YES or NO?


    Quote
    Who do you think was the first being God ever created?

    Mike,

    LUCIFER!

    #337147
    terraricca
    Participant

    carmel

    Quote
    ohn 14:9 Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also.

    So the above it is a clear diclaration from Jesus that:

    Jesus is God Almighty visible. denying this you will call Jesus a LIAR.

    SO TO YOU GOD ALMIGHTY HIS A MAN ,RIGHT

    #337234
    carmel
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 01 2013,07:01)
    [/quote]
    [quote=terraricca,Mar. 01 2013,07:01]


    Quote
    S
    SO TO YOU GOD ALMIGHTY HIS A MAN ,RIGHT

    Terraricca,

    It seems to me that you might have read all my post, but you only remember what you feel, and suits your mentality in a way that you completely twist all the meaning.

    THIS IS WHAT I SAID ABOUT GOD ALMIGHTY:

    John 14:9 Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also.

    So the above it is a clear declaration from Jesus that:

    Jesus is God Almighty visible.

    WHAT DOES IT MEAN THAT IF YOU SEE JESUS, YOU SEE GOD ALMIGHTY TO YOU??? CAN’T YOU GET IT INTO YOUR MIND THAT GOD IS A SPIRIT FROM  ETERNITY TO ETERNITY. IF JESUS, THE WORD, IS THE ONLY IMAGE GOD HAS, HOW CAN YOU DENY IT???

    the word is GOD ALMIGHTY IN A DIFFERENT FUNCTION WITHIN HIS SON IN A WAY THAT ALTHOUGH HE REMAINED A SPIRIT, HE ALSO POSSESSED A FLESH BODY WITHIN JESUS' SOUL AND FIRST HE WALKED ON EARTH, THEN HE GLORIFIED BOTH HIMSELF AND HIS SON, AND BECAME ONE ENTITY IN BOTH SPIRIT AND  FLESH WITHOUT LOSING HIS ORIGINAL STATE OF A SPIRIT.

    denying this you will call Jesus a LIAR.

    SO GOD ALMIGHTY IS A SPIRIT AS ALWAYS HAD BEEN,

    THAT IS THE FIRST ENTITY WHICH BELONG TO GOD ALMIGHTY.

    AND ALSO :GOD BOTH AS SPIRIT AND FLESH UNITED IN THE WORD, JESUS .

    THAT IS THE SECOND ENTITY WHICH BELONG TO GOD ALMIGHTY

    SO GOD ALMIGHTY, THROUGH GLORIFICATION,HAS TWO ENTITIES NOT ONE LIKE HE HAD, SPIRIT ONLY.THAT’S WHY THERE ARE TWO THRONES IN  HEAVEN, ONE FOR THE FATHER SPIRIT, INVISIBLE SEEN ONLY BY HIS SON THE WORD, AND ONE FOR JESUS, THE WORD MADE FLESH VISIBLE FOR ETERNITY,AND FOR ALL SPIRITS TO ADMIRE THE UNIQUE STATE GOD  ALMIGHTY ACHIEVED AND BECAME THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

    KEEP IN MIND THAT NO ONE CAN SEE THE FATHER NOT EVEN NOW!!! THE ONLY GOD THAT CAN BE SEEN IS JESUS, THE WORD!!!

    BUT THERE ARE STILL HIS ENEMIES, LIKE YOU AND JEHOVAH WITNESSES WHO DENIES THIS, AND THE FATHER IS WORKING IN ORDER TO MAKE THEM JESUS’ FOOTSTOOL!!!

    NOW READ AGAIN AND UNDERSTAND IN SIMPLE ENGLISH WHAT I SAID  ABOUT GOD ALMIGHTY AND DO NOT TWIST IT.

    DENYING HEREUNDER YOU CONFIRM THAT JESUS DIED FOR NOTHNG, AND GOD ALMIGHTY HAS FAILED IN ACHIEVING WHAT HE WANTED TO ACHIEVE THROUGH THE WORD , JESUS CHRIST.

    WHICH IS THAT HE BECAME THE GOD OF ALL FLESH THROUGH JESUS' BODY!!

    ONE ENTITY AS A SPIRIT, AND ANOTHER ENTITY AS BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH BUT IN JESUS WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT!  THE WORD!

    BE AWARE ALSO THAT GOD ALMIGHTY IS MORE POWERFUL IN JESUS. THE WORD. THEN AS THE FATHER SPIRIT ONLY!
    SINCE JESUS, THE WORD INHERITED ALL SO THE FATHER IS NOT FUNCTIONING AT ALL.

    BUT IN THE SAME TIME HE IS IN FULL FUNCTION IN HIS OTHER STATE, ENTITY,NATURE, OF BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH IN THE WORD, JESUS, THE ONLY TRUE GOD

    THE ABOVE IS THE THIRD ENTITY THAT I STATED ABOUT GOD ALMIGHTY.  IT SAYS CLEAR ENOUGH THAT GOD ALMIGHTY AS A SPIRIT, IS NOT AS POWERFUL AS HE IS IN JESUS NOW, AND HE WILL REMAIN SO TILL THE LAST DAY.

    YOU CANNOT SEE THIS SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU DENY THAT JESUS AS A PERSON,HAD TWO SEPARATE NATURES WHILE ON EARTH,

    ONE FULLY GOD, THROUGH THE FATHER'S SPIRIT IN HIS SOUL!!!

    AND ONE FULLY MAN, THROUGH THE SON'S SPIRIT AS FLESH,AND THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT AS HIS SOUL.

    MORE TO COME IN ORDER TO

    TELL YOU A MYSTERY REGARDING THE TWO NATURES OF JESUS,AND IT'S UP TO YOU TO BELIEVE IT OR NOT!!!

    IN ANOTHER POST!!!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #337258
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ Mar. 02 2013,12:39)

    Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 01 2013,07:01)
    [/quote]
    [quote=terraricca,Mar. 01 2013,07:01]


    Quote
    S
    SO TO YOU GOD ALMIGHTY HIS A MAN ,RIGHT

    Terraricca,

    It seems to me that you might have read all my post, but you only remember what you feel, and suits your mentality in a way that you completely twist all the meaning.

    THIS IS WHAT I SAID ABOUT GOD ALMIGHTY:

    John 14:9 Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also.

    So the above it is a clear declaration from Jesus that:

    Jesus is God Almighty visible.

    WHAT DOES IT MEAN THAT IF YOU SEE JESUS, YOU SEE GOD ALMIGHTY TO YOU??? CAN’T YOU GET IT INTO YOUR MIND THAT GOD IS A SPIRIT FROM  ETERNITY TO ETERNITY. IF JESUS, THE WORD, IS THE ONLY IMAGE GOD HAS, HOW CAN YOU DENY IT???

    the word is GOD ALMIGHTY IN A DIFFERENT FUNCTION WITHIN HIS SON IN A WAY THAT ALTHOUGH HE REMAINED A SPIRIT, HE ALSO POSSESSED A FLESH BODY WITHIN JESUS' SOUL AND FIRST HE WALKED ON EARTH, THEN HE GLORIFIED BOTH HIMSELF AND HIS SON, AND BECAME ONE ENTITY IN BOTH SPIRIT AND  FLESH WITHOUT LOSING HIS ORIGINAL STATE OF A SPIRIT.

    denying this you will call Jesus a LIAR.

    SO GOD ALMIGHTY IS A SPIRIT AS ALWAYS HAD BEEN,

    THAT IS THE FIRST ENTITY WHICH BELONG TO GOD ALMIGHTY.

    AND ALSO :GOD BOTH AS SPIRIT AND FLESH UNITED IN THE WORD, JESUS .

    THAT IS THE SECOND ENTITY WHICH BELONG TO GOD ALMIGHTY

    SO GOD ALMIGHTY, THROUGH GLORIFICATION,HAS TWO ENTITIES NOT ONE LIKE HE HAD, SPIRIT ONLY.THAT’S WHY THERE ARE TWO THRONES IN  HEAVEN, ONE FOR THE FATHER SPIRIT, INVISIBLE SEEN ONLY BY HIS SON THE WORD, AND ONE FOR JESUS, THE WORD MADE FLESH VISIBLE FOR ETERNITY,AND FOR ALL SPIRITS TO ADMIRE THE UNIQUE STATE GOD  ALMIGHTY ACHIEVED AND BECAME THE ONLY TRUE GOD.

    KEEP IN MIND THAT NO ONE CAN SEE THE FATHER NOT EVEN NOW!!! THE ONLY GOD THAT CAN BE SEEN IS JESUS, THE WORD!!!

    BUT THERE ARE STILL HIS ENEMIES, LIKE YOU AND JEHOVAH WITNESSES WHO DENIES THIS, AND THE FATHER IS WORKING IN ORDER TO MAKE THEM JESUS’ FOOTSTOOL!!!

    NOW READ AGAIN AND UNDERSTAND IN SIMPLE ENGLISH WHAT I SAID  ABOUT GOD ALMIGHTY AND DO NOT TWIST IT.

    DENYING HEREUNDER YOU CONFIRM THAT JESUS DIED FOR NOTHNG, AND GOD ALMIGHTY HAS FAILED IN ACHIEVING WHAT HE WANTED TO ACHIEVE THROUGH THE WORD , JESUS CHRIST.

    WHICH IS THAT HE BECAME THE GOD OF ALL FLESH THROUGH JESUS' BODY!!

    ONE ENTITY AS A SPIRIT, AND ANOTHER ENTITY AS BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH BUT IN JESUS WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT!  THE WORD!

    BE AWARE ALSO THAT GOD ALMIGHTY IS MORE POWERFUL IN JESUS. THE WORD. THEN AS THE FATHER SPIRIT ONLY!
    SINCE JESUS, THE WORD INHERITED ALL SO THE FATHER IS NOT FUNCTIONING AT ALL.

    BUT IN THE SAME TIME HE IS IN FULL FUNCTION IN HIS OTHER STATE, ENTITY,NATURE, OF BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH IN THE WORD, JESUS, THE ONLY TRUE GOD

    THE ABOVE IS THE THIRD ENTITY THAT I STATED ABOUT GOD ALMIGHTY.  IT SAYS CLEAR ENOUGH THAT GOD ALMIGHTY AS A SPIRIT, IS NOT AS POWERFUL AS HE IS IN JESUS NOW, AND HE WILL REMAIN SO TILL THE LAST DAY.

    YOU CANNOT SEE THIS SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU DENY THAT JESUS AS A PERSON,HAD TWO SEPARATE NATURES WHILE ON EARTH,

    ONE FULLY GOD, THROUGH THE FATHER'S SPIRIT IN HIS SOUL!!!

    AND ONE FULLY MAN, THROUGH THE SON'S SPIRIT AS FLESH,AND THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT AS HIS SOUL.

    MORE TO COME IN ORDER TO

    TELL YOU A MYSTERY REGARDING THE TWO NATURES OF JESUS,AND IT'S UP TO YOU TO BELIEVE IT OR NOT!!!

    IN ANOTHER POST!!!

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles


    Charles

    Jn 14:8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
    Jn 14:9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
    Jn 14:10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
    Jn 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.
    Jn 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

    those scriptures that I posted above are the scriptures that says ??? that Christ his God almighty ??? right at the least that is what I understand from your quote ,

    so looking with my good eye ,IT SEEMS THAT THEIR ARE THREE FACTORS INCLUDED IN WHAT JESUS SAYS 1) THE TIME SPEND WITH HIM ,,,2) THE WORKS HE AS DONE THROUGH THE BLESSINGS OF HIS FATHER GOD ALMIGHTY, ,,3) THE FAITH THAT BELIEVES IN HIM ,FOR WHAT HE SAYS HE HIS ,(BUT HE NEVER SAYS HE HIS IS FATHER )

    THE QUESTION OF PHILIP WAS MORE “OK JESUS I HAVE SEEN ALL ABOUT YOU ,NOW I WANT TO SEE WHO IS BEHIND YOU DOING ALL THOSE THINGS AND THAT HIS YOUR FATHER ,I WANT TO MEET HIM,,,,BUT THIS WAY IT WOULD ELIMINATE THE FAITH IN THE SON OF GOD THAT THE FATHER SEND ,,,,

    THE WORKS DONE TO THAT POINT BY CHRIST WOULD BE SUFFICIENT TO HAVE A FULL FAITH IN THE SON OF THE FATHER ,AND THE FATHER AS WELL FOR ALL THINGS WERE WRITTEN LONG AGO ,;AND THAT'S THE WAY WE CAN SEE GOD THE FATHER ,BECAUSE HE HIS SPIRIT NO MEN CAN SEE HIM AND LIVE,SO HIS SPOKEN PERSON (JESUS CHRIST HIS SON )SHOULD BE GOOD ENOUGH TO ALL WHO HAVE THE TRUE FAITH.

    #337268
    carmel
    Participant

    [quote=terraricca,Mar. 03 2013,07:56][/quote]

    Quote
    those scriptures that I posted above are the scriptures that says ??? that Christ his God almighty ??? right at the least that is what I understand from your quote ,

    Terraricca,

    NO, NOT EXACTLY!!!

    GOD ALMIGHTY IS A SPIRIT AND HE REMAINS A SPIRIT FOR ETERNITY!

    JESUS CHRIST IS GOD ALMIGHTY IN A DIFFERENT FUNCTION NOT AS A SPIRIT ONLY.

    HE IS BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH!!! OK???

    THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!!! IT IS CLEAR.

    THE WORD IS GOD ALMIGHTY IN A DIFFERENT FUNCTION.

    WHICH MEANS THAT INSTEAD ALL GOD'S FUNCTIONS AND POWERS REMAINED IN THE FATHER, LIKE WHEN HE CREATED ALL HIS SPIRITUAL CREATURES,

    THE FATHER ABIDED IN HIS SON, THE WORD, AND ALL GOD'S FUNCTIONS AND POWERS WERE GIVEN TO HIS SON IN ORDER TO CREATE OUR CARNAL CREATURES, SO THE SON, THE WORD CREATED OUR WORLD, BY THE POWER FROM THE FATHER THROGUH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

    SO THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS IN JESUS' SPIRIT THE MEDIATOR,

    AND THE FATHER'S SPIRIT WAS IN THE HOLY SPIRIT DURING CREATION OF OUR WORLD.

    SO THE GODHEAD CREATED ALL!!!

    THEN WHEN JESUS WAS BORN:

    THE SON'S SPIRIT BECAME FLESH,

    THE HOLY SPIRIT BECAME JESUS' SOUL,

    AND THE FATHER'S SPIRIT REMAINED AS SPIRIT, BUT IN JESUS' SOUL.

    THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD AS THE WORD MADE FLESH!!!

    JESUS CHRIST THE GODHEAD IN FLESH BODY!!!

    ALL IN HIM

    OK?

    ONLY THE FATHER KEPT HIS ORIGINAL GENUINE SPIRIT!!!

    WHILE BOTH THE SON'S SPIRIT, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT BECAME :

    THE FLESH BODY,AND THE SOUL OF JESUS RESPECTIVELY!!! OK?

    AND BOTH CAME FORTH FROM GOD!!!

    SO JESUS CHRIST IS GOD'S SUBSTANCE THROUGHOUT.

    HE HAD NOTHING OF THE SINFULL WORLD!!!

    I AM FROM ABOVE(HEAVEN)

    you are from beneath,HELL,

    you are from this world,

    I AM NOT FROM THIS WORLD

    Quote
    ,(BUT HE NEVER SAYS HE HIS IS FATHER )

    Terraricca,

    You didn't answer my question:

    SO I REPEAT IT:

    John 14:9 Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also.

    WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU:

    WHO SEE JESUS SEE THE FATHER ALSO???

    can someone see a person and in the same time see another person??? unless he is drunk, mad, or imagining?

    Can I look at you and also see myself unless you are a MIRROR

    OTHER STATEMENT WHICH I TOLD YOU ABOUT IS:

    THAT GOD HAD ONE ENTITIY BEFORE CREATION WHEN HE WAS IN HIS GLORY, BUT THROUGH JESUS HE HAS THREE:

    ONE AS A SPIRIT:  HIS ORIGINAL!!!

    ONE AS A SPIRITUAL FLESH BODY,AND ALSO SPIRIT.

    AND

    ONE AS THE MOST POWERFUL GOD EVEN MORE POWERFUL, AND MORE TRUE THAN HE WAS AS A SPIRIT.SINCE HE WAS INVISIBLE, AND  GAVE ALL TO HIS SON TO BE VISIBLE!!!

    CAN'T YOU SE IT THAT GOD ALMIGHTY IS ONLY VISIBLE AS JESUS CHRIST FOR ETERNITY?

    AND UNLESS HE IS VISIBLE HE WOULD NOT BE ACCEPTED,KNOWN, OR EVEN EXIST UNLESS IN THE MIND,FAITH???

    SO

    GOD HAD TO GLORIFY HIMSELF FOR HIS CREATURES SAKE IN ORDER TO BE ACCEPTED, KNOWN AND EXISTS IN THE TRUTH:

    THEREFORE HE BECAME MORE RICH THROUGHOUT.

    HE BECAME THE ONLY TRUE GOD BY THE WORD, JESUS CHRIST!!!

    DENYING THE ABOVE YOU WILL DECLARE THAT JESUS IS A

    LIAR

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles

    #337279
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ Mar. 03 2013,04:25)
    [quote=terraricca,Mar. 03 2013,07:56][/quote]

    Quote
    those scriptures that I posted above are the scriptures that says ??? that Christ his God almighty ??? right at the least that is what I understand from your quote ,

    Terraricca,

    NO, NOT EXACTLY!!!

    GOD ALMIGHTY IS A SPIRIT AND HE REMAINS A SPIRIT FOR ETERNITY!

    JESUS CHRIST IS GOD ALMIGHTY IN A DIFFERENT FUNCTION NOT AS A SPIRIT ONLY.

    HE IS BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH!!! OK???

    THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!!! IT IS CLEAR.

    THE WORD IS GOD ALMIGHTY IN A DIFFERENT FUNCTION.

    WHICH MEANS THAT INSTEAD ALL GOD'S FUNCTIONS AND POWERS REMAINED IN THE FATHER, LIKE WHEN HE CREATED ALL HIS SPIRITUAL CREATURES,

    THE FATHER ABIDED IN HIS SON, THE WORD, AND ALL GOD'S FUNCTIONS AND POWERS WERE GIVEN TO HIS SON IN ORDER TO CREATE OUR CARNAL CREATURES, SO THE SON, THE WORD CREATED OUR WORLD, BY THE POWER FROM THE FATHER THROGUH THE HOLY SPIRIT.

    SO THE HOLY SPIRIT WAS IN JESUS' SPIRIT THE MEDIATOR,

    AND THE FATHER'S SPIRIT WAS IN THE HOLY SPIRIT DURING CREATION OF OUR WORLD.

    SO THE GODHEAD CREATED ALL!!!

    THEN WHEN JESUS WAS BORN:

    THE SON'S SPIRIT BECAME FLESH,

    THE HOLY SPIRIT BECAME JESUS' SOUL,

    AND THE FATHER'S SPIRIT REMAINED AS SPIRIT, BUT IN JESUS' SOUL.

    THE FULLNESS OF THE GODHEAD AS THE WORD MADE FLESH!!!

    JESUS CHRIST THE GODHEAD IN FLESH BODY!!!

    ALL IN HIM

    OK?

    ONLY THE FATHER KEPT HIS ORIGINAL GENUINE SPIRIT!!!

    WHILE BOTH THE SON'S SPIRIT, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT BECAME :

    THE FLESH BODY,AND THE SOUL OF JESUS RESPECTIVELY!!! OK?

    AND BOTH CAME FORTH FROM GOD!!!

    SO JESUS CHRIST IS GOD'S SUBSTANCE THROUGHOUT.

    HE HAD NOTHING OF THE SINFULL WORLD!!!

    I AM FROM ABOVE(HEAVEN)

    you are from beneath,HELL,

    you are from this world,

    I AM NOT FROM THIS WORLD

    Quote
    ,(BUT HE NEVER SAYS HE HIS IS FATHER )

    Terraricca,

    You didn't answer my question:

    SO I REPEAT IT:

    John 14:9 Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also.

    WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU:

    WHO SEE JESUS SEE THE FATHER ALSO???

    can someone see a person and in the same time see another person??? unless he is drunk, mad, or imagining?

    Can I look at you and also see myself unless you are a MIRROR

    OTHER STATEMENT WHICH I TOLD YOU ABOUT IS:

    THAT GOD HAD ONE ENTITIY BEFORE CREATION WHEN HE WAS IN HIS GLORY, BUT THROUGH JESUS HE HAS THREE:

    ONE AS A SPIRIT:  HIS ORIGINAL!!!

    ONE AS A SPIRITUAL FLESH BODY,AND ALSO SPIRIT.

    AND

    ONE AS THE MOST POWERFUL GOD EVEN MORE POWERFUL, AND MORE TRUE THAN HE WAS AS A SPIRIT.SINCE HE WAS INVISIBLE, AND  GAVE ALL TO HIS SON TO BE VISIBLE!!!

    CAN'T YOU SE IT THAT GOD ALMIGHTY IS ONLY VISIBLE AS JESUS CHRIST FOR ETERNITY?

    AND UNLESS HE IS VISIBLE HE WOULD NOT BE ACCEPTED,KNOWN, OR EVEN EXIST UNLESS IN THE MIND,FAITH???

    SO

    GOD HAD TO GLORIFY HIMSELF FOR HIS CREATURES SAKE IN ORDER TO BE ACCEPTED, KNOWN AND EXISTS IN THE TRUTH:

    THEREFORE HE BECAME MORE RICH THROUGHOUT.

    HE BECAME THE ONLY TRUE GOD BY THE WORD, JESUS CHRIST!!!

    DENYING THE ABOVE YOU WILL DECLARE THAT JESUS IS A

    LIAR

    Peace and love in Jesus

    Charles


    charles

    I have answered you but you have to start thinking and understand what I am saying to you ,

    and you should know that by using a couple parts of a few verses does not make your reasoning true to scriptures,

    and I can tell you that you are wrong in thinking God needs to glorify him for men ,God does not need anything that men as or anyone else,

    Christ is his first creation through whom he made all other things ,Christ his the son and the WORD of God ,

    God his a spirit being a complete being ,Christ his a spirit being a complete being separated from the father ,

    this is solid truth

    #337294
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 28 2013,08:59)

    Quote (jammin @ Feb. 26 2013,20:27)
    col 1.15 did not say God created but the firstborn of all creation. those words are not the same.

    rev 3.14 says beginning of the creation of God and not created by God. it has a different meaning boy.


    jammin,

    Who do you think was the first being God ever created?  One of His angels?  I'm just asking for you opinion.

    Oh, and please answer this question I keep asking (because I couldn't tell from the other post if you answered it):

    jammin, do you agree with me that ONLY the MOST HIGH God should get the capital “G”?  YES or NO?


    i already answered your question
    the capital G should be given to the true God, the most high God and not god.

    God is not god.

    the father is God by nature and not god.
    the son is also God by nature and not god. therefore the most high God applicable to both the father and the son.
    the father is all powerful bec he is God
    the son is also all powerful bec his nature is God.

    now if you give me a verse that christ says that the father is greater than, no doubt about it. that is true. but when it comes to nature, they are both God. and as a God, you are all powerful, all knowing, you are everywhere, you do not change etc.
    that is the nature of God mike.

    but you as human you are not all poweful, not all knowing, not everywhere and you are limited bec you are HUMAN just like your father. you are both limited.
    do you understand that boy?

    and christ became like us. that is what paul said phil 2.6

    study hard boy and accept the truth

    #337295
    jammin
    Participant

    now for the creation. pls read gen 1
    you can find it there

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